Brush those teeth...or not.

[Twenty Nine]

I have been taught that we should not brush our teeth before Liturgy, but this does not seem to be a universal practice.

Is this a common practice?

Gregory

[Pravoslavbob]

Go ahead and brush.

[arimethea]

I have been taught that we should not brush our teeth before Liturgy, but this does not seem to be a universal practice.

Is this a common practice?

Gregory

This is yayaology. PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF EVERYONE AROUND YOU BRUSH YOUR TEETH AND USE MOUTHWASH!!!!!!!

If you brush your teeth correctly you will not be breaking a fast since you should not be swallowing any of the items you use to keep your mouth fresh and clean. Also please shower before liturgy and use deodorant. Lastly SAY NO TO BIRKENSTOCKS!!!!

[Pravoslavbob]

This is yayaology.

For those in churches of Slav derivation, "Baba theology".     Not to say that baba theology is always wrong.

[Michał Kalina]

I've been explained that since I washed my teeth in the evening and after that I've not eaten anything they're still clean in the morning I also don't take medicines when I have to and I take Holy Communion at that day.

[Heorhij]

This is yayaology.

I loved it.  Thanks for the term. 

In Ukrainian, its' "бабині казки" (grandmother's fairy tales).

[Heorhij]

I've been explained that since I washed my teeth in the evening and after that I've not eaten anything they're still clean in the morning I also don't take medicines when I have to and I take Holy Communion at that day.

Mike, seriously, if you need to take your medicine, please do take it. I believe it's just unreasonable to abstain from medication just because you will go to the Chalice.

[Michał Kalina]

It wasn't some serious things but some cold-killers, vitamins or something like that. It could wait.

[ialmisry]

I have been taught that we should not brush our teeth before Liturgy, but this does not seem to be a universal practice.

Is this a common practice?

Gregory

Whatever you do, don't brush for a while after communing.

[LizaSymonenko]

As children we loved "Feast" days at church, when we would partake of Holy Communion and get annointed after the Liturgy.

On those days our mother allowed us NOT to brush our teeth (so as not to wash out the Holy Communion - we were also not allowed to spit, eat anything like chicken with bones [because you would remove the bones from your mouth], cherries with pits, no chewing gum, etc.) and we didn't have to WASH our faces (so as not to wash off the holy myrrh)!

Such simple things bring such joy to little minds!  We got to "break" the rules and not get punished!   

[Elisha]

I have been taught that we should not brush our teeth before Liturgy, but this does not seem to be a universal practice.

Is this a common practice?

Gregory

Whatever you do, don't brush for a while after communing.

I can't tell if you're being facetious or not, but I would define "a while" in this instance as in at least until after I got home from church...but I rarely brush my teeth in the middle of the day anyways, so NA to me.

[wynd]

I have been taught that we should not brush our teeth before Liturgy, but this does not seem to be a universal practice.

I'd hate to sing in that choir.

Is this a common practice?

I've never heard of it.

[Keble]

This is yayaology.

LOL 

[VirSpeluncaeOrthodoxae]

For the love of God brush your teeth! It's stuff like that that make me want to whip out my club.

[SakranMM]

People, brush your teeth before communion.  You'll clean the rest of your body and dress up in nice Sunday clothes before Divine Liturgy, so why not clean out your mouth as well?  Trust me, the priest does not want to smell your nasty morning breath when you come up to the chalice with your mouth wide open.

All joking aside, we need to really examine the purpose of communion.  It is to be united with God through Christ and with our fellow Christians.  Piety is a good thing, but when we get so focused on things like whether I should brush my teeth or take my medicine before communion or not, you're replacing the whole nature of communion with "pious practice," and that is not a good thing.

[ytterbiumanalyst]

I've been explained that since I washed my teeth in the evening and after that I've not eaten anything they're still clean in the morning.

That's not true, actually. There are hordes of bacteria that do their worst damage while you're asleep. In fact, this is the chief reason why the American Dental Association recommends brushing your teeth just before you go to sleep and just after you wake up.

And please, for the love of jelly doughnuts,

BRUSH YOUR TEETH BEFORE LITURGY!

