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Jonny
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« on: January 12, 2009, 01:35:19 PM »

Is there an Orthodox equivalent of the Roman Catholic triple sacrament of the last rites?
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« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2009, 03:09:12 PM »

Is there an Orthodox equivalent of the Roman Catholic triple sacrament of the last rites?

What exactly is the RC triple sacrament of the last rites, for those of us who don't know...  Smiley
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« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2009, 03:22:25 PM »

Is there an Orthodox equivalent of the Roman Catholic triple sacrament of the last rites?

What exactly is the RC triple sacrament of the last rites, for those of us who don't know...  Smiley

I presume it's Penance, Unction, and Communion (trying to remember HS Theology classes).
« Last Edit: January 12, 2009, 03:22:39 PM by cleveland » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2009, 03:31:47 PM »

Is there an Orthodox equivalent of the Roman Catholic triple sacrament of the last rites?

What exactly is the RC triple sacrament of the last rites, for those of us who don't know...  Smiley

Confession
Holy Unction
Holy Communion

Administered to people who are dying.
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« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2009, 04:37:28 PM »


However, the above mentioned, are not reserved only for the dying in Orthodoxy.  All three are also administered to the very much living to enhance and enlighten their lives.

I may be mistaken, but the RC have "last rights" which are specific to the dying.  I don't believe we, Orthodox, have anything like that - reserved for the dying only.

...just my humble opinion.

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« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2009, 04:41:43 PM »

Is there an Orthodox equivalent of the Roman Catholic triple sacrament of the last rites?

What exactly is the RC triple sacrament of the last rites, for those of us who don't know...  Smiley

Confession
Holy Unction
Holy Communion

Administered to people who are dying.

I don't think it's as "prescribed" perhaps would be the best explanation.  It's more based on what the person needs, and where they are in their life (or death process).  If a person would like to confess before they die, that is certainly available to them.  Unction is given to those who are sick in general, so that can always be given.  Communion is a sort of "last act" of a person, but it's not necessarily required. 

I'm not sure what other people's understanding is, but this is basically what i've seen done by priests: 

One priest I know, gives communion and unction to all sick people he visits. 

Another priest I know only gives communion to those who are about to die, and otherwise gives everyone unction. 

So...not sure what you were looking for, but I hope this is informative!  (if i'm in line with what is the general practice...which I hope is true...lol)
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« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2009, 06:11:38 PM »

Seriously they aren't called "last rites" anymore in the Roman Catholic communion.  In other words different names for the same thing.  Now they would call it the Anointing of the Sick, whereas in days gone by the only time you'd be anointed in the Roman Catholic Church was when you were near imminent death. 
I'm sure someone on is going to cruise in and argue because they think since they read it on the internet I must be wrong.  I go by what I learned in the real world, and that was a very Roman Catholic Communion world until I joined the Eastern Orthodox Church.
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« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2009, 06:46:42 PM »

Seriously they aren't called "last rites" anymore in the Roman Catholic communion.  In other words different names for the same thing.  Now they would call it the Anointing of the Sick, whereas in days gone by the only time you'd be anointed in the Roman Catholic Church was when you were near imminent death. 
I'm sure someone on is going to cruise in and argue because they think since they read it on the internet I must be wrong.  I go by what I learned in the real world, and that was a very Roman Catholic Communion world until I joined the Eastern Orthodox Church.

They may not be called the last rites any more by the Church in its documents and mandates but us Catholic lay people still refer to them as the last rites and I'll be damned if you can find a practicing Catholic who will not call on a Priest for the last rites because someones told them that they don't exist. Also, the Priest still comes.

We may be able to have the Sacrament of Holy Unction outside of the last rites now but that doesn't mean they don't exist. Even if it is only as a practise and no longer in an official capacity.

I am on this forum to explore whether or not God's true Church is the Orthodox Church and also to try and find out as much as I can about the Orthodox Church and how it differs from the Roman Church. Its not appreciated when someone decides my question is not valid because they know better because they were a Roman Catholic. I am a Roman Catholic and I tell you that the last rites is still practiced.


