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Jonny
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« on: January 10, 2009, 11:28:21 AM »

Why did you leave?

I know there is likely to be a whole host of little issues as to why but given that there are a few of us here who are walking/have walked this path it might be useful to pool together what we think the problems are with Roman Catholicism and how the Orthodox Church overcomes them.

It would also be useful to know what Roman Catholic practices you still hold on to or what you think the Orthodox can learn from the Roman Church.


I'm not intending this thread to be polemical and it is on the convert forum so I'm hoping not so much for a load of attacks on the Catholic Church but more a sharing of heartfelt convictions which don't need a six post theological justification tagged onto them. This is about us sharing our journeys and helping each other. Not about having an argument.
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« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2009, 11:36:45 AM »

Why did you leave?

Grace and Peace Brother Jonny,

Why did I leave... I guess the shortest answer would be to save my sanity. I found within the little community of Orthodox Christians solace and healing. The antiquity and continuity within Holy Orthodoxy was a salve for the complexity and contradictory of the Western Churches. Is this what you were looking for?
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« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2009, 11:43:46 AM »

I had a whole host of issues with Roman Catholicism before I started looking into Orthodoxy. Now I have even more.

However the reason I first started looking was to do with the Catholic Mass.

I'm a firm believer that Liturgy should lift us up to God. That every word of a liturgy should be sung and that it should be as colourful as possible and that it should flow. That I suppose was the key for me, liturgy should flow and it shouldn't be a distraction but more like a gentile breeze that lifts you up and carries you along with it. I also firmly believe that the Priest should lead the congregation in worship, not simply face towards them and do the whole thing whilst the majority of the congregation has a nap or just watches passively. Hence I'm not a fan of the Priest facing towards the congregation.

Also I do pray in a very touchy feely way. I need to have paintings and statues (or now Icons) around me to spark my prayers and to draw me further into the mysteries I'm encountering. Well sung music lifts me up as well and I've not found a Catholic parish yet with a good choir. Probably because everything is overcomplicated either by an organ and a lot of people or by guitars and drums (which I loath!!! not in Church!!!!!) but the Orthodox sometimes just have one person with a decent voice and nothing around him/her to cause distraction. No instruments. I find I can hear the words then and the person sings well and I'm lifted up.


I suppose its probably worth mentioning as well that I've never been a fan of the Pope either. The institution rather than the person that is. I've always thought the Church should be run as a loose communion with the Pope chairing councils, sorting out disputes and generally having a 'first amongst equals' pastoral role rather than reigning like a king from on high.


The liturgy is what got to me in the end. I no longer felt God in the Catholic Church and I eventually didn't even feel as if I was spiritually in the right place to take communion any more. I can't go to the Altar having not really prayed and prepared and having so many little arguments going on in my head about the liturgy I was in. So now I'm attending a ROCOR Divine Liturgy whenever I can (maybe twice a month) and continuing to do all the jobs I've taken on over the years in my Catholic parish until other people come forward and free me from them.


Having opened my eyes I know see problems everywhere and quite frankly I'm a bit lost. I'm not Orthodox but I'm really not Catholic any more either. I can't in good conscience take communion in the Catholic Church but at the same time I don't know anything really about the Orthodox and there are so many alien things in the tradition when it comes to my western mind.
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« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2009, 11:51:37 AM »

I had a whole host of issues with Roman Catholicism before I started looking into Orthodoxy. Now I have even more.

However the reason I first started looking was to do with the Catholic Mass.

I'm a firm believer that Liturgy should lift us up to God. That every word of a liturgy should be sung and that it should be as colourful as possible and that it should flow. That I suppose was the key for me, liturgy should flow and it shouldn't be a distraction but more like a gentile breeze that lifts you up and carries you along with it. I also firmly believe that the Priest should lead the congregation in worship, not simply face towards them and do the whole thing whilst the majority of the congregation has a nap or just watches passively. Hence I'm not a fan of the Priest facing towards the congregation.

