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Author Topic: The Great Horologion... now what do you do with it?  (Read 4576 times) Average Rating: 0
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ignatius
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« on: January 30, 2009, 05:34:59 PM »

Grace and Peace,

I recently purchased a used copy of The Great Horologion. I am attending an OCA Parish... could anyone explain how one might observe the Office with this very impressive tome?  Grin
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« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2009, 06:05:46 PM »

Grace and Peace,

I recently purchased a used copy of The Great Horologion. I am attending an OCA Parish... could anyone explain how one might observe the Office with this very impressive tome?  Grin

Which office are you referring to? For Matins and Vespers, you will need more than just the Great Horologion (i.e. the Menaion and the Paraklitiki/Ochtoechos, and the Triodion and Pentacostarion for the relevant seasons), and the rubrics are quite complicated. The Midnight Office (at least for weekdays), the Hours, and the Compline are fairly straight forward, and you should be able to follow the notes in your Horologion.

Did you buy the HTM or the Jordanville version? The HTM version is more useful, simply because it contains far more supplementary material. However, it follows Greek usage, and so the notes in the Jordanville version will be more in line with what you're used to in the OCA.
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« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2009, 06:09:26 PM »

Grace and Peace,

I recently purchased a used copy of The Great Horologion. I am attending an OCA Parish... could anyone explain how one might observe the Office with this very impressive tome?  Grin

Which office are you referring to? For Matins and Vespers, you will need more than just the Great Horologion (i.e. the Menaion and the Paraklitiki/Ochtoechos, and the Triodion and Pentacostarion for the relevant seasons), and the rubrics are quite complicated. The Midnight Office (at least for weekdays), the Hours, and the Compline are fairly straight forward, and you should be able to follow the notes in your Horologion.

I actually have those too but I'm interested in starting out small. Between the Midnight Office, the Hours and the Compline which is the easiest for a humble newbie to take on?  Huh

Quote
Did you buy the HTM or the Jordanville version? The HTM version is more useful, simply because it contains far more supplementary material. However, it follows Greek usage, and so the notes in the Jordanville version will be more in line with what you're used to in the OCA.

It's the HTM, a rather large red tome. So it's Greek...  Embarrassed

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« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2009, 03:40:42 AM »

Compline has the least amount of changing parts.  Most people usually have more time in the evening/night to pray.
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« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2009, 03:46:07 AM »

Don't stress out about this.  Just get involved in a daily rule of prayer.  Those are hard enough to keep going morning and night.  If you overload yourself, you're going to burn out.
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« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2009, 06:18:59 AM »

The great Horologion was not meant for personal prayer but rather is the guidelines for the corporate prayer services of the Orthodox Church. From the Horologion, we have adapted the many personal prayer books in use in the Orthodox Church.  I have used the Horologion to understand the design and even in my early days in the Church follow the daily services until I felt comfortable without it. 

The size and bulk of the Horologion is indicative that it is not for personal use but rather corporate usage, even  with its  large size, it must be utilized with many other books to get the daily readings specified for it. This is one of the reasons that we train Readers to serve the services because they are trained where to go to get the daily inserts and they or the other clergy read the changeable parts of the service.  Those who attend the hours and other daily services often join in on the  parts which repeat day after day as they memorize that portion of the service. What one will find is that the personal prayer books take those familiar parts of the Horologion and concentrate them into shorter personal services one can do throughout the day in one's own home. There are even abbreviated Horologian's for use within one's home that do not require the use of additional texts beyond the psalter and a Bible, I have one and it is wonderful for doing services when you are a distance from a local parish and want a daily pattern of family prayer.

Thomas
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« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2009, 12:18:05 PM »

The great Horologion was not meant for personal prayer but rather is the guidelines for the corporate prayer services of the Orthodox Church. From the Horologion, we have adapted the many personal prayer books in use in the Orthodox Church.  I have used the Horologion to understand the design and even in my early days in the Church follow the daily services until I felt comfortable without it. 

