Author Topic: Local Veneration of Saints  (Read 3089 times)

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Offline Asteriktos

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Local Veneration of Saints
« on: December 16, 2008, 04:43:54 PM »
It's my understanding that people are sometimes approved for "local veneration" by a Local Church, a time before their actual glorification. Is such formal recognition of a potential saint a common practice?

Offline serb1389

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Re: Local Veneration of Saints
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2008, 05:28:11 PM »
I can give you 2 references. 

One is here at HC/HC..  we have 3 hierarch buried behind the chapel, on our seminary grounds. 

1.  Bishop Gerasimos of Abydos,

2.  Metropolitan Sylas of New Jersey

3.  Archbishop Iakovos of North and South America

All of these hierarchs have a particular connection to our school.  I will say this though, that Bishop Gerasimos was a spiritual father here on campus for over 20 years, and had a HUGE impact on students and life here on campus for many years. 

Many people to go his grave site and pray, and many more stories are told about him by professors, formers students, spiritual children, etc.  I would say that almost everyone who has encountered him or his story would call him "agios" or holy, but he is not canonized yet. 

A similar but somewhat more "extreme" story is that of Justin Popovic, who was a priest who many consider so much of a saint that they dare to depict him in iconography, WITH a halo, even though he has NOT been canonized. 

Some food for thought. 

Offline Asteriktos

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Re: Local Veneration of Saints
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2008, 08:44:56 PM »
Actually Justin Popovich was who I was thinking of when I started this thread. I had heard that "local veneration" of him has been approved, and wondered about this, especially since there are icons of him out there (I have one, and fwiw he was also my patron saint when I was christmated).

Offline serb1389

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Re: Local Veneration of Saints
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2008, 08:49:25 PM »
Actually Justin Popovich was who I was thinking of when I started this thread. I had heard that "local veneration" of him has been approved, and wondered about this, especially since there are icons of him out there (I have one, and fwiw he was also my patron saint when I was christmated).

yah...that's a tough one.  I have seen Icons of the halo around his head, but ironically I have never seen in the text "saint" Justin Popovic, only "father" justin popovic.  So...possibly a key distinction there in terms of iconography. 

I would say in general though, that it is OK for us to have a cult of veneration, however it must be tempered by the church as a whole, which includes the hierarchs and synod, etc. 

Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Local Veneration of Saints
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2008, 12:54:23 AM »
Is this one of the icons in question?


Offline Fr. George

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Re: Local Veneration of Saints
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2008, 08:31:52 AM »
Actually Justin Popovich was who I was thinking of when I started this thread. I had heard that "local veneration" of him has been approved, and wondered about this, especially since there are icons of him out there (I have one, and fwiw he was also my patron saint when I was christmated).

yah...that's a tough one.  I have seen Icons of the halo around his head, but ironically I have never seen in the text "saint" Justin Popovic, only "father" justin popovic.  So...possibly a key distinction there in terms of iconography.  

I would say in general though, that it is OK for us to have a cult of veneration, however it must be tempered by the church as a whole, which includes the hierarchs and synod, etc.  

Be careful about the "church as a whole" thing - remember, Saints are often commemorated "locally" (in the ecclesiological sense), and have local significance to local Churches; at best, Patriarchal/Archdiocesan groupings can and will recognize folks as Saints, but the idea is that God can and will reveal whomever He wills as a Saint, and often those Saints have significance to a particular community - which is why you'll have Saints commemorated in the Russian Church that are not in, say, the Serbian Church - it's not that the Serbs don't consider them saints, it's just that they have little significance to the Serbs, who have their own Saints that the Russians don't celebrate.
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Offline Asteriktos

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Re: Local Veneration of Saints
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2008, 01:45:03 PM »
Quote
Is this one of the icons in question?

I believe so, yes. That's the one I bought recently from Archangel books.

Offline serb1389

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Re: Local Veneration of Saints
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2008, 01:55:47 PM »
Is this one of the icons in question?



I was thinking of a different Icon actually.  I've never seen that Icon before...i'm not sure that it's "sanctioned"....Cleveland made a good point about this though...



Offline serb1389

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Re: Local Veneration of Saints
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2008, 01:56:15 PM »
Actually Justin Popovich was who I was thinking of when I started this thread. I had heard that "local veneration" of him has been approved, and wondered about this, especially since there are icons of him out there (I have one, and fwiw he was also my patron saint when I was christmated).

yah...that's a tough one.  I have seen Icons of the halo around his head, but ironically I have never seen in the text "saint" Justin Popovic, only "father" justin popovic.  So...possibly a key distinction there in terms of iconography.  

I would say in general though, that it is OK for us to have a cult of veneration, however it must be tempered by the church as a whole, which includes the hierarchs and synod, etc.  

Be careful about the "church as a whole" thing - remember, Saints are often commemorated "locally" (in the ecclesiological sense), and have local significance to local Churches; at best, Patriarchal/Archdiocesan groupings can and will recognize folks as Saints, but the idea is that God can and will reveal whomever He wills as a Saint, and often those Saints have significance to a particular community - which is why you'll have Saints commemorated in the Russian Church that are not in, say, the Serbian Church - it's not that the Serbs don't consider them saints, it's just that they have little significance to the Serbs, who have their own Saints that the Russians don't celebrate.

what if I were to say the "local church as a whole" ...would that make a difference for what you're thinking...

Offline Fr. George

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Re: Local Veneration of Saints
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2008, 02:29:33 PM »
what if I were to say the "local church as a whole" ...would that make a difference for what you're thinking...

Probably would!
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Offline serb1389

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Re: Local Veneration of Saints
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2008, 04:53:34 PM »
what if I were to say the "local church as a whole" ...would that make a difference for what you're thinking...

Probably would!

Well then...in light of that, my statement in its kernel, still stands. the entire local church of Serbia, the bishops, etc. synod, etc. have not declared Fr. Justin as a saint yet, even though people have a cult of veneration for him.  So, to make iconography of him is stepping outside the bounds of canonicity as well as ecclesiology, as I have presented it. 

In other words..."it ain't such a good idea"....

thoughts, concerns, etc.? :)

Offline CRCulver

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Re: Local Veneration of Saints
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2008, 10:17:13 AM »
It's my understanding that people are sometimes approved for "local veneration" by a Local Church, a time before their actual glorification. Is such formal recognition of a potential saint a common practice?

I recently attended a mini-conference of Romanian Orthodox students where the invited speaker repeatedly hammered the point that martyrs must be venerated immediately by anyone assured of their personal Orthodoxy, even if church authorities tried to surpress or delay such recognition.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2008, 10:18:34 AM by CRCulver »