Author Topic: Chanting "Lord Have Mercy" very fast..  (Read 2511 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline sohma_hatori

  • Earthbending Novice
  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 527
  • The Blind Bandit
Chanting "Lord Have Mercy" very fast..
« on: November 01, 2008, 10:29:42 AM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2scpPh7yJGM&feature=related

while I agree that this chant is very solemn and beautifull.. Is it really necessary that we chant, Lord Have Mercy this fast? I understand why we repeat it so many times, but why this fast in some cases? Maybe its about saving time, but what about on the internalizing of the things we say in prayer, aren't they lost in this way?

Just curios..

In ICXC,
Wilbur
""Pride is not the opposite of shame, but it's source. True humility is the only antidote to shame.""
— Iroh- Avatar:The Last Airbender

Offline Rosehip

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,760
Re: Chanting "Lord Have Mercy" very fast..
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2008, 11:05:30 AM »
Except for the size of the cathedral, this could almost have been filmed/recorded in my church!!

I've often wondered why it must be sung so fast and so many times (40 times?). So often in general, the slavonic is sung so very quickly there's almost no way to catch all the words or to understand everything. The words often get swallowed up due to the acoustics.
+ Our dear sister Martha (Rosehip) passed away on Dec 20, 2010.  May her memory be eternal! +

Offline Basil 320

  • Site Supporter
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,147
Re: Chanting "Lord Have Mercy" very fast..
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2008, 12:25:54 PM »
Absolutely beautiful; inspiring.  Thanks for the link.
"...Strengthen the Orthodox Community..."

Offline Rosehip

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,760
Re: Chanting "Lord Have Mercy" very fast..
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2008, 12:44:09 PM »
I forgot to thank you for the link, sohma. Indeed, it was very beautiful!
+ Our dear sister Martha (Rosehip) passed away on Dec 20, 2010.  May her memory be eternal! +

Offline Justin Kissel

  • •|•|•
  • Protospatharios
  • ****************
  • Posts: 31,761
Re: Chanting "Lord Have Mercy" very fast..
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2008, 12:57:43 PM »
I asked about this on OC.net about 5-6 years ago, though I don't remember the response to my question :-X I agree with you that it seems strange to say the words so fast that they are almost a jumble (though I can't tell if that's the case in the video).
« Last Edit: November 01, 2008, 01:01:15 PM by Asteriktos »
"My doubt in Christ is not like that of a child; it was forged in a furnace of faith." - Dostoevsky

Offline LBK

  • No Reporting Allowed
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,247
  • Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!
  • Faith: Orthodox
Re: Chanting "Lord Have Mercy" very fast..
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2008, 04:01:53 PM »
The Greeks also have very fast chants of "Kyrie Eleison", which can be just as beautiful in their use of cadences. The singing on the video may have been fast, but the diction was still very clear, as it should be.
No longer posting here. Anyone is welcome to PM me or email me at the address in my profile.

Offline PeterTheAleut

  • The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 34,175
  • Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Chanting "Lord Have Mercy" very fast..
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2008, 04:07:00 PM »
I've sung this setting of the 100-fold (actually 70-fold in this musical arrangement) "Lord have mercy" (alternating between English and Slavonic) many times for the Vigil of the Exaltation of the Holy Cross (September 14).  My take on the experience is that it's really possible to lose sense of the greater liturgical pageantry and spirituality of the rite (i.e., the priest blessing the four directions of creation with the cross) by focusing too much on each individual "Lord have mercy."  Maybe it's better to think of all the little "Lord have mercy"s as one grand, long "Lord have mercy!"
« Last Edit: November 01, 2008, 04:08:47 PM by PeterTheAleut »
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline Rosehip

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,760
Re: Chanting "Lord Have Mercy" very fast..
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2008, 04:12:48 PM »
I've sung this setting of the 100-fold (actually 70-fold in this musical arrangement) "Lord have mercy" (alternating between English and Slavonic) many times for the Vigil of the Exaltation of the Holy Cross (September 14).  My take on the experience is that it's really possible to lose sense of the greater liturgical pageantry and spirituality of the rite (i.e., the priest blessing the four directions of creation with the cross) by focusing too much on each individual "Lord have mercy."  Maybe it's better to think of all the little "Lord have mercy"s as one grand, long "Lord have mercy!"

