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Poll
Question: Which is used?
English - 70 (39.3%)
Greek - 32 (18%)
Church Slavonic - 22 (12.4%)
Ukrainian - 9 (5.1%)
Serbian - 6 (3.4%)
Bulgarian - 1 (0.6%)
Romanian - 6 (3.4%)
Russian - 3 (1.7%)
Arab - 10 (5.6%)
Rusyn/Lemko - 0 (0%)
Latin - 2 (1.1%)
Spanish - 1 (0.6%)
Albanian - 0 (0%)
Other - 16 (9%)
Total Voters: 96

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Author Topic: Liturgical languages in your Churches  (Read 16262 times) Average Rating: 0
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stashko
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« Reply #45 on: February 11, 2009, 01:56:44 PM »

Brother all the Our Father Prayers Are Beautiful the staro slovenski.As well the modern russian one and the ukrainian one..they all seem to be similar and understandable and readable ......ill try to post the serbian one as soon as i find it.....
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ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.
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« Reply #46 on: February 11, 2009, 02:14:39 PM »

Here one in latinica.....Oce nas koji si na nebesima, da se sveti ime Tvoje, da dodje carstvo Tvoje, da bude volja Tvoja i na zemlji kao na nebu; hleb nas nasusni daj nam danas; i oprosti nam dugove nase kao sto i mi oprastamo duznicima svojim, i ne uvedi nas u iskusenje. nego izbavi nas od zla.Amin

Here's another in cirilica....Оче наш
Оче наш који си на небесима,
да се свти име Твоје,
да доће царство Твоје,
да буде воља Твоја, како на небу, тако и на земљи.
Хлеб наш насушни дај нам данас;
И опрости нам дугове наше
као што смо и ми опростили дужницима својим.
И не уведи нас у искушење,
него нас избави од Злога. 
Амин

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« Reply #47 on: February 11, 2009, 06:14:45 PM »

From what I have been told it is very different and complex. It is no easy task to master Byzantine Greek. My good Greek-American friend speaks modern Greek and is quite fluent. He grew up in the Greek Orthodox church, singing in the choir. He can sing all of the hymns in Byzantine Greek and he also can recite many of the prayers but he hasn't a clue about their meaning. He now attends an OCA parish which uses English and has been rediscovering the meaning of many of the hymns and prayers of the Orthodox Church.

It does take some specialized education to get many of the words, but after studying Ancient, Koine, Patristic, and Modern Greek I can tell you that there are many words which haven't changed...

This same friend shared with me that Byzantine Greek is the official language spoken by Ecumenical Patriarch. Does anyone know if this is the language he speaks in when he comes to the United States to visit his flock?

Yikes.  No.  The Patriarch speaks "Katharevousa" when possible, which is a high-class Modern Greek.  When speaking about Liturgical concepts, or when quoting the Fathers, he uses the respective Greek languages that the references were written in.

Koine was only used for the writings of the scripture and the early writings of the church (Apostolic Fathers). But after that time period Byzantine Greek was the language used for Patristics, liturgics, and hymnography.

Eh, that's too simplistic an analysis of the progression; Koine was "Greek" for centuries.  "Byzantine" Greek (I clarify below) was an attempt by the upper-classes of Imperial Society, and Theologians alike, to bring the language back to Ancient Greek, reintroducing words and forms that had died beforehand.  But it wasn't necessarily "lingua franca" of its time - Koine was probably closer to it.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/87308/Byzantine-Greek-language

Byzantine Greek
an archaic style of Greek that served as the language of administration and of most writing during the period of the Byzantine, or Eastern Roman, Empire until the fall of Constantinople to the Turks in 1453. During the Byzantine period the spoken language continued to develop without the archaizing tendencies of the written language. Byzantine Greek is still the liturgical language of the Greek Orthodox church.

We don't call it "Byzantine Greek;" many of us call it "Patristic Greek," while some others have less appropriate terms for it.

