OrthodoxChristianity.net
July 24, 2014, 09:25:50 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Portuguese Church canonical?  (Read 1638 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
mike
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,467


WWW
« on: December 12, 2008, 02:30:01 PM »

I'm confused by this

This metropolitan John wears epitrachelion during the Proskomidia so they may have not threatened him like bishop - so who let him go to the altar?. He also (luckily) didn't took part in the Liturgy as a member of canonical clergy (he wasn't wearing liturgical vestments), but what was he doing there?
« Last Edit: December 12, 2008, 02:45:38 PM by mike » Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
arimethea
Getting too old for this
Section Moderator
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Holy Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Patriarchate of Antioch
Posts: 2,968


Does anyone really care what you think?


« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2008, 08:15:28 PM »

I have heard similar stories of non-canonical groups participating in Russian services. People show up looking and acting Orthodox and it never crosses the minds of the Russians that there may be people out there who look and act like us but aren't part of us. He wasn't invited to serve so that makes it seem like they were just trying to show Christian hospitality towards him.
Logged

Joseph
Anastasios
Webdespota
Administrator
Merarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Old Calendarist
Posts: 10,440


Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Florina

anastasios0513
WWW
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2008, 11:27:15 PM »

It is my understanding that the way the Polish Church dealt with these people was irregular to begin with--namely, cessetion of communion with no canonical penalty.  What exactly does that do to the person if you don't depose them but you break communion with them? highly odd. From what I read, the Portuguese bishops certainly did a lot of very odd things, and might have deserved to be censured, but this is not the proper way to go about it, because any other synod could just bring these bishops in.

Given the tension between Russia and Romania in Moldova, I wonder if in fact the MP is trying to get a stronger foot in the door, and since the breakaway Moldovan Church is in communion with the Portuguese (I think?) maybe they come along as part of the package? All speculation on my part.
Logged

Met. Demetrius's Enthronement

Disclaimer: Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism may not be accurate expositions of Orthodox teaching.

I served as an Orthodox priest from June 2008 to April 2013, before resigning for personal reasons
mike
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,467


WWW
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2008, 05:36:54 AM »

I have heard similar stories of non-canonical groups participating in Russian services.

Could You send me some articles or other sources about this?
Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
arimethea
Getting too old for this
Section Moderator
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Holy Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Patriarchate of Antioch
Posts: 2,968


Does anyone really care what you think?


« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2008, 11:30:47 PM »

I have heard similar stories of non-canonical groups participating in Russian services.

Could You send me some articles or other sources about this?
There are no articles, just people I know who were with non-canonical groups who before they came into the canonical church had traveled to Russia. We here knew they were with a non-canonical group but if you looked at them they dressed, and acted like they were Orthodox and they themselves considered themselves to be be Orthodox so when they traveled to Russia they would say they are Orthodox and because they looked the part they were accepted to be Orthodox.
Logged

Joseph
CCTE
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Romanian Patriarchate
Posts: 84


Patriarch Daniel


« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2008, 01:44:50 AM »

 Shocked
Who are this people? I never heard of them. Are they in comunion with mainstream orthodox churches?
Logged

Sorry if my English is not perfect
mike
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,467


WWW
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2008, 04:33:55 AM »

So I can dress like a bishop, then go to Russia, Moldova, Ukraine or somewhere and say to a diocesan bishop of there that I'm also a bishop and participate with him in the service? No sense to me.

Aren't any letters or something like that necessary to participate in services outside you own diocese?

TO: CCTE
They were set up by ROCOR in 1960'. In 1978 they broke up with them and became in communion with Greek Old Calendarists. In 1988 they broke up with them and became without communion with any other Church neither canonical nor non-canonical

In 1990 they were recognized bud Church of Poland as canonical and Poles gave them status of autonomous. In 2001 unsurprisingly they broke up communion with Church of Poland (this means that with other canonical EO Churches also).


Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
Mexican
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic Orthodox Church of Alexandria
Posts: 489


« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2008, 09:06:00 PM »

They're certainly not on a regular status right now but they're certainly not lunatics or vagante. The Portuguese Orthodox Church is a real Church with theologically trained Orthodox clergy.

They broke Communion with the Polish Church because of Church politics, not because of anything else. Their chances to be canonically received by a regular Church are very high (if it was not for the political attacks of the POC) and I really hope that they are soon restored to regular status within World Orthodoxy.
Logged
Anastasios
Webdespota
Administrator
Merarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Old Calendarist
Posts: 10,440


Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Florina

anastasios0513
WWW
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2008, 11:15:33 PM »


In 1990 they were recognized bud Church of Poland as canonical and Poles gave them status of autonomous. In 2001 unsurprisingly they broke up communion with Church of Poland (this means that with other canonical EO Churches also).

An American I know who lived in Poland at the time and was a member of the Polish Church told me the Polish Church broke communion with the Portuguese.

I would be interested to know for certain who broke with whom and if there is any document to demonstrate it? Because I have been under the impression that the Polish Church broke with the Portuguese but did not depose them--which is a rather odd situation.
Logged

Met. Demetrius's Enthronement

Disclaimer: Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism may not be accurate expositions of Orthodox teaching.

I served as an Orthodox priest from June 2008 to April 2013, before resigning for personal reasons
Tags: Portugal 
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.05 seconds with 35 queries.