Author Topic: Convert hierarchs?  (Read 10215 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline mike

  • The Jerk
  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,078
  • Scarecrow is watching you
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Makurian Orthodox
Convert hierarchs?
« on: December 27, 2008, 03:02:59 PM »
Are there some more modern convert hierarchs apart from metropolitan Jonah?

Offline ialmisry

  • There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 38,502
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2008, 03:15:06 PM »
Are there some more modern convert hierarchs apart from metropolitan Jonah?

In the OCA alone, two of his closest "contenders" for the metropolate (neither as far I know wanted it, one expressly saying no) were HG Job (from the Vatican), and HG Tikhon (from the episcoplians).  There was Archbp Peter L'Huillier (who is said to have been the foremost expert on canon law), and I seem to recall it being that the majority of the Holy Synod of the OCA are converts.  Our bishop Mark (Antiochian) is from the Pentacostals.  And of course there is Kallistos Ware, Metropolitan Anthony Bloom.  Although not a hierarch, nor yet formally canonized, there was Fr. Seraphim Rose.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline mike

  • The Jerk
  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,078
  • Scarecrow is watching you
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Makurian Orthodox
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2008, 03:20:56 PM »
Thanks. And what about primates?

Offline PeterTheAleut

  • The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 34,015
  • Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2008, 05:54:20 PM »
Are there some more modern convert hierarchs apart from metropolitan Jonah?

In the OCA alone, two of his closest "contenders" for the metropolate (neither as far I know wanted it, one expressly saying no) were HG Job (from the Vatican), and HG Tikhon (from the episcoplians).  There was Archbp Peter L'Huillier (who is said to have been the foremost expert on canon law), and I seem to recall it being that the majority of the Holy Synod of the OCA are converts.  Our bishop Mark (Antiochian) is from the Pentacostals.  And of course there is Kallistos Ware, Metropolitan Anthony Bloom.  Although not a hierarch, nor yet formally canonized, there was Fr. Seraphim Rose.
Bishop Benjamin of the OCA Diocese of the West (third behind Bp. Jonah and Abp. Job in the recent vote for OCA Metropolitan) also converted to the Orthodox faith--I want to say he was previously Lutheran, but I'm not sure.
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline mike

  • The Jerk
  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,078
  • Scarecrow is watching you
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Makurian Orthodox
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2008, 06:10:03 PM »
That's very interesting. I used to think that OCA (especially clergy) mainly consists of descendans of Russian immigrants. I'm glad to see, that I was wrong.

Offline arimethea

  • Getting too old for this
  • Section Moderator
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,968
  • Does anyone really care what you think?
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2008, 06:38:41 PM »
That's very interesting. I used to think that OCA (especially clergy) mainly consists of descendans of Russian immigrants. I'm glad to see, that I was wrong.
The OCA really never has consisted of descendants of Russian immigrants. Most of the immigrants who made up the Metropolia (the pre cursor to the OCA) were from your neck of the woods. While they may have come from areas controlled by Russia they are ethnically Poles, Carps, Ukies, and Lemkos.
Joseph

Offline Deacon Lance

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,152
  • Faith: Byzantine Catholic
  • Jurisdiction: Archeparchy of Pittsburgh
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2008, 06:44:00 PM »
Archbishop Nathaniel was Romanian Greek Catholic priest before coming to the OCA.
My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.

Offline ialmisry

  • There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 38,502
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2008, 10:42:21 PM »
Thanks. And what about primates?

You mean autocephalous or autonomous?  Not so likely, as only a few areas would have the odds in favor of that: most of those areas have either everyone already Orthodox, at least in name, or places where the dynamics favor a "native" Orthodox.  The OCA comes to mind of course, but perhaps the Churches of Japan or Finland might (the latter I doubt though).  The Czech and Slovak Church must have at one time, as it is almost all convert in origin.  I would say Poland has odds on it happening, but I don't know enough and certainly not as much as you on that.

One place that would be different would be Albania: the present primate is from an Orthodox family, but his likely successor is from a Muslim background.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2008, 10:43:31 PM by ialmisry »
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

  • There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 38,502
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2008, 10:44:16 PM »
That's very interesting. I used to think that OCA (especially clergy) mainly consists of descendans of Russian immigrants. I'm glad to see, that I was wrong.
The OCA really never has consisted of descendants of Russian immigrants. Most of the immigrants who made up the Metropolia (the pre cursor to the OCA) were from your neck of the woods. While they may have come from areas controlled by Russia they are ethnically Poles, Carps, Ukies, and Lemkos.

Don't forget the Aleuts, Yupiks and other Amerindians.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Alpo

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,319
  • My borcht recipe is better than your borcht recipe
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2008, 05:53:40 AM »
The OCA comes to mind of course, but perhaps the Churches of Japan or Finland might (the latter I doubt though).
I think HE bishop Ambrose of Helsinki is a convert from Lutheranism but at least I've never heard that HE Archbishop Leo of Finland would be a convert.

Offline Elisha

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,547
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2008, 06:22:12 AM »
Don't forget HE Dmitri of Dallas and the South - the first convert bishop in the country.

Offline mike

  • The Jerk
  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,078
  • Scarecrow is watching you
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Makurian Orthodox
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2008, 01:56:25 PM »
Thanks a lot. I was curious about autonomous Churches also.

Offline mike

  • The Jerk
  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,078
  • Scarecrow is watching you
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Makurian Orthodox
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2008, 10:15:55 AM »
I found that ROCOR's bishop Jerome of Manhattan is also - former Episcopalian.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2008, 10:18:08 AM by mike »

Offline Pravoslavbob

  • Section Moderator
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,204
  • Distressed about my country
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2008, 12:16:29 PM »
Are there some more modern convert hierarchs apart from metropolitan Jonah?

