Author Topic: Was Mary sinless?  (Read 8321 times)

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Offline Carico

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Was Mary sinless?
« on: October 24, 2008, 08:15:34 PM »
Do Catholics believe that Mary was born sinless? If so, then since God is the only one who is sinless, then the Catholics must think that Mary is God. If so, then since Mary isn't included in the trinity, then the Catholics worship 2 Gods which breaks the first two commandments.  Otherwise, how do you explain your claims? ???
« Last Edit: October 24, 2008, 08:16:43 PM by Carico »

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Was Mary sinless?
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2008, 08:19:38 PM »
Do Catholics believe that Mary was born sinless? If so, then since God is the only one who is sinless, then the Catholics must think that Mary is God. If so, then since Mary isn't included in the trinity, then the Catholics worship 2 Gods which breaks the first two commandments.  Otherwise, how do you explain your claims? ???
Whom do you think we are?
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Offline Carico

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Re: Was Mary sinless?
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2008, 08:22:47 PM »
Do Catholics believe that Mary was born sinless? If so, then since God is the only one who is sinless, then the Catholics must think that Mary is God. If so, then since Mary isn't included in the trinity, then the Catholics worship 2 Gods which breaks the first two commandments.  Otherwise, how do you explain your claims? ???
Whom do you think we are?

Off-topic. Please respond to the OP.  :)

Offline ytterbiumanalyst

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Re: Was Mary sinless?
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2008, 08:27:07 PM »
Do Catholics believe that Mary was born sinless? If so, then since God is the only one who is sinless, then the Catholics must think that Mary is God. If so, then since Mary isn't included in the trinity, then the Catholics worship 2 Gods which breaks the first two commandments.  Otherwise, how do you explain your claims? ???
Whom do you think we are?

Off-topic. Please respond to the OP.  :)
Your question seems to have little to do with Orthodox or Protestants. Please respond to the moderator.

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Offline Carico

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Re: Was Mary sinless?
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2008, 08:28:19 PM »
Do Catholics believe that Mary was born sinless? If so, then since God is the only one who is sinless, then the Catholics must think that Mary is God. If so, then since Mary isn't included in the trinity, then the Catholics worship 2 Gods which breaks the first two commandments.  Otherwise, how do you explain your claims? ???
Whom do you think we are?

Off-topic. Please respond to the OP.  :)

Nice dodge. But it still doesn't justify your beliefs. Sorry.  ;)
Your question seems to have little to do with Orthodox or Protestants. Please respond to the moderator.

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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Was Mary sinless?
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2008, 08:29:17 PM »
Off-topic. Please respond to the OP.  :)
No.  If you mistake us for Roman Catholics, which you apparently do, then my question is very much on topic.  Whom do you think we are?
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Offline Carico

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Re: Was Mary sinless?
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2008, 08:30:19 PM »
Off-topic. Please respond to the OP.  :)
No.  If you mistake us for Roman Catholics, which you apparently do, then my question is very much on topic.  Whom do you think we are?

Your answers will tell me.  ;)

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Was Mary sinless?
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2008, 08:32:06 PM »
Do Catholics believe that Mary was born sinless? If so, then since God is the only one who is sinless, then the Catholics must think that Mary is God. If so, then since Mary isn't included in the trinity, then the Catholics worship 2 Gods which breaks the first two commandments.  Otherwise, how do you explain your claims? ???
Whom do you think we are?

Off-topic. Please respond to the OP.  :)
Your question seems to have little to do with Orthodox or Protestants. Please respond to the moderator.

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Nice dodge. But it still doesn't justify your beliefs. Sorry.  ;)
So the formal request of this board's moderator is dodging the question?
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Offline GabrieltheCelt

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Re: Was Mary sinless?
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2008, 08:32:24 PM »
Carico,

 I'd like to welcome you to the forum, but just to be clear: this is an Eastern Orthodox forum and NOT a Roman Catholic forum.  Your questions suggest that you have little understanding of the two.

In Christ,
Gabriel
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Was Mary sinless?
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2008, 08:35:28 PM »
Off-topic. Please respond to the OP.  :)
No.  If you mistake us for Roman Catholics, which you apparently do, then my question is very much on topic.  Whom do you think we are?

Your answers will tell me.  ;)
Look, you have two moderators requesting formally that you answer my question.  Either answer my question directly with a clear statement of what you think us to be, or stop posting on this thread.
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Offline prodromas

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Re: Was Mary sinless?
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2008, 08:35:50 PM »
Do Catholics believe that Mary was born sinless? If so, then since God is the only one who is sinless, then the Catholics must think that Mary is God. If so, then since Mary isn't included in the trinity, then the Catholics worship 2 Gods which breaks the first two commandments.  Otherwise, how do you explain your claims? ???

What happens if we told you we have a completely different understanding of sin then the legalistic action against God.
The sins I don't commit are largely due to the weakness of my limbs.

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Offline ytterbiumanalyst

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Re: Was Mary sinless?
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2008, 08:36:03 PM »
Off-topic. Please respond to the OP.  :)
No.  If you mistake us for Roman Catholics, which you apparently do, then my question is very much on topic.  Whom do you think we are?

Your answers will tell me.  ;)
Please see this rule re: a request made by a moderator. PetertheAleut requested that you provide him with relevant information; please comply with his request.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2008, 08:36:37 PM by ytterbiumanalyst »
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Offline Carico

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Re: Was Mary sinless?
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2008, 08:39:14 PM »
Off-topic. Please respond to the OP.  :)
No.  If you mistake us for Roman Catholics, which you apparently do, then my question is very much on topic.  Whom do you think we are?

Your answers will tell me.  ;)
Please see this rule re: a request made by a moderator. PetertheAleut requested that you provide him with relevant information; please comply with his request.

I can't answer the question until you tell me who you are. But if you want to leave that vague, then of course, neither I, nor anyone can know who you are. So will you answer my question honestly? if not, then I can't answer your question either. Sorry.  :)
 Publicly refusing to comply with an official request from a moderator.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2008, 08:40:30 PM by Carico »

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Was Mary sinless?
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2008, 08:45:05 PM »

Please see this rule re: a request made by a moderator. PetertheAleut requested that you provide him with relevant information; please comply with his request.

I can't answer the question until you tell me who you are. But if you want to leave that vague, then of course, neither I, nor anyone can know who you are. So will you answer my question honestly? if not, then neither can I answer your question. Sorry.  :)
You come to an Orthodox Christian discussion forum and mistake us for Roman Catholics?  Seriously now, if you're going to walk in here looking to pick a fight with us, the least you can do is a bit of research to see that we're not Roman Catholics and do not believe as they do.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2008, 08:45:30 PM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline Carico

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Re: Was Mary sinless?
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2008, 08:53:45 PM »

Please see this rule re: a request made by a moderator. PetertheAleut requested that you provide him with relevant information; please comply with his request.

I can't answer the question until you tell me who you are. But if you want to leave that vague, then of course, neither I, nor anyone can know who you are. So will you answer my question honestly? if not, then neither can I answer your question. Sorry.  :)
You come to an Orthodox Christian discussion forum and mistake us for Roman Catholics?  Seriously now, if you're going to walk in here looking to pick a fight with us, the least you can do is a bit of research to see that we're not Roman Catholics and do not believe as they do.

If you say you aren't Catholics, then I don't know who you are. If you won't tell me who you are then I can't know who you are. So why are you refusing to tell me who you are then blaming me for not knowing who you are?  :o  Is it some sort of secret? if so, why?  ???
« Last Edit: October 24, 2008, 08:54:10 PM by Carico »

Offline ozgeorge

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Re: Was Mary sinless?
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2008, 08:54:16 PM »
Do Catholics believe that Mary was born sinless?
Why don't you ask the Catholics?
If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.