NOT EVERYTHING HAS A CANON TO THINK FOR YOU!

JUST TRY TO LIVE LIKE CHRIST, OKAY?!

I swear, the number of times I've had to say this to Orthodox Christians....

[Twenty Nine]

I don't have an opinion either way. I simply wanted to see what other people practiced.

In fact, even though it is not a big deal to me, it seems a little strange (for those who say you shouldn't brush your teeth) that you can down coffee, etc right after Liturgy.

[antiderivative]

I always brush my teeth, but I'm careful not swallow anything. I just spit it all out, it's not that hard.

[FrChris]

From the perspective of a priest...

Yes, please feel free to bruch your teeth and use mouthwash prior to the Liturgy.

Please also take medicines if you need to. I have heard of a woman (not in my current parish) who had a traffic accident on the way to the Liturgy because she refused to take her medicine and she blacked out while behind the wheel. Another person on a motorcycle was hit and killed, and she has to carry this feeling of guilt with her for the rest of her life.

[Elpidophoros]

I do not see the point....
Even you swallowed water during brushing kata lathos,you still can attend liturgy,the only difference is:you should not eat your antidoron immediately after the liturgy,but keep it for monday morning.

[HandmaidenofGod]

I wish ytterbiumanalyst would clarify his feelings on the issue. I'm a little lost.     

[arimethea]

I do not see the point....
Even you swallowed water during brushing kata lathos,you still can attend liturgy,the only difference is:you should not eat your antidoron immediately after the liturgy,but keep it for monday morning.

What??? Who fast before eating antidoron?

[PeterTheAleut]

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, YOUR PRIEST, AND YOUR NEIGHBOR, BRUSH YOUR TEETH!!!

[ozgeorge]

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, YOUR PRIEST, AND YOUR NEIGHBOR, BRUSH YOUR TEETH!!!

Is this a local custom or one which applies to the whole Church?

[Elpidophoros]

What??? Who fast before eating antidoron?

Yes, we do......and do it for both great and lesser holy water....

[PeterTheAleut]

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, YOUR PRIEST, AND YOUR NEIGHBOR, BRUSH YOUR TEETH!!!

Is this a local custom or one which applies to the whole Church?

Well, I certainly don't offer it up as anything dogmatic, so my answer to your question is neither.   Practically speaking, I just don't want to smell someone else's bad breath, and I don't think they want to smell mine.

[ytterbiumanalyst]

I wish ytterbiumanalyst would clarify his feelings on the issue. I'm a little lost.     

I've been a part of legalistic churches before, and they're full of people who frequently make a really big deal out of nothing. Orthodoxy is in no way legalistic (though it seems to appear that way to my Pentecostal friends who attend an almost-anything-goes service with dancing and rock music), so I have a reason for wanting to state, even adamantly, that Orthodoxy is not legalistic.

[arimethea]

What??? Who fast before eating antidoron?

Yes, we do......and do it for both great and lesser holy water....

The Holy Water I understand but to fast for antidoron is just plain stupid. The antidoron is the instead of the gifts and if you didn't take communion because of a lack of fast you should therefore partake of the antidoron. It is just bread after all.

[ialmisry]

What??? Who fast before eating antidoron?

Yes, we do......and do it for both great and lesser holy water....

The Holy Water I understand but to fast for antidoron is just plain stupid. The antidoron is the instead of the gifts and if you didn't take communion because of a lack of fast you should therefore partake of the antidoron. It is just bread after all.

Makes me wonder, why didn't you take communion if you have to fast?

I do not see the point....
Even you swallowed water during brushing kata lathos,you still can attend liturgy,the only difference is:you should not eat your antidoron immediately after the liturgy,but keep it for monday morning.

kata lathos?  You mean by accident?

Why keep it to Monday morning?

But then I'd say if you swallowed water during brushing kata lathos, but otherwise prepared, take communion.

[SolEX01]

Just as with pews, can this be declared a dead topic?      

[PeterTheAleut]

Just as with pews, can this be declared a dead topic?      

Why?  Because you don't like it?