Thank you for answering my questions and for providing more information about the language usages of the Greek Orthodox Church Cleveland. So from what I have been told, the reason Koine Greek was developed was so that large populations of non-Greeks could learn the language in order to unite people who had been conquered by the Greeks. Koine is a much simpler form of the language than the more ancient forms of Greek. Are these thoughts correct?
But during the Eastern Roman Empire, the scholars and theologians wanted to return to a more ancient usage of the language so deep theological concepts could be described with more accuracy and because the language allowed for more beauty and poetics in the liturgics?

The fellow in my church who described Patristic Greek as complex was quite fluent in Hebrew and Koine but was trying to learn Patristic Greek on his own so that he could read the writings of the Fathers in the original language. He does not want to miss the nuances of the way a word is used. He is originally of Anglican background, like Fr. Pat Reardon, and my sense is, after meeting Fr. Pat last fall and then speaking to my fellow parishioner, these former Anglicans are very precise in their studies of the Bible and Patristics.
He gave me an example of how a word from a Greek Orthodox consecration service book had been translated from the Patristic Greek word for "tabernacle" to "abode" (modern English). It is too bad translations are not more accurate but I realize Greek is an ancient language which has many words to explain complex theological concepts. I just wish highly refined translations were more readily available to those of us who are interested. Maybe with a few more Anglican scholarly converts, this may happen in the future.   Smiley  A team of Greek scholars and English scholars might be the right combination to have more accurate and poetic translations.
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« Reply #48 on: February 11, 2009, 06:56:21 PM »

So from what I have been told, the reason Koine Greek was developed was so that large populations of non-Greeks could learn the language in order to unite people who had been conquered by the Greeks. Koine is a much simpler form of the language than the more ancient forms of Greek. Are these thoughts correct?

It may have been a thoughtful simplification of the language to make it more easily learned, but it probably was instead a steady simplification of Greek as more and more people learned the language, just as languages such as English have in many ways simplified forms as they have been disseminated in wider spheres of population.

But during the Eastern Roman Empire, the scholars and theologians wanted to return to a more ancient usage of the language so deep theological concepts could be described with more accuracy and because the language allowed for more beauty and poetics in the liturgics?

From what I've read, yes.

The fellow in my church who described Patristic Greek as complex was quite fluent in Hebrew and Koine but was trying to learn Patristic Greek on his own so that he could read the writings of the Fathers in the original language. He does not want to miss the nuances of the way a word is used. He is originally of Anglican background, like Fr. Pat Reardon, and my sense is, after meeting Fr. Pat last fall and then speaking to my fellow parishioner, these former Anglicans are very precise in their studies of the Bible and Patristics.

He gave me an example of how a word from a Greek Orthodox consecration service book had been translated from the Patristic Greek word for "tabernacle" to "abode" (modern English). It is too bad translations are not more accurate but I realize Greek is an ancient language which has many words to explain complex theological concepts. I just wish highly refined translations were more readily available to those of us who are interested. Maybe with a few more Anglican scholarly converts, this may happen in the future.   Smiley  A team of Greek scholars and English scholars might be the right combination to have more accurate and poetic translations. 

I think you're right - getting together a diverse group of scholars and theologian-scholars would do the trick; one person attempting the translation of hundreds of hymns, texts, treatises and the like is a bit ridiculous.
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« Reply #49 on: February 11, 2009, 07:02:56 PM »

Brother all the Our Father Prayers Are Beautiful the staro slovenski.As well the modern russian one and the ukrainian one..they all seem to be similar and understandable and readable ......ill try to post the serbian one as soon as i find it.....

I know, brate, I am not arguing that the Old Church Slavonic sounds beautiful. I am just puzzled, why do Russians reject the Russian language in church. It is as beautiful as any other language. It is just strange to me, how can a modern (and quite beautiful, and widely used) language be considered "improper" for use in liturgy.
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« Reply #50 on: February 11, 2009, 07:18:45 PM »


Brother...
Father Miroslav told me once that there was no Bad word's in it ..it was specially set aside For the worship of God plus it was a related language to all the Slavic tongues easy to learn by attending regularly....
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« Reply #51 on: February 11, 2009, 11:15:18 PM »

Thank you, brother. That's simple modern Russian. Again, I really, really fail to understand why our Russian brothers and sisters do not use their real, live, beautiful modern vernacular Russian language in church. Let Mikhail Smirnov or Galina Volga or other Russians on this site correct me if I am wrong, but it is my understanding that in a Russian church, only the sermon will be read in Russian; everything else is in the Old Church Slavonic, and, while it sometimes sounds kinda interesting and "cool," it's a DEAD language that no one speaks. I just can't imagine speaking and thinking one language and then going down on my knees before the Holy Icons and pray in a different language, and a dead one at that...

