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Offline new illumined

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Mysticism- Is there an application today
« on: November 13, 2008, 11:26:02 PM »
Wikepedia defines mysticism:

Quote
Mysticism (from the Greek μυστικός, mystikos, an initiate of a mystery religion[1]) is the pursuit of communion with, identity with, or conscious awareness of an ultimate reality, divinity, spiritual truth, or God through direct experience, intuition, or insight. Mysticism usually centers around a practice or practices intended to nurture that experience or awareness.

Is this something that is defined in the Orthodox church? How is mysticism practiced, if at all? Would one define interaction with Angels as a part of mysticism? Do Angels interact with Christians today?

If I understand this correctly Mysticism in Christianity is defined as Theosis.

I could be confused by all this. Could someone explain the relationship between how humans and the supernatural interact in coming together to manifest all things for God's glory and the establishment of the future kingdom. Obviously there are Saints living in the supernatural state and maybe these would be included in this idea of interaction on earth.

Sorry if this sounds confusing. ???

Thanks

NI


Offline DanM

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Re: Mysticism- Is there an application today
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2008, 12:53:00 AM »
Is this something that is defined in the Orthodox church? How is mysticism practiced, if at all? Would one define interaction with Angels as a part of mysticism? Do Angels interact with Christians today?
If I understand this correctly Mysticism in Christianity is defined as Theosis.

Mysticism--like capitalism, rationalism and conservatism--has so many definitions that its use ought to be proscribed.
The safest bet is to pray and keep the commandments.  This way we do not have to worry about mystical experiences, which, if they are genuine, are supra-rational and, if they are not, are irrelevant.
DanM



Offline SolEX01

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Re: Mysticism- Is there an application today
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2008, 01:43:30 AM »
Is this something that is defined in the Orthodox church? How is mysticism practiced, if at all? Would one define interaction with Angels as a part of mysticism? Do Angels interact with Christians today?

There is mysticism in the Orthodox Church.  One will find mysticism at most Orthodox monasteries.  Each monastery practices mysticism in slightly different ways.  Personally, I do not buy much into Orthodox mysticism since I focus on the praxis (e.g. practice) of Orthodoxy.  Abuse of mysticism leads to big problems....

Orthodox Christians do not normally interact with Angels.

If I understand this correctly Mysticism in Christianity is defined as Theosis.

NO!  I discussed Theosis with someone a few years ago.  While Theosis itself is a mystery, it's not mysticism.

I could be confused by all this. Could someone explain the relationship between how humans and the supernatural interact in coming together to manifest all things for God's glory and the establishment of the future kingdom. Obviously there are Saints living in the supernatural state and maybe these would be included in this idea of interaction on earth.

There is no supernatural state, as you describe, in the Orthodox faith.

Offline Asteriktos

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Re: Mysticism- Is there an application today
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2008, 02:20:25 AM »
Quote
Quote
Mysticism is the pursuit of communion with, identity with, or conscious awareness of an ultimate reality, divinity, spiritual truth, or God through direct experience, intuition, or insight. Mysticism usually centers around a practice or practices intended to nurture that experience or awareness.
Is this something that is defined in the Orthodox church? How is mysticism practiced, if at all?

Actually I would say that the wiki definition you gave is fairly close to a description of the "life in Christ," that life which we live as Christians as we attempt to work out our salvation with God's help (Phil. 2:12-13), being "labourers together with God" (1 Cor. 3:9), "partakers of the divine nature" (2 Pet. 1:4), and performing works of faith and labors of love (1 Thes. 1:3; 2 Thes. 1:11). In that sense, using that definition, all Orthodox life ought to be mystical.

Quote
Would one define interaction with Angels as a part of mysticism? Do Angels interact with Christians today?

Well, we all have a guardian angel which guides us, protects us, and prays for us. I don't think many people have actual contact with angels, though, and if they did it'd probably be more likely demonic tricks.

Quote
If I understand this correctly Mysticism in Christianity is defined as Theosis.

According to the definition you provided, sure, I think that's fair to say. I would say though that many people would define mysticism differently than you are doing (thus the response by SolEX01, which disagrees with my response). It all depends on how you are defining your terms. But I would say that "the pursuit of communion with... God" is theosis.

Quote
I could be confused by all this. Could someone explain the relationship between how humans and the supernatural interact in coming together to manifest all things for God's glory and the establishment of the future kingdom. Obviously there are Saints living in the supernatural state and maybe these would be included in this idea of interaction on earth.

Well, I would say that the saints pray for us, worship God with us, etc., and that is the type of interaction that we have with them. It is an invisible interaction, as they don't generally appear to people. But in God all in the body of Christ are united together as "cells" in one body, so we are united with those saints in the afterlife in that way.

I hope I'm not being confusing here, especially since I gave different answers as compared to previous posters.

Offline SolEX01

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Re: Mysticism- Is there an application today
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2008, 02:43:48 AM »
My purpose was not to confuse the OP who left a "religion" with a lot of mystical qualities on his path to Orthodoxy.

Offline ozgeorge

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Re: Mysticism- Is there an application today
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2008, 06:16:29 AM »
Wikepedia defines mysticism:

Quote
Mysticism (from the Greek μυστικός, mystikos, an initiate of a mystery religion[1]) is the pursuit of communion with, identity with, or conscious awareness of an ultimate reality, divinity, spiritual truth, or God through direct experience, intuition, or insight. Mysticism usually centers around a practice or practices intended to nurture that experience or awareness.

New Illumined,
"Mysterion" ("Mystery") is the Greek word for the Sacraments. They are the rites which are reserved for the initiates (those who are initiated) into the Orthodox Church. The first of these are Baptism and Chrisimation. These two Mysteries make us full members of the Orthodox Church, and as such, we are admitted into the Most Sacred Mystery of the Lord's Supper (which in Greek is called the "Mystikos Deipnos" i.e. "the Mystical Supper"). In this Mystery, we commune directly with Christ Himself and are united to Him and with all others who are united to Him, all our sisters and brothers in the Church, both past and present, living and dead. This is in accordance with Christ's own words: "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him." (John 6:56). This is one level of "Mysticism" (and the most important) and is actually the original meaning of "Mystikos".
Another level, which Asteriktos describes, is the Life in Christ, that is, our Life as Orthodox Christians. We pray, we fast, we repent, we study, we practice our faith, we give alms, we don't judge others, we forgive, etc... and in doing so, we keep the Commandments of Christ, and according to Christ's own Promise: “If you love Me, keep] My commandments. And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. "(John 14:15-17) The Holy Spirit dwells in us when we obey Christ's Commandments, He is the Life-Giver who quickens us. Through God's Presence in us and the action of His Divine Energies (Grace), we pass through the stages of Purification, Illumination and Theosis (Deification). This is the Mystical journey which all Orthodox Christians need to undertake, it is not reserved for "Mystics" alone. All of us need to attain Theosis in this life.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2008, 06:20:49 AM by ozgeorge »
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Mysticism- Is there an application today
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2008, 07:02:41 AM »
Is this something that is defined in the Orthodox church? How is mysticism practiced, if at all? Would one define interaction with Angels as a part of mysticism? Do Angels interact with Christians today?
If I understand this correctly Mysticism in Christianity is defined as Theosis.

Mysticism--like capitalism, rationalism and conservatism--has so many definitions that its use ought to be proscribed.
The safest bet is to pray and keep the commandments.  This way we do not have to worry about mystical experiences, which, if they are genuine, are supra-rational and, if they are not, are irrelevant.
DanM

Keep the commandments, practice the Beatitudes.  Do not seek signs, or fixate on visions.

I agree with ozgeorge and asteriktos: mysticism is seeing creation as the Creature sees it.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2008, 07:10:24 AM by ialmisry »
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Offline new illumined

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Re: Mysticism- Is there an application today
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2008, 12:31:06 PM »
Thank you for these answers. They were all good and I was thinking along the same lines.

Being a former JW, we were told the Holy Spirit is not involved in our lives. We were also told we did not have gaurdian Angels and that our mediator was not Christ but a select group of people here on Earth. Yeah, I know this got me all messed up. However, I am used to being guided by a tangible thing. A magazine with new information in it or a new book or something. Now I realize that is all false and based on your answers I have tried to follow a new course by praying and fasting and trying to live according to the practice of the Church and Christ. And I believe God has guided me in some way to the Orthodox church. I guess to say I am moved in spirit and am happy with the teachings of the Church and feel it is right.

Therefore, the first question was leading up to this one.

How does God guide us in our lives? How do I know what my path is.?

I could say that logically I find the Orthodox teachings more sound than anything I have heard. I could say that I feel moved in spirit and am happy about Orthodoxy. However, doesn't this happen often with people in different situations.

I presumed that some sort of divine mysticism would be there to guide people.

It seems in Biblical times there were angels that were sent, and there was voices that guided, and supernatural occurances, visions, dreams, etc. I am not really asking for large scale stuff here. But how, if any, in a small way do we know that God has touched us and guided us or is guiding us without our emotions and logic, and coincidences, getting in the way.

I have eyes and ears and a heart. I'm thinking, how can I be attune to God's messages directed to me. If He does direct in a personal way. How do I use my senses to know with assurance that He can, or will, or has, guided me along the way.

I am not asking for a miracle. I just seem to be flying by my gut instincts right now.

God bless

NI

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Mysticism- Is there an application today
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2008, 12:50:59 PM »
I agree with ozgeorge and asteriktos: mysticism is seeing creation as the Creature Creator sees it.
oops!
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Mysticism- Is there an application today
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2008, 12:59:57 PM »
Thank you for these answers. They were all good and I was thinking along the same lines.

Being a former JW, we were told the Holy Spirit is not involved in our lives. We were also told we did not have gaurdian Angels and that our mediator was not Christ but a select group of people here on Earth. Yeah, I know this got me all messed up. However, I am used to being guided by a tangible thing. A magazine with new information in it or a new book or something. Now I realize that is all false and based on your answers I have tried to follow a new course by praying and fasting and trying to live according to the practice of the Church and Christ. And I believe God has guided me in some way to the Orthodox church. I guess to say I am moved in spirit and am happy with the teachings of the Church and feel it is right.

Therefore, the first question was leading up to this one.

How does God guide us in our lives? How do I know what my path is.?

I could say that logically I find the Orthodox teachings more sound than anything I have heard. I could say that I feel moved in spirit and am happy about Orthodoxy. However, doesn't this happen often with people in different situations.

I presumed that some sort of divine mysticism would be there to guide people.

It seems in Biblical times there were angels that were sent, and there was voices that guided, and supernatural occurances, visions, dreams, etc. I am not really asking for large scale stuff here. But how, if any, in a small way do we know that God has touched us and guided us or is guiding us without our emotions and logic, and coincidences, getting in the way.

I have eyes and ears and a heart. I'm thinking, how can I be attune to God's messages directed to me. If He does direct in a personal way. How do I use my senses to know with assurance that He can, or will, or has, guided me along the way.

I am not asking for a miracle. I just seem to be flying by my gut instincts right now.

God bless

NI
I Kings 19
11 So He said, “Go forth and stand on the mountain before the LORD.” And behold, the LORD was passing by! And a great and strong wind was rending the mountains and breaking in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD was not in the wind. And after the wind an earthquake, but the LORD was not in the earthquake. 12 After the earthquake a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire; and after the fire a sound of a gentle blowing. 13 When Elijah heard it, he wrapped his face in his mantle and went out and stood in the entrance of the cave. And behold, a voice came to him and said, “What are you doing here, Elijah?”

Also if you can, I'd get an Orthodox Study Bible, to get the NWT out of your system.
http://orthodoxstudybible.com/
http://www.orthodox.net/osb/05sunopa.html
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ozgeorge

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Re: Mysticism- Is there an application today
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2008, 02:51:49 PM »
How does God guide us in our lives? How do I know what my path is.?
This is actually the second stage of the Spiritual Journey. The first stage is Purification.
In Orthodox Spirituality, the "nous" ("heart"/"mind") is the "eye of the soul" through which we perceive God. It is not the same as our Cognition, which is why it is more correctly translated as "heart". In order to perceive God, we need to Purify our heart (nous), the same way that a telescope lens has to be clean in order to see the stars. Only when the nous is purified can the Uncreated Light shine through- and this is the stage of Illumination. Now, you mustn't think that we move from one stage to the next like clockwork, rather, the stages merge in to one another. But the more the nous is Purified, the brighter the Illumination.
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Offline new illumined

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Re: Mysticism- Is there an application today
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2008, 02:56:02 PM »
Posted by ialmisry,
Quote
I Kings 19
11 So He said, “Go forth and stand on the mountain before the LORD.” And behold, the LORD was passing by! And a great and strong wind was rending the mountains and breaking in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD was not in the wind. And after the wind an earthquake, but the LORD was not in the earthquake. 12 After the earthquake a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire; and after the fire a sound of a gentle blowing. 13 When Elijah heard it, he wrapped his face in his mantle and went out and stood in the entrance of the cave. And behold, a voice came to him and said, “What are you doing here, Elijah?”

I have the Orthodox study Bible and use is regularly. I read the passages before and after this as well as the comment the OSB makes at the bottom.

Ok thank you for that. That gives me something to work with. But it still seems a little ambigous.

Maybe I can give you an example that I thought was interesting.

There is a name for it but I forgot. Someone that knows Orthodoxy would know. I think if I remember correctly there is a special Divine Liturgy held once a year in the East somewhere, where the Bishop does something with a candle and the flame goes flying around the parish. Somehow indicating that the Holy Spirit approves of everything. Sorry for the crude explanation.

I am not asking for a wild display of the Holy Spirit or a voice out of Heaven but there must be a very real (supernatural, mystical) small way that God touches us and tells us he approves.

Maybe instead of using the term Mysticism I will use the term energies. I remember the story of some saint (sorry can't remember the name) told about how a sword can be heated up in fire until it is red hot. The fire represents Gods energy. The sword represents the human nature. The sword gets glowing hot by the energy of the fire and it can burn a piece of wood. Did the fire or the sword burn the piece of wood? The illustration was made in how God's energy changes our human nature but we do not actually become God in essence.

How do I know that I have been touched or guided with the energies of God? One could argue that what I am so far experiencing is a form of self help and I am being self guided.

NI

Offline new illumined

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Re: Mysticism- Is there an application today
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2008, 03:39:57 PM »
ozgeorge posted,

Quote
This is actually the second stage of the Spiritual Journey. The first stage is Purification.
In Orthodox Spirituality, the "nous" ("heart"/"mind") is the "eye of the soul" through which we perceive God. It is not the same as our Cognition, which is why it is more correctly translated as "heart". In order to perceive God, we need to Purify our heart (nous), the same way that a telescope lens has to be clean in order to see the stars. Only when the nous is purified can the Uncreated Light shine through- and this is the stage of Illumination. Now, you mustn't think that we move from one stage to the next like clockwork, rather, the stages merge in to one another. But the more the nous is Purified, the brighter the Illumination.

Thank you ozgeorge,

I was just re reading through some of the earlier posts and noticed you mentioned this before.

Therefore I would at my point be dealing with Purification then to Illumination then to Theosis. Yet they all seem to merge together.

 How is the nous different than our cognition? That way I can get started. I want to experience these energies and achieve Theosis. I want to be attuned to the Divine. But I want to know(logically)  that this is not just a cognitive emotional response to external stimuli.

Definition of cognition:

1. The mental process of knowing, including aspects such as awareness, perception, reasoning, and judgment.
2. That which comes to be known, as through perception, reasoning, or intuition; knowledge.


Definition of emotion

1. any strong feeling, such as joy or fear
2. the part of a person's character based on feelings rather than thought: the conflict between emotion and logic [Latin emovere to disturb]

So far I think the two above definitions is all I have to go on. That is why I posted this question.

I will look for more information on this nous thing.

NI

Offline ozgeorge

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Re: Mysticism- Is there an application today
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2008, 06:51:33 PM »
How is the nous different than our cognition? That way I can get started. I want to experience these energies and achieve Theosis. I want to be attuned to the Divine. But I want to know(logically)  that this is not just a cognitive emotional response to external stimuli.

"Cognition" refers to "reason" (GK: "dianoia"- literally "two nous") which functions by formulating abstract concepts, on the basis of which argument is made towards a conclusion reached through deductive reasoning. The nous is "simple cognition", that is, knowing through direct apprehension or spiritual perception. It's only through the nous that we can experience God and the "logoi" (inner essences or principles) of created things. The nous is therefore the highest faculty in man. Because the nous operates through direct apprehension, it has to be free of concepts; in other words, the nous does not say "God is like......" because, through the nous, we experience God directly through His Uncreated Divine Energies (nothing created can experience God's Divine Essence). God is immediate in His Energies and transcendent in His Essence. To describe this using reason, an approximation is the Sun. We experience the Sun's radiant energy which operates in our world to create all our weather patterns, from hurricanes and dust storms to the gentle rain and rainbows, it gives us light, warmth, makes everything grow. When we lie on the beach, we say we are lying "in the sun", and we are in the sun. However, if we were to stand a mere million miles from the Sun itself, we would be burnt to oblivion. If the sunshine is the Divine Energy, then the Divine Essence is the Sun itself. Both are "the sun", but we can only experience one and not the other. In the same way, both the Divine Energies and the Divine Essence are God Himself (both are Uncreated), yet we can only experience God through His Divine Energies. It is these Uncreated Energies we experience through the nous. We are actually surrounded by the Divine Energies, they permeate everything and are present everywhere, but it's only when the nous is purified that we are able to apprehend God in His Divine Energies which surround and permeate us.
How do we purify the nous? The Way has been laid out for us by Him who is "The Way". Our Lord Jesus Christ is the Eternal Logos. This Greek word Logos is often translated in English as "Word", but it means much more than that. As I said earlier, when we purify the nous, we not only apprehend God directly, we also apprehend the multiple "logoi" ("inner principles") unique to each created thing. Christ, the Logos, contains within Himself all these multiple logoi of created things, and is Himself the Uncreated Logos- the Divine Wisdom/Intellect of God, Who is God. The opening words of St. John's Gospel make this clear: "In the beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with God, and the Logos was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend." (John 1:1-5) As we said, the Logos contains within Himself all the logoi (inner principles) of created things. As the Apostle says: "For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen. (Romans 11:36), and again: "yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live." (1 Corinthians 8:6), and again: "that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him." (Ephesians 1:10). Therefore, once the nous is sufficiently purified, the first (or "lower") stage of mystical contemplation (Gk: "Theoria"- literally "vision of God") is the contemplation of these logoi of created things which are contained within the Logos Himself. The higher stage of contemplation is the theoria of God Himself in the Logos.
Now, on the subject of "emotion", if you ever come to attend an Orthodox Liturgy, you will notice that the music of our Church is chanting according to a strict set of tones which are deliberately devoid of emotion. And if you look around you at the Icons, you will notice that Christ's Face (and those of His Mother and the Saints) are also free of emotional expression. Christ's face has the same, serene, passionless expression whether He is being Crucified, Transfigured on the Mountain, Resurrected or performing a Miracle. In Orthodoxy, we avoid all movements of the emotions in prayer. We pray from the heart as the centre of our being, not the seat of our emotions. The emotions are all stirred by the passions, and the aim of the Spiritual Life is to bridle the passions rather than let them control us.
Now, having said all this (and by no means exhausting the subject), there is another thing which you need to be aware of in the Spiritual life, and that is "Plani". The word "Plani" means "to wander"; and it is where we get the word "planet" from (because the "planets" were seen as "wanderers" among the stars of the night sky.) In terms of Orthodox Spirituality, which is the following of Him who is "The Way", plani means to "wander or stray from The Way". Plani occurs when we think we are following the Way, but in fact, we have strayed off and are following a different way. This is "Spiritual Delusion"- we delude ourselves into thinking we're on the right track, but in fact we are so far off it as to be in sin (Gk: "Armartia"- literally "to miss the mark"). Plani is a demonic tactic to get us off track, and is a very powerful tactic because it seems good when in fact it is destructive to us. (by the way, in the Slavic speaking Churches, plani is called "prelest"). How does one guard against plani (or "prelest")? There are two ways. Firstly, we need the Community of the Church. A horse on it's own may delude itself into thinking it's galloping, but if you put it with other horses, it realises that it's only trotting. The other way to guard against plani/prelest is to find someone who is experienced in following the Way, has practised the Orthodox Christian spiritual life themselves for a long time, and has advanced through purification to illumination and theosis. Such a person is called our Spiritual Father or Spiritual Mother and is usually an elder Monastic or Priest to whom we can confess our thoughts, our failings and who will advise us on how to practise our prayer and ascesis (spiritual excercises). This always begins with a kanon or "prayer rule" which we pray each day, and can include such things as spiritual reading, prostrations etc. As we advance and grow, our Spiritual Father adjusts our prayer rule accordingly.
I hope this has given you a starting point in coming to understand ("logically" as you put it ;)) some aspects of the difference between "nous" and "reason". The main difference is that "nous" does not experience in abstract through concepts (as "reason" does), but it is a direct apprehension of God. Nor do we experience God through the stirring of our emotions. When God breaks through and we experience Him directly or come to understand the logoi of created things, the experience is beyond words, beyond reason and beyond emotion.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2008, 07:00:52 PM by ozgeorge »
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Offline new illumined

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Re: Mysticism- Is there an application today
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2008, 08:00:23 PM »
Thank you for that reply ozgeorge,

I need to read this a couple of times to get the understanding here.

you posted,

Quote
When God breaks through and we experience Him directly or come to understand the logoi of created things, the experience is beyond words, beyond reason and beyond emotion.

This is what I'm talking about, "When God breaks through".

I remember reading about the accounts in the Bible when Jesus would perform miracles. Many of these was to help give faith to the eyewitness at the time.
And help them with their beliefs. Many came to believe and others did not. Also there is the story of Saul who persecuted the church before the Lord spoke to him. He was doing bad. The way I understand it his nous was not purified before this. ??? But God helped change his nous. ???

I was told we have a relationship with God. And this can vary between good and bad. But how does God break through for us Christians today. I was assuming that at times there would be some small divine intervention that we could experience. I assumed it would be more mystical. Like through signs or angelic presence or small slight of the hand miracle or something. Or as posted by ialmisry, "a sound of a gentle blowing". I think I understand what you wrote and it sounds more like achieving a higher state of perfection or becoming more Godlike by means of working in Him and through Him by way of the nous. Tuning into our nous to be more in communion with God and achieving a higher spiritual state. Please correct me if I am wrong on that.

I also, by that post, understand that we have, by way of the nous, another connection with God. Then prayer is the vehicle to understanding the nous and having God answer our prayers? ??? Therefore God could interact for us in our world through the nous and also through divine intervention in our physical realm. Both ways I guess.

Truly fascinating stuff. I never heard that before.
What you posted is well considered.

I live a long way from a Parish. I need someone in my area to talk about this.


NI

Offline ozgeorge

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Re: Mysticism- Is there an application today
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2008, 08:08:54 PM »
Truly fascinating stuff. I never heard that before.
You actually have heard it before. Perhaps you just weren't listening ? ;)
Everything I have said said was summarized by Our Lord Jesus Christ in one sentence consisting of ten Greek words in the Gospel:

 
"Mακαριοι οι καθαροι τη καρδια οτι αυτοι τον θεον οψονται"
(ΜΑΤΘΑΙΟΝ 5:8 )

"Blessed are the pure of heart, for they shall see God."
(MATTHEW 5:8 )


If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.

Offline new illumined

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Re: Mysticism- Is there an application today
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2008, 09:09:25 PM »
Thank you ozgeorge, :)

You have given me some things to think about.




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Offline Asteriktos

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Re: Mysticism- Is there an application today
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2008, 09:20:29 PM »
Quote
"Cognition" refers to "reason" (GK: "dianoia"- literally "two nous") which functions by formulating abstract concepts, on the basis of which argument is made towards a conclusion reached through deductive reasoning... . .

I nominate this one for post of the month. Thank you for taking the time to type that out, ozgeorge!

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Mysticism- Is there an application today
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2008, 03:03:08 AM »
Quote
"Cognition" refers to "reason" (GK: "dianoia"- literally "two nous") which functions by formulating abstract concepts, on the basis of which argument is made towards a conclusion reached through deductive reasoning... . .

I nominate this one for post of the month. Thank you for taking the time to type that out, ozgeorge!
Nomination reported and logged :)  Thank you.
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Offline Myrrh23

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Re: Mysticism- Is there an application today
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2008, 08:34:32 PM »
Perhaps Faith Itself is mysticism, since we're often following something we've all never seen before, but still believe is there protecting us.  :)
*I am no longer posting on OC.net*

We all have a Black Dog and a White Dog inside of us. The One you feed the most eventually eats the Other.

All are tempted, but it is the courageous person who clings to God during the storm. For the Ego is a prison, but Christ is the Liberator

Offline Myrrh23

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Re: Mysticism- Is there an application today
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2008, 08:37:30 PM »
How does God guide us in our lives? How do I know what my path is.?
This is actually the second stage of the Spiritual Journey. The first stage is Purification.
In Orthodox Spirituality, the "nous" ("heart"/"mind") is the "eye of the soul" through which we perceive God. It is not the same as our Cognition, which is why it is more correctly translated as "heart". In order to perceive God, we need to Purify our heart (nous), the same way that a telescope lens has to be clean in order to see the stars. Only when the nous is purified can the Uncreated Light shine through- and this is the stage of Illumination. Now, you mustn't think that we move from one stage to the next like clockwork, rather, the stages merge in to one another. But the more the nous is Purified, the brighter the Illumination.


Wow. THAT'S going in my journal.... ;)
« Last Edit: November 16, 2008, 08:37:46 PM by Myrrh23 »
*I am no longer posting on OC.net*

We all have a Black Dog and a White Dog inside of us. The One you feed the most eventually eats the Other.

All are tempted, but it is the courageous person who clings to God during the storm. For the Ego is a prison, but Christ is the Liberator

Offline new illumined

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Re: Mysticism- Is there an application today
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2008, 09:27:01 PM »
I must say ozgeorge has written some profound stuff.


Offline ozgeorge

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Re: Mysticism- Is there an application today
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2008, 09:35:07 PM »
I must say ozgeorge has written some profound stuff.

No he hasn't!
These are all teachings gleaned from the Philokalia (http://orthodoxwiki.org/Philokalia), studied under the guidance of my Spiritual Father.
If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.

Offline new illumined

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Re: Mysticism- Is there an application today
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2008, 09:43:55 PM »
Thank you for being humble ozgeorge. I did not know those things were from the philokalia

My apologies, if I put you in an uncomfortable position.



NI