Author Topic: Should the Hierarchs under Islam Speak out More?  (Read 1049 times)

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Offline ialmisry

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Should the Hierarchs under Islam Speak out More?
« on: January 31, 2009, 10:43:02 AM »
Just came across this, a WSJ review of the EP's book, quoted by one of our latest communicants, Ron Dreher:
Quote
On first reading, this exercise in fiddling while the new Rome burns seems pathetic, presenting a picture of a church leader so intimidated by his country's Islamic majority that he cannot speak up for his dwindling flock even as its members are murdered at his doorstep. Bartholomew's book presents an eerie mirror image of the concerns of aging, culturally exhausted, post-Christian Western Europe, happy to blather on at conferences about carbon emissions and diversity but unwilling to confront its own demographic crisis in the face of youthful, rapidly growing and culturally antagonistic Muslim populations. The suicide of the West meets the homicide of the East.
I told a Greek priest friend weeks ago that the Patriarch's book struck me as mostly a plea to make Europe wake up and come to his rescue by bringing Turkey into the EU -- which would be culturally suicidal for Europe. Apparently I'm not the only one who thinks so. If you want to encounter the mystery of Orthodoxy, by James Payton's book, or even better, try Kyriacos Markides' un-put-downable "The Mountain of Silence."
http://blog.beliefnet.com/crunchycon/2008/01/whistling-past-the-orthodox-gr.html#more

Any thoughts?
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Offline ozgeorge

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Re: Should the Hierarchs under Islam Speak out More?
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2009, 12:34:10 PM »
Any thoughts?
Yep. This is politics, not Faith.
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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Should the Hierarchs under Islam Speak out More?
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2009, 02:46:56 PM »
Yep. This is politics, not Faith.
Who will determine what belongs to the sphere of politics and what to the sphere of faith?

Turks always say that the Patriarchate at Phanar is a more political institution working for Greece than a religious one. They even deny His all holiness Bartholomew I the title "Ecumenical Patriarch", asserting that this title has political implications. Many Turks even think that His all holiness had no right to hold a meeting and excommunicate the former patriarch of Jerusalem, who had been accused on embezzlement.
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Offline ozgeorge

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Re: Should the Hierarchs under Islam Speak out More?
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2009, 02:51:09 PM »
Who will determine what belongs to the sphere of politics and what to the sphere of faith?
You will by what you just typed:

Turks always say that the Patriarchate at Phanar is a more political institution working for Greece than a religious one. They even deny His all holiness Bartholomew I the title "Ecumenical Patriarch", asserting that this title has political implications. Many Turks even think that His all holiness had no right to hold a meeting and excommunicate the former patriarch of Jerusalem, who had been accused on embezzlement.
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Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: Should the Hierarchs under Islam Speak out More?
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2009, 02:57:49 PM »
Yep. This is politics, not Faith.
Who will determine what belongs to the sphere of politics and what to the sphere of faith?

Turks always say that the Patriarchate at Phanar is a more political institution working for Greece than a religious one. They even deny His all holiness Bartholomew I the title "Ecumenical Patriarch", asserting that this title has political implications. Many Turks even think that His all holiness had no right to hold a meeting and excommunicate the former patriarch of Jerusalem, who had been accused on embezzlement.

^ Even THAT take is wrong...
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Offline LBK

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Re: Should the Hierarchs under Islam Speak out More?
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2009, 10:06:23 PM »
Quote
Many Turks even think that His all holiness had no right to hold a meeting and excommunicate the former patriarch of Jerusalem, who had been accused on embezzlement.


C'mon, already! A Turk who is Moslem has as much right to pontificate on Christian matters as an Orthodox Christian has in influencing a decision in deposing or censuring a Chief Rabbi or a Grand Ayatollah. A very large red herring, I'm afraid.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2009, 10:06:47 PM by LBK »
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Should the Hierarchs under Islam Speak out More?
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2009, 11:45:43 PM »
Quote
Many Turks even think that His all holiness had no right to hold a meeting and excommunicate the former patriarch of Jerusalem, who had been accused on embezzlement.


C'mon, already! A Turk who is Moslem has as much right to pontificate on Christian matters as an Orthodox Christian has in influencing a decision in deposing or censuring a Chief Rabbi or a Grand Ayatollah. A very large red herring, I'm afraid.

Yes, but the Turk has guns to back up his pontificating.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth