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Offline TinaG

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Catholic Church Music
« on: December 03, 2008, 01:28:47 PM »
I don't want to offend anyone, but I have a question/comment about the Gather Comprehensive hymnal.  I just attended a funeral yesterday and the church was using this hymnal.  Another RC friend said their church uses is also.  It's been a while since I last attended a mass, but I was very suprised at the music in this hymnal.  I don't recall musical arrangements like this.  I'm trying to avoid using the word 'dreadful, but I thought I was listening to Andrew Lloyd Weber numbers.  Is this typical of RC music today?  What is the general opinion on this hymnal? 
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Offline Schultz

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2008, 01:44:03 PM »
I don't want to offend anyone, but I have a question/comment about the Gather Comprehensive hymnal.  I just attended a funeral yesterday and the church was using this hymnal.  Another RC friend said their church uses is also.  It's been a while since I last attended a mass, but I was very suprised at the music in this hymnal.  I don't recall musical arrangements like this.  I'm trying to avoid using the word 'dreadful, but I thought I was listening to Andrew Lloyd Weber numbers.  Is this typical of RC music today?  What is the general opinion on this hymnal? 


It depends on who you ask.  In my area (Baltimore), the older folk, especially women in their 70s-80s, eat this stuff up, as do the hippie-dippie musician crowd that seem to occupy all the musical director chairs in the various parishes.  The younger you get, though, the more dissatisfied the opinions.  People in their 30s and under often feel short-changed by having to sing all the incredibly dated sounding hymns in the We Gather hymnal while being forced to practically ignore the more majestic hymns like "O Sacred Head Surrounded". 

I grew up singing alot of the OCP hymns in Catholic school and I admit I have a soft spot in my heart for tunes like "Gentle Woman" and "City of God".  However, as I got older and took my faith more seriously, I hated singing them at Mass, especially when "they" started messing with the words.  For example, there's a line in "City of God" that goes:

"In God is love, in Him there is no darkness"

The last time I was at a Latin rite Mass that wasn't a funeral, at the co-cathedral of Mary our Queen no-less, the guitar choir sang:

"In God is love, in GOD there is no darkness"

I walked out.

I'm sure lubeltri and Papist have had similar experiences.  More tradtionally minded musicians are hopeful that the pontificate of Pope Benedict will have the effect of restoring more traditional music.  His reign has certainly had an effect on the way some priests orient their altars, either all the way to the East or at least having a crucifix as a central point when celebrating ad populum.   However, many have noted that the musical programs at various Papal Masses, even in St Peter's, is often more of the same.  Hopefully, for Roman Catholics, this will change also.

This is, of course, my experience and others may disagree.
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Offline Andrea

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2008, 01:50:17 PM »
I haven't seen the Gather Comprehensive hymnal-the parish we attended for a while used an OCP hymnal. And yes, the music most of the time is dreadful and cringe-worthy. The day my kids were baptized they sang this lovely number: http://www.spiritandsong.com/musicondemand/songs/266
 (The arrangement on that site is slightly funkier). You're right, it seems like a lot of the music has a show-tune quality. 

I see in looking through the table of contents of the hymnal you mentioned, there is a lot of Marty Haugen. I think his "Mass of Creation" is pretty common in Catholic parishes, at least most of the Masses we've been to have used it.  I know a lot of people though that don't care for his music at all.

I spent a few years at a traditional Episcopal church singing beautiful hymns with the choir. When we entered the Catholic church the music was especially painful for me to hear. 

Edited to fix link



« Last Edit: December 03, 2008, 01:51:16 PM by Andrea »

Offline Papist

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2008, 01:58:29 PM »
I will have to agree with everything that Shultz posted.
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Offline Elisha

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2008, 02:10:39 PM »
I attended a Mass recently at a church near where I go skydiving.  The link Andrea provided seemed to be close to the music I heard.  Besides the Mass at the ordination I attended last year, this was probably only the second in over 10 years.  I was disappointed.

Offline lubeltri

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2008, 02:13:55 PM »
It is wretched. Whenever I go to an unknown parish and hear some woman stand up in front and say, "Good morning. Our 'gathering song' is so-and-so on page so-and-so in the blue Gather book. Please Rise." my legs want to rise, all right, and skedaddle out of there!

It seems like half of the dreck in that hymnal is from Marty Haugen and David Haas.

It is unfortunately quite common in American parishes---though the trend is downward, thank God---only aging boomer types really like it. It is the worst hymnal on the market.


Offline lubeltri

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2008, 02:13:56 PM »
Hi Tina,

This book is an excellent read. It has become a classic, the definitive book on the subject:

http://www.amazon.com/Why-Catholics-Cant-Sing-Catholicism/dp/0824511530


Offline Mickey

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2008, 02:18:04 PM »
For example, there's a line in "City of God" that goes:

"In God is love, in Him there is no darkness"

The last time I was at a Latin rite Mass that wasn't a funeral, at the co-cathedral of Mary our Queen no-less, the guitar choir sang:

"In God is love, in GOD there is no darkness"

I walked out.

Ah, you have just reminded me of the terrible revision of the Divine Liturgy in the Byzantine Catholic Church. When I was still a part of that Church, they released this revision. The word "men" was removed from the Creed (For us "men" and for our salvation...).  And the phrase "Who loves mankind" was changed to "Who loves us all".  This was done so as not to offend women, but every Byzantine Catholic woman that I knew (including my wife) was offended by the gender neutral language.

When political correctness and secular humanism is allowed to revise the Liturgy, the door is opened for further abuses.

The Liturgy is suppose to change the world--not the other way around.

