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Author Topic: Family/Faith issues  (Read 2193 times) Average Rating: 0
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Andrea
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« on: November 17, 2008, 01:45:07 PM »

I have a question for those that used to be Roman Catholic. I'm wondering if during and after converting to Orthodoxy, you had hard feelings toward the RC church, and if so, how did you get past them?

I have been interested in and reading about Orthodoxy for about 4 years.  However, I joined the Roman Catholic church with my husband and children when he decided to become RC. We went to the local Novus Ordo parish for a while, then got caught up in the whole Traditional Catholic movement.  My husband loves the Old Mass and the whole Pre-Vatican II Catholic culture.  Since there is no traditional Mass nearby we've been going to an Eastern Rite Catholic church. I absolutely love the liturgy and feel so much more at home with it and also find myself more in agreement with Eastern Orthodox perspectives.  But I also find that more and more I want nothing to do with Latin Rite Catholicism.  I have been feeling very strongly against it. My dh thinks that the answer is to live nearby a parish offering the full pre 1962 parish life...however I don't even really care for the TLM for a variety of reasons, though I hope I don't offend those that do like it.

My problem is that I don't want anything to do with Latin Catholicism at all, which is hard when my husband feels as he does. My son is still an altar boy at our local Latin Church so we have to take him once a month. That day is next Sunday and I dread it already. There is a small Latin Mass group there that's very into the "fight for the Mass" and I'm quite tired of hearing about it, or how Father is going to wear Gothic vestments or how the choir is going to sing a traditional hymn.  I'm so turned off by all of it and want to just immerse myself in the Eastern Rite parish (which is as far as I can go right now with my husband. He does occasionally ask about Orthodoxy so I don't want to push should he slowly grow that way.)  I don't want my feelings to cause a problem in my marriage.

Sorry for unloading, as this is becoming quite bothersome, because I don't want to be negative. I want to see some positives. I'm not angry or anything, but I just feel such a revulsion right now. That might be too strong a word, but I couldn't think of anything else right now.

Geez, sorry for rambling. Any advice would be appreciated on how to change my feelings. I do pray a lot about it.  Cheesy

Edited to add that I mean no offense at all toward Roman Catholics.  I have no idea why I feel the way I do and really want to "get over it".
« Last Edit: November 17, 2008, 01:49:41 PM by Andrea » Logged
Thomas
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« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2008, 01:56:32 PM »

Many of us, who are converts, have passed through other  churches (protestant, Roman Catholic, cult, and new age) on our way to Orthodoxy.  I have come from several in my search but once I found Orthodoxy it has  stuck.  I have been Orthodox for 20 years this past year and am happy that I made the trek. Some may take longer as they pursue the path, your husband may be one of those. Has he actually attended and Orthodox Service with you? What jurisdiction was it? Was it in English or in the mother tongue?  All of these may have impact on how he responds. It is obvious from your  note that you are already feeling your heartstrings pulling to the Holy Orthodox Church. You have my prayers.

Thomas
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Andrea
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« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2008, 02:07:10 PM »

Many of us, who are converts, have passed through other  churches (protestant, Roman Catholic, cult, and new age) on our way to Orthodoxy.  I have come from several in my search but once I found Orthodoxy it has  stuck.  I have been Orthodox for 20 years this past year and am happy that I made the trek. Some may take longer as they pursue the path, your husband may be one of those. Has he actually attended and Orthodox Service with you? What jurisdiction was it? Was it in English or in the mother tongue?  All of these may have impact on how he responds. It is obvious from your  note that you are already feeling your heartstrings pulling to the Holy Orthodox Church. You have my prayers.

Thomas

Thank you for the reply. Neither one of us has gone to an Orthodox service, though I want very badly to go and I think I might try to arrange it soon. There is an OCA church nearby. We do go to an Eastern Rite Catholic church frequently and it is in English.  He says he likes it a lot, but loves the TLM more. Once I went to the Eastern Rite church I did not want to go back. Sometimes he asks about Orthodoxy and it's funny but he won't say the creed as it's said in the West.  But he is still very much into the Traditional Catholic identity.