Also I really don't like being told that I've learned about the last rites on the Internet.

I'm sorry if this seems blunt but what someone told you once when you were Catholic about the last rites, or any Catholic practice, doesn't change the reality of what happens in the parishes and thats what I'm talking about.
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« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2009, 06:51:21 PM »


I don't think it's as "prescribed" perhaps would be the best explanation.  It's more based on what the person needs, and where they are in their life (or death process).  If a person would like to confess before they die, that is certainly available to them.  Unction is given to those who are sick in general, so that can always be given.  Communion is a sort of "last act" of a person, but it's not necessarily required. 

I'm not sure what other people's understanding is, but this is basically what i've seen done by priests: 

One priest I know, gives communion and unction to all sick people he visits. 

Another priest I know only gives communion to those who are about to die, and otherwise gives everyone unction. 

So...not sure what you were looking for, but I hope this is informative!  (if i'm in line with what is the general practice...which I hope is true...lol)

This is exactly what I wanted to know. Thank you.
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« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2009, 06:58:20 PM »

Seriously they aren't called "last rites" anymore in the Roman Catholic communion.  In other words different names for the same thing.  Now they would call it the Anointing of the Sick, whereas in days gone by the only time you'd be anointed in the Roman Catholic Church was when you were near imminent death. 
I'm sure someone on is going to cruise in and argue because they think since they read it on the internet I must be wrong.  I go by what I learned in the real world, and that was a very Roman Catholic Communion world until I joined the Eastern Orthodox Church.

They may not be called the last rites any more by the Church in its documents and mandates but us Catholic lay people still refer to them as the last rites and I'll be damned if you can find a practicing Catholic who will not call on a Priest for the last rites because someones told them that they don't exist. Also, the Priest still comes.

We may be able to have the Sacrament of Holy Unction outside of the last rites now but that doesn't mean they don't exist. Even if it is only as a practise and no longer in an official capacity.

I am on this forum to explore whether or not God's true Church is the Orthodox Church and also to try and find out as much as I can about the Orthodox Church and how it differs from the Roman Church. Its not appreciated when someone decides my question is not valid because they know better because they were a Roman Catholic. I am a Roman Catholic and I tell you that the last rites is still practiced.


Also I really don't like being told that I've learned about the last rites on the Internet.

I'm sorry if this seems blunt but what someone told you once when you were Catholic about the last rites, or any Catholic practice, doesn't change the reality of what happens in the parishes and thats what I'm talking about.

In regards to your last statement and parishes, it is VERY important to understand that most people on this forum, and in general (when discussing theology) separate what is THEOLOGICAL (or academic study of theology, the dogmas of the church in the ecumenical councils, the Tradition, etc.) from what is PRACTICAL (or what you see in parishes). 

The reality is that sometimes what is done in parishes is not a direct reflection of some of our theological foundations.  Not to say that they are being heretical, just perhaps not as "theological" as some may want them to be.  Does this make the wrong?  Not necessarily.  But neither does it make them right.  If a priest or bishop is doing something that you think isn't right, the best option is to just ask them what they're doing, and why.  Then check it against what you can read, what you know, and even what we discuss here.  Then continue the conversation with your priest. 

As you can see, having a priest to work these things out with is critical to this process as a whole.  If you use the internet only for spiritual nourishment, i'm afraid you will most likely be disillusioned very fast. 
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« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2009, 08:32:43 PM »

Seriously they aren't called "last rites" anymore in the Roman Catholic communion.  In other words different names for the same thing.  Now they would call it the Anointing of the Sick, whereas in days gone by the only time you'd be anointed in the Roman Catholic Church was when you were near imminent death. 
I'm sure someone on is going to cruise in and argue because they think since they read it on the internet I must be wrong.  I go by what I learned in the real world, and that was a very Roman Catholic Communion world until I joined the Eastern Orthodox Church.