Thank you for listening to my rant.  :-\

Offline wynd

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2008, 06:06:15 PM »
I'm sure lubeltri and Papist have had similar experiences.  More tradtionally minded musicians are hopeful that the pontificate of Pope Benedict will have the effect of restoring more traditional music.  His reign has certainly had an effect on the way some priests orient their altars, either all the way to the East or at least having a crucifix as a central point when celebrating ad populum.   However, many have noted that the musical programs at various Papal Masses, even in St Peter's, is often more of the same.  Hopefully, for Roman Catholics, this will change also.

This is, of course, my experience and others may disagree.

That is my experience as well. One of the most disappointing moments I can remember was when I asked my pastor why we used OCP and/or praise and worship music instead of Gregorian chant, since chant was the venerable tradition of the Latin church and Vatican II spoke so highly of it. He replied, "I know you're right and I agree with you, but OCP/praise and worship is what reaches people, and to others such as yourself who want more reverence I can only say mea culpa." :(

Hopefully Pope Benedict can continue his work in restoring a sense of the sacred to the OF Mass.

Offline Myrrh23

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2008, 06:13:38 PM »
Growing up in the RCC, I hated the music we had to sing. It was too Protestant to me, while I loved singing the Latin songs, such as Agnus Dei. It got worse in college when the popular kids with the guitar and sometimes the drums would belt out a sort of rock n roll kind of Catholic music. We often had the rehearsed speech that Lubeltri describes in my youth RCC. :D
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Offline Heorhij

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2008, 06:33:44 PM »
I absolutely admire the old, classical Roman Catholic liturgical music. Since my early childhood, it kept mesmerizing me, and it still does. When I was a little boy, I used to sing in a boys' choir (it's hard to believe now, but I really had a beautiful second discanto voice when I was a little kid). Even though this was the anti-theist Soviet Union, some items in our repertoire were RC liturgical; for example, we sang several fragments from G.B. Pergolesi's "Stabat Mater," and of course "Ave Maria." The pieces from "Stabat Mater" are among my all-time favorites from all music of all times and cultures, especially "Quando Corpus..."

On the other hand... yes, I, too, was appaled, shocked when I visited our local RC church in our small Southern US town and heard some terrible cacophony there, when young people were just beating on guitar strings and "singing" something that resembled very badly performed "Christian Rock" (arrrrrgh). Abomination. :(
« Last Edit: December 03, 2008, 06:49:21 PM by Heorhij »
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Offline prodromas

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2008, 07:54:57 PM »
Although sadly I have never been to Mass, Yesterday I bought a CD called "The Preists" which is a beautiful C-D chanted by 3 Roman Catholic Preists, I heard Ava Maria and it was so beautiful. I am glad that all my experiences with "Western Music" have been joyful and tasteful.
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Offline VirSpeluncaeOrthodoxae

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2008, 12:14:46 AM »
I sing for a Catholic Church (they pay me) and I am forced to sing that crap! The blue Gather hymnal is chock full of banal, idiotic melodies by that duo of destruction Haugen and Haas, and they try to be cute with dotted sixteenth notes in the melodies. Martin Luther would've been offended by this neo-pagan drivel, especially "Canticle of the Sun"! This stuff was written for the vague rubrics of the Novus Ordo (New Order). It would fit the St. Gregory DL like an elevator belongs in an outhouse. Once in a while they have sing some classic latin pieces but every once in a while I have to pick up that blue book of Lucifer. I can do it only because I'm being paid and it's not my church.

Seriously folks, go to a typical Novus Ordo Catholic "community" and listen to it.
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Offline TinaG

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2008, 03:24:33 AM »
I would never say so to my friend because overall the funeral was wonderful.  My friend's eulogy of her mother was a 4 tissue reflection.  The responsorial hymn, Shepherd Me O Lord, was beautiful.  But, Here I Am Lord (#686) - gag, gag.  That one was definitely show tune.  On Eagle's Wings (#611) and City of God (678)- right up there too.  I never thought I'd say the Lutheran music I grew up with wasn't too bad in comparison.
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Offline Heorhij

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2008, 09:45:50 AM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNt13Vw-K6Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEigZTmYf60

What in the world are people looking for, why guitars, "rock," cheap "sweet" goat-like "singing" in falcettos, trivial easy tunes, trivial easy words - when God has already given us THIS splendor?...
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Offline Lily

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2008, 01:40:55 PM »
It's funny when people describe the hippie Catholic music as Protestant- Growing up Lutheran we sang 4 part Bach chorales!

I do miss some of the Masses we sang when I was a music major in college, like the Faure Requiem.  I also liked singing the early stuff like Palestrina.



Offline Andrea

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2008, 01:47:02 PM »
I would never say so to my friend because overall the funeral was wonderful.  My friend's eulogy of her mother was a 4 tissue reflection.  The responsorial hymn, Shepherd Me O Lord, was beautiful.  But, Here I Am Lord (#686) - gag, gag.  That one was definitely show tune.  On Eagle's Wings (#611) and City of God (678)- right up there too.  I never thought I'd say the Lutheran music I grew up with wasn't too bad in comparison.

The parish we were attending loved Here I Am Lord.  It was sung quite a bit. ugh.

Offline Papist

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2008, 02:33:42 PM »
Bad Church music is one of the reasons I often find myself attending the local Byzantine Catholic Church.
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Offline Athanasios

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2008, 06:59:55 PM »
AH!! Bad music in the Liturgy -- it's been a living nightmare for the past 30-40 years. Not just the junk they "borrowed" from the Protestants (i.e., Amazing Grace), but the stuff that the likes of Haas and Haugen have written. There is one hymn called "Gather Us In" that is popular for the Processional. One line in it says "give us the courage to enter the song" -- how smart to pray for courage to belt out this drivel.