I completely agree with your observation and conclusion, Heorhij.

Modern vernacular Russian is used in a couple of parishes in Moscow. St. Nicholas Cathedral (OCA) in Washington, DC has (2) Sunday Liturgies. The earlier one is celebrated in English. The later one mostly has Old Slavonic, but practices reading in of Epistle and Gospel in Russian. Some other prayers also may be said / sang in Russian. As far as I understand, different prayers were said in Russian on different Sundays.

Also, some parishes of Sourozh Diocese in UK, which are now a part of the Patriarchal Exarchate for Orthodox Parishes of Russian Tradition in Western Europe (EP) also use vernacular Russian. Unfortunately, I don't know how many parishes and what are the percentage and frequency of services in Russian.
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« Reply #52 on: February 14, 2009, 10:25:41 AM »

In my small Antiochian parish, our priest will usually pause to allow the repetition of the Lord's Prayer by others in their own language if they choose to do so. It happens only occasionally. We have heard Arabic and Chinese. Our Lord Have Mercys (when in groups of 3 or more) may also include Greek and Arabic. Whenever I have to do 40 LHMs, I actually find counting easier by switching languages and will occasionally include French as well.

I also appreciate the little bits of Greek and Arabic because the Greek reminds me of the timelessness of our faith, and the Arabic reminds me of the global extent of our faith.

Jim
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« Reply #53 on: April 18, 2009, 11:18:55 PM »

On today's Liturgy we had fragments (Paschal troparion and Gospel mainly) in: Church Slavonic, Belarusian, Russian, Ukrainian, Polish, Greek, Latin, Romanian and Georgian (!). I guess it was Romanian because I couldn't understand a single world from the troparion and my father is sure that once it was sung in Georgian because he's been to Georgia two times and it sounded similar.

Babel tower Smiley
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« Reply #54 on: April 19, 2009, 10:24:20 AM »

At the Coptic Orthodox Church of the Four Living Creatures mission to Australians here in Queensland Abouna James prays almost entirely in English. We have some Coptic at times for those who love it and a little Greek as all the Churches do with a splattering of Arabic if Egyptians are present but we have also had liturgies entirely in English thanks to God.

By the way, why aren't Coptic and Geez on your list? Also, the language is called "Arabic" not "Arab" Wink
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« Reply #55 on: April 19, 2009, 10:28:44 AM »

At the Coptic Orthodox Church of the Four Living Creatures mission to Australians here in Queensland Abouna James prays almost entirely in English. We have some Coptic at times for those who love it and a little Greek as all the Churches do with a splattering of Arabic if Egyptians are present but we have also had liturgies entirely in English thanks to God.

By the way, why aren't Coptic and Geez on your list? Also, the language is called "Arabic" not "Arab" Wink

At the Antiochian parish I used to attend, Orthros and Vespers were 50-50 English and Arabic, Divine Liturgy 99% English (we sang the Trisagion in Arabic, and even called it Quduson, but that was it). In my current OCA parish, 100% English, except of course for the Paschal greetings and troparia (English, Arabic, Greek, Slavonic, Ukrainian, Romanian, and Swahili).

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« Reply #56 on: April 19, 2009, 11:00:20 AM »

Would love to hear some Swahili! Have you Kenyans in your Church?

We not infrequently say the Trisagion in Greek. Personally I often do so in my own prayers as I simply find it easier to pronounce in Greek than in English (as odd as that may seem to some).
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« Reply #57 on: April 19, 2009, 11:08:52 AM »

Would love to hear some Swahili! Have you Kenyans in your Church?

Yes. Kristu amefufuka! Kweli amefufuka! Lord have mercy is Bwana udumia (oo-doo-mee-ah)

We sang the troparion last night in Swahili, but since I had it in front of my face on the music stand, I regret that I did not memorize it. On top of the Ukrainian and Romanian, neither of which I had ever seen, it was too much to commit to memory.