Archbishop Seraphim of Canada (OCA) is a convert from Anglicanism.
Religion is a disease, and Orthodoxy is its cure.

Offline Gorazd

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,961
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2010, 02:26:36 PM »
ROCOR in Germany now has a Lutheran-born Archbishop for the second time: Mark (Arndt). The first was Serafim (Lade), who died in 1950.

Offline Iconodule

  • Uranopolitan
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,137
  • "My god is greater."
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Ecumenical Patriarchate (ACROD)
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2010, 02:29:25 PM »
Bishop Tikhon of Philadelphia and Eastern Pennsylvania is also a convert from Episcopalianism.
"A riddle or the cricket's cry
Is to doubt a fit reply." - William Blake

Offline Shlomlokh

  • 主哀れめよ!
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,319
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2010, 02:39:27 PM »
Bishop George of ROCOR was raised Roman Catholic.
"I will pour out my prayer unto the Lord, and to Him will I proclaim my grief; for with evils my soul is filled, and my life unto hades hath drawn nigh, and like Jonah I will pray: From corruption raise me up, O God." -Ode VI, Irmos of the Supplicatory Canon to the Theotokos

Offline scamandrius

  • Crusher of Secrets; House Lannister
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,513
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Greek in exile
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2010, 03:23:41 PM »
I thought Bishop MARK of the Antiochian Diocese of Toledo and the Midwest was a convert from Roman Catholicism.
I seek the truth by which no man was ever harmed--Marcus Aurelius

Those who do not read  history are doomed to get their facts from Hollywood--Anonymous

What earthly joy remains untouched by grief?--St. John Damascene

Offline Robb

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,537
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2010, 03:38:36 PM »
Bishop Tikhon (Stephen Fitzgerald), the former head of the OCA diocese of the west was a convert from Lutheranism (I believe).

It seems like an awful lot of Lutherans end up Orthodox. Is there some parallel between their religion and the OC that would lead so many to embrace the Orthodoxy?
« Last Edit: May 27, 2010, 03:38:52 PM by Robb »
Men may dislike truth, men may find truth offensive and inconvenient, men may persecute the truth, subvert it, try by law to suppress it. But to maintain that men have the final power over truth is blasphemy, and the last delusion. Truth lives forever, men do not.
-- Gustave Flaubert

Offline ialmisry

  • There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 38,502
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2010, 03:48:59 PM »
I thought Bishop MARK of the Antiochian Diocese of Toledo and the Midwest was a convert from Roman Catholicism.
via Pentacostalism.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

  • There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 38,502
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2010, 03:50:44 PM »
Bishop Tikhon (Stephen Fitzgerald), the former head of the OCA diocese of the west was a convert from Lutheranism (I believe).

It seems like an awful lot of Lutherans end up Orthodox. Is there some parallel between their religion and the OC that would lead so many to embrace the Orthodoxy?
Not really, except is is more liturgical for the main than the evangelical and not Calvinist, and has some belief in the real presence and hierarchy-the Lutheran churches of Sweden and Finland claim apostolic succession.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

  • There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 38,502
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2010, 03:52:54 PM »
Thanks. And what about primates?

You mean autocephalous or autonomous?  Not so likely, as only a few areas would have the odds in favor of that: most of those areas have either everyone already Orthodox, at least in name, or places where the dynamics favor a "native" Orthodox.  The OCA comes to mind of course, but perhaps the Churches of Japan or Finland might (the latter I doubt though).  The Czech and Slovak Church must have at one time, as it is almost all convert in origin.  I would say Poland has odds on it happening, but I don't know enough and certainly not as much as you on that.

One place that would be different would be Albania: the present primate is from an Orthodox family, but his likely successor is from a Muslim background.

St. Archbishop Gorazd of Czechoslovakia was a convert from the Vatican, via a sort of Old Catholic group that was begining.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline scamandrius

  • Crusher of Secrets; House Lannister
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,513
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Greek in exile
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2010, 04:05:40 PM »
Bishop Tikhon (Stephen Fitzgerald), the former head of the OCA diocese of the west was a convert from Lutheranism (I believe).

It seems like an awful lot of Lutherans end up Orthodox. Is there some parallel between their religion and the OC that would lead so many to embrace the Orthodoxy?

A lot of Lutherans become Orthodox but it seems that the "evangelization" emphasis has been more on Episcopalians as Episcopalians and Orthodox interactions in this country have a long history.  St. Raphael of Brooklyn was very involved in the Episcopalian--Orthodox dialogues, but eventually quit when he could not countenance the Episcopalians' claims that their orders and sacraments were just as valid as Orthodox and could be given to Orthodox Christians without any problems.

On another note, I can't give any specifics about this, but it seems that most Episcopalian clergy who convert start Western Rite parishes while Lutherans generally go for the Eastern Rite.  That's been my observation and may very well not be the full truth.
I seek the truth by which no man was ever harmed--Marcus Aurelius

Those who do not read  history are doomed to get their facts from Hollywood--Anonymous

What earthly joy remains untouched by grief?--St. John Damascene

Offline scamandrius

  • Crusher of Secrets; House Lannister
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,513
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Greek in exile
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2010, 04:06:09 PM »
I thought Bishop MARK of the Antiochian Diocese of Toledo and the Midwest was a convert from Roman Catholicism.
via Pentacostalism.