Now, it hasn't all been bad -- there are a handful of good hymns that have come out of this. There are even a couple Psalm settings that are excellent and many that are just ok.

One problem is that OCP and GIA have a marketing grip on this market, so that many parishes have been enslaved to the OCP line of products. And it is hard to break free.


Probably the best Catholic Hymnal today is the Adoremus Hymnal.
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Offline Athanasios

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2008, 07:02:40 PM »
Ah, you have just reminded me of the terrible revision of the Divine Liturgy in the Byzantine Catholic Church. When I was still a part of that Church, they released this revision. The word "men" was removed from the Creed (For us "men" and for our salvation...).  And the phrase "Who loves mankind" was changed to "Who loves us all".  This was done so as not to offend women, but every Byzantine Catholic woman that I knew (including my wife) was offended by the gender neutral language.

When political correctness and secular humanism is allowed to revise the Liturgy, the door is opened for further abuses.

The Liturgy is suppose to change the world--not the other way around.

Thank you for listening to my rant.  :-\

But, that's not an alteration of the Liturgy - but of the translations of the texts of the Liturgy.
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Offline Athanasios

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2008, 07:04:18 PM »
For example, there's a line in "City of God" that goes:

"In God is love, in Him there is no darkness"

The last time I was at a Latin rite Mass that wasn't a funeral, at the co-cathedral of Mary our Queen no-less, the guitar choir sang:

"In God is love, in GOD there is no darkness"

I walked out.

I don't see what you're seeing as the objection. What's the difference between the use of the pronoun and the noun it references?
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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2008, 07:21:29 PM »
For example, there's a line in "City of God" that goes:

"In God is love, in Him there is no darkness"

The last time I was at a Latin rite Mass that wasn't a funeral, at the co-cathedral of Mary our Queen no-less, the guitar choir sang:

"In God is love, in GOD there is no darkness"

I walked out.

I don't see what you're seeing as the objection. What's the difference between the use of the pronoun and the noun it references?
It's the change to gender-neutral language that is the issue, AISI.  And in a way that actually erodes the poetic flow of the line.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2008, 07:25:14 PM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline Athanasios

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2008, 07:26:35 PM »
For example, there's a line in "City of God" that goes:

"In God is love, in Him there is no darkness"

The last time I was at a Latin rite Mass that wasn't a funeral, at the co-cathedral of Mary our Queen no-less, the guitar choir sang:

"In God is love, in GOD there is no darkness"

I walked out.

I don't see what you're seeing as the objection. What's the difference between the use of the pronoun and the noun it references?
It's the change to gender-neutral language that is the issue, AISI.

But, it's GOD! For one thing, at least to me, God is a masculine word. And I truly don't see a problem with using the word God.

Now, the intentions of the switchers may be questioned - but the change itself is unobjectionable - in my mind.
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Offline wynd

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2008, 09:49:57 PM »
Probably the best Catholic Hymnal today is the Adoremus Hymnal.

I prefer this one ;)

Offline Athanasios

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2008, 09:55:06 PM »
Probably the best Catholic Hymnal today is the Adoremus Hymnal.

I prefer this one ;)

But, with all due respect, the Graduale Romanum is not a hymnal;)
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Offline Athanasios

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #25 on: December 06, 2008, 09:57:00 PM »
Here is a question for the Orthodox posters:

If you could take one hymn or chant from the treasury of Latin Catholic sacred music and use it in the Divine Liturgy at your church ... which one would it be?
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Offline SolEX01

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2008, 01:45:57 AM »
Here is a question for the Orthodox posters:

If you could take one hymn or chant from the treasury of Latin Catholic sacred music and use it in the Divine Liturgy at your church ... which one would it be?

None.

Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2008, 03:49:09 AM »

Offline prodromas

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2008, 09:30:09 AM »
Here is a question for the Orthodox posters:

If you could take one hymn or chant from the treasury of Latin Catholic sacred music and use it in the Divine Liturgy at your church ... which one would it be?

Ava Maria without a doubt, I absolutely love it.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #29 on: December 07, 2008, 10:07:10 AM »
Here is a question for the Orthodox posters:

If you could take one hymn or chant from the treasury of Latin Catholic sacred music and use it in the Divine Liturgy at your church ... which one would it be?

Dies Irae.

Actually, we use Te Deum.  Thank you St. Ambrose on your day.

Otherwise, why not go Western Rite and get the whole thing?

Although sadly I have never been to Mass, Yesterday I bought a CD called "The Preists" which is a beautiful C-D chanted by 3 Roman Catholic Preists, I heard Ava Maria and it was so beautiful. I am glad that all my experiences with "Western Music" have been joyful and tasteful.

Not totally off topic, but I have had the pleasure to go to Western Rite DL a couple times this year, both St. Gregory and St. Tikhon.  The music was from their own hymnal, which seemed all traditional (I had gone to a Latin mass in high school, and learned the words and chant).  The last time they sung "All Mortal Flesh Keep Silent" during communion, which I had first heard years ago by a Latin choir.  Awesome, just awesome.

Btw, I love the Angelus, even say it in Latin (I usually pray in Arabic or English).  Those in my former Latin High School (where I was the
mad dog Lutheran") would probably drop dead if they knew that.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2008, 10:25:07 AM by ialmisry »
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Offline ialmisry

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For example, there's a line in "City of God" that goes:

"In God is love, in Him there is no darkness"

The last time I was at a Latin rite Mass that wasn't a funeral, at the co-cathedral of Mary our Queen no-less, the guitar choir sang:

"In God is love, in GOD there is no darkness"

I walked out.