Thank you for your prayers.
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« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2008, 02:30:52 AM »

I'm afraid I don't have anything to add here, I'm just replying to bump this thread up for other people to respond to. Sorry! Smiley
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« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2008, 06:07:34 PM »

Well, I did have animosity towards the Novus Ordo Church when I was still in it. It's just that at the time I had no idea what Novus Ordo was, I assumed that was the way it had always been (I after Vatican II). To make an extremely long story short, I always questioned "Church Teachings" like the hippie music, lay people distributing communion, the priests facing us the whole time etc. Then I learned of things like the Inquisitions, all from liberal ed mind you. Then there was the people at that church: I have nothing good to say about them. My parents are very typical of their generation: iconoclast, modernists, pro-abortion etc. who always dragged us to church every week and paid lip service but their hearts were far from God. They certainly weren't Christians at home. If anything the whole experience made my an atheist because it seemed comparitively honest at the time. I learned more about the Mass and Church history in Music Hist. I at a secular college than in 12 years of NO indoctrination. Then those Chant CDs came out and I asked everyone. "This is Church music? How come I've never heard this?!" Then I heard about "The Spirit of Vatican II". I left the Church of Rome LONG ago.

In my early 30's I met an Orthodox priest who I was told went to Catholic seminary. Curiousity got to me. I had always "known" about the Orthodox Church, but assumed it was just an extention of the one I left. Then he told me about the Great Schism and what caused it, about his own Sanctuary, how they do "the Mass" and a week later I attended my first DL. It looked ancient and spooky but very familiar. I talked with some folks afterwards about what the Church thinks of this and that, and found out that they hadn't changed anything since the 800's, well English and pews nothwithstanding. Then i learned of the Orthodox Western Rite of Antioch and ROCOR. The atheist in me died as all the answers I looked for were answered, and these folks were so nice!  Went to catechisms, and I learned everything I should've been taught in the RCC.

Then I had even more animosity to the RCC because of that little scandal (and I have to be "nice" here) and because they didn't teach me this stuff. All I was taught was heresy and "DO AS YOU'RE TOLD!" and they punish tradition. Case in point the SPPX while guys like Roger Mahoney still reigns in LA. I saw my first TLM two years ago, and my foaming-at-the-mouth catholic sister pretty much told me I was going to hell when I decided to cross the Volga. She also doesn't "get it" that I didn't learn of or see the TLM until my 30's. I was told that it was normal for converts to feel that way when they join the Church. A deacon at the time (now a priest) told me "It's better to come into the Church walking forward singing, than walking backwards shouting."

I still hate NO and IMHO any Catholic and Orthodox should too. The result of it is: empty pews, empty seminaries, empty convents, empty faith. The priest who brought me into Orthodoxy still gets riled up when ever NO is brought up, so it may take me a while to get over it too. He also told me to be supportive of like-minded people therefore I, being a latin lover, am supportive of so-called Trad Catholics, even though the SPPX people love to call me a "heretic" and tell me I'm going to Hell.

But I also found out that being Orthodox is hard. I follow a moral code that allows very little, and I can't eat meat on Wednesdays and Fridays. But it's not supposed to be easy, even though since I can't lie and cheat I'm at a great disadvantage in the business world. This multi-jurisdictionalism is impossible for me to swallow as well. The RCC may be battling for it's soul but at least there you knew who was in charge...at the top anyway. I also found out that outside the services, there isn't all that much different. I still see politics, nepotism, biblical ignorance and people living in sin. I also found out that at least person of influence in the Antiochian Archdiocese, is not only suffering from Stockholm Syndrome, but is nothing more than a Dhimmi! The ethnic mentality just drives me nuts. But bottom line, I'm in the Church of the Apostles and doing my best to ignore all that other stuff. Then there's the dealing with my family, who look at me like I'M weird!

As for your last question I don't know what to tell you. You're supposed to belong to ONE parish, but people in my parish belong to two (even though they're not supposed to). You're going to have to go with one, and just visit the other. I think it's Roman canon law that you can't jump jurisdictions without approval of both bishops.

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Medieval, backwards, rigid, narrow-minded Traditionalist, Western Rite lover and proud of it! Make my day.
Andrea
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« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2008, 12:31:16 AM »

^Thank you for sharing this, I truly appreciate it.    Especially sharing what your priest said about walking forward singing.  Some of the things you mentioned are things that disturb me greatly as well.

I'm feeling a bit better about things since writing that and am narrowing down what's been bothering me. But I really appreciate knowing that a feeling of animosity is something others have felt as well.

Thanks again.
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« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2008, 01:07:54 AM »

What is the Western Rite Liturgy (Orthodox) compared to the Traditional Latin Mass (Catholic)? Or are they the same thing? I've heard old Catholic chants and they sound very similar to other Orthodox chants, since it's all monophony. I must admit I have never been to any Catholic Mass, since I was raised Protestant.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2008, 01:09:13 AM by antiderivative » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2008, 01:57:13 AM »

I am not certain if this is addressing anything that you have said specifically, but I wanted to say that no one should come to Holy Orthodoxy out of disdain for their past experiences.  I certainly understand being hurt by false teachings, and the righteous indignation that can come from negative experiences, but overall I would just encourage you to let the love of Christ guide your decisions.  Do not speak negatively about your husband's church to him, but perhaps try speaking more positively about Orthodoxy.