[SolEX01]

Just as with pews, can this be declared a dead topic?      

Why?  Because you don't like it?

You can telepathically read my mind?   

[PeterTheAleut]

Just as with pews, can this be declared a dead topic?      

Why?  Because you don't like it?

You can telepathically read my mind?   

No, you're just bad at not telegraphing your mind.

[Alveus Lacuna]

Just as with pews, can this be declared a dead topic?

Thank you so much for bringing this up.  I cannot stand pews and think that they should be removed from all Orthodox churches immediately; no exceptions.  I think we should start a separate thread on this issue.  Can I get an amen?

[HandmaidenofGod]

Just as with pews, can this be declared a dead topic?

Thank you so much for bringing this up.  I cannot stand pews and think that they should be removed from all Orthodox churches immediately; no exceptions.  I think we should start a separate thread on this issue.  Can I get an amen?

Plenty of threads have already exhausted this DEAD topic. Which is why it's referred to as a DEAD topic, because it's been discussed to DEATH. Do a search and see for yourself.

[SolEX01]

Just as with pews, can this be declared a dead topic?

Thank you so much for bringing this up.  I cannot stand pews and think that they should be removed from all Orthodox churches immediately; no exceptions.  I think we should start a separate thread on this issue.  Can I get an amen?

Alveus, I'm wishing for the death of the current thread (e.g. brushing teeth) and not a thread which has died a thousand deaths and refuses to die (e.g. pews).    

[SolEX01]

Just as with pews, can this be declared a dead topic?      

Why?  Because you don't like it?

You can telepathically read my mind?   

No, you're just bad at not telegraphing your mind.

Let me go brush my teeth ... (after a 2 minutes have elapsed)

Not telegraphing my mind?     Someone must have done better in Context Clues than I did.

[arimethea]

Just as with pews, can this be declared a dead topic?

Thank you so much for bringing this up.  I cannot stand pews and think that they should be removed from all Orthodox churches immediately; no exceptions.  I think we should start a separate thread on this issue.  Can I get an amen?

Alveus, I'm wishing for the death of the current thread (e.g. brushing teeth) and not a thread which has died a thousand deaths and refuses to die (e.g. pews).    

When this thread reaches 247 post and becomes 6 pages long then I might consider closing it.

[PeterTheAleut]

Just as with pews, can this be declared a dead topic?

Thank you so much for bringing this up.  I cannot stand pews and think that they should be removed from all Orthodox churches immediately; no exceptions.  I think we should start a separate thread on this issue.  Can I get an amen?

Alveus, I'm wishing for the death of the current thread (e.g. brushing teeth) and not a thread which has died a thousand deaths and refuses to die (e.g. pews).    

When this thread reaches 247 post and becomes 6 pages long then I might consider closing it.

IOW, we're not going to close a thread just because one of our posters thinks the discussion lame or is tired of seeing it.  It's actually quite simple.  If you don't like a thread, just don't read it.  If you think a discussion lame, just don't join it.  Derailing it with useless spam and complaints does nothing but make you most unwelcome.

[HandmaidenofGod]

When this thread reaches 247 post and becomes 6 pages long then I might consider closing it.

What, pray tell, shall we discuss next? Whether God prefers wintermint to spearmint toothpaste?

[SolEX01]

How about flossing or recommended tooth whitening products? 

How about who does the best and low-cost cosmetic dentistry?   

[PeterTheAleut]

When this thread reaches 247 post and becomes 6 pages long then I might consider closing it.

What, pray tell, shall we discuss next? Whether God prefers wintermint to spearmint toothpaste?

Spearmint!  Definitely spearmint!

[PeterTheAleut]

Okay, enough levity around here.  Let's get this thread back on topic, regardless of how stupid you may think it.

[Elpidophoros]

The Holy Water I understand but to fast for antidoron is just plain stupid.

Why?I think it's a commom practice at least in my jurisdiction and area. The only difference is: in "parish practice" priest maybe not "emphasize"this ,and sometimes maybe "acquiesce" the non-fasting-keeper guys to take them as a kind of oikonomia.
but in "monastery practise" monks warn you clearly do not take antidoron if you drank wather after midnight....