Interesting. Didn't know that.
I seek the truth by which no man was ever harmed--Marcus Aurelius

Those who do not read  history are doomed to get their facts from Hollywood--Anonymous

What earthly joy remains untouched by grief?--St. John Damascene

Offline ialmisry

  • There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 38,502
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2010, 04:20:55 PM »
Bishop Tikhon (Stephen Fitzgerald), the former head of the OCA diocese of the west was a convert from Lutheranism (I believe).

It seems like an awful lot of Lutherans end up Orthodox. Is there some parallel between their religion and the OC that would lead so many to embrace the Orthodoxy?

A lot of Lutherans become Orthodox but it seems that the "evangelization" emphasis has been more on Episcopalians as Episcopalians and Orthodox interactions in this country have a long history.  St. Raphael of Brooklyn was very involved in the Episcopalian--Orthodox dialogues, but eventually quit when he could not countenance the Episcopalians' claims that their orders and sacraments were just as valid as Orthodox and could be given to Orthodox Christians without any problems.

On another note, I can't give any specifics about this, but it seems that most Episcopalian clergy who convert start Western Rite parishes while Lutherans generally go for the Eastern Rite.  That's been my observation and may very well not be the full truth.
Not sure if we can tell, given that the WRO option isn't as well advertised as it should. Holy Incarnation WRO in Detroit's priest, Fr. John Fenton, was Lutheran.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline scamandrius

  • Crusher of Secrets; House Lannister
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,513
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Greek in exile
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2010, 04:39:59 PM »
Bishop Tikhon (Stephen Fitzgerald), the former head of the OCA diocese of the west was a convert from Lutheranism (I believe).

It seems like an awful lot of Lutherans end up Orthodox. Is there some parallel between their religion and the OC that would lead so many to embrace the Orthodoxy?

A lot of Lutherans become Orthodox but it seems that the "evangelization" emphasis has been more on Episcopalians as Episcopalians and Orthodox interactions in this country have a long history.  St. Raphael of Brooklyn was very involved in the Episcopalian--Orthodox dialogues, but eventually quit when he could not countenance the Episcopalians' claims that their orders and sacraments were just as valid as Orthodox and could be given to Orthodox Christians without any problems.

On another note, I can't give any specifics about this, but it seems that most Episcopalian clergy who convert start Western Rite parishes while Lutherans generally go for the Eastern Rite.  That's been my observation and may very well not be the full truth.
Not sure if we can tell, given that the WRO option isn't as well advertised as it should. Holy Incarnation WRO in Detroit's priest, Fr. John Fenton, was Lutheran.

I know Fr. John.  He is the ONLY Lutheran I know of who stuck with Western Rite. The others I know including Fr. Gregory (Hogg) went Eastern Rite. 

The Western Rite church here in Omaha has had two former Episcopalians as its priests.
I seek the truth by which no man was ever harmed--Marcus Aurelius

Those who do not read  history are doomed to get their facts from Hollywood--Anonymous

What earthly joy remains untouched by grief?--St. John Damascene

Offline Robert W

  • Self-appointed forum herald
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 469
  • Love is no feeling
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #26 on: May 27, 2010, 06:39:18 PM »
Another convert from Lutheranism is Metropolitan JOHANNES of Nicea, former Archbishop and primate of the Finnish Orthodox Church.
http://orthodoxwiki.org/John_(Rinne)_of_Nicea
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Nikean-metropoliitta-Johannes/207163543488

Offline ialmisry

  • There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 38,502
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #27 on: May 27, 2010, 11:23:49 PM »
Another convert from Lutheranism is Metropolitan JOHANNES of Nicea, former Archbishop and primate of the Finnish Orthodox Church.
http://orthodoxwiki.org/John_(Rinne)_of_Nicea
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Nikean-metropoliitta-Johannes/207163543488

Why/how did he translate to Nicea?
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline CCTE

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 84
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #28 on: May 28, 2010, 01:06:07 AM »
Auxiliary-Bishop Marc ALRIC is a french convert from romano-catholicism. He is the assistant bishop of the metropolitan Iosif, of the Romanian Orthodox Metropolitan see for western and southern Europe.
http://www.mitropolia.eu/ro/site/66/

Offline Robb

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,537
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #29 on: May 28, 2010, 01:21:42 AM »
Lutherans don't really have a structured liturgical service anyway so I guess that there isn't much of a "rite" so to speak for them to be attached too.

Are there still a lot of Baptist and other evangelicals coming into Orthodoxy like there were 20 years ago, or mostly mainline Prots these days?
Men may dislike truth, men may find truth offensive and inconvenient, men may persecute the truth, subvert it, try by law to suppress it. But to maintain that men have the final power over truth is blasphemy, and the last delusion. Truth lives forever, men do not.
-- Gustave Flaubert

Offline jnorm888

  • Jnorm
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,516
  • Icon and Cross (international space station)
    • Ancient Christian Defender
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #30 on: May 28, 2010, 01:35:14 AM »
Lutherans don't really have a structured liturgical service anyway so I guess that there isn't much of a "rite" so to speak for them to be attached too.

Are there still a lot of Baptist and other evangelicals coming into Orthodoxy like there were 20 years ago, or mostly mainline Prots these days?

Coming into Orthodoxy? Yeah

Being Bishops? Nah...probably not...maybe sub-deacons, deacons, and priests, but being an un-married clergy is not that attractive to alot of lower church protestant groups.....and so most of them settle and are satisfied with the sub-deacon, deacon, and priest spot.
"loving one's enemies does not mean loving wickedness, ungodliness, adultery, or theft. Rather, it means loving the theif, the ungodly, and the adulterer." Clement of Alexandria 195 A.D.

http://ancientchristiandefender.blogspot.com/

Offline Gorazd

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,961
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #31 on: May 28, 2010, 01:45:36 AM »
It seems like an awful lot of Lutherans end up Orthodox. Is there some parallel between their religion and the OC that would lead so many to embrace the Orthodoxy?

Originally coming from Lutheranism myself, I can only say the following: Luther's idea was to restore original Christianity, as it was before Rome changed some things. Due to the lack of information available at his time, he failed of course. But some Lutherans still take that original idea seriously, and thus they develop an interest in the Old Church or go as far as joining the Orthodox Church.

Here in Germany, many conservative Lutherans are also quite liturgical (and every Lutheran service is supposed to be structered - nothing really informal there) , that includes both "high church Lutherans" and confessional Lutherans. The probably most "high-ranking" German convert is Karl Christian Felmy, who is the son of a High Church Lutheran pastor.
Karl Christian Felmy himself used to be professor of Lutheran theology and dean of a Lutheran theological faculty. In his academical work, he published a lot about Orthodox matters, and four years after retiring, he became Orthodox.


Actually, most converts here seem to have been Lutheran before, at least the ones who were actively religious before. Roman Catholics who are dissatisfied with their local parish (and most of their parishes are quite Cafeteria Catholic) rather tend to join the Tridentine Rite, Opus Dei, Neocatechumenal Way or even the Uniates.

Offline Robert W

  • Self-appointed forum herald
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 469
  • Love is no feeling
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #32 on: May 28, 2010, 02:33:29 AM »
Another convert from Lutheranism is Metropolitan JOHANNES of Nicea, former Archbishop and primate of the Finnish Orthodox Church.
http://orthodoxwiki.org/John_(Rinne)_of_Nicea
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Nikean-metropoliitta-Johannes/207163543488

Why/how did he translate to Nicea?
Metropolitan Johannes is an old man. It's doubtful if he even has the strength to conduct a liturgy. He resigned as Archbishop because of his age, and got appointed by the Patriarchate as titular Metropolitan of Nicea. He has not moved to Turkey or anything but is living in Finland.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2010, 02:34:04 AM by Robert W »

Offline ialmisry

  • There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 38,502
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #33 on: May 28, 2010, 02:40:22 AM »
Another convert from Lutheranism is Metropolitan JOHANNES of Nicea, former Archbishop and primate of the Finnish Orthodox Church.
http://orthodoxwiki.org/John_(Rinne)_of_Nicea
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Nikean-metropoliitta-Johannes/207163543488

Why/how did he translate to Nicea?
Metropolitan Johannes is an old man. It's doubtful if he even has the strength to conduct a liturgy. He resigned as Archbishop because of his age, and got appointed by the Patriarchate as titular Metropolitan of Nicea. He has not moved to Turkey or anything but is living in Finland.
That's a shame.  Nicea is in fine retirement country.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Gorazd

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,961
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #34 on: May 28, 2010, 06:22:14 AM »
I agree with ialmisry. Finland is a wonderful place to be, but isn't the climate in Winter a bit hard for the old and sick?

Look at Iznik (Nicaea), I would love to retire there.

Offline Robert W

  • Self-appointed forum herald
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 469
  • Love is no feeling
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #35 on: May 28, 2010, 07:25:21 AM »
 ;D ;D ;D Gorazd and ialmisry , you are both forgetting that Metropolitan Johannes is Finnish, speaks Finnish and has his close ones in Finland. Nicea is a nice place and all but they all speak Turkish there and he wouldn't know anyone over there. As far as I have understood Nicea is a titular see because all the Orthodox of that area had been forced to leave long ago. I wouldn't go live there in my old age, I would like to be at home.  ;D

Offline Gorazd

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,961
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #36 on: May 28, 2010, 07:56:46 AM »
Here in Germany, many people retire to Turkey (or Spain). And even though Greeks were forced out around 1920, I am sure there are some Russians and Ukrainians in Nicaea nowadays, like all over Turkey. Does the older generation of Finnish priests still know Russian?

Anyway, it would be cool to have a bishop in the city of the Holy Council.

Offline ialmisry

  • There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 38,502
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #37 on: May 28, 2010, 10:21:38 AM »
;D ;D ;D Gorazd and ialmisry , you are both forgetting that Metropolitan Johannes is Finnish, speaks Finnish and has his close ones in Finland. Nicea is a nice place and all but they all speak Turkish there and he wouldn't know anyone over there. As far as I have understood Nicea is a titular see because all the Orthodox of that area had been forced to leave long ago. I wouldn't go live there in my old age, I would like to be at home.  ;D

I know he is Finnish and speaks Finnish. That's why I know he has his Nokia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhxZoV3t61c
(there's a section that has been cut, talking about Finns can only talk to each other on the phone, hence the high cell phone use).
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline podkarpatska

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,200
  • Pokrov
    • ACROD (home)
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #38 on: May 28, 2010, 10:41:12 AM »
The late Bishop John of ACROD was a convert from the Byzantine Catholic Church as well.

Offline Robert W

  • Self-appointed forum herald
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 469
  • Love is no feeling
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #39 on: May 28, 2010, 10:58:45 AM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhxZoV3t61c
"The Finnish male is very prone to self pity" HAHAHA  ;D I love it.

Back to topic (-ish  ::)), if there are enough Orthodox people in Nicea to have a functioning see there then a more virile bishop should be appointed.

Offline Jake C

  • Catechumen
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 89
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #40 on: May 28, 2010, 12:23:30 PM »
Roman Catholics who are dissatisfied with their local parish (and most of their parishes are quite Cafeteria Catholic) rather tend to join the Tridentine Rite, Opus Dei, Neocatechumenal Way or even the Uniates.