Offline Papist

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Re: Was Mary sinless?
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2008, 08:57:54 PM »
This thread is weird... but yes Catholics believe that Mary was concieved without original sin.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline Carico

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Re: Was Mary sinless?
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2008, 08:59:18 PM »
Do Catholics believe that Mary was born sinless?
Why don't you ask the Catholics?

Because I don't play telephone. I'd rather hear it from you yourselves...unless you're ashamed of your beliefs. I thought you could give me an honest answer, but it appears I was wrong. So if this indirect relating is an example of your religion, then I can tell you right now, your religion is not about honesty.

Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: Was Mary sinless?
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2008, 09:00:55 PM »
This thread is weird...

It surely is. I think the tag is on the money.

We, Orthodox, have discussed this here before. If OP can't do a search and find the threads, his keyboard should be taken away.

At this point...this is pointless.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2008, 09:02:55 PM by Αριστοκλής »
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Was Mary sinless?
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2008, 09:01:53 PM »
If you say you aren't Catholics, then I don't know who you are.
DARN RIGHT YOU DON'T!!! ;D

Quote
If you won't tell me who you are then I can't know who you are. So why are you refusing to tell me who you are then blaming me for not knowing who you are?  :o  Is it some sort of secret? if so, why?  ???
It's no secret. :)  If you're too lazy to study your opponent before you debate him, then don't expect your opponent to give you the information even a minimal amount of research can uncover.
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Offline prodromas

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Re: Was Mary sinless?
« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2008, 09:03:46 PM »
Do Catholics believe that Mary was born sinless?
Why don't you ask the Catholics?

Because I don't play telephone. I'd rather hear it from you yourselves...unless you're ashamed of your beliefs. I thought you could give me an honest answer, but it appears I was wrong. So if this indirect relating is an example of your religion, then I can tell you right now, your religion is not about honesty.

Brother we can tell you the answer to the question but you could be discusted and leave. But the thing is to truly understand the question you have to understand why we believe it. I can tell you it won't work with your current theological schema and you won't ever want to know anything about us. Go and do some research on the Eastern Orthodox church and you can come back and ask some questions.
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Offline Carico

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Re: Was Mary sinless?
« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2008, 09:05:53 PM »
Do Catholics believe that Mary was born sinless?
Why don't you ask the Catholics?

Because I don't play telephone. I'd rather hear it from you yourselves...unless you're ashamed of your beliefs. I thought you could give me an honest answer, but it appears I was wrong. So if this indirect relating is an example of your religion, then I can tell you right now, your religion is not about honesty.

Brother we can tell you the answer to the question but you could be discusted and leave. But the thing is to truly understand the question you have to understand why we believe it. I can tell you it won't work with your current theological schema and you won't ever want to know anything about us. Go and do some research on the Eastern Orthodox church and you can come back and ask some questions.

Then all you have to do is tell me what you believe and why you believe it. I have no problem explaining my beliefs because I'm not ashamed of them. This thread is about your beliefs which you've been dodging since the first response. So are you going to answer the Op or keep on dodging it?

Offline Papist

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Re: Was Mary sinless?
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2008, 09:09:20 PM »
Are you trying to find out what Catholics believe or what Eastern Orthodox Christians believe?
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Was Mary sinless?
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2008, 09:11:37 PM »
Do Catholics believe that Mary was born sinless?
Why don't you ask the Catholics?

Because I don't play telephone. I'd rather hear it from you yourselves...unless you're ashamed of your beliefs. I thought you could give me an honest answer, but it appears I was wrong. So if this indirect relating is an example of your religion, then I can tell you right now, your religion is not about honesty.

Brother we can tell you the answer to the question but you could be discusted and leave. But the thing is to truly understand the question you have to understand why we believe it. I can tell you it won't work with your current theological schema and you won't ever want to know anything about us. Go and do some research on the Eastern Orthodox church and you can come back and ask some questions.

Then all you have to do is tell me what you believe and why you believe it. I have no problem explaining my beliefs because I'm not ashamed of them. This thread is about your beliefs which you've been dodging since the first response. So are you going to answer the Op or keep on dodging it?
Since you're acting on what you believe us to be, you can start by answering the question I submitted to you a few posts ago.  Whom do you think we are?  No one here is required to explain anything to you if you won't study us on your own time.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2008, 09:12:06 PM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline Carico

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Re: Was Mary sinless?
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2008, 09:11:52 PM »
Are you trying to find out what Catholics believe or what Eastern Orthodox Christians believe?

I'm trying to find out what you people on this forum believe. And so far, it's been harder than trying to pin down an evolutionist. After all, I was asked; "Whom do you think we are?" So who is we? And you guys blame me for not knowing you you are when you yourselves don't seem to be able to explain it!    ::)
« Last Edit: October 24, 2008, 09:13:19 PM by Carico »

Offline GiC

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Re: Was Mary sinless?
« Reply #25 on: October 24, 2008, 09:13:07 PM »
Because I don't play telephone. I'd rather hear it from you yourselves...unless you're ashamed of your beliefs. I thought you could give me an honest answer, but it appears I was wrong. So if this indirect relating is an example of your religion, then I can tell you right now, your religion is not about honesty.

If you wanted to inquire about the beliefs of the people on this board (presumably you're talking about the majority of the members of this board and don't want my opinion on the matter, in particular)...why didn't you ask them that question instead of posing a vague question about Latin Theology/Mariology?

I must question the motives of anyone who asks one question then demands another, unstated one, be answered in its stead.
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Was Mary sinless?
« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2008, 09:13:40 PM »
Are you trying to find out what Catholics believe or what Eastern Orthodox Christians believe?

I'm trying to find out what you people on this forum believe.
No you're not.  You're here to argue against what you mistakenly think we believe.  Now go and do your homework.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2008, 09:14:07 PM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline GiC

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Re: Was Mary sinless?
« Reply #27 on: October 24, 2008, 09:14:25 PM »
it's been harder than trying to pin down an evolutionist.

Oh, please, try me...but not on this thread...we have several others dedicated to the subject.
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Offline Carico

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Re: Was Mary sinless?
« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2008, 09:15:07 PM »
Because I don't play telephone. I'd rather hear it from you yourselves...unless you're ashamed of your beliefs. I thought you could give me an honest answer, but it appears I was wrong. So if this indirect relating is an example of your religion, then I can tell you right now, your religion is not about honesty.

If you wanted to inquire about the beliefs of the people on this board (presumably you're talking about the majority of the members of this board and don't want my opinion on the matter, in particular)...why didn't you ask them that question instead of posing a vague question about Latin Theology/Mariology?

I must question the motives of anyone who asks one question then demands another, unstated one, be answered in its stead.

Again, I was asked "Whom do you think we are?" So I can't answer the question until I first know who We is. So once again, who is WE? And if you won't tell me, then you are not interested in honest conversation but rather badgering, baiting and evasion. >:(

Offline Myrrh23

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Re: Was Mary sinless?
« Reply #29 on: October 24, 2008, 09:15:51 PM »
Carico, are you really Gov. Palin? Your answers are as confusing as hers....... ;)
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Re: Was Mary sinless?
« Reply #30 on: October 24, 2008, 09:16:28 PM »


Then all you have to do is tell me what you believe and why you believe it. I have no problem explaining my beliefs because I'm not ashamed of them. This thread is about your beliefs which you've been dodging since the first response. So are you going to answer the Op or keep on dodging it?

How is this thread about our beliefs when we are not Roman Catholics?  We have some differences of opinion with Roman Catholics on the matter.

Do you want to know what the Orthodox Church believes?