I don't see what you're seeing as the objection. What's the difference between the use of the pronoun and the noun it references?

The mentality behind it.

Ah, you have just reminded me of the terrible revision of the Divine Liturgy in the Byzantine Catholic Church. When I was still a part of that Church, they released this revision. The word "men" was removed from the Creed (For us "men" and for our salvation...).  And the phrase "Who loves mankind" was changed to "Who loves us all".  This was done so as not to offend women, but every Byzantine Catholic woman that I knew (including my wife) was offended by the gender neutral language.

When political correctness and secular humanism is allowed to revise the Liturgy, the door is opened for further abuses.

The Liturgy is suppose to change the world--not the other way around.

Thank you for listening to my rant.  :-\

But, that's not an alteration of the Liturgy - but of the translations of the texts of the Liturgy.

Yeah, like that other "translation issue," filioque.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2008, 10:20:02 AM by ialmisry »
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
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Offline NorthernPines

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #31 on: December 07, 2008, 12:57:43 PM »
Here is a question for the Orthodox posters:

If you could take one hymn or chant from the treasury of Latin Catholic sacred music and use it in the Divine Liturgy at your church ... which one would it be?

Well since Christmas is on my mind, Adeste Fideles, O Come all ye faithful
without a doubt! :) It is my favorite Christmas Carol/Hymn, and while I do sing it 100's of times at home every year, and our choir does do some Christmas carols AFTER Liturgy, I would love to be able to sing this DURING Liturgy. Oh yes, and O Come O Come Emanuel, which I read actually was written pre-schism somewhere....those 2 are my favorite Nativity Hymns and it would be really nice to hear them during Liturgy or other services. Can't really think of any others. While I personally love western Sacred Music, especially Gregorian Chant, these are the only 2 that I always want to sing during Liturgy. All the rest I'm satisified listening/singing privately.

Good fun question, hope no one minds me interjecting my thoughts. :)



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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #32 on: December 07, 2008, 05:39:59 PM »
Bad Church music is one of the reasons I often find myself attending the local Byzantine Catholic Church.

And you may not realize but the text AND the music were all changed in the Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic organization oh, what, starting maybe two years ago.  If you knew the music BEFORE the change and heard the music and the lyrics AFTER the change you would say, "Yikes."

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #33 on: June 08, 2016, 02:07:24 AM »
This thread deserves to rise from the dead.

Crucem sanctam subiit, awesome song, not sure if actually a templar chant but epic anyway
Gaudete, this particular interpretation is really good despite the annoying accent, I like this choir
Kyrie eleison, thrilling Corsic chant
Santa Maria, strela do dia, Galician-Portuguese cantiga
Como poden, a cantiga from the same chansonnier
« Last Edit: June 08, 2016, 02:08:00 AM by RaphaCam »
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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #34 on: June 08, 2016, 03:35:19 AM »
^That Corsican chant is nice.
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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #35 on: June 08, 2016, 09:14:44 AM »
This thread deserves to rise from the dead.

I think there have been a newer, similar thread about Latin or Western chant, but I can't find it...
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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #36 on: June 08, 2016, 12:27:25 PM »
^That Corsican chant is nice.
I always shiver in the beginning.


This thread deserves to rise from the dead.

I think there have been a newer, similar thread about Latin or Western chant, but I can't find it...
I think so, but I looked for it and found nothing...
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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #38 on: June 20, 2016, 08:29:47 AM »
It is wretched. Whenever I go to an unknown parish and hear some woman stand up in front and say, "Good morning. Our 'gathering song' is so-and-so on page so-and-so in the blue Gather book. Please Rise." my legs want to rise, all right, and skedaddle out of there!

It seems like half of the dreck in that hymnal is from Marty Haugen and David Haas.

It is unfortunately quite common in American parishes---though the trend is downward, thank God---only aging boomer types really like it. It is the worst hymnal on the market.

Spot on. I think once all the boomers die off it will get better.

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #39 on: June 29, 2016, 01:26:26 PM »
I don't want to offend anyone, but I have a question/comment about the Gather Comprehensive hymnal.  I just attended a funeral yesterday and the church was using this hymnal.  Another RC friend said their church uses is also.  It's been a while since I last attended a mass, but I was very suprised at the music in this hymnal.  I don't recall musical arrangements like this.  I'm trying to avoid using the word 'dreadful, but I thought I was listening to Andrew Lloyd Weber numbers.  Is this typical of RC music today?  What is the general opinion on this hymnal?


This "hymnal" is very common in my neck of the woods. It is, as you say, dreadful, and I would say offensive. It is chock full of Protestant hymns and secular pieces.

Yes, it is typical in the Novus Ordo world.
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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #40 on: August 21, 2016, 08:08:54 AM »
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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #42 on: October 18, 2016, 12:04:35 AM »
I suffered hagen hymns for 27 years of my life.

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #43 on: October 20, 2016, 03:37:35 AM »
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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #44 on: November 25, 2016, 04:43:39 PM »
Here is a question for the Orthodox posters:

If you could take one hymn or chant from the treasury of Latin Catholic sacred music and use it in the Divine Liturgy at your church ... which one would it be?

As a former RC I always loved the 'Pange Lingua' , also 'Holy God we praise Thy Name' sung during Benediction.  I wonder if they still celebrate Benediction? Its a beautiful Service.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2016, 04:45:41 PM by JoeS2 »

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #45 on: November 29, 2016, 01:15:09 AM »
Bad Church music is one of the reasons I often find myself attending the local Byzantine Catholic Church.

