Author Topic: Why Ecumenism doesn't work  (Read 1502 times)

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Offline Νεκτάριος

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Why Ecumenism doesn't work
« on: September 05, 2003, 07:42:00 PM »
I've been spending a lot of time thinking about exactly why I converted to Orthodoxy and what it is I have found within Orthodoxy that exists no where else.  In the end the spiritual life offered by Orthodoxy is why I am Orthodox today.  The blend of spiritual life I have been most exposed to is Athonite Monasticism, as I live only an hour's drive from Saint Anthony's Monastery.  It is there that I have seen what Orthodoxy truly is; it was there that I realized Orthodoxy is something so unique....


If tomorrow there was a union between Old and New Rome here is what I realistically envision would happen in the RCC:

1) No Filioque in the Creed

2) Greatly reduced Papal authority (basicly Vatican I and II would have to be axed or really revised)

3) Liturgical revisions (but probably not a very large scale)

4) Affect on daily parish life, little to none

And number 4 is what is problematic and why ecumenism will never work.  A superficial union will not drive Barlaam out of the Latin Church, i.e it won't create the Orthodox spirit.  While the united church would be Orthodox in doctrine it would be the church of Barlaam in praxis - and thus not Orthodox in the end.  To my knowledge Metropolitan Hierotheos of Nafpaktos never writes against Ecumenism directly, but IMO his writtings stand as a stalwart defense against it.  The cure of the soul is only offered within the context of living Orthodoxy and Barlaamist united Church wouldn't off this - thus it would be a sham.  


Any thoughts on this for discussion?

Offline afanasiy

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Re:Why Ecumenism doesn't work
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2003, 03:48:30 PM »
    IMHO the only way the Latins and Orthodox could get together would be for one side or th'other to make (per impossibile) a paradigm shift.  EIther one side adopted the axioms of th'other side that define terms used in common (Grace, Salvation, soul, death as a penalty or not, etc.); or invent a new paradigm, though it would seem the possibilities have been pretty well exhausted.
     See http://www.orlapubs.com/AR/R265.html

Afanasiy
« Last Edit: September 08, 2003, 10:58:16 PM by afanasiy »
afanasiy

Offline afanasiy

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Re:Why Ecumenism doesn't work
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2003, 03:50:05 PM »
As I cannot visit lists every day, best to email me:

OLP@orlapubs.com
afanasiy

Offline Linus7

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Re:Why Ecumenism doesn't work
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2003, 11:28:13 PM »
The reason universal ecumenism (term courtesy of the Department of Redundant Terms Department) cannot work is that all those who call themselves Christians cannot agree on the faith and never will.

Limited unity can be hammered out between groups that can agree on a kind of minimalistic creed - "Mere Christianity" - but we Orthodox cannot be a party to such reductionism.

I became Orthodox because I believe Orthodoxy is the truth and I wanted to save my soul. Anywhere else that is a very iffy proposition.

I pray for the salvation of all of mankind.

That means repentance all 'round.

But why should they repent if we tell them their bogus religions are okay?
« Last Edit: September 08, 2003, 12:00:54 AM by Linus7 »
The first condition of salvation is to keep the norm of the true faith and in no way to deviate from the established doctrine of the Fathers.
- Pope St. Hormisdas

Offline Elisha

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Re:Why Ecumenism doesn't work
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2003, 12:14:50 PM »
The reason universal ecumenism (term courtesy of the Department of Redundant Terms Department) cannot work is that all those who call themselves Christians cannot agree on the faith and never will.

Limited unity can be hammered out between groups that can agree on a kind of minimalistic creed - "Mere Christianity" - but we Orthodox cannot be a party to such reductionism.

I became Orthodox because I believe Orthodoxy is the truth and I wanted to save my soul. Anywhere else that is a very iffy proposition.

I pray for the salvation of all of mankind.

That means repentance all 'round.

But why should they repent if we tell them their bogus religions are okay?

Exactly.  Well said.