I'm curious, could you tell me what exactly the "Neocatechumenal Way" is? I had a classmate in college who said she was a "Neocat". I'm curious as to what this group is.
Blessed art Thou, O Lord, teach me Thy statutes.

Offline Gorazd

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,961
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #41 on: May 28, 2010, 01:05:42 PM »
Roman Catholics who are dissatisfied with their local parish (and most of their parishes are quite Cafeteria Catholic) rather tend to join the Tridentine Rite, Opus Dei, Neocatechumenal Way or even the Uniates.

I'm curious, could you tell me what exactly the "Neocatechumenal Way" is? I had a classmate in college who said she was a "Neocat". I'm curious as to what this group is.

You might just have a look at the Wikipedia article...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neocatechumenal_Way

Offline scamandrius

  • Crusher of Secrets; House Lannister
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,513
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Greek in exile
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #42 on: May 28, 2010, 04:37:36 PM »
Lutherans don't really have a structured liturgical service anyway so I guess that there isn't much of a "rite" so to speak for them to be attached too.

That's not quite true.  I grew up in a fairly conservative parish where the Liturgy was celebrated every other week in a modified form of the Rite of St. Gregory.  However, over time, more praise band music and praise worship crept in.  There are still many parishes (a dwindling minority) especially in the LCMS (Missouri Synod Lutherans) who still use the traditional Liturgy (from the LH of 1943 which itself is a reprint of the one from 1905).  I grant that there are few of them, but I think the time is ripe in the LCMS (especially following their assembly this year where it is very likely they will get rid of their progressive disaster of a president for the past 12 years) for Liturgical renewal using the same type of Liturgy the Germans brought over from Saxony in the 1860s which was being phased out by the unionists over there.
I seek the truth by which no man was ever harmed--Marcus Aurelius

Those who do not read  history are doomed to get their facts from Hollywood--Anonymous

What earthly joy remains untouched by grief?--St. John Damascene

Offline Alpo

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,319
  • My borcht recipe is better than your borcht recipe
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #43 on: May 28, 2010, 04:48:24 PM »
Lutherans don't really have a structured liturgical service anyway so I guess that there isn't much of a "rite" so to speak for them to be attached too.

I don't know about American Lutherans but at least for me Finnish Lutheran mass seems pretty much like Novus Ordo. Here's a video about pretty typical Finnish Lutheran mass:

http://areena.yle.fi/video/1002570


Offline Starlight

  • Site Supporter
  • OC.net guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,537
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #44 on: May 29, 2010, 11:20:34 PM »
Hieromartyr of our times, Bishop Paul de Ballester-Convallier, a former Roman Catholic: http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/Paul_%28de_Ballester-Convallier%29_of_Nazianzus

Archbishop Jonah of Kampala and all Uganda, Patriarchate of Alexandria

Metropolitan Ieronymos of Mwanza, Patriarchate of Alexandria

Archbishop Gabriel (de Vylder) of Archdiocese of Russian Orthodox Churches in Western Europe - the Ecumenical Patriarchate, also former Roman Catholic

Bishop Daniel (Zelynsky) of UOC of USA, former Eastern Rite Catholic Deacon.

Archbishop Theodosious (Attalah Hanna) of Jerusalem Patriarchate, former Muslim.

For example, Bishop Athenagoras (Peckstadt) of Synope, Greek Orthodox Metropolis of Belgium, and Metropolitan Daniel (Nushiro) of Tokyo and all Japan were already born into Orthodox convert families.

Is Bishop Dimitrios (Couchell) of Xanthos, GOA, retired, also a convert?

There are also some Heirarchs in Ukraine, who were raised as Atheists.

« Last Edit: May 29, 2010, 11:21:45 PM by Starlight »

Offline Gorazd

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,961
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #45 on: May 30, 2010, 01:27:58 AM »
Archbishop Theodosious (Attalah Hanna) of Jerusalem Patriarchate, former Muslim.

It seems to me that he is from an Arab Christian family (though that is still exceptional - most JP bishops are Greeks). Actually, "Hanna" (or Yuhanna) means John in Aramaic, and is a typically Christian last name. The Muslim version of John would be "Yahya".

« Last Edit: May 30, 2010, 01:28:13 AM by Gorazd »

Offline katherineofdixie

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 3,590
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #46 on: June 01, 2010, 11:20:16 AM »
Lutherans don't really have a structured liturgical service anyway so I guess that there isn't much of a "rite" so to speak for them to be attached too.


Not so. Although of course, things could have changed since I last attended a Lutheran service. I was Lutheran before I converted (German Lutheran, btw, and the strength of my ethnic/religious background and culture was one reason it took me so long to convert to Orthodoxy). The Lutheran service is structured and liturgical, so that I felt very comfortable the first time I attended a Divine Liturgy in a Greek Orthodox Church. I was quite attached to the Lutheran liturgy, and I still miss the music.

(btw, a GOA bishop that I know told me that we are all converts!)
« Last Edit: June 01, 2010, 11:21:14 AM by katherineofdixie »
"If but ten of us lead a holy life, we shall kindle a fire which shall light up the entire city."

 St. John Chrysostom

Offline Fr. George

  • formerly "Cleveland"
  • Administrator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *******
  • Posts: 20,206
  • May the Lord bless you and keep you always!
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #47 on: June 01, 2010, 12:08:46 PM »
(btw, a GOA bishop that I know told me that we are all converts!)

Technically, he's right, unless someone was baptized in vitro.
"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"
Met. Meletios of Nikopolis & Preveza, from his ordination.

