Author Topic: "Consecrate Russia to the Immaculate"?  (Read 1693 times)

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Offline VirSpeluncaeOrthodoxae

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"Consecrate Russia to the Immaculate"?
« on: December 11, 2008, 04:13:06 PM »
I found this today: http://www.renewamerica.us/images/columns/081210abbott.pdf. I'm not an expert (heck I can't even remember how to make an HTML link) so what do ya'll think?
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Offline Papist

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Re: "Consecrate Russia to the Immaculate"?
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2008, 04:26:48 PM »
There article seems to ignore the fact that the Russian Orthodox Church does not accept the Immaculate heart of Mary devotion that is tied to the dogma of the Immaculate Conception, rejected by all Orthodox Churches. I can easily see why the Russian Orthodox would be offended.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: "Consecrate Russia to the Immaculate"?
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2008, 04:48:26 PM »
Is this in any way connect to Dr. Miravalle's Vox Populi idiocy? It has that smell all over it.
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Offline Orthodoc

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Re: "Consecrate Russia to the Immaculate"?
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2008, 05:21:34 PM »
There article seems to ignore the fact that the Russian Orthodox Church does not accept the Immaculate heart of Mary devotion that is tied to the dogma of the Immaculate Conception, rejected by all Orthodox Churches. I can easily see why the Russian Orthodox would be offended.


[The "Immaculata" is one of the titles of Mary from the visions of Our Lady of Fatima, who promised that, If Russia were consecrated to her, Russia would be freed from the Communists and from the yoke of Communism. And, wasn't Kremlin not being used as a church, but as the symbol of the Communist Party?]

This statement in itself shows the absurdity of such a proclaimation by the the Theotokos.

Both Scripture and tradition tell us that Mary was chosen for two tasks -

1)  To be the instrument whereby God became man (the Incarnation)
2)  To spend the rest of her life pointing others towards her son.

And you want us to believe that she appeared to some children in Fatima requesting that Russia be CONSECRATED TO HER instead of her son!  Thereby putting herself above her son in importance?  And pointing to herself instead of her son?

Facts regarding Mary And Her Centuries Ties To Russia -

Russia has been traditionally known as "the House of Holy Mary", and
God's Mother has been regarded as the holy protectress of Russia for
centuries.
There were more churches devoted to Her Nativity,
Presentation, Annunciation, Assumption, and Intercession than to
important events from the life of Christ. Many more churches were
built to honour the holy images of God's Mother, such as "Our Lady of
Vladimir", "Our Lady of Smolensk", and "Our Lady of Kazan".

The cult of God's Mother was introduced to Russia by Andrei
Bogolyubski who brought to his new capital the Byzantine icon "Our
Lady of Vladimir". During the most important events of Russian
history, such as the Polish invasion of 1612 or the French invasion of
1812, numerous prayers for victory were offered to this and other
important images of God's Mother. Even the Russian tricolour flag,
first introduced in 1667, was modeled after the traditional colours of
her clothes.

At the beginning of the 20th centuries, strange things started to
happen with holy icons. "Our Mother of Kazan" was stolen from the
Kazan monastery and was apparently burnt by thieves to ashes; "Our
Mother of Smolensk" (or the Hodegetria) started to "cry" with resin
(the icon perished during the WWII). The Fyodorovskaya icon of God's
Mother at Kostroma's Ipatievsky Monastery was considered the holy
protectress of the Romanov family: the first Romanov tsar's mother
blessed him for the reign with this icon. This holy image (said to be
painted by Apostle Luke but dated by analysis only to the 9th century)
started to blacken from 1911 on, and by 1917 it became so black that
almost nothing could be seen on it. Other divine images were
scattered: "Our Lady of Vladimir" and the Blachernitissa (made in the
7th century from the ashes of Christian martyrs) are exhibited at the
Tretyakov Gallery, "Our Lady of Tikhvin" is now in Chicago (has since been returned), and only
the tragic masterpiece "Our Lady of Tolga" (1314) was yesterday
(22-Aug-2003) returned to the Tolga Convent at Yaroslavl.

Our Lady of Vladimir:
www.pbs.org/weta/faceofrussia/...e/1100/12c.html
Our Lady of Kostroma ("Fyodorovskaya", after the restoration):
www.aquarium.ru:8080/misc/icon...orovsk_kost.jpg
Our Lady of Blachernae:
www.aquarium.ru:8080/misc/icon...033_vlahern.jpg
Our Lady of Tolga:
www.aquarium.ru:8080/misc/icon.../022_tolgsk.jpg

++++++++++++
Oh Lord, Save thy people and bless thine inheritance.
Grant victory to the Orthodox Christians over their adversaries.
And by virtue of thy Cross preserve thy habitation.

Offline Papist

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Re: "Consecrate Russia to the Immaculate"?
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2008, 05:23:06 PM »
There article seems to ignore the fact that the Russian Orthodox Church does not accept the Immaculate heart of Mary devotion that is tied to the dogma of the Immaculate Conception, rejected by all Orthodox Churches. I can easily see why the Russian Orthodox would be offended.