The antidoron is the instead of the gifts and if you didn't take communion because of a lack of fast you should therefore partake of the antidoron.

keep fasting from midnight is not the only request for Holy Communion. There could be many reasons make people not going to receive.(for example: hasn't read the ;did not make confession or did not fulfill the penance from his spiritual father;eat egg or drank milk Sat.evning and so on and so on....)

It is just bread after all.

Yes,but not same from the bread on your meal table.

[PeterTheAleut]

The antidoron is the instead of the gifts and if you didn't take communion because of a lack of fast you should therefore partake of the antidoron.

keep fasting from midnight is not the only request for Holy Communion. There could be many reasons make people not going to receive.(for example: hasn't read the ;

Hasn't read the...  Canon of Preparation for Communion?

did not make confession or did not fulfill the penance from his spiritual father;eat egg or drank milk Sat.evning and so on and so on....)

Ahh, the rituals we put up to keep people FROM receiving the Life of the Holy Eucharist.

[Elpidophoros]

Hasn't read the...  Canon of Preparation for Communion?

Oh,I'm sorry ,I missed some words here.
The most common preparation(metaleipseos)is 3 psalms +Canon of Preparation for Communion+10 prayers.
In some traditions add other 3 canons+ 1 akathist....(I'm sure that some OCA churches do this...)

Ahh, the rituals we put up to keep people FROM receiving the Life of the Holy Eucharist.

Why not?
To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;

[PeterTheAleut]

Ahh, the rituals we put up to keep people FROM receiving the Life of the Holy Eucharist.

Why not?
To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;

Because Jesus said, "unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you."

[Elpidophoros]

Because Jesus said, "unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you."

And St.Mary the Egyptian ate twice（once after her metanoia,once before her blessed sleeping ),she got less life in her than us?

[Pravoslavbob]

And St.Mary the Egyptian ate twice（once after her metanoia,once before her blessed sleeping ),she got less life in her than us?

Are you saying that we are just as holy as St. Mary of Egypt and therefore don't need to go to communion regularly?  Very few people have the vocation to lead the life of an isolated hermit.  St. Mary was definitely one of those people. 

[Pravoslavbob]

Hasn't read the...  Canon of Preparation for Communion?

Oh,I'm sorry ,I missed some words here.
The most common preparation(metaleipseos)is 3 psalms +Canon of Preparation for Communion+10 prayers.
In some traditions add other 3 canons+ 1 akathist....(I'm sure that some OCA churches do this...)

No amount of prayer and fasting can ever make one "worthy" to receive communion.  There is never a communion that is not given or received by a sinner, ever.  To think otherwise might amount to the worst kind of pride imaginable.  BTW, I do not mean by this that people should not do whatever is realistically possible to prepare themselves to receive the Gifts. 

[Elpidophoros]

Hasn't read the...  Canon of Preparation for Communion?

Oh,I'm sorry ,I missed some words here.
The most common preparation(metaleipseos)is 3 psalms +Canon of Preparation for Communion+10 prayers.
In some traditions add other 3 canons+ 1 akathist....(I'm sure that some OCA churches do this...)

No amount of prayer and fasting can ever make one "worthy" to receive communion.  There is never a communion that is not given or received by a sinner, ever.  To think otherwise might amount to the worst kind of pride imaginable.  BTW, I do not mean by this that people should not do whatever is realistically possible to prepare themselves to receive the Gifts. 

Amen and amen!
This is why we should keep the "idealist superfluous severe practice of  Preparation for Communion" so let almost no one can fulfill them perfectly even literally.So let everyone who received realize that he only received according to oikonomia and out of the Mercy of the Merciful One.

[Pravoslavbob]

Well, I can see that although we agree on some things here, there are others that we are not going to agree on, so I will stop here.  In any event, this discussion is better suited to the thread begun by PtA on the issue and the links provided by him there together with the thread itself deal with the issue quite extensively, as you are aware.

