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Author Topic: The Protocols of the Elders of Zion  (Read 10395 times) Average Rating: 0
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rakovsky
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« Reply #90 on: December 15, 2010, 08:26:49 PM »

Note, also, that in its original incarnation (of which Dr. Simon Baruch was a member), the Klan was primarily an anti-black and anti-Federal organization.  The anti-Jewish element did not arise until its second incarnation in the early 20th century.  There were probably a number of prominent Southern Jews associated with the Klan 1860s and '70s

I am skeptical about it being ONLY anti-black. There was a huge anti-Catholic fervor at that time inthe 19th century, with a group called the know nothings. Mr. Baruch might have been in an area where that didn't matter, and I think that there were even some nonChristian Jews who had slaves. And in the book To Kill a Mockingbird, a southern child cannot understand Hitler's racism because it includes white people.

So in some places, protestantism might not have been a criteria for Klan membership. But I am sure that in most places it was, with significantly less tolerance for followers of Judaism.

I am not feeding trolls here, I hope on this one.
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« Reply #91 on: December 16, 2010, 04:20:11 AM »

Quote from: Ebenezer
"Despite the 'egalitarian' 'anti-racist' babble espoused by Stalin and his ilk, they still murdered Jews and were no less vicious or murderous than the Nazis, his nice sounding speeches do not match up to the reality of what actually happened to Russian Jews. Also, define "Jewish telegraph agency." Was ist das? Hmm?"

I'm sure 'Stalin' killed anyone who got in his way... That's Communism (Talmudism condensed) for you.

"Nice sounding speeches"? I guess if one thinks that the simple accusation of so-called 'anti-Semitism' (a ridiculous misnomer in its current popular usage) deserves the death penalty.

As for what happened to the Russian 'Jews'... It was the Russian Orthodox Christians who suffered the most - not the so-called 'Jews'! 60 million plus were starved and murdered. Those Christians suffered and died under a system which was conceived, funded and implemented by 'Jews'. Period.

The Jewish Telegraph Agency was... the Jewish Telegraph Agency. What more can I say?

Here's another one for you:

The Jewish Telegraph Agency of May 14, 1997, said that the Jews had, "...played key roles in ushering Communist rule into Hungary. In fact, during the brutal oppression of the early 1950s, the regime's top five leaders were Jews.

I cannot help if you are offended by the truth - because you are a 'Jew' yourself... That's your issue... Facts are facts.

Who should we believe - you (an admitted 'Jew') and your useful ilk here... or the admittals of the Encyclopaedia Judaica?

Here are a couple of quotes from them and a link to more (as well as more quotes from Winston Churchill and others on the subject)...

"The Communist Movement and ideology played an important part In Jewish life, particularly in the  1920s, 1930s and during and after World War II."

"Communist trends became widespread in virtually all Jewish communities. In some countries, Jews became the leading element in the legal and illegal Communist Parties.."

"Individual Jews played an important role in the early stages of Bolshevism and the Soviet Regime"


The Encyclopedia Judaica on page 793 then goes on to reveal that the Communist International actually instructed Jews to change their names so as "not to confirm right-wing propaganda that presented Communism as an alien, Jewish conspiracy."

'Jews and Communism - The Suppressed Link'

And the blacks? 'Who Brought The Slaves To America?

†IC XC†
†NI KA†


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« Reply #92 on: December 30, 2010, 04:09:21 AM »

I've no idea where the truth lies on the veracity of the Protocols, though it seems the weight of evidence is against them as being authentic. That said, I'm not sure being a fabrication makes them a hoax, per se…maybe, but not necessarily. I don't get the feeling they were written as a prank, there was definite purpose to them. And though common opinion (even among those who have never read them) hold the Protocol's content scandalous and deliberately defamatory in the extreme I am not sure that is a necessary conclusion as well.

For the record, I've never read them, and know them only by reputation. Yet one statement made in this thread made me curious. I quote "Nilus himself knew that the Protocols were fake but he wanted to make use of them in his anti-Jewish campaign.....  Nilus:  "Let us admit that the Protocols are spurious, but can't God use them to unmask the iniquity that is being prepared?"

Here we have a man reputed within Orthodoxy to be holy, a man blessed by others in Orthodoxy we know absolutely to be holy, and yet this man is prepared to publish something he apparently admits as being spurious in order to combat some other unnamed masked iniquity. That suggests that he saw instructive value in the Protocols even if they were not historical.  Might they not then be likened, at least in form, and perhaps in intent to an allegorical work…or a philosophical work/treatise put into the mouths of others who had some representative/symbolic function with respect to the whole work?  What I want to know is what is this masked iniquity Nilus felt to be such a present danger and what was it in the Protocols that he thought accurately unmasked and identified that danger even if in fictitious form?

Now it may well be the Protocols are an unmitigated evil as they are so often reputed to be, but that strikes me as too simplistic, too easily dismissive given the caliber and character of some men who gave this work credence on some level.  

Moving on though, with respect to the question the Jews and antisemitism and Holy Orthodoxy I've found this article by a Russian Jewish convert to Orthodoxy to be intriguing and informative.

HERE http://www.ocf.org/OrthodoxPage/reading/jewish_1.html
« Last Edit: December 30, 2010, 04:11:35 AM by Seraphim98 » Logged
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« Reply #93 on: December 30, 2010, 08:33:01 AM »

I've no idea where the truth lies on the veracity of the Protocols, though it seems the weight of evidence is against them as being authentic. That said, I'm not sure being a fabrication makes them a hoax, per se…maybe, but not necessarily. I don't get the feeling they were written as a prank, there was definite purpose to them. And though common opinion (even among those who have never read them) hold the Protocol's content scandalous and deliberately defamatory in the extreme I am not sure that is a necessary conclusion as well.