They may not be called the last rites any more by the Church in its documents and mandates but us Catholic lay people still refer to them as the last rites and I'll be damned if you can find a practicing Catholic who will not call on a Priest for the last rites because someones told them that they don't exist. Also, the Priest still comes.

We may be able to have the Sacrament of Holy Unction outside of the last rites now but that doesn't mean they don't exist. Even if it is only as a practise and no longer in an official capacity.

I am on this forum to explore whether or not God's true Church is the Orthodox Church and also to try and find out as much as I can about the Orthodox Church and how it differs from the Roman Church. Its not appreciated when someone decides my question is not valid because they know better because they were a Roman Catholic. I am a Roman Catholic and I tell you that the last rites is still practiced.


Also I really don't like being told that I've learned about the last rites on the Internet.

I'm sorry if this seems blunt but what someone told you once when you were Catholic about the last rites, or any Catholic practice, doesn't change the reality of what happens in the parishes and thats what I'm talking about.

  I wasn't speaking about you. 
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« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2009, 08:35:21 PM »

Last Rites my be practiced and yes, called that by people.  However in all my years at Catholic learning institutions we were told not to call them that anymore and it was anointing of the sick.  Like said earlier, while we were told "they're not called that anymore" in the classroom you may encounter people in the parish level calling them "last rites."
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« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2009, 11:24:12 AM »

More common in the Orthodox Church than the "last rites" [which are actually a continuation of  what every living Orthodox Christian may have served for them] could be called the first rites for the reposed. As soon as someone has reposed, if the priest is not present , the family or friends immediately call or inform a priest, so he can read the "Prayers on the Departure of the Soul," which are appointed to be read over all Orthodox Christians after death. Panikidas or Trisagions are offered for the next 30 days for the reposed both in Church and in the home.  The Akathist for those who have reposed is used by many who pray in their home or on their own for those who have reposed.  If possible family and friends should take turns reading the psalter over the deceased until the funeral.

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« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2009, 08:32:32 PM »

In the RCC, Holy Unction during last rites is often called Extreme Unction.  The Holy Communion given to the dying is called Viaticum--Latin meaning with you on your way, or something like that.

The Latin Church has the "Anointing of the Sick," which can be done outside of last rites.
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« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2009, 08:50:46 PM »

Seriously they aren't called "last rites" anymore in the Roman Catholic communion.  In other words different names for the same thing.  Now they would call it the Anointing of the Sick, whereas in days gone by the only time you'd be anointed in the Roman Catholic Church was when you were near imminent death. 
I'm sure someone on is going to cruise in and argue because they think since they read it on the internet I must be wrong.  I go by what I learned in the real world, and that was a very Roman Catholic Communion world until I joined the Eastern Orthodox Church.

My story suggests your point about the older usage; however, I differ on the name issue.  About 4-5 years ago, on the advice of a Catholic priest I know but who lives far away, I went to a Catholic priest to ask to be anointed for a chronic health problem.  I did not feel comfortable going to my own priest for certain good reasons, so I went to the priest in the next town.  The priest was older, and when I explained why had come to him, he said that he would not anoint me.  Despite my health problem, he said that I was not sick, which I took to mean that I was not dying.  I was at college at the time, and a few weeks later, I went home on break and asked the priest there if he could anoint me.  He said yes and explained that some priests do different.

Growing up, I recall CCD classes in which several names were used: e.g. Reconciliation/Confession; Anointing of the Sick/Last Rites.  I don't recall any one having predominance though.           
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« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2009, 12:24:41 AM »

In addition to what "Thomas" indicated in Reply #12, I am not sure which ones, but if a priest has good reason to believe someone is dying, I think there are psalms that are read.  I'm not sure if there is anything else service related, perhaps the Trisagion prayers, "Heavenly King and Comforter, etc."  I've also been told, a priest must not serve Holy Communion to someone who is unconscious.
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