Also I do pray in a very touchy feely way. I need to have paintings and statues (or now Icons) around me to spark my prayers and to draw me further into the mysteries I'm encountering. Well sung music lifts me up as well and I've not found a Catholic parish yet with a good choir. Probably because everything is overcomplicated either by an organ and a lot of people or by guitars and drums (which I loath!!! not in Church!!!!!) but the Orthodox sometimes just have one person with a decent voice and nothing around him/her to cause distraction. No instruments. I find I can hear the words then and the person sings well and I'm lifted up.


I suppose its probably worth mentioning as well that I've never been a fan of the Pope either. The institution rather than the person that is. I've always thought the Church should be run as a loose communion with the Pope chairing councils, sorting out disputes and generally having a 'first amongst equals' pastoral role rather than reigning like a king from on high.


The liturgy is what got to me in the end. I no longer felt God in the Catholic Church and I eventually didn't even feel as if I was spiritually in the right place to take communion any more. I can't go to the Altar having not really prayed and prepared and having so many little arguments going on in my head about the liturgy I was in. So now I'm attending a ROCOR Divine Liturgy whenever I can (maybe twice a month) and continuing to do all the jobs I've taken on over the years in my Catholic parish until other people come forward and free me from them.


Having opened my eyes I know see problems everywhere and quite frankly I'm a bit lost. I'm not Orthodox but I'm really not Catholic any more either. I can't in good conscience take communion in the Catholic Church but at the same time I don't know anything really about the Orthodox and there are so many alien things in the tradition when it comes to my western mind.

From my brief encounter with you I don't believe you were ever truly Roman Catholic... you weren't catechized into the Faith of the Roman Church. My suggestion to you would be cease to be concerned with what you feel the Roman Catholic Church is not and be more concerned with what Holy Orthodoxy is.

There are far too many individuals entering Orthodox because of what they feel something else is not and too few entering Orthodox for it is. In my opinion, this is a real problem and we will not make any progress into the balm of healing in Holy Orthodoxy until we can let go and forgive others for what they aren't.
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« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2009, 11:56:39 AM »


From my brief encounter with you I don't believe you were ever truly Roman Catholic... you weren't catechized into the Faith of the Roman Church. My suggestion to you would be cease to be concerned with what you feel the Roman Catholic Church is not and be more concerned with what Holy Orthodoxy is.

There are far too many individuals entering Orthodox because of what they feel something else is not and too few entering Orthodox for it is. In my opinion, this is a real problem and we will not make any progress into the balm of healing in Holy Orthodoxy until we can let go and forgive others for what they aren't.

I think you may be right. I suppose my worry is that I joined the Roman Church because I made it what I wanted it to be inside of my own mind and I've kept up that illusion in my own head for three years. I just don't want to do the same thing with Orthodoxy, decide what it is in my head and then blindly join. But then again I'm not comfortable with the idea of being in no communion for the next two to three years whilst I make up my mind!
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« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2009, 12:05:04 PM »


From my brief encounter with you I don't believe you were ever truly Roman Catholic... you weren't catechized into the Faith of the Roman Church. My suggestion to you would be cease to be concerned with what you feel the Roman Catholic Church is not and be more concerned with what Holy Orthodoxy is.

There are far too many individuals entering Orthodox because of what they feel something else is not and too few entering Orthodox for it is. In my opinion, this is a real problem and we will not make any progress into the balm of healing in Holy Orthodoxy until we can let go and forgive others for what they aren't.

I think you may be right. I suppose my worry is that I joined the Roman Church because I made it what I wanted it to be inside of my own mind and I've kept up that illusion in my own head for three years. I just don't want to do the same thing with Orthodoxy, decide what it is in my head and then blindly join. But then again I'm not comfortable with the idea of being in no communion for the next two to three years whilst I make up my mind!

I understand. I did the same thing. I found myself more devoted to the Classic Catholic Faith than anyone in the Roman Catholic Church and ultimately found that I couldn't find the Roman Catholic Church. I was a church of one. Part of this was the liberalism of Catholicism and part my own intemperate zeal but we have to let that all go as well we open ourselves to the balm of healing within Holy Orthodoxy. My suggestion to you is 'find a spiritual father sooner than later'. Talk to your Parish Priest and and tell him your concerns and I feel confident that he'll guide you to help. You'll need a spiritual father to control your 'convert zeal'.
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« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2009, 12:08:13 PM »


From my brief encounter with you I don't believe you were ever truly Roman Catholic... you weren't catechized into the Faith of the Roman Church. My suggestion to you would be cease to be concerned with what you feel the Roman Catholic Church is not and be more concerned with what Holy Orthodoxy is.

There are far too many individuals entering Orthodox because of what they feel something else is not and too few entering Orthodox for it is. In my opinion, this is a real problem and we will not make any progress into the balm of healing in Holy Orthodoxy until we can let go and forgive others for what they aren't.

I think you may be right. I suppose my worry is that I joined the Roman Church because I made it what I wanted it to be inside of my own mind and I've kept up that illusion in my own head for three years. I just don't want to do the same thing with Orthodoxy, decide what it is in my head and then blindly join. But then again I'm not comfortable with the idea of being in no communion for the next two to three years whilst I make up my mind!

I understand. I did the same thing. I found myself more devoted to the Classic Catholic Faith than anyone in the Roman Catholic Church and ultimately found that I couldn't find the Roman Catholic Church. I was a church of one. Part of this was the liberalism of Catholicism and part my own intemperate zeal but we have to let that all go as well we open ourselves to the balm of healing within Holy Orthodoxy. My suggestion to you is 'find a spiritual father sooner than later'. Talk to your Parish Priest and and tell him your concerns and I feel confident that he'll guide you to help. You'll need a spiritual father to control your 'convert zeal'.

A spiritual father is probably a very good idea. My girlfriend (cradle Catholic but also disallusioned) calls it convertitus. I'll have a chat with the Priest at the Parish when I get along next (got commitments with the Catholics this weekend).
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« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2009, 10:58:03 PM »

I think you may be right. I suppose my worry is that I joined the Roman Church because I made it what I wanted it to be inside of my own mind and I've kept up that illusion in my own head for three years. I just don't want to do the same thing with Orthodoxy, decide what it is in my head and then blindly join. But then again I'm not comfortable with the idea of being in no communion for the next two to three years whilst I make up my mind!

You know, in a way, I really envy you because you will have not problem disavowing the doctrines and Dogmas of the Roman Church when you are received into Holy Orthodoxy. Consider yourself fortunate my friend.
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« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2009, 11:21:50 PM »

I don't know if there is a parish near you, but have you checked out a Western Rite Orthodox parish? This may be easier for you digest culturally, but still satisfy what you are seeking theologically.

http://www.westernorthodox.com/

May God bless you on your journey.
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« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2009, 11:44:03 PM »

I don't know if there is a parish near you, but have you checked out a Western Rite Orthodox parish? This may be easier for you digest culturally, but still satisfy what you are seeking theologically.

http://www.westernorthodox.com/

May God bless you on your journey.

Thank you for your concern. I will look into it. Peace.
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« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2009, 10:56:07 AM »

I don't know if there is a parish near you, but have you checked out a Western Rite Orthodox parish? This may be easier for you digest culturally, but still satisfy what you are seeking theologically.

http://www.westernorthodox.com/

May God bless you on your journey.

Thanks for this. Unfortunately there aren't any in England as far as I can see. Intellectually I love the eastern rite anyway and I'm sure it won't take long to adjust to it spiritually.
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« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2009, 11:43:30 AM »

Why did you leave?

I know there is likely to be a whole host of little issues as to why but given that there are a few of us here who are walking/have walked this path it might be useful to pool together what we think the problems are with Roman Catholicism and how the Orthodox Church overcomes them.

It would also be useful to know what Roman Catholic practices you still hold on to or what you think the Orthodox can learn from the Roman Church.


I'm not intending this thread to be polemical and it is on the convert forum so I'm hoping not so much for a load of attacks on the Catholic Church but more a sharing of heartfelt convictions which don't need a six post theological justification tagged onto them. This is about us sharing our journeys and helping each other. Not about having an argument.

I grew up Catholic, attending Sunday Mass.  But I didn't really care much about the Catholic faith until late high school.  I read a Bible and decided to be active in my faith.  Since I grew up Catholic, and thought Protestants as disobedient, I grew closer to the church in which I grew up.  I read up on Catholicism and on Church history, where I began coming to a knowledge of Orthodoxy.  I liked what I read about Orthodox, but I thought them schismatics because they were not in communion with Rome (the psychology of "being under Rome"/"being Catholic" is strong).  At one point, I started attending a Ruthenian Catholic Church.  I learned more about Eastern theology and understandings.  At one point, I felt that I had to choose between changing churches (change of sui iurus church) and becoming Orthodox.  I didn't believe in universal jurisdiction, papal infallibility, Purgatory, etc., so I felt that I had to choose the latter.  The greatest difficulty, however, was overcoming the "Rome alone" wall. 

One thing I like about Orthodoxy is that faith and worship cannot be separated.  Lex orandi lex credendi (the law of prayer is the law of belief) is very much a reality in Orthodoxy as it should be.  Roman Catholics believe that the Pope is the infallible glue that holds everything together; but they do not consider, as do the Orthodox, that even the Pope of Rome can fall into heresy.                   
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« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2009, 12:00:40 PM »

I grew up Catholic, attending Sunday Mass.  But I didn't really care much about the Catholic faith until late high school.  I read a Bible and decided to be active in my faith.  Since I grew up Catholic, and thought Protestants as disobedient, I grew closer to the church in which I grew up.  I read up on Catholicism and on Church history, where I began coming to a knowledge of Orthodoxy.  I liked what I read about Orthodox, but I thought them schismatics because they were not in communion with Rome (the psychology of "being under Rome"/"being Catholic" is strong).  At one point, I started attending a Ruthenian Catholic Church.  I learned more about Eastern theology and understandings.  At one point, I felt that I had to choose between changing churches (change of sui iurus church) and becoming Orthodox.  I didn't believe in universal jurisdiction, papal infallibility, Purgatory, etc., so I felt that I had to choose the latter.  The greatest difficulty, however, was overcoming the "Rome alone" wall. 

One thing I like about Orthodoxy is that faith and worship cannot be separated.  Lex orandi lex credendi (the law of prayer is the law of belief) is very much a reality in Orthodoxy as it should be.  Roman Catholics believe that the Pope is the infallible glue that holds everything together; but they do not consider, as do the Orthodox, that even the Pope of Rome can fall into heresy.                   

I would echo the above, only changing that I was very active in my church growing up and fell away only during college.  I returned to the fold a few years after graduation thanks in large part to the questions of an ex-girlfriend who was interested in Catholicism.  I ended up in a Ruthenian church like StGeorge here and the rest is much the same.

His description of strength of the psychology of being in communion with Rome is spot on, too.

And yes, this is my first public declaration of my becoming Orthodox.  Some of you already know directly, and the more observant would have noticed my change in church/jurisdiction on the sidebar to my posts. 
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« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2009, 06:53:55 PM »

Grace and Peace,

I truly adore Eastern Orthodoxy but I have a really hard time enjoying it with the attitudes of so many Orthodox on Forums and emails who are so smug and rude toward non-Orthodox. It's like Traditional Catholics on crack...

I really like my Parish Priest here where I live but if I entered into Catechumanate I would not be able to attend my daughters CCD classes and attend our Catholic Parish. My wife and daughter are simply not ready to make the leap. It's a burden I guess but until then I'm just going to have to be in limbo... (Catholic Pun intended  laugh)
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« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2009, 07:01:53 PM »

Grace and Peace,

I truly adore Eastern Orthodoxy but I have a really hard time enjoying it with the attitudes of so many Orthodox on Forums and emails who are so smug and rude toward non-Orthodox. It's like Traditional Catholics on crack...

I really like my Parish Priest here where I live but if I entered into Catechumanate I would not be able to attend my daughters CCD classes and attend our Catholic Parish. My wife and daughter are simply not ready to make the leap. It's a burden I guess but until then I'm just going to have to be in limbo... (Catholic Pun intended  laugh)

Can't persuade them to go to a Byzantine Catholic church I suppose?  It's a good transition.  Wink
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« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2009, 07:08:19 PM »

Grace and Peace,

I truly adore Eastern Orthodoxy but I have a really hard time enjoying it with the attitudes of so many Orthodox on Forums and emails who are so smug and rude toward non-Orthodox. It's like Traditional Catholics on crack...