For the record, I've never read them, and know them only by reputation. Yet one statement made in this thread made me curious. I quote "Nilus himself knew that the Protocols were fake but he wanted to make use of them in his anti-Jewish campaign.....  Nilus:  "Let us admit that the Protocols are spurious, but can't God use them to unmask the iniquity that is being prepared?"

Here we have a man reputed within Orthodoxy to be holy, a man blessed by others in Orthodoxy we know absolutely to be holy, and yet this man is prepared to publish something he apparently admits as being spurious in order to combat some other unnamed masked iniquity. That suggests that he saw instructive value in the Protocols even if they were not historical.  Might they not then be likened, at least in form, and perhaps in intent to an allegorical work…or a philosophical work/treatise put into the mouths of others who had some representative/symbolic function with respect to the whole work?  What I want to know is what is this masked iniquity Nilus felt to be such a present danger and what was it in the Protocols that he thought accurately unmasked and identified that danger even if in fictitious form?

Now it may well be the Protocols are an unmitigated evil as they are so often reputed to be, but that strikes me as too simplistic, too easily dismissive given the caliber and character of some men who gave this work credence on some level.  

Moving on though, with respect to the question the Jews and antisemitism and Holy Orthodoxy I've found this article by a Russian Jewish convert to Orthodoxy to be intriguing and informative.

HERE http://www.ocf.org/OrthodoxPage/reading/jewish_1.html

It seems incredible any reasonable person would even consider these sop-called protocols anything but what they are. And great people have been anti-Semites for a thousand years, so it would not be so very surprising if Nilus turned out to be a man of his time in this respect. It was only in the last 40 years that the Latin church struck out the line "perfidious Jews" from it's Holy Friday liturgy--fully 20 years after the Shoah.

As to anti-Semitism in Russia and the Russian church, vs. Europe as a whole, I think one also has to consider how the anti-Semitism plays out. It seems, at least on anecdotal evidence, to be more likely to result in violence in Russia than in, say, the UK.
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« Reply #94 on: December 30, 2010, 09:08:36 AM »

Here we have a man reputed within Orthodoxy to be holy, a man blessed by others in Orthodoxy we know absolutely to be holy, and yet this man is prepared to publish something he apparently admits as being spurious in order to combat some other unnamed masked iniquity.

Glorifying a person as a saint does not endorse every single thing they taught.
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« Reply #95 on: December 30, 2010, 09:30:41 AM »

Quote from: Ebenezer
"Despite the 'egalitarian' 'anti-racist' babble espoused by Stalin and his ilk, they still murdered Jews and were no less vicious or murderous than the Nazis, his nice sounding speeches do not match up to the reality of what actually happened to Russian Jews. Also, define "Jewish telegraph agency." Was ist das? Hmm?"

I'm sure 'Stalin' killed anyone who got in his way... That's Communism (Talmudism condensed) for you.

"Nice sounding speeches"? I guess if one thinks that the simple accusation of so-called 'anti-Semitism' (a ridiculous misnomer in its current popular usage) deserves the death penalty.

As for what happened to the Russian 'Jews'... It was the Russian Orthodox Christians who suffered the most - not the so-called 'Jews'! 60 million plus were starved and murdered. Those Christians suffered and died under a system which was conceived, funded and implemented by 'Jews'. Period.

The Jewish Telegraph Agency was... the Jewish Telegraph Agency. What more can I say?

Here's another one for you:

The Jewish Telegraph Agency of May 14, 1997, said that the Jews had, "...played key roles in ushering Communist rule into Hungary. In fact, during the brutal oppression of the early 1950s, the regime's top five leaders were Jews.

I cannot help if you are offended by the truth - because you are a 'Jew' yourself... That's your issue... Facts are facts.

Who should we believe - you (an admitted 'Jew') and your useful ilk here... or the admittals of the Encyclopaedia Judaica?

Here are a couple of quotes from them and a link to more (as well as more quotes from Winston Churchill and others on the subject)...

"The Communist Movement and ideology played an important part In Jewish life, particularly in the  1920s, 1930s and during and after World War II."

"Communist trends became widespread in virtually all Jewish communities. In some countries, Jews became the leading element in the legal and illegal Communist Parties.."

"Individual Jews played an important role in the early stages of Bolshevism and the Soviet Regime"


The Encyclopedia Judaica on page 793 then goes on to reveal that the Communist International actually instructed Jews to change their names so as "not to confirm right-wing propaganda that presented Communism as an alien, Jewish conspiracy."

'Jews and Communism - The Suppressed Link'

And the blacks? 'Who Brought The Slaves To America?

†IC XC†
†NI KA†

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« Last Edit: December 30, 2010, 01:42:42 PM by Schultz » Logged

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« Reply #96 on: December 30, 2010, 09:45:25 AM »

Here we have a man reputed within Orthodoxy to be holy, a man blessed by others in Orthodoxy we know absolutely to be holy, and yet this man is prepared to publish something he apparently admits as being spurious in order to combat some other unnamed masked iniquity.

Glorifying a person as a saint does not endorse every single thing they taught.