المسيح قام من بين الأموات
و وطئ الموت بالموت
و وهب الحياة
للذين في القبور
Al-Masīh qām min baīni'l-amwāt
Wa wati’ al-mawt bi'l-mawt
Wa wahab al-hayāt
Lil-ladhīna fī'l-qubūr!




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« Reply #58 on: April 19, 2009, 11:27:51 AM »

You do well to write Arabic!

Liturgy must sound so tranquil and tender in Swahili.
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« Reply #59 on: April 19, 2009, 12:37:05 PM »

By the way, why aren't Coptic and Geez on your list? Also, the language is called "Arabic" not "Arab" Wink

I do not much about Oriental Orthodox Churches and their languages and I set this poll mainly for EOs. I regret it now and I'd be grateful if mods added them to the list.

I used to thing that Arab is an adjective describing language.

Taking an advance I refreshed the topic: what language does ACROD use? Lemko-Rusyn, Ukrainian, Church-Slavonic, English?

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« Reply #60 on: April 19, 2009, 08:49:55 PM »

We use Greek, English, Arabic and Coptic in every mass.
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« Reply #61 on: April 19, 2009, 08:54:59 PM »


Taking an advance I refreshed the topic: what language does ACROD use? Lemko-Rusyn, Ukrainian, Church-Slavonic, English?



ACROD uses English and Church Slavonic
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« Reply #62 on: June 02, 2009, 11:38:51 PM »

But I'm interested in one more thing: which jurisdiction use Spanish?


GOA and OCA have a couple of Spanish language missions each. A parish of UOC-USA in Dover, Florida uses a lot of Spanish together with English and Ukrainian. Also, some other parishes of GOA, OCA, AOA, and possibly ROCOR serve in Spanish together with other languages.
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« Reply #63 on: June 05, 2009, 10:35:28 PM »

My current parish, OCA, uses 100% English.

My former parish, also OCA, uses 100% English. However, they now have a Russian mission. Twice a month they'll do a separate liturgy for the Russian population, but I don't know if it's in Slavonic or in Russian.
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« Reply #64 on: June 05, 2009, 11:27:07 PM »

My current parish, OCA, uses 100% English.

My former parish, also OCA, uses 100% English. However, they now have a Russian mission. Twice a month they'll do a separate liturgy for the Russian population, but I don't know if it's in Slavonic or in Russian.

I would go out on a limb and reckon it is Church Slavonic perhaps with the homily preached in Russian.
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« Reply #65 on: June 06, 2009, 03:35:51 AM »


Taking an advance I refreshed the topic: what language does ACROD use? Lemko-Rusyn, Ukrainian, Church-Slavonic, English?



ACROD uses English and Church Slavonic

So little Slavonic that one has to pay really close attention to catch it (at least in our parish).
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« Reply #66 on: June 07, 2009, 12:13:42 AM »

My current parish, OCA, uses 100% English.

My former parish, also OCA, uses 100% English. However, they now have a Russian mission. Twice a month they'll do a separate liturgy for the Russian population, but I don't know if it's in Slavonic or in Russian.

I would go out on a limb and reckon it is Church Slavonic perhaps with the homily preached in Russian.

You're probably right.
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« Reply #67 on: August 25, 2009, 10:29:14 AM »

Liturgy in my parish is mostly English. Occasionally some Greeks join in the celebration, so our deacons intones the prayers in English and the Greek on the cantor's stand would reply in Greek (they have very beautiful voices by the way  Smiley ). The Epistle is read twice, first in Tagalog, then in Greek. Same also for the Gospel. The Homily is in Tagalog. Most hymns are sung in English, except when a Greek comes over to the cantor stand then everything goes Greek..
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« Reply #68 on: August 25, 2009, 02:40:27 PM »

I attend a parish in Bergamo, Italy. The main language is Church Slavonic, but the first time I attended in 2008 at Pascha they were celebrating in Italian, as they also do on the main feasts, but the answers such as "Gospodi pomiluj" are sung in Slavonic. The Creed is always in Church Slavonic too. The Our Father is sung twice, in Italian and in Church Slavonic on the great feasts. For this they use a non-traditional version of the Our Father - or better, a more literal translation then the one in use in the Roman Catholic Church, saying "Dacci oggi il nostro pane necessario" (lit. "Give us today our necessary bread") where the RCs use "Dacci oggi il nostro pane quotidiano" ("Give us today our daily bread").
Anyway, the priest sings the Gospel in Italian, while the Epistle is on occasion in Church Slavonic or in Italian.

