OrthodoxChristianity.net
December 20, 2014, 03:18:48 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Orthodox Church Architecture...  (Read 6573 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
88Devin12
Warned
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antioch
Posts: 4,998



« on: January 09, 2009, 03:21:06 PM »

As an architecture student, i've become more and more interested and in love with Orthodox Church Architecture. It'd be nice if I could one day design Orthodox Churches regularly. Right now I'm working on a project involving an Orthodox Church.

What I would like to know is... What are some traditional Orthodox Architectural elements/features? What "must" go into an Orthodox building? What is optional?

What do you like most in Orthodox buildings? What have been some of your best memories from them?
What do you like least (if anything) about the Churches? What are some of your worst memories?

lastly, what is some of the symbolism involved in different aspects of church architecture?

Thank you!
Logged
Heorhij
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOA, for now, but my heart belongs to the Ukrainian Orthodox Church
Posts: 8,576



WWW
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2009, 03:35:36 PM »

This could be helpful:

http://www.goarch.org/ourfaith/ourfaith8025
Logged

Love never fails.
scamandrius
Crusher of Secrets; House Lannister
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: I'm Greek and proud of it, damn it!
Posts: 6,279



« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2009, 04:10:45 PM »

What "must" go into an Orthodox building?

A dome!  I can't tell you how much I abhor that my parish doesn't have a dome with an icon of the Pantocrator.  Not only do the churches that have it benefit from the beauty of it, but are enriched because of the harmonic elements it brings out.  The dome magnifies the voices and concentrates them in such a way that everything said or sung becomes more spiritually enriched.

The theological significance of the dome is that it represents Christ coming down to us, his emptying of his self to become incarnate in the flesh.  That is a radical deviation from the Protestant steeple which symbolizes the idea of man going to God.
Logged

I seek the truth by which no man was ever harmed--Marcus Aurelius

Those who do not read  history are doomed to get their facts from Hollywood--Anonymous

What earthly joy remains untouched by grief?--St. John Damascene
88Devin12
Warned
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antioch
Posts: 4,998



« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2009, 05:08:50 PM »

Also, I forgot, as a side note, i've been working with architects I know that are helping me with this project. One has been really helpful, but has been trying to explain that some things with my current designs aren't as practical because of the heating/cooling of the space and because of the form (that is, he believes it's out of proportion), however I haven't been able to explain to him that many of these things i'm including have a theological meaning that is important.

If I can, I'll try to include images of the building i'm designing to get some feedback on here, it'd be nice to get some non-architects that are also Orthodox to give feedback. (since architects often judge buildings differently than everyday people)
Logged
Elisha
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 4,464


« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2009, 06:45:29 PM »

Actually, I think domes are optional - just that many choose that option.   Smiley  I think what is necessary is a Nave (shaped like the nave/hull of a ship), Narthex and Sanctuary (walled off by the iconstasis).  In the basilica design of a church though, it is preferable have the building cross-shaped.  It should face east as well (most Orthodox churches do, although the church where St. John of Shanghai reposes does not).

Try these guys if you don't already know them:
http://www.newworldbyzantine.com/about_us/
http://www.cjkdesign.com/

Logged
88Devin12
Warned
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antioch
Posts: 4,998



« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2009, 09:13:14 PM »

A couple designs I've come up with... The architect doesn't really like the one of the left (or at least thinks the form/proportion is off):




Feedback? Suggestions?
« Last Edit: January 09, 2009, 09:14:08 PM by 88Devin12 » Logged
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 33,153


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2009, 09:31:56 PM »

A couple designs I've come up with... The architect doesn't really like the one of the left (or at least thinks the form/proportion is off):




Feedback? Suggestions?
Yeah.  What's the link got to do with anything?
Logged
88Devin12
Warned
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antioch
Posts: 4,998



« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2009, 10:37:51 PM »

For some reason Imageshack wouldn't let me simply use the IMG tags w/ the URL so I had to use the Forum Link option...
Logged
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 20,146


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2009, 10:48:31 AM »

Actually, I think domes are optional - just that many choose that option.   Smiley  I think what is necessary is a Nave (shaped like the nave/hull of a ship), Narthex and Sanctuary (walled off by the iconstasis).  In the basilica design of a church though, it is preferable have the building cross-shaped.  It should face east as well (most Orthodox churches do, although the church where St. John of Shanghai reposes does not).