I really like my Parish Priest here where I live but if I entered into Catechumanate I would not be able to attend my daughters CCD classes and attend our Catholic Parish. My wife and daughter are simply not ready to make the leap. It's a burden I guess but until then I'm just going to have to be in limbo... (Catholic Pun intended  laugh)

Please ignore the internet, don't base life on people on the internet Smiley  And there are some certain truths about Roman Catholicism that you can't see until the Roman goggles come off.  Until your head can be cleared and you can see without the blinders on anything that is said about the Roman Catholic Church by a non-Roman Catholic will still seem offensive.  Even if an Orthodox person is just merely stating a position of the church and saying "roman catholics believe different" it may hurt.  But when you can see the big picture and see Rome like you've never seen it before it'll make sense.  You know how we were taught as Roman Catholics that it was Rome's way or the highway, we weren't allowed to worship with non-Roman Catholics unless you had to go to a funeral or wedding, ie, anything non Roman Catholic was taboo.... so when an Orthodox person says something you may get upset because you were taught that any outsiders opinion didn't matter if they weren't Roman Catholic.  We were taught that any position that wasn't Rome's was wrong, including the Orthodox position.  So getting passed that is hard.  Seeing it from a whole new level that you couldn't see it from before takes a lot of time and understanding.  I've seen people that have been Orthodox for years still get upset when someone says a truth about Roman Catholicism from the Orthodox position.  Give it time and don't let people on the internet get to you.   
As for your family situation, please get the advice of your Eastern Orthodox priest.
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« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2009, 08:54:03 PM »


And yes, this is my first public declaration of my becoming Orthodox.  Some of you already know directly, and the more observant would have noticed my change in church/jurisdiction on the sidebar to my posts. 

But why the leap from Eastern Catholic to Orthodox?
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« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2009, 09:04:05 PM »

I grew up Catholic, attending Sunday Mass.  But I didn't really care much about the Catholic faith until late high school.  I read a Bible and decided to be active in my faith.  Since I grew up Catholic, and thought Protestants as disobedient, I grew closer to the church in which I grew up.  I read up on Catholicism and on Church history, where I began coming to a knowledge of Orthodoxy.  I liked what I read about Orthodox, but I thought them schismatics because they were not in communion with Rome (the psychology of "being under Rome"/"being Catholic" is strong).  At one point, I started attending a Ruthenian Catholic Church.  I learned more about Eastern theology and understandings.  At one point, I felt that I had to choose between changing churches (change of sui iurus church) and becoming Orthodox.  I didn't believe in universal jurisdiction, papal infallibility, Purgatory, etc., so I felt that I had to choose the latter.  The greatest difficulty, however, was overcoming the "Rome alone" wall. 

One thing I like about Orthodoxy is that faith and worship cannot be separated.  Lex orandi lex credendi (the law of prayer is the law of belief) is very much a reality in Orthodoxy as it should be.  Roman Catholics believe that the Pope is the infallible glue that holds everything together; but they do not consider, as do the Orthodox, that even the Pope of Rome can fall into heresy.                   

I would echo the above, only changing that I was very active in my church growing up and fell away only during college.  I returned to the fold a few years after graduation thanks in large part to the questions of an ex-girlfriend who was interested in Catholicism.  I ended up in a Ruthenian church like StGeorge here and the rest is much the same.

His description of strength of the psychology of being in communion with Rome is spot on, too.

And yes, this is my first public declaration of my becoming Orthodox.  Some of you already know directly, and the more observant would have noticed my change in church/jurisdiction on the sidebar to my posts. 