In Christ,   Alex
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« Reply #69 on: August 25, 2009, 08:46:07 PM »

For the curious:

At one parish I know: almost 100% english.  Whether it's modern or not depends on where they get their translation from - the parish's jurisdiction uses modern English in its translation, but the parish uses HTM's menaion, some music from St. Anthony's (which also seems to use HTM's translation) and some from the Antiochians/Boston Byzantine Choir.  So Orthros and Vespers there mixes traditional and modern English. 

A few other places I've been to:

- at a local GOA parish, Orthros for Sunday plus Apodosis of the Dormition was mostly in Greek, with the Gospel in English (previously, I believe there was about 75% Greek/25% English at Orthros, including some of the Kathimsa, Expaostilaria, etc. from Saint Gregory Palamas Monastery's translation).   Divine Liturgy goes back and forth between Greek and English, mostly Greek.  The Akathist, as I recall, mixed English and Greek 50/50.  Holy Friday Orthros was also about 50/50.   

- the GOA parish in Honolulu uses mostly English.

- a GOA parish I went to in a certain part of the NE US made me feel that I was teleported back to Greece - even the homily was in Greek, without any English!!!  There were even a few young men at the kilros, and the four men up there split up Orthros and Divine Liturgy evenly.   

- Monastery of Saint Neilos of Calabria, Italo-Greek Catholic Church: some Italian, but the parts of Orthros that required prosomia were in Greek.  As I recall, Divine Liturgy mixed Italian and Greek.   [this is just outside Rome, and was founded by the Italo-Greek Saint Neilos around 1000AD.  He's commemorated in both the Orthodox and Catholic Churches]
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« Reply #70 on: August 25, 2009, 10:24:15 PM »

Finnish, with some Swedish and Russian (or is it Church Slavonic, how would I know?) added for spice.

Ask Russians. The language they really use when they talk to their wives, husbands, children, colleagues - that's Russian. The language they do not use but have a strange reverence to, because some 1300 years ago two Greeks made it up based on what they thought was the language of Southern Slavs whom they visited - that's Church Slavonic.Smiley))

And if you don't have any Russians in your parish who could answer - then why in the world is it not all Finnish? Smiley)))
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« Reply #71 on: August 25, 2009, 10:25:58 PM »

I attend a parish in Bergamo, Italy. The main language is Church Slavonic,

WHY?HuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuh??

In ITALY, for Pete's sake...
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« Reply #72 on: August 25, 2009, 10:27:04 PM »

So little Slavonic that one has to pay really close attention to catch it (at least in our parish).

Why keep it?
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« Reply #73 on: August 30, 2009, 01:48:39 PM »

Three languages are used at the synagogue I attend:

Torah, Prophets & Psalms chanted in Hebrew

Gospels & Epistles chanted in Aramaic (Eastern pronunciation of the Peshitta)

English for the rest.
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« Reply #74 on: August 30, 2009, 02:37:50 PM »

And if you don't have any Russians in your parish who could answer - then why in the world is it not all Finnish? Smiley)))

I don't know about Robert's parish but at least according to my limited experience services in Finland are normally entirely in Finnish. If the Church Slavonic is used that's because of immigrants and not because Finnish Church would like to to preserve Church Slavonic.
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« Reply #75 on: August 30, 2009, 02:43:15 PM »

I attend a parish in Bergamo, Italy. The main language is Church Slavonic,

WHY?HuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuh??

In ITALY, for Pete's sake...