Indeed - our first- through third-century brethren would be so dismayed to find out that a dome is necessary for worship! Wink jk.

I would agree: Narthex, Nave, Sanctuary are the necessary elements, and facing Eastward is strongly preferred.

A couple designs I've come up with... The architect doesn't really like the one of the left (or at least thinks the form/proportion is off):

I will say that you should try to design the Church to utilize natural light as much as possible; especially if you're going with a multi-onion-dome look.  One of the marvels of the ancient Churches is that they needed little candle-light because their windows and light-collection were designed so well.
Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
Αριστοκλής
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese
Posts: 10,026


« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2009, 11:13:29 AM »

One might want to peruse the content here:

http://www.byzantium1200.com/contents.html

especially:
http://www.byzantium1200.com/hagia.html
Logged

"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides
mike
Warned
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,536


« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2009, 12:33:36 PM »

I think that right-side project is better, because it's narthex looks better (thinner and taller). Oddly it doesn't have windows, but maybe You just didn't want to loose time to draw them. IMHO it would look better without this extra rooms from the both sides o narthex. The things I like most are domes - their colors are totally awesome Smiley
Logged
Elisha
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 4,464


« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2009, 02:56:25 PM »

Actually, I think domes are optional - just that many choose that option.   Smiley  I think what is necessary is a Nave (shaped like the nave/hull of a ship), Narthex and Sanctuary (walled off by the iconstasis).  In the basilica design of a church though, it is preferable have the building cross-shaped.  It should face east as well (most Orthodox churches do, although the church where St. John of Shanghai reposes does not).

Indeed - our first- through third-century brethren would be so dismayed to find out that a dome is necessary for worship! Wink jk.

I would agree: Narthex, Nave, Sanctuary are the necessary elements, and facing Eastward is strongly preferred.

I've heard Fr. Patrick Doolan's church tours too many times, along with the history of the architectural battles of my parish to not pick these things up.
Logged
88Devin12
Warned
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antioch
Posts: 4,998



« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2009, 03:25:51 PM »

The problem is, with the IBC (International Building Codes), you have to have bathrooms. This building is meant to be designed for 250 people.

The other problem is that by code, there is only 5 sq. ft. per person for standing room, however going by that, the building would be smaller than the current one.

So by code, the building is bigger than the actual intended occupancy, so the bathrooms have to be somewhat big, especially for women.

I would have it just be the narthex, but the two additional "wings" to the first space are the bathrooms plus elevator/stairs for the basement. (as an elevator is required if there is a basement).
Logged
Elisha
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 4,464


« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2009, 06:36:28 PM »

The problem is, with the IBC (International Building Codes), you have to have bathrooms. This building is meant to be designed for 250 people.

The other problem is that by code, there is only 5 sq. ft. per person for standing room, however going by that, the building would be smaller than the current one.

So by code, the building is bigger than the actual intended occupancy, so the bathrooms have to be somewhat big, especially for women.

I would have it just be the narthex, but the two additional "wings" to the first space are the bathrooms plus elevator/stairs for the basement. (as an elevator is required if there is a basement).

When were these codes effective?  My church (built 1996) doesn't have any plumbing except for a small sink behind the altar.  The Holy Virgin Mary Cathedral in SF doesn't have elevators, but it was built in the 60's I think.
Logged
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 33,153


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2009, 07:29:17 PM »

The problem is, with the IBC (International Building Codes), you have to have bathrooms. This building is meant to be designed for 250 people.

The other problem is that by code, there is only 5 sq. ft. per person for standing room, however going by that, the building would be smaller than the current one.

So by code, the building is bigger than the actual intended occupancy, so the bathrooms have to be somewhat big, especially for women.

I would have it just be the narthex, but the two additional "wings" to the first space are the bathrooms plus elevator/stairs for the basement. (as an elevator is required if there is a basement).

When were these codes effective?  My church (built 1996) doesn't have any plumbing except for a small sink behind the altar.  The Holy Virgin Mary Cathedral in SF doesn't have elevators, but it was built in the 60's I think.
I think there's also something within many Orthodox church building codes that prohibits the building of restroom facilities inside the church temple itself.  As long as there are restrooms present on the property (parish hall?), most civil authorities will grant an exception to this part of their building codes for such parishes.  (I know this because my church was granted just such an exception.)
Logged
Elisha
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 4,464


« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2009, 07:51:23 PM »

The problem is, with the IBC (International Building Codes), you have to have bathrooms. This building is meant to be designed for 250 people.

The other problem is that by code, there is only 5 sq. ft. per person for standing room, however going by that, the building would be smaller than the current one.

So by code, the building is bigger than the actual intended occupancy, so the bathrooms have to be somewhat big, especially for women.

I would have it just be the narthex, but the two additional "wings" to the first space are the bathrooms plus elevator/stairs for the basement. (as an elevator is required if there is a basement).

When were these codes effective?  My church (built 1996) doesn't have any plumbing except for a small sink behind the altar.  The Holy Virgin Mary Cathedral in SF doesn't have elevators, but it was built in the 60's I think.
I think there's also something within many Orthodox church building codes that prohibits the building of restroom facilities inside the church temple itself.  As long as there are restrooms present on the property (parish hall?), most civil authorities will grant an exception to this part of their building codes for such parishes.  (I know this because my church was granted just such an exception.)
Thanks.  I thought so.
Logged
88Devin12
Warned
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antioch
Posts: 4,998



« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2009, 10:14:09 PM »

I just read that the city/county the project is in is on the 2006 version which is what this version is. I'm not sure about seperate facilities, from my understanding the existing building will still be used for other purposes. (bookstore, offices, bathrooms, social hall, kitchen etc...)
Unfortunately the architects I work with are at Cancun until Tuesday :|...

The first edition of the IBC came out in 1997 and is updated every 3 years i think.

The code states that for A-3 occupancy under worship it says there is to be:
Waterclosets - 1 per 150 men, 1 per 75 women
Lavatories - 1 per 200 men/women
1 service sink period.

For assembly without fixed seats there are to be:
7 sq. ft. per person (Concentrated - chairs only)
5 net (Standing Space)
15 net (Unconcentrated - tables and chairs)

However, going by that, the space the church has now fit 150 people in it at Pascha while being somewhat tight, however according to code, the standing room for 250 people is smaller than the current nave.

« Last Edit: January 10, 2009, 10:36:29 PM by 88Devin12 » Logged
HandmaidenofGod
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the USA (Ecumenical Patriarch)
Posts: 3,397


O Holy St. Demetrius pray to God for us!


« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2009, 11:50:09 PM »

I like the design on the right, however as another poster mentioned, you definitely need windows. :-)

The buildings seem to have more of a Russian feel to them than Byzantine. If that's the case, stained glass windows would be lovely.  Smiley

I'm not sure about the whole bathroom statement, as the parish I grew up in had the bathrooms in the basement of the church, and my current parish has bathrooms in another wing of the church building.

Make sure the grounds are landscaped in such a way that they are "procession friendly" for Pascha. (i.e. even, level ground, a sidewalk going around the perimeter of the building perhaps, no shrubs in the way, etc.)

I hope this is a pew-free church. (Maybe just a few around the perimeter for the elderly, pregnant, etc.)

Have you looked online for pictures of Orthodox Churches in Europe? They should be your inspriation rather than some of the modern comglomerates we have in the U.S. Also, have you spoken to the iconographer for his plans/wishes for the building?



Logged

"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jer 29:11
88Devin12
Warned
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antioch
Posts: 4,998



« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2009, 12:03:33 AM »

Right now I've mainly talked to a couple parishiners and our Priest.

Yes it will be pew-free save for chairs on the outside perimeter.

How much money does it cost to build most Orthodox Churches?

Also as for windows, one of the criticisms of the architect was that the windows would cause more uneven heating and cooling (as I've learned from last semester in school) and that they would create problems by shining the light on the parishiners on the floor. He suggested frosting the glass, but I didn't know if most churches had clear glass or incorporated some frosted glass.

Also, does anyone attend a church where there is a max of 250 people per year at Pascha and Nativity? If so, do you know how big your church is size wise? (at least the nave's size)
« Last Edit: January 11, 2009, 12:04:30 AM by 88Devin12 » Logged
HandmaidenofGod
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the USA (Ecumenical Patriarch)
Posts: 3,397


O Holy St. Demetrius pray to God for us!


« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2009, 12:16:28 AM »

Right now I've mainly talked to a couple parishiners and our Priest.

Yes it will be pew-free save for chairs on the outside perimeter.


Wonderful to hear!  Smiley

How much money does it cost to build most Orthodox Churches?


This depends greatly on the materials being used, the cost of the land, the area of the country being built. Many factors go into it.

Also as for windows, one of the criticisms of the architect was that the windows would cause more uneven heating and cooling (as I've learned from last semester in school) and that they would create problems by shining the light on the parishiners on the floor. He suggested frosting the glass, but I didn't know if most churches had clear glass or incorporated some frosted glass.


This may be true, but without windows, it will be rather dark, depressing, and resemble a large warehouse from the outside. I've never seen a church without windows. Remember, you're building an Orthodox Church not Home Depot.

Also, does anyone attend a church where there is a max of 250 people per year at Pascha and Nativity? If so, do you know how big your church is size wise? (at least the nave's size)
I think you need to do a lot more research and consult with priests in various cities and towns.

Here's some inspiration for you:

St. Andrew's Cathedral in Kiev:
http://www.tour2kiev.com/pub_img/0704161414_st_andrew.jpg

Cathedral of Christ the Savior in Moscow:
http://photos.igougo.com/images/p229646-Christ_the_Saviour_Cathedral.jpg
http://k43.pbase.com/u46/jortega/upload/29616182.ChristtheSaviorCathedralMoscowRussia.jpeg

St. Alexander Nevsky Cathedral in Moscow:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/179/484046592_e5d2dd4b73.jpg


« Last Edit: January 11, 2009, 12:17:52 AM by HandmaidenofGod » Logged

"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jer 29:11
88Devin12
Warned
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antioch
Posts: 4,998



« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2009, 12:22:05 AM »

Thank you very much!
Logged
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 33,153


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2009, 12:24:09 AM »

I like the design on the right, however as another poster mentioned, you definitely need windows. :-)

The buildings seem to have more of a Russian feel to them than Byzantine. If that's the case, stained glass windows would be lovely.  Smiley

I'm not sure about the whole bathroom statement, as the parish I grew up in had the bathrooms in the basement of the church, and my current parish has bathrooms in another wing of the church building.

Make sure the grounds are landscaped in such a way that they are "procession friendly" for Pascha. (i.e. even, level ground, a sidewalk going around the perimeter of the building perhaps, no shrubs in the way, etc.)

I hope this is a pew-free church. (Maybe just a few around the perimeter for the elderly, pregnant, etc.)

Have you looked online for pictures of Orthodox Churches in Europe? They should be your inspriation rather than some of the modern comglomerates we have in the U.S. Also, have you spoken to the iconographer for his plans/wishes for the building?




If your parish temple has a basement under the main worship level, I believe ecclesiastical codes allow for restrooms in the basement.  They just can't be in the temple on the same level as the floor dedicated for worship.
Logged
88Devin12
Warned
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antioch
Posts: 4,998



« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2009, 01:07:13 AM »

Where are those ecclesiastical codes or canons? Are there more?
Logged
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 33,153


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2009, 01:08:21 AM »

Where are those ecclesiastical codes or canons? Are there more?
I have not the foggiest idea.  I just heard them through my parish grapevine. Wink
Logged
88Devin12
Warned
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antioch
Posts: 4,998



« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2009, 01:11:15 AM »

Ah ok, I was going to look through the Canons on this site: http://aggreen.net/canons/canons.html, but decided it would take too long and since there isn't an outline or index, it would take forever...


I googled for a while and saw that one Orthodox Church (Not ours) had their cost estimated at a total of $1,250,000, is this realistic? Everyone i've heard from so far in the architecture/building construction world have said that from the level of architecture most Orthodox Churches have, it would cost a lot more than just over a million.
Does anyone have experience and can say how much it may cost? (Though this isn't something I have to be concerned with, I just don't want to come up with something that is unnafforable, which is easy for an Architecture Student to do)
« Last Edit: January 11, 2009, 01:17:32 AM by 88Devin12 » Logged
SolEX01
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, Holy Metropolis of New Jersey
Posts: 11,831


WWW
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2009, 01:32:22 AM »

I googled for a while and saw that one Orthodox Church (Not ours) had their cost estimated at a total of $1,250,000, is this realistic? Everyone i've heard from so far in the architecture/building construction world have said that from the level of architecture most Orthodox Churches have, it would cost a lot more than just over a million.
Does anyone have experience and can say how much it may cost? (Though this isn't something I have to be concerned with, I just don't want to come up with something that is unnafforable, which is easy for an Architecture Student to do)

I've heard of new Orthodox Churches going over $10 Million which includes community center and space for ethnic festivals.
Logged
Alveus Lacuna
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 6,965



« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2009, 01:35:03 AM »

Is the Springfield parish seriously interested in trying to go through with a traditional Byzantine Temple, or is this just something that you're having fun with?  I only ask because I think that I would have to cry tears of joy if my hometown had a traditional Orthodox church built.  The people in Springfield have no idea about holy Orthodoxy, and it would be such a witness!  Of course, your parishioners would have to be pretty wealth to pull that off...