Anyway, basically I'm just trying to caution against self-righteousness.  Many people in movements like the Traditionalists Catholics just spend all of their time hating the rest of Catholicism rather than spiritually growing.  Some of these people see Orthodoxy as a haven for a time, but then these same people will find plenty of things to freak out about in the Orthodox Church as well if that's where their heart is.  Beards, pews, head-coverings, calendars, ecumenism, jurisdictionalism, nationalism, et cetera.  There are many things to be angry about if one wants to, and Orthodoxy is full of pompous religiosity as much as any other church.  The point of conversion is coming into the fullness of Christ's love, not simply preferences in terms of worship rubrics or ritual practices.

I say all of this because I struggle myself already with inflamed anger and resentment for my Protestant background, and I have only just taken my vows.  Running from my pride is what drove me into the Church, and already I am finding new things to be arrogant and condescending about.  Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me!
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Andrea
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« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2008, 12:55:19 PM »

^Thank you, I read and reread what you wrote and it's very true, good advice. I appreciate it.
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VirSpeluncaeOrthodoxae
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« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2008, 12:07:49 AM »

In my case, I don't consider myself a former Catholic but a former atheist. I left the former for the latter, and then for Orthodoxy. For me it all started to make sense after I started learned about the EOC. IMHO the main problem is misinformation. I usually walk away when in mixed company and the subject of religion comes up. It almost always "well I was raised Catholic" and I'd have to do my dance: explaining I'm Orthodox and what that means and why protestantism is wrong and they usually don't understand anyway. I just point.
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« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2008, 01:31:33 PM »

Hi Andrea,

I've been struggling with Orthodoxy... I am Roman Catholic and as bad off as the Roman Catholic Church has been over the last 40 years I continue to struggle with entering Orthodoxy. I love their piety, Liturgy and Spirituality but there are ties which continue to bind me up in the Roman Catholic Church. I hope you find peace on your journey.
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« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2008, 11:17:44 AM »

Hi Andrea,

Slava Isusu Christu!

I was born and raised Roman Catholic, found the Eastern Catholic Church in my late 30's and converted to Holy Orthodoxy in 2007.

Do I have any animosity? Only that I did not find Holy Orthodoxy sooner. I had never heard one word about Eastern Christianity in all my years as a Roman Catholic. Not one word--even about Eastern Catholicism!!!

Upon stumbling on the Byzantine Catholic Church, I knew that I could never be Latin Rite again after experiencing my first DL.  My wife felt the same. After years of study and prayer we came to the realization that the Holy Orthodox Church is indeed the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church. 
We had to become Orthodox.

We love and cherish our Latin roots and will always pray for the Latin/Eastern Catholic Church.  But we do not regret our decision to bask in the glory of the fullness of truth in the Holy Orthodox Church.  Smiley
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Andrea
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« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2008, 01:50:51 PM »

Hi Andrea,

I've been struggling with Orthodoxy... I am Roman Catholic and as bad off as the Roman Catholic Church has been over the last 40 years I continue to struggle with entering Orthodoxy. I love their piety, Liturgy and Spirituality but there are ties which continue to bind me up in the Roman Catholic Church. I hope you find peace on your journey.

Thank you. I hope you find peace on yours too.  Smiley
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Andrea
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« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2008, 01:55:30 PM »

Hi Andrea,

Slava Isusu Christu!

I was born and raised Roman Catholic, found the Eastern Catholic Church in my late 30's and converted to Holy Orthodoxy in 2007.

Do I have any animosity? Only that I did not find Holy Orthodoxy sooner. I had never heard one word about Eastern Christianity in all my years as a Roman Catholic. Not one word--even about Eastern Catholicism!!!
 

No, we didn't hear anything either, we found out through the internet what Eastern Catholicism is and that there was a church near us. We have found that a lot of the people we know don't know anything about it. We've even invited some friends of ours to go with us to Divine Liturgy several times, but they flat refuse.

Quote
Upon stumbling on the Byzantine Catholic Church, I knew that I could never be Latin Rite again after experiencing my first DL.  My wife felt the same. After years of study and prayer we came to the realization that the Holy Orthodox Church is indeed the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church. 
We had to become Orthodox.
That's how I felt too after my first DL.

Quote
We love and cherish our Latin roots and will always pray for the Latin/Eastern Catholic Church.  But we do not regret our decision to bask in the glory of the fullness of truth in the Holy Orthodox Church.  Smiley
That is the point I would like to get to.
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