If you are seeking the Roman Catholic answer I suggest you go to a nice Roman Catholic board like Steve Ray's forums.catholic-convert.com
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Re: Was Mary sinless?
« Reply #31 on: October 24, 2008, 09:16:34 PM »
I'm Eastern Orthodox Christian.
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Offline ytterbiumanalyst

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Re: Was Mary sinless?
« Reply #32 on: October 24, 2008, 09:17:17 PM »
then you are not interested in honest conversation but rather badgering, baiting and evasion. >:(
If you're going to talk to yourself, you don't have to publish it on the Internet.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2008, 09:18:40 PM by ytterbiumanalyst »
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Offline GiC

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Re: Was Mary sinless?
« Reply #33 on: October 24, 2008, 09:17:24 PM »
Again, I was asked "Whom do you think we are?" So I can't answer the question until I first know who We is. So once again, who is WE? And if you won't tell me, then you are not interested in honest conversation but rather badgering, baiting and evasion. >:(

But you wern't asked who we were...you were asked 'whom do you think we are...how are we supposed to know who you think we are?
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Offline Carico

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Re: Was Mary sinless?
« Reply #34 on: October 24, 2008, 09:18:34 PM »


Then all you have to do is tell me what you believe and why you believe it. I have no problem explaining my beliefs because I'm not ashamed of them. This thread is about your beliefs which you've been dodging since the first response. So are you going to answer the Op or keep on dodging it?

How is this thread about our beliefs when we are not Roman Catholics?  We have some differences of opinion with Roman Catholics on the matter.

Do you want to know what the Orthodox Church believes?

If you are seeking the Roman Catholic answer I suggest you go to a nice Roman Catholic board like Steve Ray's forums.catholic-convert.com
I want to know who the WE in the first question posed to me represents. It's that simple.

Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: Was Mary sinless?
« Reply #35 on: October 24, 2008, 09:19:13 PM »
it's been harder than trying to pin down an evolutionist.

Oh, please, try me...but not on this thread...we have several others dedicated to the subject.

Oh goody...going to go make some popcorn...
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Offline Myrrh23

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Re: Was Mary sinless?
« Reply #36 on: October 24, 2008, 09:20:51 PM »
Because I don't play telephone. I'd rather hear it from you yourselves...unless you're ashamed of your beliefs. I thought you could give me an honest answer, but it appears I was wrong. So if this indirect relating is an example of your religion, then I can tell you right now, your religion is not about honesty.

If you wanted to inquire about the beliefs of the people on this board (presumably you're talking about the majority of the members of this board and don't want my opinion on the matter, in particular)...why didn't you ask them that question instead of posing a vague question about Latin Theology/Mariology?

I must question the motives of anyone who asks one question then demands another, unstated one, be answered in its stead.

Again, I was asked "Whom do you think we are?" So I can't answer the question until I first know who We is. So once again, who is WE? And if you won't tell me, then you are not interested in honest conversation but rather badgering, baiting and evasion. >:(

Carico, we refers to the body of seekers and believers that make up OrthodoxChristianity.net. You came to an Eastern Orthodox forum website---hence, the name Orthodoxchristianity.net. No one is evading anything, but some of us find it annoying and careless that you neither looked at the title on the Home Page---thus confusing us with Roman Catholics---and by also not looking up the question in the Search Bar, also located on the Home Page. :) It is right for some of us to say to you that you should do some research and observation first before you start posting and especially before you start arguing. :)
« Last Edit: October 24, 2008, 09:21:46 PM by Myrrh23 »
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Offline prodromas

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Re: Was Mary sinless?
« Reply #37 on: October 24, 2008, 09:21:07 PM »
I want to know who the WE in the first question posed to me represents. It's that simple.

It has been said many times in this thread:

EASTERN ORTHODOX CHRISTIAN :D
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Was Mary sinless?
« Reply #38 on: October 24, 2008, 09:21:20 PM »
This is an Orthodox Christian discussion forum, as can be seen in the name www.orthodoxchristianity.net.  Who else do you think 99% of the members of this Orthodox Christian forum are?  We're certainly not Buddhists.
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Offline Papist

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Re: Was Mary sinless?
« Reply #39 on: October 24, 2008, 09:23:08 PM »
Does the OP know what Orthodox Chritianity is?
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Offline ozgeorge

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Re: Was Mary sinless?
« Reply #40 on: October 24, 2008, 09:23:37 PM »
Because I don't play telephone.
That's nice. But what I mean is, why don't you ask your question on a Roman Catholic forum? Why come to an Orthodox Christian forum and ask them what the Catholics believe? Isn't that playing telephone?