Because it's a community founded BY Russian immigrants FOR Russian immigrants. And anyway, I love Church Slavonic, I find it harmonious in the tones used at the DL. As far as I know, 90% of the members of that congregation could be Russians. The remaining are the Reader (who is Italian), one of the priests of the community (who is Italian) and some of convertion as I (most of them are just husbands/wives of the Russian members).
In Italy the nearest community I know using Italian only belongs to the "Chiesa Ortodossa Italiana", which is not in communion with the four Patriarchates and with Moscow; also, they are some 3 hours by car away from me, in the city of Ravenna. Since I don't love schismatics, and it's useless to dedicate all weeks an entire day of travel to go to the DL, the choice of this Russian Church was automatical (and I consider this a true fortune).

In Christ,    Alex

PS: Do you maybe have some problems with traditional languages? Do you prefer the vernacular over the great languages of tradition (Greek, Slavonic and Latin)? As for me, I love the ancient languages better - but I'm a student in linguistics, which makes everything a little bit different ;-)
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« Reply #76 on: December 08, 2009, 10:37:22 AM »

Finnish, with some Swedish and Russian (or is it Church Slavonic, how would I know?) added for spice.

Ask Russians. The language they really use when they talk to their wives, husbands, children, colleagues - that's Russian. The language they do not use but have a strange reverence to, because some 1300 years ago two Greeks made it up based on what they thought was the language of Southern Slavs whom they visited - that's Church Slavonic.Smiley))

And if you don't have any Russians in your parish who could answer - then why in the world is it not all Finnish? Smiley)))


Some places in Finland they actually use Russian and not Slavonic. Especially in the south and the south east quite a high percentage of the church goers are nowadays Russian speakers. That's why Slavonic or Russian is used for parts of the service, and sometimes there are all-Slavonic or all-Russian services. In Helsinki, the Holy Trinity church has everything in Slavonic (ie no Finnish is normally used). The Holy Trinity church and some other parishes in large cities use Slavonic also because of tradition, not just because of immigrants, because many parishes in big cities in southern and western Finland used to be predominantly Russian, but most places in Finland, where the parishes have traditionally been Finnish speaking, Slavonic and Russian is used because or immigrants. Also Holy Trinity is nowadays mostly immigrants.
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« Reply #77 on: December 08, 2009, 11:31:46 AM »

At my Antiochian parish, we use about 98% English, with a few elements (some troparia, the Trisagion, etc) done in Arabic and English. During the special Holy Week services there is a lot more Arabic, closer to half and half.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2009, 11:32:08 AM by bogdan » Logged
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« Reply #78 on: December 08, 2009, 11:34:20 AM »

I attend a parish in Bergamo, Italy. The main language is Church Slavonic,

WHY?HuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuh??

In ITALY, for Pete's sake...


Because it's a community founded BY Russian immigrants FOR Russian immigrants. And anyway, I love Church Slavonic, I find it harmonious in the tones used at the DL. As far as I know, 90% of the members of that congregation could be Russians. The remaining are the Reader (who is Italian), one of the priests of the community (who is Italian) and some of convertion as I (most of them are just husbands/wives of the Russian members).
In Italy the nearest community I know using Italian only belongs to the "Chiesa Ortodossa Italiana", which is not in communion with the four Patriarchates and with Moscow; also, they are some 3 hours by car away from me, in the city of Ravenna. Since I don't love schismatics, and it's useless to dedicate all weeks an entire day of travel to go to the DL, the choice of this Russian Church was automatical (and I consider this a true fortune).

In Christ,    Alex

PS: Do you maybe have some problems with traditional languages? Do you prefer the vernacular over the great languages of tradition (Greek, Slavonic and Latin)? As for me, I love the ancient languages better - but I'm a student in linguistics, which makes everything a little bit different ;-)


It's a Ukrainian thing.

Ukrainians were wrongly banned from using their language, so there is overreaction to Church Slavonic, which Ukrainocentrics/Ukrainophiles see as a Russian thing, although the Russians adopted the recension developed in Ukraine (hence why ge is pronounced "ghe," no devoicing of final stops, no sluring of vowels, etc.).

The Ruthenians/Rusyns use their own recension, cutting off being Ukrainized, which of course draws the ire of Ukrainocentrists.