[The "Immaculata" is one of the titles of Mary from the visions of Our Lady of Fatima, who promised that, If Russia were consecrated to her, Russia would be freed from the Communists and from the yoke of Communism. And, wasn't Kremlin not being used as a church, but as the symbol of the Communist Party?]

This statement in itself shows the absurdity of such a proclaimation by the the Theotokos.

Both Scripture and tradition tell us that Mary was chosen for two tasks -

1)  To be the instrument whereby God became man (the Incarnation)
2)  To spend the rest of her life pointing others towards her son.

And you want us to believe that she appeared to some children in Fatima requesting that Russia be CONSECRATED TO HER instead of her son!  Thereby putting herself above her son in importance?  And pointing to herself instead of her son?


First I agree with both 1) and 2). Second. I am not trying to get you to believe anything.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: "Consecrate Russia to the Immaculate"?
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2008, 08:00:51 PM »
There article seems to ignore the fact that the Russian Orthodox Church does not accept the Immaculate heart of Mary devotion that is tied to the dogma of the Immaculate Conception, rejected by all Orthodox Churches. I can easily see why the Russian Orthodox would be offended.


[The "Immaculata" is one of the titles of Mary from the visions of Our Lady of Fatima, who promised that, If Russia were consecrated to her, Russia would be freed from the Communists and from the yoke of Communism. And, wasn't Kremlin not being used as a church, but as the symbol of the Communist Party?]

This statement in itself shows the absurdity of such a proclaimation by the the Theotokos.

Both Scripture and tradition tell us that Mary was chosen for two tasks -

1)  To be the instrument whereby God became man (the Incarnation)
2)  To spend the rest of her life pointing others towards her son.

And you want us to believe that she appeared to some children in Fatima requesting that Russia be CONSECRATED TO HER instead of her son!  Thereby putting herself above her son in importance?  And pointing to herself instead of her son?

Facts regarding Mary And Her Centuries Ties To Russia -

Russia has been traditionally known as "the House of Holy Mary", and
God's Mother has been regarded as the holy protectress of Russia for
centuries.
There were more churches devoted to Her Nativity,
Presentation, Annunciation, Assumption, and Intercession than to
important events from the life of Christ. Many more churches were
built to honour the holy images of God's Mother, such as "Our Lady of
Vladimir", "Our Lady of Smolensk", and "Our Lady of Kazan".

The cult of God's Mother was introduced to Russia by Andrei
Bogolyubski who brought to his new capital the Byzantine icon "Our
Lady of Vladimir". During the most important events of Russian
history, such as the Polish invasion of 1612 or the French invasion of
1812, numerous prayers for victory were offered to this and other
important images of God's Mother. Even the Russian tricolour flag,
first introduced in 1667, was modeled after the traditional colours of
her clothes.

At the beginning of the 20th centuries, strange things started to
happen with holy icons. "Our Mother of Kazan" was stolen from the
Kazan monastery and was apparently burnt by thieves to ashes; "Our
Mother of Smolensk" (or the Hodegetria) started to "cry" with resin
(the icon perished during the WWII). The Fyodorovskaya icon of God's
Mother at Kostroma's Ipatievsky Monastery was considered the holy
protectress of the Romanov family: the first Romanov tsar's mother
blessed him for the reign with this icon. This holy image (said to be
painted by Apostle Luke but dated by analysis only to the 9th century)
started to blacken from 1911 on, and by 1917 it became so black that
almost nothing could be seen on it. Other divine images were
scattered: "Our Lady of Vladimir" and the Blachernitissa (made in the
7th century from the ashes of Christian martyrs) are exhibited at the
Tretyakov Gallery, "Our Lady of Tikhvin" is now in Chicago (has since been returned), and only
the tragic masterpiece "Our Lady of Tolga" (1314) was yesterday
(22-Aug-2003) returned to the Tolga Convent at Yaroslavl.

Our Lady of Vladimir:
www.pbs.org/weta/faceofrussia/...e/1100/12c.html
Our Lady of Kostroma ("Fyodorovskaya", after the restoration):
www.aquarium.ru:8080/misc/icon...orovsk_kost.jpg
Our Lady of Blachernae:
www.aquarium.ru:8080/misc/icon...033_vlahern.jpg
Our Lady of Tolga:
www.aquarium.ru:8080/misc/icon.../022_tolgsk.jpg

++++++++++++


Just a story about Our Lady of Tikhvin: it's guardian for many years was my parish priest who had married me.  He got it because he was a boy acolyte serving with the Latvian bishop of Riga.  They had gotten scattered during WWII, and when the Americans asked the bishop "who's he?" pointing to the future priest, his grace said "my son."  And so they ended up in America.

Father continued to remeniss on his "happiest days,"  hundled with the whole rag tag band in Churches and barns across Europe, hundled around the Tikhvin icon as the bombs went fell around them.

I've heard of apparitions happening in Orthodoxy, but never cults developing around them like Fatima, Lourdes or Guadalupe (btw, Dr. Miravalle the other day made the claim that the good bishop misunderstood the Nahatl that St. Juan Diego said "she who crushes the stone dragon," and adding "that's Genesis 3:15."  No, its your mistranslation.). And this drawing attention to herself (also, I notice the article capitalizes "She"), reminds me that the accusations of Mariolatry are not all unfounded.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth