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Author Topic: Byzantine Chant in English by Subdeacon Karim El-Far  (Read 3047 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: December 02, 2008, 02:58:08 PM »

After rising from the tomb and breaking the bonds of Hades asunder, Thou didst repeal the sentence of death, O Lord, thereby delivering all men from the snares of the enemy. After manifesting Thyself to Thine Apostles, Thou didst send them forth to preach, and through them Thou didst grant peace to the whole world, O Thou Who alone art rich in mercy.

*Musical texts used with permission of  St. Anthony's Greek Orthodox Monastery
Florence, Arizona

Byzantine Chant in English by Subdeacon Karim El-Far
Year: 2008

Plagal First Mode
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGQHOGj34B0

Plagal Second Mode
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGMTz3GXGPM

Grave Mode
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGhD7hCq8sA

Plagal Fourth Mode
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArVyMxE4IDg
« Last Edit: December 02, 2008, 02:59:10 PM by kelfar » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2008, 03:14:17 PM »

You're great! Now, How about the Axion Estin in Pl First mode patriarchal (Pringos) Smiley Smiley Smiley
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« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2008, 03:43:39 PM »

You're great! Now, How about the Axion Estin in Pl First mode patriarchal (Pringos) Smiley Smiley Smiley

One of my (and my wife's) favorites.  It was a regular for us at school on Sundays during a week of Plagal of the 1st.
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« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2008, 05:06:00 PM »

I will record it soon and will post it on youtube and my website.

In Christ,
SBDK
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« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2008, 05:08:44 PM »

I am glad you are using St. Anthony's Monastery's translations & music; they have transcribed a wonderful variety of pieces, including some of the beautiful in-between Modes (Defteroprotos, Frigios, Protos Heptafonos, etc.).
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« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2008, 10:54:03 AM »

I am glad you are using St. Anthony's Monastery's translations & music; they have transcribed a wonderful variety of pieces, including some of the beautiful in-between Modes (Defteroprotos, Frigios, Protos Heptafonos, etc.).
You mean Acem Kurdi, don't you?  Wink
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ndv73U1ifSw
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« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2008, 11:11:07 AM »

You mean Acem Kurdi, don't you?  Wink
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ndv73U1ifSw

LOL.  No.

In case you actually don't know what I'm referring to, it was the style of the Liturgical responses (between the Cherubic hymn and Axion Estin) chanted during the Liturgy at the Phanar when the Pope visited (I think there are both Audio files and video Podcasts on iTunes, but I could be wrong).
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« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2008, 11:45:00 AM »

We're probably saying the same thing...Phrygian (or Frygios) is the Plagal of 1st Mode of the Byzantine Music that has on Vou & Zo the phthora of the enharmonic scale, thus changing the scale from diatonic to enharmonic. In the Ottoman or Arabo-Persian music, this maqam is called Acem Kurdi 
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« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2008, 12:36:48 PM »

We're probably saying the same thing...Phrygian (or Frygios) is the Plagal of 1st Mode of the Byzantine Music that has on Vou & Zo the phthora of the enharmonic scale, thus changing the scale from diatonic to enharmonic. In the Ottoman or Arabo-Persian music, this maqam is called Acem Kurdi  

Yes, we are.  Never heard the "Acem Kurdi" name before - sorry.  Plagal of the 1st Enharmonic is indeed it.
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« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2008, 02:50:39 PM »

It is called "Ajam-Kurd" or Friyous Plagal First Mode.

Kurd on Vou and Ajam on Zou. It is very beautiful makam / mode.
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« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2008, 03:33:00 PM »

It is called "Ajam-Kurd" or Friyous Plagal First Mode.