Offline Orthodox11

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,999
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #48 on: June 01, 2010, 12:21:57 PM »
Lutherans don't really have a structured liturgical service anyway so I guess that there isn't much of a "rite" so to speak for them to be attached too.

I was formerly a member of the Church of Norway - all my family still are (albeit nominally). It is very much a liturgical church. The first time I showed my grandma a copy of the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom in Norwegian she said "Ah, it's basically like ours, except for all the Maria stuff."

Offline mike

  • The Jerk
  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,078
  • Scarecrow is watching you
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Makurian Orthodox
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #49 on: July 19, 2011, 10:58:20 AM »
Archbishop Jonah of Kampala and all Uganda, Patriarchate of Alexandria

Isn't he a grandson of the one of the two first Ugandan Priests (Fr. Ruben Spartas Mukasa).

Metropolitan Theodosius (Nagashima) of Japan (former Buddhist) and (Arch?)Bishop Alexis (van der Mensbrugghe) of Meudon (former Roman Catholic).
« Last Edit: July 19, 2011, 11:08:40 AM by Michał Kalina »

Offline katherineofdixie

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 3,590
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #50 on: July 19, 2011, 11:24:16 AM »
Lutherans don't really have a structured liturgical service anyway so I guess that there isn't much of a "rite" so to speak for them to be attached too.

That's not quite true.  I grew up in a fairly conservative parish where the Liturgy was celebrated every other week in a modified form of the Rite of St. Gregory.  However, over time, more praise band music and praise worship crept in.  There are still many parishes (a dwindling minority) especially in the LCMS (Missouri Synod Lutherans) who still use the traditional Liturgy (from the LH of 1943 which itself is a reprint of the one from 1905).  I grant that there are few of them, but I think the time is ripe in the LCMS (especially following their assembly this year where it is very likely they will get rid of their progressive disaster of a president for the past 12 years) for Liturgical renewal using the same type of Liturgy the Germans brought over from Saxony in the 1860s which was being phased out by the unionists over there.

Yes, it's not true at all that Lutherans don't have a structured liturgical services. (If not for any other reason than Germans are very structured!)The Lutheran Church I grew up in here in the US was very liturgical - you should have seen the blood on the floor when they were changing the hymnals and the services. This liturgical background enabled me to follow the Divine Liturgy quite well, the first time I attended an Orthodox Church. I was already familiar with the structure and could say "kyrie eleison" with the rest of 'em.
"If but ten of us lead a holy life, we shall kindle a fire which shall light up the entire city."

 St. John Chrysostom

Offline ag_vn

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 409
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #51 on: August 03, 2011, 07:21:33 AM »
Archbishop George (Wagner), Auxiliary Bishop (1971-1981), Patriarchal Exarch for the Orthodox Parishes of Russian Tradition in Western Europe (1981-1993), former Protestant.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2011, 07:36:09 AM by ag_vn »

Offline ag_vn

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 409
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #52 on: August 03, 2011, 07:42:04 AM »
Bishop Paul (de Ballester-Convallier) of Nazianzus (1970-1984), Auxiliary Bishop in Mexico of the then united Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of North and South America, former Roman Catholic.

Bishop Jose (Cortes y Olmos) of Mexico City, OCA (1972-1983), former Roman Catholic.

Bishop Alejo (Pacheco y Vera) of Mexico City, OCA (2005- ), former Roman Catholic.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2011, 07:43:37 AM by ag_vn »

Offline John of the North

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 3,533
  • Christ is Risen!
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #53 on: August 04, 2011, 02:46:19 AM »
HG Irénée, Bishop of Québec City, Administrator of the Archdiocese of Canada. I would assume he was raised a Roman Catholic, but that is not clear from his biography--assumptions are dangerous. :)
"Christianity is not a philosophy, not a doctrine, but life." - Elder Sophrony (Sakharov)

Offline mike

  • The Jerk
  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,078
  • Scarecrow is watching you
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Makurian Orthodox
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #54 on: September 03, 2011, 05:59:15 PM »
Former Bishop Basil (Osborne) of Amphipolis.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2011, 05:59:24 PM by Michał Kalina »

Offline mike

  • The Jerk
  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,078
  • Scarecrow is watching you
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Makurian Orthodox
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #55 on: September 03, 2011, 06:55:59 PM »
Metropolitan Christopher of Prague (former Old Catholic).

Offline mike

  • The Jerk
  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,078
  • Scarecrow is watching you
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Makurian Orthodox
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #56 on: October 30, 2011, 04:42:07 PM »
Metropolitan Seraphim (Lade) of Germany (former Protestant)

Offline orthonorm

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,184
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #57 on: October 30, 2011, 06:07:21 PM »
Amerindians.

Thank you. Word on the tip of my tongue this afternoon.
Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.

Offline ilyazhito

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 938
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #58 on: October 31, 2011, 12:03:19 PM »
Are there some more modern convert hierarchs apart from metropolitan Jonah?

In the OCA alone, two of his closest "contenders" for the metropolate (neither as far I know wanted it, one expressly saying no) were HG Job (from the Vatican), and HG Tikhon (from the episcoplians).  There was Archbp Peter L'Huillier (who is said to have been the foremost expert on canon law), and I seem to recall it being that the majority of the Holy Synod of the OCA are converts.  Our bishop Mark (Antiochian) is from the Pentacostals.  And of course there is Kallistos Ware, Metropolitan Anthony Bloom.  Although not a hierarch, nor yet formally canonized, there was Fr. Seraphim Rose.
Bishop Benjamin of the OCA Diocese of the West (third behind Bp. Jonah and Abp. Job in the recent vote for OCA Metropolitan) also converted to the Orthodox faith--I want to say he was previously Lutheran, but I'm not sure.
Bishop Benjamin's family were Methodists.