But even bad hymns that is sung from the heart is genuine and worthy of God's attention.
I am Orthodox and even we have some sour notes now and then but we show our prayers in the form of singing and I know that God is listening.

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #47 on: December 01, 2016, 11:24:25 PM »
Here is a question for the Orthodox posters:

If you could take one hymn or chant from the treasury of Latin Catholic sacred music and use it in the Divine Liturgy at your church ... which one would it be?

As a former RC I always loved the 'Pange Lingua' , also 'Holy God we praise Thy Name' sung during Benediction.  I wonder if they still celebrate Benediction? Its a beautiful Service.
Yes, Benediction usually marks the end of a Holy Hour when parishes do that.

I wouldn't mix rites, but the Sequences from the Roman Rite for Easter, Pentecost (Veni Creator Spiritus), Requiem Mass (Dies Irae) and the Stabat Mater which I forgot which Mass it is for, are quite impressive.
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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #48 on: December 01, 2016, 11:29:44 PM »
Probably the best Catholic Hymnal today is the Adoremus Hymnal.

I prefer this one ;)
You have won the thread  :D
All they had to do was translate that and adapt the melodies! Preferably in the Old Roman style with the restored isons...
Quote from: Michael, Pope of Rome
We should fortify ourselves with the truths of the Faith. Our main focus should be to become saints. Unfortunately some spend much of their time in either trying to sort things out or what is worse, trying to convince the world that they are right. If we all aim at sanctifying ourselves, God will intervene and He will straighten things out. We cannot do it without Him.

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #49 on: December 02, 2016, 07:02:39 AM »
Here is a question for the Orthodox posters:

If you could take one hymn or chant from the treasury of Latin Catholic sacred music and use it in the Divine Liturgy at your church ... which one would it be?

As a former RC I always loved the 'Pange Lingua' , also 'Holy God we praise Thy Name' sung during Benediction.  I wonder if they still celebrate Benediction? Its a beautiful Service.
Yes, Benediction usually marks the end of a Holy Hour when parishes do that.

I wouldn't mix rites, but the Sequences from the Roman Rite for Easter, Pentecost (Veni Creator Spiritus), Requiem Mass (Dies Irae) and the Stabat Mater which I forgot which Mass it is for, are quite impressive.
Stabat Mater is usually sung at Stations of the Cross, a verse after each station.
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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #50 on: December 02, 2016, 12:05:36 PM »
Bad Church music is one of the reasons I often find myself attending the local Byzantine Catholic Church.

But even bad hymns that is sung from the heart is genuine and worthy of God's attention.
I am Orthodox and even we have some sour notes now and then but we show our prayers in the form of singing and I know that God is listening.
Here's a fun 1970s hymn still sung in Roman Churches: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kI7dy2W9oc&spfreload=5
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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #51 on: December 02, 2016, 01:36:58 PM »
Do RC parishes still sing Mozart's Requiem?

(link removed - LS)

Because I like it.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2016, 03:57:16 PM by LizaSymonenko »
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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #52 on: December 02, 2016, 03:30:24 PM »
Do RC parishes still sing Mozart's Requiem?

(link removed - LS)

Because I like it.

It's a Pony Kind of Christmas: We Wish You a Merry Christmas ??? Quite different from the Requiem.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2016, 03:57:47 PM by LizaSymonenko »
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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #53 on: December 02, 2016, 04:35:57 PM »
Oh shoot! Wrong video! Sorry. LOL

Mozart's Requiem:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPlhKP0nZII

Dominika, can you please delete my last post?
« Last Edit: December 02, 2016, 04:40:31 PM by byhisgrace »
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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #54 on: December 02, 2016, 08:54:45 PM »
Here is a question for the Orthodox posters:

If you could take one hymn or chant from the treasury of Latin Catholic sacred music and use it in the Divine Liturgy at your church ... which one would it be?

As a former RC I always loved the 'Pange Lingua' , also 'Holy God we praise Thy Name' sung during Benediction.  I wonder if they still celebrate Benediction? Its a beautiful Service.
Yes, Benediction usually marks the end of a Holy Hour when parishes do that.

I wouldn't mix rites, but the Sequences from the Roman Rite for Easter, Pentecost (Veni Creator Spiritus), Requiem Mass (Dies Irae) and the Stabat Mater which I forgot which Mass it is for, are quite impressive.

Stabat Mater is the sequence for September 15, the Feast of the Seven Sorrows of the BVM. It was suppressed after Trent but restored shortly thereafter. There used to be a second feast of the Seven Sorrows on the Friday before Holy Week; I'm not sure if the sequence was used then as well.
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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #55 on: December 03, 2016, 10:13:36 AM »
Oh shoot! Wrong video! Sorry. LOL

Mozart's Requiem:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPlhKP0nZII

Dominika, can you please delete my last post?

I'm not able to do it, you have to PM the moderator of this section or the global one.

Here is a question for the Orthodox posters:

If you could take one hymn or chant from the treasury of Latin Catholic sacred music and use it in the Divine Liturgy at your church ... which one would it be?

As a former RC I always loved the 'Pange Lingua' , also 'Holy God we praise Thy Name' sung during Benediction.  I wonder if they still celebrate Benediction? Its a beautiful Service.
Yes, Benediction usually marks the end of a Holy Hour when parishes do that.