By the way, I love your priest's voice!
Logged
HandmaidenofGod
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the USA (Ecumenical Patriarch)
Posts: 3,397


O Holy St. Demetrius pray to God for us!


« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2009, 01:47:50 AM »

St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church in NYC was destroyed on 9/11 when the Twin Towers fell on it. Their current plans for rebuilding are upwards of $75 million. (That's just for the Church btw.)

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/03/nyregion/03trade.html?pagewanted=1&n=Top/Reference/Times%20Topics/People/B/Bagli,%20Charles%20V.&_r=1
Logged

"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jer 29:11
SolEX01
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, Holy Metropolis of New Jersey
Posts: 11,831


WWW
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2009, 03:08:23 AM »

^ The Church in NYC is an extreme example due to counter-terrorism measures which have to be installed beneath it.  The GOA is not responsible for paying for anti-terrorism measures nor should it expect the Port Authority of NY & NJ to build a new Church.  Also note that the proposed size of the new lot size is 7 times larger than the original (8,400 Square Feet).  Personally, I believe St. Nick's Church should not be rebuilt.

Quote from: NYTimes Article
... In keeping with the archbishop’s vision, Mr. Koutsomitis planned for a roughly 24,000-square-foot marble church and adjoining spiritual center at an estimated cost of up to $40 million. But church leaders say they have raised only $4 million. JPMorgan Chase has agreed to give $10 million toward the rebuilding of St. Nicholas, as part of the bank’s tentative deal to build an office tower on the site of the Deutsche Bank building.... The Port Authority in turn wants the church to scale back its plans, move the location slightly and raise more money privately.
Logged
Αριστοκλής
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese
Posts: 10,026


« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2009, 03:20:24 AM »

^ The Church in NYC is an extreme example due to counter-terrorism measures which have to be installed beneath it.  The GOA is not responsible for paying for anti-terrorism measures nor should it expect the Port Authority of NY & NJ to build a new Church.  Also note that the proposed size of the new lot size is 7 times larger than the original (8,400 Square Feet).  Personally, I believe St. Nick's Church should not be rebuilt.


But then it was not YOUR parish, was it?
Logged

"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides
88Devin12
Warned
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antioch
Posts: 4,998



« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2009, 11:51:46 AM »

Yes they are thinking about expanding and building a new church on the same site (adjacent to the current building). I think the hopes are that it reflects Byzantine, Russian, Greek and other Orthodox traditions (reflecting the multi-nationality and different traditions in our parish).

It would be better once I get back down there for college in a week because I'll be able to talk to them about it and know what they would like much better. Right now I'm having to assume and comply with what the architects I work with are suggesting.
Logged
Heorhij
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOA, for now, but my heart belongs to the Ukrainian Orthodox Church
Posts: 8,576



WWW
« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2009, 12:59:07 PM »


Thank you for the beautiful picture of one of my most beloved Orthodox church buildings in the world. I grew up literally a few steps away from it - my parents' apartment was on Olesya Honchara (formerly Chkalova) Street, which runs in paralel to the Volodymyrs'ka St. on which St. Andrew's stands. Not to be picky, but it's actually not a cathedral, even though for some reason it's commonly known as a "cathedral" (even official tourist booklets or travel guides call it "cathedral"). There is no "cathedra" in this building, so it should be perhaps referred to simply as St. Andrew church. Currently, it belongs to the UAOC jurisdiction. It was built in the 1740-s according to the blueprint of an Italian architect called Bartolomeo Rastrelli. There is a legend that Tsarina Elizabeth I, the daughter of Peter I, secredly wed in this church with an obscure Ukrainian peasant called Oleksiy Rozum (who later became the Chairman of the Imperial Privy Council and the Chancelor of the Russian Empire, Count Alexej Razumovsky).

