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scamandrius
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« on: January 28, 2009, 03:58:48 PM » |
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I knew this would happen, but not this soon. As soon as Kirill was elected he immediately reaches out to the Vatican and has met with the pope. There are now ecumenists in control of both the MP and the EP and this does not bode well for Orthodoxy's station in the world as the One, true faith. My opinion, of course, but I'm not really thrilled about this, especially its immediacy.
New Orthodox Church Head Has Reached Out to Vatican
By VOA News
27 January 2009
Russian Orthodox Church interim leader Metropolitan Kirill of Smolensk and Kaliningrad seen in Moscow's Christ the Saviour Cathedral, 27 Jan. 2009
The new leader of the Russian Orthodox Church, Metropolitan Kirill, has met with the pope and made optimistic comments about better ties with the Roman Catholic Church.
But Russian analysts say no one should expect a quick thaw in relations between the Roman and Russian churches.
The 62-year-old Metropolitan Kirill was born in St. Petersburg and was ordained a priest in 1969. He was appointed a metropolitan (bishop) in 1991.
His church duties included a long stint as head of foreign relations.
Metropolitan Kirill has spoken about the need for warmer relations with the Roman Catholic Church.
He met with Pope Benedict XVI in the Vatican in 2007.
But he has also made comments echoing those of his predecessor, Patriarch Alexei, who accused the Vatican of attempting to convert Russian Orthodox believers.
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Michał Kalina
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« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2009, 04:06:32 PM » |
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Is there written that Cirill after being elected for patriarch has flown to Rome and met with BXVI?
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« Last Edit: January 28, 2009, 04:08:20 PM by mike »
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formerly known as mikeDespite being a Polish citizen I am not a Pole.  Long live Belarus! "It's my constitutional right!" |
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Veniamin
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« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2009, 04:07:47 PM » |
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I knew this would happen, but not this soon. As soon as Kirill was elected he immediately reaches out to the Vatican and has met with the pope. There are now ecumenists in control of both the MP and the EP and this does not bode well for Orthodoxy's station in the world as the One, true faith. My opinion, of course, but I'm not really thrilled about this, especially its immediacy.
I don't see what brings you to that conclusion. From the article posted, it seems to be referring to his activities prior to being elected Patriarch. |
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Justinian
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« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2009, 04:43:44 PM » |
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I shan't think him a ecumenist, especially since he was the author of the article posted in his thread: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,19332.0.html |
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« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2009, 05:20:29 PM » |
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This article says pretty much the opposite of the article referred to in the OP. Moscow, January 28, Interfax - There is no meeting with Pope Benedict XVI on the immediate agenda of Kirill, who was elected on Tuesday as head of the Russian Orthodox Church, nor does Kirill take a different stance on the Vatican than late Patriarch Alexy II did, a Russian bishop said on Wednesday. http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=5642 |
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Religion is a disease, and Orthodoxy is its cure.
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LBK
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« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2009, 05:24:55 PM » |
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The new leader of the Russian Orthodox Church, Metropolitan Kirill, has met with the pope and made optimistic comments about better ties with the Roman Catholic Church. If you know anything about Russian Patriarchs, new or past, you'll know that rapprochement with Rome only means "being nice" to them. Any chance of restoration of communion with Rome can only come about through Rome accepting the theological and doctrinal positions of the Orthodox Church. I don't think the new Patriarch will be any different from his predecessors in this regard. |
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« Last Edit: January 28, 2009, 05:25:25 PM by LBK »
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Alveus Lacuna
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« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2009, 05:25:14 PM » |
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This is alarmist feces. Ignore the article; ignore the thread! Ironically, I am drawing attention to it simply by posting this... [explodes]
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LBK
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« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2009, 05:31:05 PM » |
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Alveus, I can understand your alarm, but don't bust a boiler over this. If you know Russians the way that I do, no Russian Patriarch will allow ecclesiastical communion with Rome unless Rome accepts the doctrinal, dogmatic and theological changes to align it with Orthodoxy. Let's not forget that even during the Soviet era, the chance of "intercommunion" was zero if these conditions were not met.
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Orest
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« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2009, 05:45:34 PM » |
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I don't see any reason for alarm at all. The new leader of the Russian Orthodox Church, Metropolitan Kirill, has met with the pope and made optimistic comments about better ties with the Roman Catholic Church.