I wouldn't mix rites, but the Sequences from the Roman Rite for Easter, Pentecost (Veni Creator Spiritus), Requiem Mass (Dies Irae) and the Stabat Mater which I forgot which Mass it is for, are quite impressive.

Stabat Mater is the sequence for September 15, the Feast of the Seven Sorrows of the BVM. It was suppressed after Trent but restored shortly thereafter. There used to be a second feast of the Seven Sorrows on the Friday before Holy Week; I'm not sure if the sequence was used then as well.

I thought Stabat Mater is the sequence of the Holy Friday? It's still done here on this day, but usually not before the Gospel.
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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #56 on: December 03, 2016, 10:17:36 AM »
Do RC parishes still sing Mozart's Requiem?

(Link removed - LS)

Because I like it.

Amazing.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2016, 03:58:38 PM by LizaSymonenko »
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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #57 on: December 03, 2016, 10:27:53 AM »
I've liked everything I've heard from the San Antonio Vocal Arts Ensemble, personally.

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #58 on: December 05, 2016, 07:52:21 AM »
Oh shoot! Wrong video! Sorry. LOL

Mozart's Requiem:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPlhKP0nZII

Dominika, can you please delete my last post?

I'm not able to do it, you have to PM the moderator of this section or the global one.

Here is a question for the Orthodox posters:

If you could take one hymn or chant from the treasury of Latin Catholic sacred music and use it in the Divine Liturgy at your church ... which one would it be?

As a former RC I always loved the 'Pange Lingua' , also 'Holy God we praise Thy Name' sung during Benediction.  I wonder if they still celebrate Benediction? Its a beautiful Service.
Yes, Benediction usually marks the end of a Holy Hour when parishes do that.

I wouldn't mix rites, but the Sequences from the Roman Rite for Easter, Pentecost (Veni Creator Spiritus), Requiem Mass (Dies Irae) and the Stabat Mater which I forgot which Mass it is for, are quite impressive.

Stabat Mater is the sequence for September 15, the Feast of the Seven Sorrows of the BVM. It was suppressed after Trent but restored shortly thereafter. There used to be a second feast of the Seven Sorrows on the Friday before Holy Week; I'm not sure if the sequence was used then as well.

I thought Stabat Mater is the sequence of the Holy Friday? It's still done here on this day, but usually not before the Gospel.

It is used devotionally that day in many places, but not prescribed by the rubrics. In that case it isn't really a sequence, but just a hymn. The only days with a sequence are Easter, Pentecost, Corpus Christi, and the Seven Sorrows. In the traditional rite, All Souls and the Requiem Masses have Dies Irae, but that was removed in the Novus Ordo. The 2002 edition of the Missal for some reason moved the place of the sequence from immediately before the Gospel to before the Alleluia; they are also only mandatory in the Novus Ordo on Easter and Pentecost.
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and have been instructed in Your glories,
   and yet I have become occupied in shameful things!

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #59 on: December 05, 2016, 08:13:39 AM »
Hi Tina,

This book is an excellent read. It has become a classic, the definitive book on the subject:

http://www.amazon.com/Why-Catholics-Cant-Sing-Catholicism/dp/0824511530



I have this book somewhere. A Catholic friend gave it to me a while ago. I need to find it.

Selam
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http://bookstore.authorhouse.com/Products/SKU-000984270/Rebel-Song.aspx

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #60 on: December 05, 2016, 06:35:46 PM »
Oh shoot! Wrong video! Sorry. LOL

Mozart's Requiem:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPlhKP0nZII

Dominika, can you please delete my last post?

"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

May the Blessed Light shine Forth

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #61 on: December 06, 2016, 06:03:09 AM »
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Offline wynd

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #62 on: December 06, 2016, 11:07:59 AM »
Probably the best Catholic Hymnal today is the Adoremus Hymnal.

I prefer this one ;)
You have won the thread  :D

Yes! Only took 8 years this time.

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #63 on: December 06, 2016, 10:21:23 PM »
Oh shoot! Wrong video! Sorry. LOL

Mozart's Requiem:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPlhKP0nZII

Dominika, can you please delete my last post?
*Picture snipped*
Seriously, does Mozart's Requiem play in any Latin mass, whether contemporary or traditional?
Oh Holy Apostle, St. John, pray for us

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #64 on: December 07, 2016, 02:05:00 PM »
Oh shoot! Wrong video! Sorry. LOL

Mozart's Requiem:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPlhKP0nZII

Dominika, can you please delete my last post?
*Picture snipped*
Seriously, does Mozart's Requiem play in any Latin mass, whether contemporary or traditional?

I think yes, at least at some funerals of important people.
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Offline Cidalia73

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #65 on: December 15, 2016, 07:59:04 AM »
Reminds me of the irritation I felt upon hearing the opening song at the Mass for my daughter's confirmation: One Love, by Bob Marley.  >:(

My fellow friends didn't understand why I was upset about it.  Clearly they don't understand the importance and solemnity of Mass.  At least, how it should be.  They are products of modernism.

This Sunday, I will be attending an Orthodox Liturgy (moving towards converting).  At least my ears won't be assaulted with pop music during a reverent occasion.

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #66 on: December 15, 2016, 11:55:10 AM »
Oh shoot! Wrong video! Sorry. LOL

Mozart's Requiem:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPlhKP0nZII

Dominika, can you please delete my last post?
*Picture snipped*
Seriously, does Mozart's Requiem play in any Latin mass, whether contemporary or traditional?