Offline Basil 320

  • Site Supporter
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,147
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #59 on: October 31, 2011, 01:00:56 PM »
Reply No. 44 asked whether retired GOAA Bishop Dimitrios of Xanthos is a convert.  I don't think so, both his mother and father were of Greek extraction.
"...Strengthen the Orthodox Community..."

Offline username!

  • Section Moderator
  • Protokentarchos
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,081
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #60 on: November 03, 2011, 04:30:48 PM »
As a side note, Met. Nicholas, memory eternal, was the first bishop of ACROD that was baptised Orthodox as a baby.. ie, he wasn't Greek Catholic at one point. 

Offline mike

  • The Jerk
  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,078
  • Scarecrow is watching you
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Makurian Orthodox
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #61 on: December 17, 2011, 11:57:21 AM »
I've hard also some gossips that Archbishop Adam of Przemyśl and Nowy Sącz was an Eastern Catholic but IDK whether they are true.

Offline Maria

  • Orthodox Christian
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,995
  • O most Holy Theotokos, save us.
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: GOC
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #62 on: December 17, 2011, 01:12:54 PM »
His Eminence Metropolitan Moses of the GOC/HOTCA Synod converted from Roman Catholicism when he was a teenager.

http://www.orthodoxmetropolisportland.org/index.html
« Last Edit: December 17, 2011, 01:13:59 PM by Maria »
Ἅγιος ὁ Θεός
Ἅγιος ἰσχυρός
Ἅγιος ἀθάνατος
ἐλέησον ἡμας

Offline mike

  • The Jerk
  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,078
  • Scarecrow is watching you
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Makurian Orthodox
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #63 on: December 21, 2011, 03:09:38 PM »
Bishop Panteleimon of Oulu and Bishop Arsenius of Joensuu - from Lutheranism. Retired Bishop Seraphim of Sendai - former Presbyterian.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2011, 03:11:26 PM by Michał Kalina »

Offline mike

  • The Jerk
  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,078
  • Scarecrow is watching you
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Makurian Orthodox
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #64 on: March 09, 2013, 07:30:26 PM »
Apparently, Patriarch Miron (Cristea) of Romania had been Eastern Catholic. Metropolitan Orestes (Chornock) of Agathonikeia was one too.

Bishop Ambrose of Recife and Archbishop Chysostomos of Rio de Janeiro (former Catholics).

Metropolitan John of Portugal and propably whole his Synod (now all of them are non-canonical).
« Last Edit: March 09, 2013, 07:40:08 PM by Michał Kalina »

Offline Putnik Namernik

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 482
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #65 on: March 09, 2013, 09:19:45 PM »
Apparently, Patriarch Miron (Cristea) of Romania had been Eastern Catholic. Metropolitan Orestes (Chornock) of Agathonikeia was one too.

Bishop Ambrose of Recife and Archbishop Chysostomos of Rio de Janeiro (former Catholics).

Metropolitan John of Portugal and propably whole his Synod (now all of them are non-canonical).

What happened? Who are they with now?

Offline Basil 320

  • Site Supporter
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,147
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #66 on: March 09, 2013, 11:43:23 PM »
Metropolitan Orestes, when he was a parish priest, in 1937, Fr. Orestes P. Chornok, having converted to Orthodoxy and ordained to the episcopacy at The Phanar, brought Roman Catholic Byzantine Rite parishes in the U.S. from under the Church of Rome, to being under the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, forming the American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Greek Catholic Diocese of the U.S.A. (ACROD).  ACROD headquarters are in Johnstown, Pennsylvania.
"...Strengthen the Orthodox Community..."

Offline choy

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,316
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #67 on: March 10, 2013, 12:18:22 AM »
Bishop Irenee of Quebec City and the Archdiocese of Canada (OCA) was Roman Catholic.  I got to chat with him a bit when I stated my intention to become a Catechumen.  He was visiting our parish that day.

Offline mike

  • The Jerk
  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,078
  • Scarecrow is watching you
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Makurian Orthodox
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #68 on: March 10, 2013, 09:28:24 AM »
What happened? Who are they with now?

They are with themselves. Use the forum search, you should find something.

Offline podkarpatska

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,200
  • Pokrov
    • ACROD (home)
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #69 on: March 10, 2013, 12:48:11 PM »
Metropolitan Orestes, when he was a parish priest, in 1937, Fr. Orestes P. Chornok, having converted to Orthodoxy and ordained to the episcopacy at The Phanar, brought Roman Catholic Byzantine Rite parishes in the U.S. from under the Church of Rome, to being under the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, forming the American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Greek Catholic Diocese of the U.S.A. (ACROD).  ACROD headquarters are in Johnstown, Pennsylvania.

There is no such thing as a "Roman Catholic Byzantine Rite."  These people were Greek Catholics and were anyone living from that generation, and the one before them (the generation of St. Alexis Toth), they would tell all of you in no uncertain terms that they were not and their people never were Roman Catholics.

Offline Basil 320

  • Site Supporter
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,147
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #70 on: March 10, 2013, 04:26:59 PM »
I know, "podkarpatska," but that's what gets under my skin about this "jurisdiction;" they are not part of Orthodox Church, but they think they are; they're part of the Roman Catholic Church; don't they commemorate the Pope of Rome in their Divine Services?  I don't know what to call them, I'm sorry, but I'm sticking with "Roman Catholic Byzantine Rite," because that's as I see them.  "Greek Catholic" drives me nuts too, being of Greek heritage, of which 90+% of the people claim membership in the Eastern Orthodox Church, and being an Eastern Orthodox Christian, which is the "Catholic" church as stated in its canons.