Exactly.
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« Reply #97 on: December 30, 2010, 01:39:58 PM »

No it does not. But with respect to opinions of saints which may be off the mark, I would rather tread cautiously. We live in an age where the sensibilities of those in times passed are very easily judged and found wanting by the standards of our own times without the slightest concern that it is we who may be wrong.

Since I would rather not assume that such a person was intentionally dishonest, or bore malice against his fellow man (esp. if they are a saint or in that neighborhood), then I would rather set the strong emotions surrounding such an issue aside as it exists in our time so as to try and better understand why such a one thought as he thought.
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« Reply #98 on: December 30, 2010, 04:28:04 PM »

No it does not. But with respect to opinions of saints which may be off the mark, I would rather tread cautiously. We live in an age where the sensibilities of those in times passed are very easily judged and found wanting by the standards of our own times without the slightest concern that it is we who may be wrong.

Since I would rather not assume that such a person was intentionally dishonest, or bore malice against his fellow man (esp. if they are a saint or in that neighborhood), then I would rather set the strong emotions surrounding such an issue aside as it exists in our time so as to try and better understand why such a one thought as he thought.

A saint may be closer to God than the rest of us, but s/he is still a fallen person. Why be surprised? The main difference with the anti-Semitism of Nilus' time was that no one would have thought there was anything wrong with it. It was obvious to them that Jews were bad, if for no other reason than that they weren't Christians. I can't see where defending (or exploring) those attitudes gets you anywhere.
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« Reply #99 on: December 30, 2010, 04:34:28 PM »

Quote from: Ebenezer
"Despite the 'egalitarian' 'anti-racist' babble espoused by Stalin and his ilk, they still murdered Jews and were no less vicious or murderous than the Nazis, his nice sounding speeches do not match up to the reality of what actually happened to Russian Jews. Also, define "Jewish telegraph agency." Was ist das? Hmm?"

I'm sure 'Stalin' killed anyone who got in his way... That's Communism (Talmudism condensed) for you.

"Nice sounding speeches"? I guess if one thinks that the simple accusation of so-called 'anti-Semitism' (a ridiculous misnomer in its current popular usage) deserves the death penalty.

As for what happened to the Russian 'Jews'... It was the Russian Orthodox Christians who suffered the most - not the so-called 'Jews'! 60 million plus were starved and murdered. Those Christians suffered and died under a system which was conceived, funded and implemented by 'Jews'. Period.

The Jewish Telegraph Agency was... the Jewish Telegraph Agency. What more can I say?

Here's another one for you:

The Jewish Telegraph Agency of May 14, 1997, said that the Jews had, "...played key roles in ushering Communist rule into Hungary. In fact, during the brutal oppression of the early 1950s, the regime's top five leaders were Jews.

I cannot help if you are offended by the truth - because you are a 'Jew' yourself... That's your issue... Facts are facts.

Who should we believe - you (an admitted 'Jew') and your useful ilk here... or the admittals of the Encyclopaedia Judaica?

Here are a couple of quotes from them and a link to more (as well as more quotes from Winston Churchill and others on the subject)...

"The Communist Movement and ideology played an important part In Jewish life, particularly in the  1920s, 1930s and during and after World War II."

"Communist trends became widespread in virtually all Jewish communities. In some countries, Jews became the leading element in the legal and illegal Communist Parties.."

"Individual Jews played an important role in the early stages of Bolshevism and the Soviet Regime"


The Encyclopedia Judaica on page 793 then goes on to reveal that the Communist International actually instructed Jews to change their names so as "not to confirm right-wing propaganda that presented Communism as an alien, Jewish conspiracy."

'Jews and Communism - The Suppressed Link'

And the blacks? 'Who Brought The Slaves To America?

†IC XC†
†NI KA†




None of Hungary's top leaders were Jews, either before or after the crack-down in 1956. Hegedus was Protestant, and both Nagy and Kadar were Catholic, although non-observant.

Almost the entire Jewish population of the country perished in the Shoah.
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« Reply #100 on: December 30, 2010, 05:02:10 PM »

I pray for the day when this anti-semitic libel is a distant memory.
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« Reply #101 on: December 31, 2010, 05:03:44 PM »

Quote from: Saint Iaint link=topic=17836.msg507756#msg507756 date=1292487611[url=http://www.white-history.com/hwr61.htm
'Jews and Communism - The Suppressed Link'[/url]

Notice where this little screed comes from- it's a chapter out of March of the Titans: A History of the White Race.

That should give everyone a good idea of where "SaintIaint" is coming from.
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« Reply #102 on: January 01, 2011, 08:52:40 PM »

Quote from: Saint Iaint link=topic=17836.msg507756#msg507756 date=1292487611[url=http://www.white-history.com/hwr61.htm
'Jews and Communism - The Suppressed Link'[/url]

Notice where this little screed comes from- it's a chapter out of March of the Titans: A History of the White Race.

That should give everyone a good idea of where "SaintIaint" is coming from.

Yes, yes... attack the messenger, ignore the message or the actual primary sources for that message.

Classic ad hominem... Epic fail.

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« Reply #103 on: January 01, 2011, 09:27:57 PM »

A saint Iaint ain't. Wink
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« Reply #104 on: January 01, 2011, 10:46:33 PM »

Quote from: Saint Iaint link=topic=17836.msg507756#msg507756 date=1292487611[url=http://www.white-history.com/hwr61.htm
'Jews and Communism - The Suppressed Link'[/url]

Notice where this little screed comes from- it's a chapter out of March of the Titans: A History of the White Race.

That should give everyone a good idea of where "SaintIaint" is coming from.

Yes, yes... attack the messenger

Oh, you mean like digging into Marx's family history to link communism with tHa JOoOOhZ?

 
Quote
ignore the message or the actual primary sources for that message.

Since the article doesn't cite any primary sources, but just consists of assertions and unsubstantiated "facts," it would be hard to do otherwise.

Yeah, maybe it's unfair to point out the fact that you cite white supremacist propaganda for your arguments, but not more unfair than blaming Da JoOoOs for communism (and pretty much everything else wrong with the world.) And let's face it, if your assertions had as much truth to them as you believe, you wouldn't need to be scraping the bottom of the barrel, digging garbage up like this "history of the white race."

And while I can't prove you're a closet Nazi, I don't think any sane person reading this thread will doubt it.
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« Reply #105 on: January 02, 2011, 03:30:40 AM »

Quote from: Iconodule
'Oh, you mean like digging into Marx's family history to link communism with tHa JOoOOhZ"

No... No. There is plenty in Marx's messages themselves to address. I never said anything like, "Marx is a 'Jew' - therefore Communism is bad."

However the issue of the 'Jewish' predominance in early Communism is a separate one... and since Marx essentially created Communism... the fact that he too was 'Jewish' is notable.

Quote
"Since the article doesn't cite any primary sources, but just consists of assertions and unsubstantiated "facts," it would be hard to do otherwise."

I guess you were just hoping I wouldn't reply... or that no one would actually look at the links I offer as long as you can convince them that I am just a "Nazi"?

You either can't read or you're a liar.

Here are quotes, citing sources from the page you have a problem with:

"Above left and right: Two extracts from the Encyclopedia Britannica, Vol. 18, page 717, 1984, Chicago, describing Leon Trotsky's critical role in the creation of the Communist state of the Soviet Union, describing him as the "outstanding leader" of the Russian Communist Revolution. The same article then goes on, above left, to reveal that Trotsky was born Lev Davidovich Bronstein, of a Jewish family from the Ukraine.

(...) Above left: Karl Marx, whose real family name was Mordechai, originator of the Communist ideology. Above right: An extract from the Encyclopedia Britannica, Vol. 11, page 459, 1984, Chicago, revealing Karl Marx's Jewish ancestry.

(...) Part Two: The Encyclopedia Judaica Confirms the Jewish Origin of Communism

The Encyclopedia Judaica, published in Jerusalem, Israel, by Jews, is available at most large public libraries and is in English. This reference book for all things Jewish is quite open about the Jewish role in Communism, particularly early Communism, and contains a large number of admissions in this regard.

(...) Above: The front cover of Volume 5 of the 1971 edition of the Encyclopedia Judaica, published in Jerusalem, Israel, from where all of the extracts below have been taken.

Under the entry for "Communism": in Volume 5, page 792, the following appears:

"The Communist Movement and ideology played an important part In Jewish life, particularly in the  1920s, 1930s and during and after World War II." (below)

(...) On page 793, the same Encyclopedia Judaica then goes on to say that "Communist trends became widespread in virtually all Jewish communities. In some countries, Jews became the leading element in the legal and illegal Communist Parties.."

(...) The Encyclopedia Judaica on page 793 then goes on to reveal that the Communist International actually instructed Jews to change their names so as "not confirm right-wing propaganda that presented Communism as an alien, Jewish conspiracy." (above).

JEWISH ROLE IN THE RUSSIAN COMMUNIST REVOLUTION

The Encyclopedia Judaica then goes on to describe the overwhelming role Jews played in creating the Soviet Union. On page 792 it says : "Individual Jews played an important role in the early stages of Bolshevism and the Soviet Regime" (below).

(...) On page 794 of the Encyclopedia Judaica, this Jewish reference book then goes to list the Jews prominent in the upper command of the Russian Communist party: these included Maxim Litvinov, (Later foreign minister of Soviet Russia); Grigori Zinoviev, Lwev Kamenev, Jacob Sverdlov, Lazar Kaganovich, and Karl Radek, amongst many others. (Below: page 794 of the Encyclopedia Judaica).

(...) The organizer of the Revolution was Trotsky, who prepared a special  committee to plan and prepare the coup which brought the Communists to power. according tot he  Encyclopedia Judaica, this  committee, called the Military Revolutionary Committee,, had five members - three of whom were Jews. (below)

(...) The Politburo - the supreme governing body of Russia immediately after the Communist Revolution - had four Jews amongst its seven members, according to page 797 of the Jewish Encyclopedia Judaica (below).

(...) While many have alleged that Lenin was also Jewish, or at least of part Jewish origin, there is little concrete evidence of this. However, Lenin was ardently pro-Jewish, branding anti-Semitism (correctly) as "counter revolutionary" (Encyclopedia Judaica, page 798). A statement against anti-Semitism was made by Lenin in March 1919 and was "one of the rare occasions when his voice was put on a phonograph record to be used in a mass campaign against the counterrevolutionary incitement against the Jews," according to the Encyclopedia Judaica, page 798.  One of the first laws passed by the new Soviet Communist government was to outlaw anti-Semitism (Encyclopedia Judaica, page 798, extract above).