Wow. What a beautiful thought!
+ Our dear sister Martha (Rosehip) passed away on Dec 20, 2010.  May her memory be eternal! +

Offline Anastasios

  • Webdespota
  • Administrator
  • Merarches
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,496
  • Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Florina
    • AnastasiosHudson.com
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Greek Old Calendarist
Re: Chanting "Lord Have Mercy" very fast..
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2008, 04:15:41 PM »
I didn't think that was fast.
Please Buy My Book!

Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism and may not be accurate expositions of Orthodox teaching. Also, I served as an Orthodox priest from 2008-2013, before resigning.

Offline PeterTheAleut

  • The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 34,175
  • Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Chanting "Lord Have Mercy" very fast..
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2008, 04:20:18 PM »
I didn't think that was fast.
It's right about the tempo at which my choir director likes to take that arrangement.  It does take some rehearsal to get up to speed, but once well rehearsed, it really doesn't feel all that fast.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2008, 04:21:04 PM by PeterTheAleut »
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline ozgeorge

  • I'll take you for who you are if you take me for everything.
  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 16,382
  • My plans for retirement.
    • Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of Australia
Re: Chanting "Lord Have Mercy" very fast..
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2008, 05:43:51 PM »
Every prayer is summarized in the words of the prayer "Lord have mercy!" So when it is chanted like this, to me it sounds like the prayer is resounding around the whole world, as though the whole Cosmos is chanting the prayer at once, which, in fact, it is.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2008, 05:57:36 PM by ozgeorge »
If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.

Offline Justin Kissel

  • •|•|•
  • Protospatharios
  • ****************
  • Posts: 31,761
Re: Chanting "Lord Have Mercy" very fast..
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2008, 05:52:09 PM »
I found the thread that I mentioned earlier--and it was only 3 1/2 years ago  :)  I still wonder if the practice doesn't sometimes approach "vain repetitions," though I didn't think that about this video in particular.
"My doubt in Christ is not like that of a child; it was forged in a furnace of faith." - Dostoevsky

Offline sohma_hatori

  • Earthbending Novice
  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 527
  • The Blind Bandit
Re: Chanting "Lord Have Mercy" very fast..
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2008, 08:23:56 PM »
I forgot to thank you for the link, sohma. Indeed, it was very beautiful!

Your welcome Roseship!  ;D
""Pride is not the opposite of shame, but it's source. True humility is the only antidote to shame.""
— Iroh- Avatar:The Last Airbender

Offline sohma_hatori

  • Earthbending Novice
  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 527
  • The Blind Bandit
Re: Chanting "Lord Have Mercy" very fast..
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2008, 08:25:26 PM »
Every prayer is summarized in the words of the prayer "Lord have mercy!" So when it is chanted like this, to me it sounds like the prayer is resounding around the whole world, as though the whole Cosmos is chanting the prayer at once, which, in fact, it is.

beautiful thought.. thanks George! chanting it very fast many times, does make it sound like a part of your being..
""Pride is not the opposite of shame, but it's source. True humility is the only antidote to shame.""
— Iroh- Avatar:The Last Airbender

Offline sohma_hatori

  • Earthbending Novice
  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 527
  • The Blind Bandit
Re: Chanting "Lord Have Mercy" very fast..
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2008, 08:25:50 PM »
I found the thread that I mentioned earlier--and it was only 3 1/2 years ago  :)  I still wonder if the practice doesn't sometimes approach "vain repetitions," though I didn't think that about this video in particular.

Have read the posts in the link.. Thank you so much for them!
""Pride is not the opposite of shame, but it's source. True humility is the only antidote to shame.""
— Iroh- Avatar:The Last Airbender

Offline username!

  • Section Moderator
  • Protokentarchos
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,081
Re: Chanting "Lord Have Mercy" very fast..
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2008, 08:37:11 PM »

Offline sohma_hatori

  • Earthbending Novice
  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 527
  • The Blind Bandit
Re: Chanting "Lord Have Mercy" very fast..
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2008, 08:39:50 PM »
Nor did I

Your just used to it I guess.
""Pride is not the opposite of shame, but it's source. True humility is the only antidote to shame.""
— Iroh- Avatar:The Last Airbender

Offline PeterTheAleut

  • The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 34,175
  • Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Chanting "Lord Have Mercy" very fast..
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2008, 12:18:14 AM »
I didn't think that was fast.
It's right about the tempo at which my choir director likes to take that arrangement.  It does take some rehearsal to get up to speed, but once well rehearsed, it really doesn't feel all that fast.
The main issue for me (adding to a thought several hours later) is finding places to breathe.  Bad breath control can lead to a panting singer after each repetition of the hymn. :P
Not all who wander are lost.