There are Ukrainians who prefer the Slavonic, even those who have submitted to the Vatican.
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« Reply #79 on: December 08, 2009, 11:35:02 AM »

At my Antiochian parish, we use about 98% English, with a few elements (some troparia, the Trisagion, etc) done in Arabic and English. During the special Holy Week services there is a lot more Arabic, closer to half and half.
Baumstark's Law at work.
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« Reply #80 on: December 08, 2009, 11:46:28 AM »

I attend a parish in Bergamo, Italy. The main language is Church Slavonic,

WHY?HuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuh??

In ITALY, for Pete's sake...


Perhaps because there are Russians, Ukrainians, Serbs, Bulgarians, Macedonians (and maybe a Croat or Pole or Czech or Slovak or two) and Church Slavonic is the neutral, common heritage.
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« Reply #81 on: December 08, 2009, 12:02:30 PM »

In my parish services are in Church Slavonic.
But once when we had a guest from OCA (a priest) it was partly in English... I live next to Tibeth, Afghanistan and Chinese border and it was extremely exotic here....
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« Reply #82 on: December 08, 2009, 02:36:09 PM »

In my parish, it's mostly in English, with some oft-repeated responses in Greek.  We also do "Lord have mercy" in the Memorial in a variety of languages (this also holds for the Litany of Fervent Supplication at Vespers.  And, come Pascha, we routinely do the greeting and response in  Greek, Arabic, Romanian, and Slavonic, as well as English.
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« Reply #83 on: December 08, 2009, 04:11:14 PM »

Here's how it was for the parishes I attended:

OCA
A mostly "Russian" church (the priest was also Russian) but was chanted mostly in English. The rest was in Church Slavonic (I guess? I can't tell the difference between it and Russian). The readings are all in English, the homily is spoken first in English, then in Russian. I think the priest just gives a summary of the day's hagiography for brevity's sake. The laity was half Slavic, half definitely-not-Slavic. I think there are even some Ethiopians there.

GOA
Mostly English. One thing I can specifically point out is that the litanies are chanted in English and responded in Greek. A lot of the hymns are Greek. The Creed and the Our Father are recited in English first, then Greek while the Gospel is chanted first in Greek and then in English. The homily is completely in English. Since I taught myself a bit of koine Greek I thought following the Greek portion of the Divine Liturgy handbook would be easy, but the pronunciation they use is completely different from what I'm  used to. I was surprised by the lack of a "beginning h" sound (agios vs. hagios), the pronunciation of "eta" as a "short i" and "ypsilon" vs. "upsilon." Also all the diphthongs are different (kay vs. kye).

Antiochian
100% English. Arabs are actually a minority in this parish. And *gasp* a priest who shaves!

There are more churches where I live, including a ROCOR parish that is 100% Slavonic, an OCA parish that uses English, Greek and Spanish, another Antiochian parish that uses some Arabic, and a Serbian parish. Don't know the language of that last one.
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« Reply #84 on: December 08, 2009, 08:17:30 PM »

Wow, I am really impressed at the diversity of languages used during liturgy represented here by our forum community! Glory be to God!  Smiley
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« Reply #85 on: December 08, 2009, 10:26:48 PM »

Latin
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« Reply #86 on: May 20, 2010, 07:05:49 AM »

In my parish in Warsaw there is everything in Ukrainian... (Liturgy, sermon etc) it's pretty hard for me becouse I don't know Ukrainian hehe
Here in Bulgaria in Sofia the Servis is in Church Slavonic but in Burgas is in Bulgarian. It was funny in Belgrade becouse  in spite of Liturgy was in Church Slavonic sermon was preached in three languages - Rusyn, Ukrainian and Serbian. (All of these cases are from Bizantyne Catholic churches).
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« Reply #87 on: May 21, 2010, 03:44:49 PM »

I wonder how much logistics and inertia influence the use of a particular language. By logistics I mean the existence of service books, including musical notations, say in Church Slavonic, not-modern-Arabic, or not-modern-Greek . These books are available everywhere but their counterparts in the vernacular are rare, incomplete and not always available with musical notations. "Inertia" could include a large number of chanters/readers who are trained in the older language, a large number of congregants who are used to hearing the chants/hymns in the old language, and the general human tendency to resist change.
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