I'd rather hear it from you yourselves...unless you're ashamed of your beliefs.
Oh, I'm not ashamed of my beliefs. In fact there is no room for either pride nor shame for us in our lives as Christians. To hold something back from shame is actually pride anyway.

I thought you could give me an honest answer, but it appears I was wrong.
I have no control over how you choose to perceive the world. But lets look at things objectively for a minute. You came here, thinking we were Catholics, we correct you, then you insult our Faith (without even knowing what we believe) like a raving derelict drunkard, and then you wonder why no one takes you seriously. Could it possibly be you that has the problem?

So if this indirect relating is an example of your religion, then I can tell you right now, your religion is not about honesty.
Orthodox Christianity is not a religion. It is the antithesis of it. Orthodoxy is the only cure for the neurosis that is "religion".
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Offline Carico

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Re: Was Mary sinless?
« Reply #41 on: October 24, 2008, 09:26:34 PM »
This is an Orthodox Christian discussion forum, as can be seen in the name www.orthodoxchristianity.net.  Who else do you think 99% of the members of this Orthodox Christian forum are?  We're certainly not Buddhists.

No, and neither are catholics Buddhists. So sorry, just because you're not Buddhists doesn't mean that your beliefs are crystal clear.  ::)  And considering that the responders in this thread have done everything BUT answer the OP, then your beliefs are anything but crystal clear. So you might try clarifying them instead of being vague about them then criticizing others for not knowing what they are.  ::) So, are you proud of your beliefs and want others to go to heaven for hearing them? Or are you ashamed of them because you believe they're contradictory? So which is it?  ???
« Last Edit: October 24, 2008, 09:26:48 PM by Carico »

Offline Myrrh23

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Re: Was Mary sinless?
« Reply #42 on: October 24, 2008, 09:27:19 PM »
This is an Orthodox Christian discussion forum, as can be seen in the name www.orthodoxchristianity.net.  Who else do you think 99% of the members of this Orthodox Christian forum are?  We're certainly not Buddhists.

That's what I said! :D
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We all have a Black Dog and a White Dog inside of us. The One you feed the most eventually eats the Other.

All are tempted, but it is the courageous person who clings to God during the storm. For the Ego is a prison, but Christ is the Liberator

Offline prodromas

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Re: Was Mary sinless?
« Reply #43 on: October 24, 2008, 09:30:30 PM »
Carico just stop. What you are doing is so rude its like jumping in to someones conversation and abusing them for no particular reason. You have been on this site for 1 hour and you have been put on moderation, do you think that this is a reason to re-think your behaviour? and no it's not because your protestant as we have many protestant posters who don't come here to abuse us but rather learn and us learn from them as brothers and sister in the body of Christ.
The sins I don't commit are largely due to the weakness of my limbs.

1915-1923 Հայոց Ցեղասպանութիւն ,never again,
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השואה  1933-1945, never again,
(1914-1923) Ελληνική Γενοκτονία, never again

Online Justin Kissel

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Re: Was Mary sinless?
« Reply #44 on: October 24, 2008, 09:31:11 PM »
Quote
Do Catholics believe that Mary was born sinless?

I'm not Catholic, but it's my understanding that they believe that the Virgin Mary was immaculately conceived, and thus born sinless.

Quote
If so, then since God is the only one who is sinless, then the Catholics must think that Mary is God. If so, then since Mary isn't included in the trinity, then the Catholics worship 2 Gods which breaks the first two commandments.

They don't think that Mary is God.

Quote
Otherwise, how do you explain your claims?

We don't accept what the Catholics believe on this point.
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Form a 'brute squad' then!