Kurd on Vou and Ajam on Zou. It is very beautiful makam / mode.
We call it Acem-Kurdi (pron. Ajem-Kyurdi) down here (under Ottoman influence off course). What's interesting is that the 4-5 greatest composers in the history of secular Ottoman music, are either Greek, like Peter the Peloponnesian (18th century, composer of more than 100 secular songs and hundreds of hymns)


Antonaki Laftadji, Vassilaki Efendi, Nikolaki Kemecendji, Zacharia Efendi, Prens Kantemir (Prince Demetrios Kantemiris, 17th century), or Armenian, like Baba Hamparsum Limonciyan 
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« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2008, 05:29:01 AM »

Now I have to ask Sbdc Karim to sing some Old Roman Chant in Latin and Gregorian in English and see how beautiful they sound too. wink wink, nudge nudge. I will provide some notation shortly if you can give a few mins attention to that chore.
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« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2008, 05:44:30 AM »

Now I have to ask Sbdc Karim to sing some Old Roman Chant in Latin and Gregorian in English and see how beautiful they sound too. wink wink, nudge nudge. I will provide some notation shortly if you can give a few mins attention to that chore.
While he could, it wouldn't sound as authentic.
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« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2008, 06:41:17 PM »

Why would ancient latin chant sound authentic when Lycourgos Angelopoulos or Sr Marie Keyrouz sings it but not when Sbd Karim El-Far sings it?
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« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2008, 07:46:20 PM »

Why would ancient latin chant sound authentic when Lycourgos Angelopoulos or Sr Marie Keyrouz sings it but not when Sbd Karim El-Far sings it?

1) Gregorian <> Old Roman - they are distinctly different.

2) It is debateable whether Lycourgos's interpretation (e.g. Ensemble Organum CD) is a traditional representation of Old Roman chant.  He readily admits it in the insert to the CD.  I have not near Sr Marie Keyrouz sing Old Roman chant.  Also, I would also argue that Lycourgos is more experienced vocally with singing western music.  And btw, I live two miles from the Subdeacon, so I am familiar with him.  He is a legitimate expert in Byzantine chant....and can play a mean keyboard for you too.  Smiley
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« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2008, 09:00:31 PM »

It is interesting that Elisha is making the assumption that I can not sing Gregorian Chant or it will not sound Authentic if I sing it.

I will not say more...

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« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2008, 10:08:05 PM »

Why would ancient latin chant sound authentic when Lycourgos Angelopoulos or Sr Marie Keyrouz sings it but not when Sbd Karim El-Far sings it?

1) Gregorian <> Old Roman - they are distinctly different.

2) It is debateable whether Lycourgos's interpretation (e.g. Ensemble Organum CD) is a traditional representation of Old Roman chant.  He readily admits it in the insert to the CD.  I have not near Sr Marie Keyrouz sing Old Roman chant.  Also, I would also argue that Lycourgos is more experienced vocally with singing western music.  And btw, I live two miles from the Subdeacon, so I am familiar with him.  He is a legitimate expert in Byzantine chant....and can play a mean keyboard for you too.  Smiley

I've studied a little bit with Lykourgo...he's pretty sure that he's right about his interpretation.  In fact he wrote his PhD on it...so...
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« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2008, 10:16:16 PM »

...so what about the people who disagree with him that have PhD's? Wink
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« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2008, 10:31:42 PM »

...so what about the people who disagree with him that have PhD's? Wink

They should take it up with him.  Just be ready to read through the whole thing.  The version he showed us was 1,500 pages long....in Greek...good times. 
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« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2008, 10:38:35 PM »

...so what about the people who disagree with him that have PhD's? Wink

They should take it up with him.  Just be ready to read through the whole thing.  The version he showed us was 1,500 pages long....in Greek...good times. 

lol.

My friend is a pro Angelopoulos guy and tried to explain to me the difference between A. and the "other party" but my head was spinning when they started talking about modes of intonation...I think it was...?  When he played me samples all I could think was they both sounded good haha.
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« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2008, 08:45:57 AM »

...so what about the people who disagree with him that have PhD's? Wink

They should take it up with him.  Just be ready to read through the whole thing.  The version he showed us was 1,500 pages long....in Greek...good times. 

lol.

My friend is a pro Angelopoulos guy and tried to explain to me the difference between A. and the "other party" but my head was spinning when they started talking about modes of intonation...I think it was...?  When he played me samples all I could think was they both sounded good haha.

LOL!  Father you have no idea.  He was talking to us about disonances and how sound waves would have sounded different based on weather patterns in damp castles and etc.  At least half of the dissertation is scientific, in the sense that it discusses just sound in general and musical instruments from the "gregorian chant" period of history (so to say).  He showed us some pieces as well, and it sounded fairly different from most "gregorian chant" i've heard. 

Anyway, it was an interesting topic to discuss with him, but like I said...very detailed. 
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