The size and bulk of the Horologion is indicative that it is not for personal use but rather corporate usage, even  with its  large size, it must be utilized with many other books to get the daily readings specified for it. This is one of the reasons that we train Readers to serve the services because they are trained where to go to get the daily inserts and they or the other clergy read the changeable parts of the service.  Those who attend the hours and other daily services often join in on the  parts which repeat day after day as they memorize that portion of the service. What one will find is that the personal prayer books take those familiar parts of the Horologion and concentrate them into shorter personal services one can do throughout the day in one's own home. There are even abbreviated Horologian's for use within one's home that do not require the use of additional texts beyond the psalter and a Bible, I have one and it is wonderful for doing services when you are a distance from a local parish and want a daily pattern of family prayer.

Thomas

Grace and Peace Thomas,

Actually, I also have an Old Believer's Prayer Book but I was confused about how complete the Hours were in there and so I found a used copy of the Horologion to figure this out. My Parish Priest will be helping me learn the Horologion because he has the same one about our Parish. Maybe in the future once I am Chrismated into Holy Orthodoxy I will be trained as a reader... ?

Is there a website that outlines the Office of the Hours or is this actually within the Horologion itself?
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« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2009, 01:56:07 PM »

Don't stress out about this.  Just get involved in a daily rule of prayer.  Those are hard enough to keep going morning and night.  If you overload yourself, you're going to burn out.

I agree with this.  If you were to do the Hours, midnight service, compline, etc. You would get a REALLY good basis for the services in general.  that will ultimately help you with vespers.  Which will in turn help you with matins.  Matins is especially complicated. 
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« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2009, 02:11:57 PM »

Don't stress out about this.  Just get involved in a daily rule of prayer.  Those are hard enough to keep going morning and night.  If you overload yourself, you're going to burn out.

I agree with this.  If you were to do the Hours, midnight service, compline, etc. You would get a REALLY good basis for the services in general.  that will ultimately help you with vespers.  Which will in turn help you with matins.  Matins is especially complicated. 

Yeah, I'll not stressed out about any of this. I'm more curious than anything. My little daughter and I do the shorter Evening Prayers found in A Pocket Prayer Book for Orthodox Christians. I also have an Old Believer's Orthodox Prayer Book but it's too long for my daughter to handle so I tend to only pray those prayers when my daughter is asleep.  laugh
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« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2009, 12:59:50 AM »

Don't stress out about this.  Just get involved in a daily rule of prayer.  Those are hard enough to keep going morning and night.  If you overload yourself, you're going to burn out.

I agree with this.  If you were to do the Hours, midnight service, compline, etc. You would get a REALLY good basis for the services in general.  that will ultimately help you with vespers.  Which will in turn help you with matins.  Matins is especially complicated. 

Yeah, I'll not stressed out about any of this. I'm more curious than anything. My little daughter and I do the shorter Evening Prayers found in A Pocket Prayer Book for Orthodox Christians. I also have an Old Believer's Orthodox Prayer Book but it's too long for my daughter to handle so I tend to only pray those prayers when my daughter is asleep.  laugh

so what were you planning on using the great horologion for?  I'm asking b/c i'm doing a project right now for HC/HC = a primer for the Typikon.  just some basics on the cycles, the services, the books, etc. and how the typikon works in general.  Its in its infancy stage right now (like i'm only halfway done), but it might open some doors for you.  I'm just trying to gauge what you think you might need.... Smiley
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« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2009, 01:43:42 AM »

Don't stress out about this.  Just get involved in a daily rule of prayer.  Those are hard enough to keep going morning and night.  If you overload yourself, you're going to burn out.

I agree with this.  If you were to do the Hours, midnight service, compline, etc. You would get a REALLY good basis for the services in general.  that will ultimately help you with vespers.  Which will in turn help you with matins.  Matins is especially complicated. 