(...) Part Three: Winston Churchill on the Jewish Role in Communism

The preponderance of Jews in the inner sanctum of the Communist revolution in Russia was in fact well known at the time that the revolution took place: it is only in the post Second World War II era that this fact has been suppressed. A good example of the contemporary awareness of the Jewish nature of early Russian Communism can be found in the writing of the young  Winston Churchill, later to become prime minister of Great Britain, who, in 1920, was also working as journalist.

In 1920, Churchill wrote a full page article for the Illustrated Sunday Herald on 8 February 1920 detailing the Jewish involvement in the revolution. Churchill discusses in this article the split between Jews: some are Communists, he wrote, while others are Jewish nationalists. Churchill favored the Jewish nationalists, (and of course they indeed fall foul of the Jewish Communists, eventually becoming bitter enemies) and he appealed to what he called "loyal Jews" to ensure that the Communist Jews did not succeed. Churchill went even further and blamed the Jews for "every subversive movement during the Nineteenth Century", writing :

"This movement amongst the Jews (the Russian Revolution) is not new. From the days of Spartacus Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kuhn (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany) and Emma Goldman (United States), this world wide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilization and the reconstruction of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. It played, as a modern writer, Mrs. Nesta Webster, has so ably shown, a definitely recognizable part in the tragedy of the French Revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the Nineteenth Century; and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities has gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire. There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution by these international and for the most part atheistic Jews. Moreover, the principal inspiration and driving power comes from Jewish leaders." (ibid)

Churchill also pointedly accused Leon Trotsky (Bronstein) of wanting to establish a "world wide Communistic state under Jewish domination" in this article.

(...) Winston Churchill, later prime minister of Britain, pointed out the large Jewish involvement in the Communist revolution in an article published in the Illustrated Sunday Herald, 8 February 1920. See in particular under the heading "Terrorist Jews", enlarged below. For the full article, click here ( NB: large file)

(...) Churchill was not the only journalist to note the Jewish role in the Russian Revolution: Robert Wilton, the chief correspondent for the London Times, who was stationed in Russia at the time, wrote in his book The Last Days of the Romanovs (Hornton Butterworth, London, 1920, pages 147, 22-28, 81,118, 199, 127, 139-148) that "90 per cent" of the new Soviet government was composed of Jews. The correspondent for the London Morning Post, Victor Marsden, went further and actually compiled a list of names of the top 545 Bolshevik officials: of these, Marsden said, 454 were Jews and only 23 Non-Jewish Russians. (All These Things, A.N. Field, Appendix B pages 274-276).

(...) Part Four: The US Army's Telegrams on the Jewish role in Communism

The American Army Intelligence Service had its agents in  Russia at the time of the Communist Revolution, and the Jewish nature of that revolution is accurately reflected in those reports.

An American Senate subcommittee investigation into the Russian Revolution heard evidence, put on congressional record, that "(I)n December 1919, under the presidency of a man named Apfelbaum (Zinovieff) . . . out of the 388 members of the Bolshevik central government, only 16 happened to be real Russians, and all the rest (with the exception of a Negro from the U.S.) were Jews" (U.S. Senate Document 62, 1919).

Below: Both these telegrams are from official US National Archives: the upper one, State Department document 861.00/1757 was sent on 2 May 1918, from Moscow by US Consul General Summers. The lower one, State Department document 861.00/2205, was sent from Vladivostok on 5 July 1918, by US Consul Caldwell. Both describe the domination of the Bolshevik Communists by Jews, using the words "Fifty per cent of Soviet Government in each town consists of Jews of the worst type..."

Copies of documents from the US National Archives are freely available to anyone from the Washington DC, USA, office.

(...) AMERICAN COMMUNIST PARTY ALSO JEWISH

Jews were also behind the American Communist Party, which although politically unsuccessful, was very successful in its espionage and infiltration activities, eventually reaching right into the Civil Rights Movement and that group's leader, Martin Luther King.

According to the Encyclopedia Judaica, published in Jerusalem, Israel (1971), page 804 (extract below)  "the list of Jews who played a prominent role in the leadership and factional infighting of the American Communist Party is a long one . . .Many American Jewish authors and intellectuals, some of whom later recanted, were active in editing Communist publications and spreading party propaganda  . . among them Micheal Gold, Howard Fast and Bertram Wolfe."
 

That's right... I called you a liar. And I proved it.

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« Reply #106 on: January 02, 2011, 01:53:41 PM »

Quote from: Saint Iaint
No... No. There is plenty in Marx's messages themselves to address.

Then address them. The fact that almost your entire contribution to this forum consists of anti-Jewish rants reveals what your real priority is.

Quote
However the issue of the 'Jewish' predominance in early Communism is a separate one... and since Marx essentially created Communism... the fact that he too was 'Jewish' is notable.

Why?

Quote
I guess you were just hoping I wouldn't reply... or that no one would actually look at the links I offer as long as you can convince them that I am just a "Nazi"?

Encyclopedia Brittanica is not a "primary source." Winston Churchill's newspaper article is likewise not "primary", unless we are discussing anti-Semitism among English politicians. Nice try though. It's true, I didn't bother to go to Part 4 to read those American telegrams- I usually don't waste my time trawling through white supremacist propaganda- but I'm really curious how documents produced by the US intelligence agency somehow prove that the CPSU was run by Jews. This is not really "primary" either. Why couldn't they find Russian documents? Let me guess... "Obviously those Jewish Communists couldn't be trusted to give reliable data." Maybe you need to educate yoursel as to what a "primary source" is.

You should know that white nationalism is not compatible with the gospel.
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« Reply #107 on: January 02, 2011, 09:56:59 PM »

A saint Iaint ain't. Wink

Aw, you can read! Good for you!

~~~ ~~~ ~~~

Quote from: Saint Iaint
No... No. There is plenty in Marx's messages themselves to address.

Then address them. The fact that almost your entire contribution to this forum consists of anti-Jewish rants reveals what your real priority is.

Quote
However the issue of the 'Jewish' predominance in early Communism is a separate one... and since Marx essentially created Communism... the fact that he too was 'Jewish' is notable.

Why?

Quote
I guess you were just hoping I wouldn't reply... or that no one would actually look at the links I offer as long as you can convince them that I am just a "Nazi"?

Encyclopedia Brittanica is not a "primary source." Winston Churchill's newspaper article is likewise not "primary", unless we are discussing anti-Semitism among English politicians. Nice try though. It's true, I didn't bother to go to Part 4 to read those American telegrams- I usually don't waste my time trawling through white supremacist propaganda- but I'm really curious how documents produced by the US intelligence agency somehow prove that the CPSU was run by Jews. This is not really "primary" either. Why couldn't they find Russian documents? Let me guess... "Obviously those Jewish Communists couldn't be trusted to give reliable data." Maybe you need to educate yoursel as to what a "primary source" is.

You should know that white nationalism is not compatible with the gospel.


First - please forgive me for calling you a liar. That was wrong of me, and I am sorry for that.

Perhaps we are dealing with differing meanings of primary...

I thought you were basically saying that the only source for the things in question was whoever had written 'March of the Titans'. I just wanted to show that they had sources for the things therein, which were clearly listed.

Those included the Encyclopedia Brittanica and the Encyclopedia Judaica... I thought those were pretty good (if not strictly primary) sources to prove the blatant link between 'Jews' and Communism.

Same thing for Marx and Communism... Marx invented Communism. Marx was a 'Jew'.

Is it really so hard to see the connection there?

Communism was invented, financed and implemented in a disproportionately large part by so-called 'Jews'.

As for whether or not "White Nationalism" is compatible with the teachings of the Bible... Since I am not a "White Nationalist" - your point is irrelevant to me.

As far as I am concerned - there is only one race and that is the human race.

That however -  is not the doctrine of the Talmudists and Pharisees that call themselves 'Jews'.

According to their filthy Talmud - only the 'Jew' is considered to be "Man" as described in the Scriptures.

According to them - You and I and all non-'Jews' (Goyim) are not really human; we possess no soul and we were put here on Earth by God only to serve the 'Jews' as slaves.

Thanks to their institution of usurious fractional-reserve lending... most of us are just that: slaves to the now permanent taxes which are ostensibly needed to pay off the un-payable National debt.

If I have to work for half of the year to cover all of the various taxes... then for that half of the year when all of my hard-fought earnings go to the Government (which is beholden to the banks) - I am a SLAVE!

Most of these so-called 'Jews' are White people from Europe!

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« Reply #108 on: January 03, 2011, 01:33:35 AM »

Quote from: Iconodule
'Oh, you mean like digging into Marx's family history to link communism with tHa JOoOOhZ"

No... No. There is plenty in Marx's messages themselves to address. I never said anything like, "Marx is a 'Jew' - therefore Communism is bad."

However the issue of the 'Jewish' predominance in early Communism is a separate one... and since Marx essentially created Communism... the fact that he too was 'Jewish' is notable.

Quote
"Since the article doesn't cite any primary sources, but just consists of assertions and unsubstantiated "facts," it would be hard to do otherwise."

I guess you were just hoping I wouldn't reply... or that no one would actually look at the links I offer as long as you can convince them that I am just a "Nazi"?

You either can't read or you're a liar.

Here are quotes, citing sources from the page you have a problem with:

"Above left and right: Two extracts from the Encyclopedia Britannica, Vol. 18, page 717, 1984, Chicago, describing Leon Trotsky's critical role in the creation of the Communist state of the Soviet Union, describing him as the "outstanding leader" of the Russian Communist Revolution. The same article then goes on, above left, to reveal that Trotsky was born Lev Davidovich Bronstein, of a Jewish family from the Ukraine.

(...) Above left: Karl Marx, whose real family name was Mordechai, originator of the Communist ideology. Above right: An extract from the Encyclopedia Britannica, Vol. 11, page 459, 1984, Chicago, revealing Karl Marx's Jewish ancestry.

(...) Part Two: The Encyclopedia Judaica Confirms the Jewish Origin of Communism

The Encyclopedia Judaica, published in Jerusalem, Israel, by Jews, is available at most large public libraries and is in English. This reference book for all things Jewish is quite open about the Jewish role in Communism, particularly early Communism, and contains a large number of admissions in this regard.

(...) Above: The front cover of Volume 5 of the 1971 edition of the Encyclopedia Judaica, published in Jerusalem, Israel, from where all of the extracts below have been taken.

Under the entry for "Communism": in Volume 5, page 792, the following appears:

"The Communist Movement and ideology played an important part In Jewish life, particularly in the  1920s, 1930s and during and after World War II." (below)

(...) On page 793, the same Encyclopedia Judaica then goes on to say that "Communist trends became widespread in virtually all Jewish communities. In some countries, Jews became the leading element in the legal and illegal Communist Parties.."

(...) The Encyclopedia Judaica on page 793 then goes on to reveal that the Communist International actually instructed Jews to change their names so as "not confirm right-wing propaganda that presented Communism as an alien, Jewish conspiracy." (above).

JEWISH ROLE IN THE RUSSIAN COMMUNIST REVOLUTION

The Encyclopedia Judaica then goes on to describe the overwhelming role Jews played in creating the Soviet Union. On page 792 it says : "Individual Jews played an important role in the early stages of Bolshevism and the Soviet Regime" (below).

(...) On page 794 of the Encyclopedia Judaica, this Jewish reference book then goes to list the Jews prominent in the upper command of the Russian Communist party: these included Maxim Litvinov, (Later foreign minister of Soviet Russia); Grigori Zinoviev, Lwev Kamenev, Jacob Sverdlov, Lazar Kaganovich, and Karl Radek, amongst many others. (Below: page 794 of the Encyclopedia Judaica).

(...) The organizer of the Revolution was Trotsky, who prepared a special  committee to plan and prepare the coup which brought the Communists to power. according tot he  Encyclopedia Judaica, this  committee, called the Military Revolutionary Committee,, had five members - three of whom were Jews. (below)

(...) The Politburo - the supreme governing body of Russia immediately after the Communist Revolution - had four Jews amongst its seven members, according to page 797 of the Jewish Encyclopedia Judaica (below).

(...) While many have alleged that Lenin was also Jewish, or at least of part Jewish origin, there is little concrete evidence of this. However, Lenin was ardently pro-Jewish, branding anti-Semitism (correctly) as "counter revolutionary" (Encyclopedia Judaica, page 798). A statement against anti-Semitism was made by Lenin in March 1919 and was "one of the rare occasions when his voice was put on a phonograph record to be used in a mass campaign against the counterrevolutionary incitement against the Jews," according to the Encyclopedia Judaica, page 798.  One of the first laws passed by the new Soviet Communist government was to outlaw anti-Semitism (Encyclopedia Judaica, page 798, extract above).

(...) Part Three: Winston Churchill on the Jewish Role in Communism

The preponderance of Jews in the inner sanctum of the Communist revolution in Russia was in fact well known at the time that the revolution took place: it is only in the post Second World War II era that this fact has been suppressed. A good example of the contemporary awareness of the Jewish nature of early Russian Communism can be found in the writing of the young  Winston Churchill, later to become prime minister of Great Britain, who, in 1920, was also working as journalist.

In 1920, Churchill wrote a full page article for the Illustrated Sunday Herald on 8 February 1920 detailing the Jewish involvement in the revolution. Churchill discusses in this article the split between Jews: some are Communists, he wrote, while others are Jewish nationalists. Churchill favored the Jewish nationalists, (and of course they indeed fall foul of the Jewish Communists, eventually becoming bitter enemies) and he appealed to what he called "loyal Jews" to ensure that the Communist Jews did not succeed. Churchill went even further and blamed the Jews for "every subversive movement during the Nineteenth Century", writing :

"This movement amongst the Jews (the Russian Revolution) is not new. From the days of Spartacus Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kuhn (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany) and Emma Goldman (United States), this world wide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilization and the reconstruction of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. It played, as a modern writer, Mrs. Nesta Webster, has so ably shown, a definitely recognizable part in the tragedy of the French Revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the Nineteenth Century; and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities has gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire. There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution by these international and for the most part atheistic Jews. Moreover, the principal inspiration and driving power comes from Jewish leaders." (ibid)

Churchill also pointedly accused Leon Trotsky (Bronstein) of wanting to establish a "world wide Communistic state under Jewish domination" in this article.

(...) Winston Churchill, later prime minister of Britain, pointed out the large Jewish involvement in the Communist revolution in an article published in the Illustrated Sunday Herald, 8 February 1920. See in particular under the heading "Terrorist Jews", enlarged below. For the full article, click here ( NB: large file)

(...) Churchill was not the only journalist to note the Jewish role in the Russian Revolution: Robert Wilton, the chief correspondent for the London Times, who was stationed in Russia at the time, wrote in his book The Last Days of the Romanovs (Hornton Butterworth, London, 1920, pages 147, 22-28, 81,118, 199, 127, 139-148) that "90 per cent" of the new Soviet government was composed of Jews. The correspondent for the London Morning Post, Victor Marsden, went further and actually compiled a list of names of the top 545 Bolshevik officials: of these, Marsden said, 454 were Jews and only 23 Non-Jewish Russians. (All These Things, A.N. Field, Appendix B pages 274-276).

(...) Part Four: The US Army's Telegrams on the Jewish role in Communism

The American Army Intelligence Service had its agents in  Russia at the time of the Communist Revolution, and the Jewish nature of that revolution is accurately reflected in those reports.

An American Senate subcommittee investigation into the Russian Revolution heard evidence, put on congressional record, that "(I)n December 1919, under the presidency of a man named Apfelbaum (Zinovieff) . . . out of the 388 members of the Bolshevik central government, only 16 happened to be real Russians, and all the rest (with the exception of a Negro from the U.S.) were Jews" (U.S. Senate Document 62, 1919).

Below: Both these telegrams are from official US National Archives: the upper one, State Department document 861.00/1757 was sent on 2 May 1918, from Moscow by US Consul General Summers. The lower one, State Department document 861.00/2205, was sent from Vladivostok on 5 July 1918, by US Consul Caldwell. Both describe the domination of the Bolshevik Communists by Jews, using the words "Fifty per cent of Soviet Government in each town consists of Jews of the worst type..."