. Notice the past tense in the above sentence. He met with the pope in 2007 and not in the capacity of being the Patriarch of Moscow. He is open to dialogue as we all should be while at the same time maintaining the truth of Orthodoxy. Doesn't sound at all to me that he is a man of compromise. |
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Orthodoc
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« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2009, 05:47:43 PM » |
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Alveus, I can understand your alarm, but don't bust a boiler over this. If you know Russians the way that I do, no Russian Patriarch will allow ecclesiastical communion with Rome unless Rome accepts the doctrinal, dogmatic and theological changes to align it with Orthodoxy. Let's not forget that even during the Soviet era, the chance of "intercommunion" was zero if these conditions were not met.
I agree. I've learned to be wary of any articles that appear in the western media concerning the ROC or the Patriarch. Hours after his election they were posting complaints about his businesslike ventures to raise money to rebuild or restore all the churches destroyed by communisim. This coming from both those under Vatican authority and those who sell everything from soup to nuts on TBN! The article makes one think thast the first he did was lift up the phone and call the pope! It's just more wishful thinking and propaganda from the west! Orthodoc |
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Oh Lord, Save thy people and bless thine inheritance.
Grant victory to the Orthodox Christians over their adversaries.
And by virtue of thy Cross preserve thy habitation.
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Jimmy
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« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2009, 06:34:07 PM » |
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Even if he did meet with Rome, what is the problem in that? There hasn't been any compromise on anything so how could it be wrong? Are you gonna be that critical of your patriarchs simply for meeting with the pope?
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stashko
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« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2009, 06:54:30 PM » |
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Thats why i can't and won't give Him my support till it's proven otherwise...Ecumenist and the liberal's are truly the devils playground,,out to waterdown and destroy our ancient faith....
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 ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН. |
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PeterTheAleut
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« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2009, 07:11:46 PM » |
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Thats why i can't and won't give Him my support till it's proven otherwise...Ecumenist and the liberal's are truly the devils playground,,out to waterdown and destroy our ancient faith....
So you're going to presume His Holiness guilty of ecumenism until he proves himself innocent? What kind of misguided justice is that? Patriarch Kyrill has given us very good reason already to believe that he is most definitely NOT an ecumenist and IS most definitely committed to preserving the ancient faith. What evidence leads you to insist on believing otherwise? |
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Orthodoc
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« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2009, 07:21:21 PM » |
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Thats why i can't and won't give Him my support till it's proven otherwise...Ecumenist and the liberal's are truly the devils playground,,out to waterdown and destroy our ancient faith....
I am as anti-ecumenism as you. But I will pray for him and support himself until or unless he proves himself otherwise! Orthodoc |
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Oh Lord, Save thy people and bless thine inheritance.
Grant victory to the Orthodox Christians over their adversaries.
And by virtue of thy Cross preserve thy habitation.
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88Devin12
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« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2009, 08:26:38 PM » |
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So umm... Knowing the history of uncited and unreliable news articles posted on this section of the forum, you are saying that you refuse to support him until this unsourced and possibly false news report is proven to be false?
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Jakub
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« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2009, 09:36:46 PM » |
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Good grief, the newly elected MP has not been in office for more than a day and is getting whacked...
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An old timer is a man who's had a lot of interesting experiences -- some of them true.
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Αριστοκλής
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« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2009, 09:41:22 PM » |
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Good grief, the newly elected MP has not been in office for more than a day and is getting whacked...
Indeed. The "news" article states this meeting was in 2007; now everyone freaks out? |
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"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides
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Entscheidungsproblem
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« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2009, 09:47:30 PM » |
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Good grief, the newly elected MP has not been in office for more than a day and is getting whacked...
LoL! He hasn't even been enthroned yet and he is getting whacked! Here is a telegram Pope Benedict XVI sent to Patriarch-Elect Kirill today: To His Holiness Kirill
Patriarch of Moscow and of All Russia
I have received with gladness the news of your election as patriarch of Moscow and all Russia. I warmly congratulate you and wish you every strength and joy in the fulfillment of the great task which lies before you as you guide the Church over which you now preside along the path of spiritual growth and unity.
In prayer, I ask the Lord to grant you an abundance of wisdom to discern his will, to persevere in loving service of the people entrusted to your patriarchal ministry, and to sustain them in fidelity to the Gospel and the great traditions of Russian Orthodoxy. May the Almighty also bless your efforts to maintain communion among the Orthodox Churches and to seek that fullness of communion which is the goal of Catholic-Orthodox collaboration and dialogue.