Here's a link to the St. Sophia Cathedral in Kyiv (note the many pictures on the right-hand side - they enlarge if you click on them):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Sophia_Cathedral_in_Kiev
Logged

Love never fails.
88Devin12
Warned
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antioch
Posts: 4,998



« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2009, 03:56:53 PM »

Newest design concept:

Logged
ytterbiumanalyst
Professor Emeritus, CSA
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA Diocese of the Midwest
Posts: 8,790



« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2009, 04:33:12 PM »

That's beautiful! I especially like the height of it, and the combination of plain three-bar and budding crosses on the cuppolas. In addition, the circular window above the entrance and the small gold cuppola help to tie the two buildings together. I'm impressed.

Any plans to try to connect it to the existing church, since we want to use it for coffee hour, receptions, etc.?
Logged

"It is remarkable that what we call the world...in what professes to be true...will allow in one man no blemishes, and in another no virtue."--Charles Dickens
HandmaidenofGod
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the USA (Ecumenical Patriarch)
Posts: 3,397


O Holy St. Demetrius pray to God for us!


« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2009, 05:06:03 PM »

Beautiful design! Perhaps you could put a breezeway between the two buildings to connect them? Also some large windows for the parish hall would be nice. If the buildings face east, you will especially want to take advantage of the morning sunlight for coffee hour.

Also, it's hard to tell by the placement of the windows; is the sanctuary on the first floor or the second floor? If it is on the second floor, is there an elevator?

Again, great design -- it's nice to see the traditional approach you are taking.
Logged

"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jer 29:11
ytterbiumanalyst
Professor Emeritus, CSA
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA Diocese of the Midwest
Posts: 8,790



« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2009, 05:11:48 PM »

Beautiful design! Perhaps you could put a breezeway between the two buildings to connect them? Also some large windows for the parish hall would be nice. If the buildings face east, you will especially want to take advantage of the morning sunlight for coffee hour.
Yes, that would be very nice. Currently there is only one small window in the existing church; the group that built it ran out of money for windows, and I would like to see some added.
Logged

"It is remarkable that what we call the world...in what professes to be true...will allow in one man no blemishes, and in another no virtue."--Charles Dickens
SolEX01
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, Holy Metropolis of New Jersey
Posts: 11,831


WWW
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2009, 05:36:31 PM »

^ The Church in NYC is an extreme example due to counter-terrorism measures which have to be installed beneath it.  The GOA is not responsible for paying for anti-terrorism measures nor should it expect the Port Authority of NY & NJ to build a new Church.  Also note that the proposed size of the new lot size is 7 times larger than the original (8,400 Square Feet).  Personally, I believe St. Nick's Church should not be rebuilt.
But then it was not YOUR parish, was it?

Let the dead bury the dead....

$40 Million for a Church which was built for mere thousands by Greek immigrants long before the Twin Towers came along?  No one should build a reincarnation of Haghia Sophia on Ground Zero.  If they want to rebuild a replica of the Church for way less than $40 Million, fine with me.
Logged
88Devin12
Warned
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antioch
Posts: 4,998



« Reply #37 on: January 11, 2009, 06:05:47 PM »

Right now the church I've designed has a nave that is cruciform. The floor is open save for four columns to support the central dome and the 4 towers. The windows up higher are all into the nave of the church.

Also, the wings on either side of the narthex (the octagonal central piece) are actually the bathrooms, stairs and elevator (to the basement, in case of bad weather) The windows on the front are actually not windows, but rather recessed parts of the building to echo the windows as well as to provide something more than just an empty front... Someday those could probably even house icons.

I think i've heard there is a possibility they would the like the two connected. I think we could also get some exemptions from the code for having them connected.

Floor plan of the building shown above:



The two triangular spaces could be storage, or connected to the wings and be used as hallways to the bathrooms or hallways to the stairs/elevator.

As planned, I believe that the height of the current nave would be about the same as what it is now, however it will seem taller/thinner because the roofs of the four corners drop down about 10ft from the central cruciform roof.
Also, the transepts on the north and south could probably be widened a bit. But I figured that is one feature of the church that is nice, especially since the nuns often stand in that area currently. Possibly have one transept for the nuns, and the other transept for the choir.

Also as a side note, the four towers on the corners won't have windows, rather, they will have a smaller dome-type structure in the interior with lighting. This would save money as well as cut down on the amount of support the towers will need. Also, more windows = more uneven heating and cooling during the year, which contributes to higher bills due to A/C and heating costs.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2009, 06:16:32 PM by 88Devin12 » Logged
Tags: architecture 
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.128 seconds with 64 queries.