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,19491.0.html

[PeterTheAleut]

Amen and amen!
This is why we should keep the "idealist superfluous severe practice of  Preparation for Communion" so let almost no one can fulfill them perfectly even literally.So let everyone who received realize that he only received according to oikonomia and out of the Mercy of the Merciful One.

Reply posted here:  http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,19491.msg288271.html#msg288271

[rwprof]

I have been taught that we should not brush our teeth before Liturgy, but this does not seem to be a universal practice.

Is this a common practice?

Gregory

This is yayaology. PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF EVERYONE AROUND YOU BRUSH YOUR TEETH AND USE MOUTHWASH!!!!!!!

If you brush your teeth correctly you will not be breaking a fast since you should not be swallowing any of the items you use to keep your mouth fresh and clean. Also please shower before liturgy and use deodorant. Lastly SAY NO TO BIRKENSTOCKS!!!!

Amen!

[Douglas]

I'm new here (as you can tell from my post number  ) and so I'll tread lightly. It seems to me that brushing our teeth and caring for our bodies (regardless of whether we accidentally swallow some water or not) is an important preparation in communing with those around us. It's certainly never been in an issue in the 20 or so years that I've been Orthodox. And as the last poster mentioned, it's amazing the things the rigorists come up with which intentionally or unintentionally prevent us from communing of His Body and Blood. I doubt it pleases our Lord and Savior.

[Fr. David]

So...what's wrong with Birkenstocks?  Νεκταριος just mentioned them in his "Converts and fake accents" thread, and they're yelled about here...just curious.  Never owned a pair, don't know what the stigma is regarding the apparent penchant some krazy konverts have towards them...

[Elisha]

Their vacant former HQ is 20 miles away from me....less than a mile from two former employers!

[EkhristosAnesti]

I think this is one of those matters to be assessed in light of the "the law was made for man, not man for the law" dictum.

A Coptic Saint of the 12th century stipulated that one should not gargle water before partaking of the Eucharist because of "the mystery of God’s words to His servant Moses, that the Passover lamb, which was an example of the Body of Christ, was to be eaten with bitterness"--a bitterness that was to signify our corruption, and hence our need to participate in the incorruption of Christ's Humanity.

When asked about whether one should clean their teeth before Communion, HH Pope Shenouda answered that one should for the same reason one should clean their house in preparation to receive a royal guest.

In my humble opinion, when it comes to dealing with seemingly frivolous issues such as the one the subject of this thread, the main focus should be on how one's approach to it affects him/her spiritually. If the bitterness of a dry morning mouth helps, even in the slightest, to inspire a repentant approach to the Eucharist, then that is a good thing. If brushing one's teeth helps, even in the slightest, to enforce a conscious awareness that the bread and wine to be consumed are truly the Body and Blood of the Almighty King, then that is a good thing. And of course, as in all things, in the absence of any strict ruling on the matter (and to my knowledge there is none), any determination as to what is in one's spiritual favour is to be made under the guidance of the relevant authorities.

[Elisha]

EkhristosAnesti,

I like your answer.  For me though, I come from the point of view of one who sings regularly in the choir.  In this circumstance, things like brushing teeth and even drinking water or other things (and then of course not partaking of Communion) are necessary to provide that joyful noise and leadership for singing.  As one who has the gift of singing, I need to be able to perform and there are physiological needs to do this.  Physically speaking, if you are not serving or singing (i.e. a Joe Schmoe parishoner), you pretty much just need to be able to crawl to the Communion line, sacrificing all other bodily needs (food/water).  But if you are singing/chanting, then there are different circumstances.  I really haven't read of any "accomodations" per se for those that sing/chant.

(Sidebar:  10 years ago, while still in college and attending a small mission, the priest, during a Presanctified, fell to his knees about 2/3 the way through the service.  He recovered, served Communion and was subsequently fed, but it was a scary event.  He was not young (late 50's or early 60's), but fasting for Lent as well as taking High Blood pressure medication.  The paramedics were actually called and waited outside.  As much as we need to stress fasting, we also need to take medical conditions into account.  This priest, while well intentioned, should have eaten and drunk something around noon at least to avoid this happening, but ce la vie.) 

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