I assure Your Holiness of my spiritual closeness and of the Catholic Church's commitment to cooperate with the Russian Orthodox Church for an ever clearer witness to the truth of the Christian message and to the values which alone can sustain today's world along the way of peace, justice and loving care of the marginalized. With brotherly affection in the Lord Jesus Christ, I invoke upon you the Holy Spirit's gifts of wisdom, strength and peace.
From the Vatican, 28 January 2009
BENEDICTUS PP. XVI
© Copyright 2009 -- Libreria Editrice Vaticana SourceNow, if we use the law of anagrams, I am sure someone can find the cryptic communique that outlines their long standing, mutual plan to destroy Orthodoxy in Russia...   |
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As a result of a thousand million years of evolution, the universe is becoming conscious of itself, able to understand something of its past history and its possible future.
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stashko
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« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2009, 10:34:49 PM » |
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Here is the Vatican in action..also when they beatified the Croatian ustasha cardinal...and the Russian /Ukrainian orthodox butcher...And I'm suppose to believe in the orthodox/vatican relationship that he wants to promote....
History it self should teach orthodoxy to avoid the vatican at all cost's....its detrimental to orthodoxy's existence...
How is our relationship going to last if the one mentioned below didn't last because the pope threw a wrench in the work...
ael's chief rabbinate severs ties with Vatican
AP - Wed Jan 28, 5:27 PM ET
JERUSALEM - Israel's chief rabbinate severed ties with the Vatican on Wednesday to protest a papal decision to reinstate a bishop who publicly denied 6 million Jews were killed during the Holocaust. The Jewish state's highest religious authority sent a letter to the Holy See expressing "sorrow and pain" at the papal decision.
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ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН. |
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PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
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« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2009, 12:04:45 AM » |
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Here is the Vatican in action..also when they beatified the Croatian ustasha cardinal...and the Russian /Ukrainian orthodox butcher...And I'm suppose to believe in the orthodox/vatican relationship that he wants to promote....
History it self should teach orthodoxy to avoid the vatican at all cost's....its detrimental to orthodoxy's existence...
How is our relationship going to last if the one mentioned below didn't last because the pope threw a wrench in the work...
Stashko, Most everyone here is aware of your longstanding bitterness and rage against the Vatican for crimes committed against your family. All I ask is that you give His Holiness, Patriarch Kyrill, the benefit of the doubt here and not force us to prove his innocence to you, especially considering that His Holiness was not yet Patriarch when he was reported to have visited with Pope Benedict. I also have a vested interest in asking that you not derail this thread by bringing your bile into it. - Peter |
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Jakub
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« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2009, 12:52:46 AM » |
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Question...has a Pope ever visited Russia before ?
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An old timer is a man who's had a lot of interesting experiences -- some of them true.
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stashko
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« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2009, 12:54:40 AM » |
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Excuse Me...But
am i allowed to express what i think or not on this forum or do i have to be a yes man and agree with everything,,,Hu
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ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН. |
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Eugenio
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« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2009, 01:00:09 AM » |
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Jakub: The short answer is no.
The late Pope John Paul II wanted to, but Patriarch Alexy repeatedly turned him down, citing ongoing disputes over Eastern-Rite Catholic Churches in the Ukraine, plus the Vatican's recent creation of Catholic dioceses in Russia itself.
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Alveus Lacuna
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« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2009, 01:01:04 AM » |
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Question...has a Pope ever visited Russia before? Perhaps to return the Theotokos of Vladimir icon. I am not certain... |
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88Devin12
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« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2009, 01:01:36 AM » |
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Well you are basing your opinion on an article that could in fact be forged and isn't reliably sourced. Considering the history of false news reports recently, I would say we should be suspect of the news article, not of the Patriarch... He is "innocent until proven guilty"
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Veniamin
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« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2009, 01:08:02 AM » |
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Here's a little bit of fact, rather than speculation, for everyone so that they'll calm down. As Metropolitan, one of Patriarch-elect Kirill's duties was as head of the MP's department of external relations, which is tasked with representing the MP to pretty much everyone else. In that capacity, he met with the Pope before being elected Patriarch. There's nothing sinister in the MP's foreign minister (for lack of a better term) meeting with others and it doesn't imply some sort of secret Unia in progress. Everyone calm down, take a Valium, and go about your normal business.
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Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl. ~Frederick the Great
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VirSpeluncaeOrthodoxae
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« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2009, 11:52:17 AM » |
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Excuse Me...But
am i allowed to express what i think or not on this forum or do i have to be a yes man and agree with everything,,,Hu
Don't be silly, of course you have to agree with everything. *sarcasm off* |
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Medieval, backwards, rigid, narrow-minded Traditionalist, Western Rite lover and proud of it! Make my day.