P.S. You didn't correct my spelling of "Chornock."  

(I watched a good part of the "Opening of the Doors" service of Christ the Saviour Cathedral last night on the ACROD web site; I've viewed it before and find it inspiring.)

P.S.S. One thing that surprised me about that service, the bishop processes with the clergy during the Great Entrance.  Is that practice common outside of a Carpatho-Russian practice?  My experience in Greek practice, is that the bishop awaits the procession from the Beautiful Gates from where he receives the Chalice and Patten from the priest(s).
« Last Edit: March 10, 2013, 04:30:37 PM by Basil 320 »
"...Strengthen the Orthodox Community..."

Offline Alpo

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,319
  • My borcht recipe is better than your borcht recipe
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #71 on: March 10, 2013, 04:31:57 PM »
Bishop Arsenius of Joensuu

Where did you find this? In Finnish it's "Arseni" and I thought it's usually "Arseny" in English. Or is there some variation?

Offline mike

  • The Jerk
  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,078
  • Scarecrow is watching you
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Makurian Orthodox
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #72 on: March 10, 2013, 06:01:38 PM »
Bishop Arsenius of Joensuu

Where did you find this? In Finnish it's "Arseni" and I thought it's usually "Arseny" in English. Or is there some variation?

Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenius_%28name%29

Or are you asking, how do I know he was Lutheran?

Offline mabsoota

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,853
  • Kyrie eleison
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox (Coptic)
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #73 on: March 10, 2013, 06:22:54 PM »
i only skimmed this quickly, but father peter's (member on this site) bishop seems to be missing from this list:
metropolitan seraphim of the british orthodox section of the coptic orthodox church; former anglican.
he is also a kind and interesting person and knows huge chunks of orthodox church history  :)

Offline mike

  • The Jerk
  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,078
  • Scarecrow is watching you
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Makurian Orthodox
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #74 on: September 02, 2013, 11:54:04 AM »
Bishop Stephen (Dzubay) of Pittsburgh (former Catholic)
Archbishop James (Akkersdijk) of Hague (former Catholic)
« Last Edit: September 02, 2013, 12:01:48 PM by Michał Kalina »

Offline mike

  • The Jerk
  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,078
  • Scarecrow is watching you
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Makurian Orthodox
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #75 on: September 02, 2013, 12:52:11 PM »
Bishop Stephen (Dzubay) of Pittsburgh (former Catholic)

Apostatised later and went back to Vatican.

Offline mike

  • The Jerk
  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,078
  • Scarecrow is watching you
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Makurian Orthodox
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #76 on: September 16, 2013, 04:27:10 PM »
Bishop Igatius (Nichols) of Washington (former Anglican)
went vagante later

Bishop Joseph (Zhuk) of New Yersey (former catholic)
« Last Edit: September 16, 2013, 04:28:55 PM by Michał Kalina »

Offline ilyazhito

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 938
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #77 on: September 18, 2013, 10:02:20 AM »
Bishop Ignatius (Nichols) of Washington (former Anglican)
went vagante later

Bishop Joseph (Zhuk) of New Jersey (former catholic)
Spelling corrected. In addition, the current Russian hierarchs are probably converts from atheism, if you could call them that.

Offline podkarpatska

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,200
  • Pokrov
    • ACROD (home)
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #78 on: September 18, 2013, 11:10:15 AM »
Bishop Ignatius (Nichols) of Washington (former Anglican)
went vagante later

Bishop Joseph (Zhuk) of New Jersey (former catholic)
Spelling corrected. In addition, the current Russian hierarchs are probably converts from atheism, if you could call them that.

Some not doubt may be so, but not all.

Offline ilyazhito

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 938
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #79 on: September 21, 2013, 12:25:19 PM »
Bishop George Schaefer of Mayfield (ROCOR) is a former Roman Catholic who attended mass daily and served as an altar boy. He converted through the Greek Orthodox Church (GOAA), later went to the ROCOR parish in San Francisco, and even spent time on Mount Athos.
Bishop Jerome Shaw is a former Episcopalian from an Anglo family who converted to Orthodoxy after contact with ROCOR and being in Greece.

Offline mike

  • The Jerk
  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,078
  • Scarecrow is watching you
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Makurian Orthodox
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #80 on: October 17, 2013, 02:13:14 PM »
Bishop elect David (Mahaffey) of Sitka.

Offline Iconodule

  • Uranopolitan
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,137
  • "My god is greater."
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Ecumenical Patriarchate (ACROD)
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #81 on: October 17, 2013, 08:58:02 PM »
Bishop elect David (Mahaffey) of Sitka.

Former Methodist.
"A riddle or the cricket's cry
Is to doubt a fit reply." - William Blake

Offline mike

  • The Jerk
  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,078
  • Scarecrow is watching you
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Makurian Orthodox
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #82 on: January 12, 2014, 07:15:09 PM »
Bishop Tikhon (Hollosy) of Komarne.

Offline ilyazhito

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 938
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #83 on: January 18, 2014, 03:33:23 PM »
What was he before, and to which church does he belong now?

Offline mike

  • The Jerk
  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,078
  • Scarecrow is watching you
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Makurian Orthodox
Re: Convert hierarchs?
« Reply #84 on: January 18, 2014, 06:59:41 PM »
He is a retired bishop in the diocese of Presov. No idea what he used to be.