Well, for the All Souls Day mass at National Cathedral they used the Durufle requiem. Oh wait-- they're Episcopalians, so no problems with having good music. :P

Offline jwinch2

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #67 on: December 27, 2016, 09:57:40 PM »
Well, for the All Souls Day mass at National Cathedral they used the Durufle requiem. Oh wait-- they're Episcopalians, so no problems with having good music. :P

Funny, and not entirely untrue either. 
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/Themes/default/images/bbc/unformat.gif
Thankfully, I go to an Ordinariate Parish so I get great music all the time.  It definitely was not that way at previous parishes.

Of course, traditional Roman Catholics have beautiful music as well.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMjNevd2gXs  The linked is from the Benedictine Congregation of Solesmes, which has my favorite take on Gregorian Chant. 

Offline Keble

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #68 on: December 28, 2016, 04:05:23 PM »
Well, for the All Souls Day mass at National Cathedral they used the Durufle requiem. Oh wait-- they're Episcopalians, so no problems with having good music. :P

Funny, and not entirely untrue either. 
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/Themes/default/images/bbc/unformat.gif
Thankfully, I go to an Ordinariate Parish so I get great music all the time.

ex-Episcopalians? Cheating.

Offline jwinch2

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #69 on: December 29, 2016, 10:25:19 PM »
Well, for the All Souls Day mass at National Cathedral they used the Durufle requiem. Oh wait-- they're Episcopalians, so no problems with having good music. :P

Funny, and not entirely untrue either. 
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/Themes/default/images/bbc/unformat.gif
Thankfully, I go to an Ordinariate Parish so I get great music all the time.

ex-Episcopalians? Cheating.

I think you mean "winning".  And they have been Catholic for over 30 years now.  The irony is that one of the few places in the Archdiocese where one does not find the Cramner table is in the parish which founded the Anglican Use in the Catholic Church.    ;D

Offline byhisgrace

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #70 on: January 15, 2017, 06:04:27 PM »
Oh Holy Apostle, St. John, pray for us

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #72 on: March 18, 2017, 07:04:20 PM »
Polish Roman Catholic hymn Krzyżu Chrystusa (Oh Cross of Christ) in various settings:
By national choir "Mazowsze"

By a choir from Kalisz

In Belarussian


Polish Roman Catholic hymn Krzyżu Święty (Oh Holy Cross) that's based on Latin hymn Pange, lingua gloriosi proelum certaminis
Contemporary chant

Old chant

In Belarussian

And the hymn above in Spanish
Arr. Antonio Alcalde

Arr. Francisco, Tomás Aragüés
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« Last Edit: March 31, 2017, 05:18:31 PM by Dominika »
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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #75 on: May 03, 2017, 01:40:37 PM »
There is one hymn called "Gather Us In" that is popular for the Processional. One line in it says "give us the courage to enter the song" -- how smart to pray for courage to belt out this drivel.

Gather Us In (Latin)
I think you can say ~ In the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and post with charitable and prayerful intentions.

Offline wynd

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #76 on: May 04, 2017, 12:05:30 PM »
Gather Us In (Latin)

Somehow I don't think this is what traditional RCs mean when they say "Bring back the Latin!" :D

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #78 on: August 21, 2017, 08:31:12 PM »
Honestly, I have the fondest memories of some Catholic hymns, like "Gentle Woman," "Stabat Mater," and "Though the Mountains May Fall."

Although I do have a preference for the Latin high mass if we are talking Roman Catholic liturgy, I still have a fondness for these Novus Ordo songs which can be moving in English.

However, out of all the Roman hymns which I have heard throughout my whole life  - my personal favorite is still the Gregorian Kyrie Eleison in Roman Catholic liturgy.

Here is one rendition of it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXWqvgQPDrw
« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 08:36:13 PM by LivenotoneviL »
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Offline MalpanaGiwargis

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #79 on: August 22, 2017, 11:20:44 AM »
I think the chants at the Requiem Mass and the Office of the Dead are my favorites in the Gregorian repertoire. My favorite of all is the antiphon Ego Sum Resurrectio et Vita ("I am the Resurrection and Life"), sung with the Canticle of Zechariah at Lauds of the Dead and by the priest at the graveside.

Also, In Paradisum.
Woe is me, that I have read the commandments,
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and have been instructed in Your glories,
   and yet I have become occupied in shameful things!

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #80 on: August 22, 2017, 01:03:03 PM »
I think the chants at the Requiem Mass and the Office of the Dead are my favorites in the Gregorian repertoire. My favorite of all is the antiphon Ego Sum Resurrectio et Vita ("I am the Resurrection and Life"), sung with the Canticle of Zechariah at Lauds of the Dead and by the priest at the graveside.

Oh, I wasn't aware it's orignally Gregorian chant! I hear it every year in Polish at the ecumenical (Orthodox and Roman Catholic) procession on the cemetery belonging to my parish. In Polish (however, I hear it chanted by better cantors) sounds it in such way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRyQjL3z2kc

Your link doesn't work for me, but I've found this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvOidZcaGh0
Paschal alleluia with the hymn we're talking about. What a coincidence - today is the 1st anniversary of the funeral of fr. Zbigniew that I liked so much but I couldn't be because of the interview with the Antiochian patriarch.
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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #82 on: September 20, 2017, 11:27:44 PM »
See #4 of the Five Ways to Ruin the Mass, which can be summarized in two words: We Gather.
Sanctus Deus
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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #83 on: September 25, 2017, 07:38:05 PM »
I think you can say ~ In the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and post with charitable and prayerful intentions.

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #84 on: September 25, 2017, 09:26:29 PM »
Here is a question for the Orthodox posters:

If you could take one hymn or chant from the treasury of Latin Catholic sacred music and use it in the Divine Liturgy at your church ... which one would it be?

We have all of it in the Western Rite.

I wish the Western Rites would make more use of O Gladsome Light and integrate Ho Monoges into the liturgy, perhaps after the Credo, as a bulwark against Christological error.
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Offline MalpanaGiwargis

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #85 on: September 25, 2017, 11:45:14 PM »
Here is a question for the Orthodox posters:

If you could take one hymn or chant from the treasury of Latin Catholic sacred music and use it in the Divine Liturgy at your church ... which one would it be?

We have all of it in the Western Rite.

I wish the Western Rites would make more use of O Gladsome Light and integrate Ho Monoges into the liturgy, perhaps after the Credo, as a bulwark against Christological error.

It's probably better overall for the Western Rites to maintain their integrity and minimize Byzantinizations. Dropping references to the Filioque is one thing, but altering the structure of the Western services seems unnecessary.
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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #86 on: September 26, 2017, 10:04:42 AM »
Here is a question for the Orthodox posters:

If you could take one hymn or chant from the treasury of Latin Catholic sacred music and use it in the Divine Liturgy at your church ... which one would it be?

We have all of it in the Western Rite.

I wish the Western Rites would make more use of O Gladsome Light and integrate Ho Monoges into the liturgy, perhaps after the Credo, as a bulwark against Christological error.

It's probably better overall for the Western Rites to maintain their integrity and minimize Byzantinizations. Dropping references to the Filioque is one thing, but altering the structure of the Western services seems unnecessary.
+1

Except some tropariosn that have been used in the West, like of the Nativity of the Theotokos or Pascha.
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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #87 on: September 26, 2017, 10:22:03 AM »
Here is a question for the Orthodox posters:

If you could take one hymn or chant from the treasury of Latin Catholic sacred music and use it in the Divine Liturgy at your church ... which one would it be?

I can list a couple:

Te Deum
Salve Regina
Caedmon's hymn
Tota pulchra es
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Offline MalpanaGiwargis

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #88 on: September 26, 2017, 11:20:44 PM »
Here is a question for the Orthodox posters:

If you could take one hymn or chant from the treasury of Latin Catholic sacred music and use it in the Divine Liturgy at your church ... which one would it be?

We have all of it in the Western Rite.

I wish the Western Rites would make more use of O Gladsome Light and integrate Ho Monoges into the liturgy, perhaps after the Credo, as a bulwark against Christological error.

It's probably better overall for the Western Rites to maintain their integrity and minimize Byzantinizations. Dropping references to the Filioque is one thing, but altering the structure of the Western services seems unnecessary.
+1

Except some tropariosn that have been used in the West, like of the Nativity of the Theotokos or Pascha.

Yes, but most of those were taken into the Western rites in the first millennium – I figure they're pretty "naturalized" by now!
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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #90 on: November 20, 2017, 03:51:07 PM »
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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #91 on: November 30, 2017, 07:16:54 AM »
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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #94 on: January 31, 2018, 02:08:11 PM »
O Ecclesia, by Hildegard of Bingen, a song about the glory of the Church and the martyrdom of St. Ursula. The ison-like sound at the background and the melody make the chant sound a bit Eastern-ish.
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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #95 on: July 30, 2018, 06:15:29 PM »
Playlists of Gregorian chants (mainly in Latin) for various occcasion by Polish Paulines:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCa50spsH5ImCrH-LJ77Yy8w/playlists
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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #96 on: July 31, 2018, 02:08:00 AM »
"My daughter, look at My Heart surrounded with thorns with which ungrateful men pierce it at every moment by their blasphemies and ingratitude. You, at least, try to console Me, and say that I promise to assist at the hour of death, with all the graces necessary for salvation, all those who, on the first Saturday of five consecutive months go to confession and receive Holy Communion, recite five decades of the Rosary and keep Me company for a quarter of an hour" - The Theotokos to Sr. Lucia.

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #97 on: July 31, 2018, 03:30:38 AM »
Anyone interested in Old Roman Chant?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kdka1WN1c8c

That's the way the Church of Rome worshipped before the invention of the Gregorian Chant. Similar but quite different. Sounds more eastern ... Wonderful!
« Last Edit: July 31, 2018, 03:32:19 AM by Halik »
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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #98 on: August 02, 2018, 03:29:55 AM »
Anyone interested in Old Roman Chant?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kdka1WN1c8c

That's the way the Church of Rome worshipped before the invention of the Gregorian Chant. Similar but quite different. Sounds more eastern ... Wonderful!
Great! It does sound more similar to the East than Gregorian chant does... But I still find in unmistakably Western. All the contemplativeness and blues.  :P
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"My daughter, look at My Heart surrounded with thorns with which ungrateful men pierce it at every moment by their blasphemies and ingratitude. You, at least, try to console Me, and say that I promise to assist at the hour of death, with all the graces necessary for salvation, all those who, on the first Saturday of five consecutive months go to confession and receive Holy Communion, recite five decades of the Rosary and keep Me company for a quarter of an hour" - The Theotokos to Sr. Lucia.

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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #100 on: August 02, 2018, 10:54:49 AM »
Polish Catholic song based on st. John Chrystostom Paschal homily:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2c6AqxHyb7M
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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #101 on: August 18, 2018, 09:45:42 PM »
Really interesting video on the Tenebrae services at Wyoming Catholic College https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDHEol4S6Q8
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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #102 on: December 12, 2018, 03:32:40 PM »
Polish Catholic song for st. Nicholas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JElxgLI_Msw
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Re: Catholic Church Music
« Reply #103 on: December 14, 2018, 08:53:06 AM »
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