Many Years! Congratulations!!!!
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« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2009, 09:20:44 PM »

Please ignore the internet, don't base life on people on the internet Smiley  And there are some certain truths about Roman Catholicism that you can't see until the Roman goggles come off.  Until your head can be cleared and you can see without the blinders on anything that is said about the Roman Catholic Church by a non-Roman Catholic will still seem offensive.  Even if an Orthodox person is just merely stating a position of the church and saying "roman catholics believe different" it may hurt.  But when you can see the big picture and see Rome like you've never seen it before it'll make sense.  You know how we were taught as Roman Catholics that it was Rome's way or the highway, we weren't allowed to worship with non-Roman Catholics unless you had to go to a funeral or wedding, ie, anything non Roman Catholic was taboo.... so when an Orthodox person says something you may get upset because you were taught that any outsiders opinion didn't matter if they weren't Roman Catholic.  We were taught that any position that wasn't Rome's was wrong, including the Orthodox position.  So getting passed that is hard.  Seeing it from a whole new level that you couldn't see it from before takes a lot of time and understanding.  I've seen people that have been Orthodox for years still get upset when someone says a truth about Roman Catholicism from the Orthodox position.  Give it time and don't let people on the internet get to you.   
As for your family situation, please get the advice of your Eastern Orthodox priest.

Grace and Peace,

Yes this is all very good advice. Thank you for offering it. My Orthodox Parish Priest simply asks me to keep attending every Vespers and Liturgical Service that I am able and to take my time and be patient. Some times it's confusing and challenging to attend Vespers and Great Vespers and then go to my Catholic Mass on Sundays with my Family. I take my daughter with me to Great Vespers but my wife doesn't go. Because of school I am unable to take my daughter with me to Wednesday night Vespers. It is too late and my wife takes her to CCD on Wednesday nights to my surprise. She likes our Catholic Parish and she likes our Daughter going there. Her Aunt and Uncle attend our Catholic Parish.

But yes it is challenging to hear people speak badly about the Roman Church even if it has strayed. It doesn't change how I feel about the Roman Church. Yes I've been very disappointed in her over the years but I always tried to be devout myself for the sake of the Church. Walking away is tough because you've taken Sacred Vows and tried so hard to help but I fear it may be too late for her.  Cry
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St Basil the Great (330-379 A.D.): “I think then that the one goal of all who are really and truly serving the Lord ought to be to bring back to union the churches who have at different times and in diverse manners divided from one another.”
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« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2009, 09:36:50 PM »

I grew up Catholic, attending Sunday Mass.  But I didn't really care much about the Catholic faith until late high school.  I read a Bible and decided to be active in my faith.  Since I grew up Catholic, and thought Protestants as disobedient, I grew closer to the church in which I grew up.  I read up on Catholicism and on Church history, where I began coming to a knowledge of Orthodoxy.  I liked what I read about Orthodox, but I thought them schismatics because they were not in communion with Rome (the psychology of "being under Rome"/"being Catholic" is strong).  At one point, I started attending a Ruthenian Catholic Church.  I learned more about Eastern theology and understandings.  At one point, I felt that I had to choose between changing churches (change of sui iurus church) and becoming Orthodox.  I didn't believe in universal jurisdiction, papal infallibility, Purgatory, etc., so I felt that I had to choose the latter.  The greatest difficulty, however, was overcoming the "Rome alone" wall. 

One thing I like about Orthodoxy is that faith and worship cannot be separated.  Lex orandi lex credendi (the law of prayer is the law of belief) is very much a reality in Orthodoxy as it should be.  Roman Catholics believe that the Pope is the infallible glue that holds everything together; but they do not consider, as do the Orthodox, that even the Pope of Rome can fall into heresy.                   

I could have written this word for word about myself. The "Rome alone" wall is strong indeed.
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« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2009, 10:06:38 PM »

I had a whole host of issues with Roman Catholicism before I started looking into Orthodoxy. Now I have even more.

However the reason I first started looking was to do with the Catholic Mass.

I'm a firm believer that Liturgy should lift us up to God. That every word of a liturgy should be sung and that it should be as colourful as possible and that it should flow. That I suppose was the key for me, liturgy should flow and it shouldn't be a distraction but more like a gentile breeze that lifts you up and carries you along with it. I also firmly believe that the Priest should lead the congregation in worship, not simply face towards them and do the whole thing whilst the majority of the congregation has a nap or just watches passively. Hence I'm not a fan of the Priest facing towards the congregation.

Also I do pray in a very touchy feely way. I need to have paintings and statues (or now Icons) around me to spark my prayers and to draw me further into the mysteries I'm encountering. Well sung music lifts me up as well and I've not found a Catholic parish yet with a good choir. Probably because everything is overcomplicated either by an organ and a lot of people or by guitars and drums (which I loath!!! not in Church!!!!!) but the Orthodox sometimes just have one person with a decent voice and nothing around him/her to cause distraction. No instruments. I find I can hear the words then and the person sings well and I'm lifted up.


I suppose its probably worth mentioning as well that I've never been a fan of the Pope either. The institution rather than the person that is. I've always thought the Church should be run as a loose communion with the Pope chairing councils, sorting out disputes and generally having a 'first amongst equals' pastoral role rather than reigning like a king from on high.


The liturgy is what got to me in the end. I no longer felt God in the Catholic Church and I eventually didn't even feel as if I was spiritually in the right place to take communion any more. I can't go to the Altar having not really prayed and prepared and having so many little arguments going on in my head about the liturgy I was in. So now I'm attending a ROCOR Divine Liturgy whenever I can (maybe twice a month) and continuing to do all the jobs I've taken on over the years in my Catholic parish until other people come forward and free me from them.


Having opened my eyes I know see problems everywhere and quite frankly I'm a bit lost. I'm not Orthodox but I'm really not Catholic any more either. I can't in good conscience take communion in the Catholic Church but at the same time I don't know anything really about the Orthodox and there are so many alien things in the tradition when it comes to my western mind.
Have you thought of WRO?'
Some sites speaking of British Western Rite missions
http://westernorthodox.blogspot.com/2008/08/from-mailbag-western-rite-missions-in.html
http://www.orthodoxresurgence.com/petroc/
http://www.orthodoxresurgence.com/
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« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2009, 10:02:48 AM »

Schultz , Let me welcome you home to the Orthodox Church!  I have enjoyed your posts over the years and have seen your movement towards the church as you grew in the faith.  May I wish you Manay Years on your illumination.

Thomas
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« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2009, 11:04:47 AM »


But why the leap from Eastern Catholic to Orthodox?

From StGeorge's post, which I gave my proverbial rubber stamp to, with a few amendments:

I didn't believe in universal jurisdiction, papal infallibility ... so I felt that I had to choose the latter.

If I cannot accept Roman supremacy, I cannot in good conscience continue to receive communion in any Catholic church.  Period.



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« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2009, 01:20:59 PM »

I left for liturgical reasons. I disagreed with so many of the Roman Catholic Church's beliefs and practices that it seriously hampered my ability to commune with God. Four main liturgical practices that I disagree with include the priest facing the Congregation, the barring of infants and children from receiving the Body and Blood of Christ, Purgatory and the Immaculate Conception. I feel that the priest should face God with us, to help lead the way into the Truth that is the Orthodox Church. I felt it was hypocrisy to say that, through Baptism, our children are a part of our Christian Community....but not enough to participate in the Supper? Huh Our souls from birth to death are constantly open to God's enlightenment. If we use the excuse that infants and children don't understand the significance of the Eucharist and the Wine, aren't we judging? How do we know that God isn't working an understanding in someone's child? Who are we to say that this level or that level of understanding is enough to participate?
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« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2009, 01:44:33 PM »

And yes, this is my first public declaration of my becoming Orthodox.  Some of you already know directly, and the more observant would have noticed my change in church/jurisdiction on the sidebar to my posts. 

I am very happy to hear this. Congratulations. Welcome home. Many Years!  Smiley
« Last Edit: February 11, 2009, 01:44:53 PM by Heorhij » Logged

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« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2009, 01:01:50 AM »

Since there are here many converts to Orthodoxy from Roman Catholicism...

What is it like (for those whom it concerns) going from "cradle" Catholic to "convert" Orthodox? 

Before I write more, I'd be interested in hearing what others have to write.   
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