Portuguese Church canonical?

[Michał Kalina]

I'm confused by this

This metropolitan John wears epitrachelion during the Proskomidia so they may have not threatened him like bishop - so who let him go to the altar?. He also (luckily) didn't took part in the Liturgy as a member of canonical clergy (he wasn't wearing liturgical vestments), but what was he doing there?

[arimethea]

I have heard similar stories of non-canonical groups participating in Russian services. People show up looking and acting Orthodox and it never crosses the minds of the Russians that there may be people out there who look and act like us but aren't part of us. He wasn't invited to serve so that makes it seem like they were just trying to show Christian hospitality towards him.

[Anastasios]

It is my understanding that the way the Polish Church dealt with these people was irregular to begin with--namely, cessetion of communion with no canonical penalty.  What exactly does that do to the person if you don't depose them but you break communion with them? highly odd. From what I read, the Portuguese bishops certainly did a lot of very odd things, and might have deserved to be censured, but this is not the proper way to go about it, because any other synod could just bring these bishops in.

Given the tension between Russia and Romania in Moldova, I wonder if in fact the MP is trying to get a stronger foot in the door, and since the breakaway Moldovan Church is in communion with the Portuguese (I think?) maybe they come along as part of the package? All speculation on my part.

[Michał Kalina]

I have heard similar stories of non-canonical groups participating in Russian services.

Could You send me some articles or other sources about this?

[arimethea]

I have heard similar stories of non-canonical groups participating in Russian services.

Could You send me some articles or other sources about this?

There are no articles, just people I know who were with non-canonical groups who before they came into the canonical church had traveled to Russia. We here knew they were with a non-canonical group but if you looked at them they dressed, and acted like they were Orthodox and they themselves considered themselves to be be Orthodox so when they traveled to Russia they would say they are Orthodox and because they looked the part they were accepted to be Orthodox.

[CCTE]

 
Who are this people? I never heard of them. Are they in comunion with mainstream orthodox churches?

[Michał Kalina]

So I can dress like a bishop, then go to Russia, Moldova, Ukraine or somewhere and say to a diocesan bishop of there that I'm also a bishop and participate with him in the service? No sense to me.

Aren't any letters or something like that necessary to participate in services outside you own diocese?

TO: CCTE
They were set up by ROCOR in 1960'. In 1978 they broke up with them and became in communion with Greek Old Calendarists. In 1988 they broke up with them and became without communion with any other Church neither canonical nor non-canonical

In 1990 they were recognized bud Church of Poland as canonical and Poles gave them status of autonomous. In 2001 unsurprisingly they broke up communion with Church of Poland (this means that with other canonical EO Churches also).

[Mexican]

They're certainly not on a regular status right now but they're certainly not lunatics or vagante. The Portuguese Orthodox Church is a real Church with theologically trained Orthodox clergy.

They broke Communion with the Polish Church because of Church politics, not because of anything else. Their chances to be canonically received by a regular Church are very high (if it was not for the political attacks of the POC) and I really hope that they are soon restored to regular status within World Orthodoxy.

[Anastasios]

In 1990 they were recognized bud Church of Poland as canonical and Poles gave them status of autonomous. In 2001 unsurprisingly they broke up communion with Church of Poland (this means that with other canonical EO Churches also).

An American I know who lived in Poland at the time and was a member of the Polish Church told me the Polish Church broke communion with the Portuguese.

I would be interested to know for certain who broke with whom and if there is any document to demonstrate it? Because I have been under the impression that the Polish Church broke with the Portuguese but did not depose them--which is a rather odd situation.

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