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Orthodoc
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Those who ignore history tend to repeat it.
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« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2009, 12:51:29 PM » |
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Here is the Vatican in action..also when they beatified the Croatian ustasha cardinal...and the Russian /Ukrainian orthodox butcher...And I'm suppose to believe in the orthodox/vatican relationship that he wants to promote....
History it self should teach orthodoxy to avoid the vatican at all cost's....its detrimental to orthodoxy's existence...
How is our relationship going to last if the one mentioned below didn't last because the pope threw a wrench in the work...
Israel's chief rabbinate severs ties with Vatican
AP - Wed Jan 28, 5:27 PM ET
JERUSALEM - Israel's chief rabbinate severed ties with the Vatican on Wednesday to protest a papal decision to reinstate a bishop who publicly denied 6 million Jews were killed during the Holocaust. The Jewish state's highest religious authority sent a letter to the Holy See expressing "sorrow and pain" at the papal decision.
The next step will to white wash the whole thing by rewriting his autobiography with revisionist history so that 30 years after his death he could be up for canonization ! It's been done before and will pobably be done again! Orthodoc |
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Oh Lord, Save thy people and bless thine inheritance.
Grant victory to the Orthodox Christians over their adversaries.
And by virtue of thy Cross preserve thy habitation.
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Orthodoc
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Those who ignore history tend to repeat it.
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« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2009, 01:02:53 PM » |
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This article says pretty much the opposite of the article referred to in the OP. Moscow, January 28, Interfax - There is no meeting with Pope Benedict XVI on the immediate agenda of Kirill, who was elected on Tuesday as head of the Russian Orthodox Church, nor does Kirill take a different stance on the Vatican than late Patriarch Alexy II did, a Russian bishop said on Wednesday. http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=5642And when the time does come it will once again depend on the sincerety of this pope as opposed to the previous one on playing with the western media by agreeing upon a specific agenda for the meeting and then secretly changing the agenda once the meeting was annouced in the western press. Thereby, forcing the Patriarch to cancel the meeting and appear bad in the western press because all the agreed upon items (such as the 'U' word) were taken off the agenda by the pope. Orthodoc |
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Oh Lord, Save thy people and bless thine inheritance.
Grant victory to the Orthodox Christians over their adversaries.
And by virtue of thy Cross preserve thy habitation.
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ozgeorge
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« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2009, 01:05:24 PM » |
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I've moved this to free for all, non-religious topic.
Happy gossipping ladies.
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If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
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Entscheidungsproblem
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« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2009, 01:38:08 PM » |
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Here is the Vatican in action..also when they beatified the Croatian ustasha cardinal...and the Russian /Ukrainian orthodox butcher...And I'm suppose to believe in the orthodox/vatican relationship that he wants to promote....
History it self should teach orthodoxy to avoid the vatican at all cost's....its detrimental to orthodoxy's existence...
How is our relationship going to last if the one mentioned below didn't last because the pope threw a wrench in the work...
Israel's chief rabbinate severs ties with Vatican
AP - Wed Jan 28, 5:27 PM ET
JERUSALEM - Israel's chief rabbinate severed ties with the Vatican on Wednesday to protest a papal decision to reinstate a bishop who publicly denied 6 million Jews were killed during the Holocaust. The Jewish state's highest religious authority sent a letter to the Holy See expressing "sorrow and pain" at the papal decision.
The next step will to white wash the whole thing by rewriting his autobiography with revisionist history so that 30 years after his death he could be up for canonization ! It's been done before and will pobably be done again! Orthodoc Oh, the horror, commenting about the only untouchable period in history. |
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As a result of a thousand million years of evolution, the universe is becoming conscious of itself, able to understand something of its past history and its possible future.
-- Sir Julian Sorell Huxley FRS |
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lubeltri
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« Reply #31 on: January 29, 2009, 03:32:10 PM » |
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It was Kirill's job, his meeting the Holy Father doesn't signify anything. See this?  This was during his travels last year to promote the Russian Orthodox Church in Latin America. Two lessons from this: 1) He does his job serving the Russian state in its strategy against America (and the RO Church as diplomat). 2) He's not afraid of infringing on "our" (Catholic) territory. So what are you folks afraid of? Don't expect to see much change in the status quo with him as Metropolitan. Papal visits to Moscow will remain a fantasy, I expect. |
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