Yeah, I'll not stressed out about any of this. I'm more curious than anything. My little daughter and I do the shorter Evening Prayers found in A Pocket Prayer Book for Orthodox Christians. I also have an Old Believer's Orthodox Prayer Book but it's too long for my daughter to handle so I tend to only pray those prayers when my daughter is asleep.  laugh

so what were you planning on using the great horologion for?  I'm asking b/c i'm doing a project right now for HC/HC = a primer for the Typikon.  just some basics on the cycles, the services, the books, etc. and how the typikon works in general.  Its in its infancy stage right now (like i'm only halfway done), but it might open some doors for you.  I'm just trying to gauge what you think you might need.... Smiley

I think I wanted to know what the Office of Hours really looked like and I found a used copy and just jumped on the opportunity.
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« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2009, 10:38:41 AM »

Don't stress out about this.  Just get involved in a daily rule of prayer.  Those are hard enough to keep going morning and night.  If you overload yourself, you're going to burn out.

I agree with this.  If you were to do the Hours, midnight service, compline, etc. You would get a REALLY good basis for the services in general.  that will ultimately help you with vespers.  Which will in turn help you with matins.  Matins is especially complicated. 

Yeah, I'll not stressed out about any of this. I'm more curious than anything. My little daughter and I do the shorter Evening Prayers found in A Pocket Prayer Book for Orthodox Christians. I also have an Old Believer's Orthodox Prayer Book but it's too long for my daughter to handle so I tend to only pray those prayers when my daughter is asleep.  laugh

so what were you planning on using the great horologion for?  I'm asking b/c i'm doing a project right now for HC/HC = a primer for the Typikon.  just some basics on the cycles, the services, the books, etc. and how the typikon works in general.  Its in its infancy stage right now (like i'm only halfway done), but it might open some doors for you.  I'm just trying to gauge what you think you might need.... Smiley

I think I wanted to know what the Office of Hours really looked like and I found a used copy and just jumped on the opportunity.

Well if you ever wanted to be more adventurous there are tons of people on OC.net who definitely know their liturgics who could open up a lot of doors for you.  I think that doing the hours will be enough though.  At least spiritually, it should be enough.   Wink Grin
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« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2009, 10:52:00 AM »

I actually have those too but I'm interested in starting out small.

You have the entire Menaion in English? If you come across a used copy of the HTM one, please let me know!

Quote
Between the Midnight Office, the Hours and the Compline which is the easiest for a humble newbie to take on?  Huh

None of them are particularly difficult. The Hours are the shortest, then Compline, then the Midnight Office. All the material you need is contained in your Horologion. The instructions are easy to follow, and the variable parts (basically just the daily dismissal hymns, and the Hypakoe for Sundays) are easy to locate.

Typically, the Midnight office is read when waking up, the Compline before going to sleep. So it would be good to familiarise yourself with these two first.

That being said, I find the Hours to be a great help during the day - between classes, on the train/bus, etc. The structure is the same for all 4, so you'll become comfortable with everything fairly quickly.

Quote
It's the HTM, a rather large red tome. So it's Greek...  Embarrassed

I have both, and the HTM publication is far superior imho.
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« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2009, 03:13:40 PM »

I actually have those too but I'm interested in starting out small.

You have the entire Menaion in English? If you come across a used copy of the HTM one, please let me know!

I have the Festal Menaion in English... is that what you were talking about?
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« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2009, 08:57:22 PM »

I have the Festal Menaion in English... is that what you were talking about?

The Festal Menaion just contains selected parts of the Menaion for the most important feasts. The Menaion itself is a 12 volume (one for each month) work, containing all of the services for every day of the year. The only complete English translation I know of is the HTM version, but there might be others.
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« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2009, 02:59:32 PM »

Is there a horologion online?
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« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2009, 03:15:32 PM »

Is there a horologion online?

The Dynamic Horologion
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« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2009, 03:19:59 PM »



ooooh, that is a nice site... Thanks!
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