Copies of documents from the US National Archives are freely available to anyone from the Washington DC, USA, office.

(...) AMERICAN COMMUNIST PARTY ALSO JEWISH

Jews were also behind the American Communist Party, which although politically unsuccessful, was very successful in its espionage and infiltration activities, eventually reaching right into the Civil Rights Movement and that group's leader, Martin Luther King.

According to the Encyclopedia Judaica, published in Jerusalem, Israel (1971), page 804 (extract below)  "the list of Jews who played a prominent role in the leadership and factional infighting of the American Communist Party is a long one . . .Many American Jewish authors and intellectuals, some of whom later recanted, were active in editing Communist publications and spreading party propaganda  . . among them Micheal Gold, Howard Fast and Bertram Wolfe."
 

That's right... I called you a liar. And I proved it.

†IC XC†
†NI KA†


Only Kaganovich and Trotsky were full members of the Politburo. And so what if they had Jewish backgrounds? Does anyone think they were observant Jews or that their ethnicity played a role in their revolutionary politics? None of them, including Mark, were Zionists or supported Jewish institutions in any way.

Russia/USSR had a huge Jewish population, a high percentage of which were educated. A large number of the early revolutionaries (including Lenin/Ulyanov) were from the aristocracy or educated by the church (Stalin/Dzhugashvili), too. The universities in general were hotbeds of revolutionary unrest.

I get so tired of the assumption that because a person is Jewish one can automatically assume they hold a whole range of specific political and social ideas. In Central and Eastern Europe, an enormous percentage of the population has a Jewish relative somewhere in the family tree. (Including a number of top Nazis, Goering and Heydrich among them.)

It's also interesting that this discussion always tends to focus on the negative things a few Jews have been associated with. Why is that? Why is there never any mention of the thousands of humanitarian and artistic efforts supported by Jews and Jewish organizations?
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« Reply #109 on: January 03, 2011, 01:55:13 PM »



[/quote]
I get so tired of the assumption that because a person is Jewish one can automatically assume they hold a whole range of specific political and social ideas. In Central and Eastern Europe, an enormous percentage of the population has a Jewish relative somewhere in the family tree. (Including a number of top Nazis, Goering and Heydrich among them.)

It's also interesting that this discussion always tends to focus on the negative things a few Jews have been associated with. Why is that? Why is there never any mention of the thousands of humanitarian and artistic efforts supported by Jews and Jewish organizations?
[/quote]

I agree, it is interesting to notr that we Orthodox are very often misrepresented and stereotyped because of the extreme world views and superstitious practices of some. When we are so tarred, we rise up into a rage and fury.
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« Reply #110 on: January 03, 2011, 02:06:52 PM »

Quote from: Hermogenes
I get so tired of the assumption that because a person is Jewish one can automatically assume they hold a whole range of specific political and social ideas.

Agreed. Many of the Jewish radicals held Judaism in contempt. For example, at the turn of the century, Jewish anarchists in Philadelphia and New York City would hold "Yom Kippur balls" to mock the Jewish religion.

Many of the leading critics of Zionism are of Jewish heritage: Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn, Norman Finkelstein, etc.

Attempting to connect Marxism to "Talmudism" is laughable. Guess what? Some of the leading theorists of anarchism, including Michael Bakunin and Prince Peter Kropotkin, were Russian aristocrats. Ooh, maybe anarchism is just an Orthodox conspiracy!
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« Reply #111 on: January 04, 2011, 09:16:42 AM »

Quote from: Hermogenes
I get so tired of the assumption that because a person is Jewish one can automatically assume they hold a whole range of specific political and social ideas.

Agreed. Many of the Jewish radicals held Judaism in contempt. For example, at the turn of the century, Jewish anarchists in Philadelphia and New York City would hold "Yom Kippur balls" to mock the Jewish religion.

Many of the leading critics of Zionism are of Jewish heritage: Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn, Norman Finkelstein, etc.

Attempting to connect Marxism to "Talmudism" is laughable. Guess what? Some of the leading theorists of anarchism, including Michael Bakunin and Prince Peter Kropotkin, were Russian aristocrats. Ooh, maybe anarchism is just an Orthodox conspiracy!

And Ulyanov, aka Lenin, who was a member of the nobility, as well as a non-Russian. He was of Chugash ancestry.

Revolution was in the air all throughout Europe.It spawned everything from the Black Hand in Serbia to the Fascist party in Italy. people from all walks of life were involved. One of the most famous was her royal and imperial highness Archduchess Elizabeth Marie of Austria. She was the daughter of Crown Prince Rudolph and granddaughter of the embodiment of the status quo, Franz Joseph I. So it cut all across lines of class and interest. It's ridiculous to say it was a Jewish phenomenon, although maybe not to say that as a persecuted group they might have had more personal interest in change than someone like Prince Kropotkin.
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« Reply #112 on: January 04, 2011, 09:25:26 AM »

And Ulyanov, aka Lenin, who was a member of the nobility, as well as a non-Russian. He was of Chugash ancestry.

Chuvash, and only through his paternal grandfather.
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« Reply #113 on: January 04, 2011, 09:26:54 AM »

And Ulyanov, aka Lenin, who was a member of the nobility, as well as a non-Russian. He was of Chugash ancestry.

Chuvash, and only through his paternal grandfather.

Sorry for the spelling, I don't type well.
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« Reply #114 on: January 10, 2011, 12:26:39 PM »

Only Kaganovich and Trotsky were full members of the Politburo. And so what if they had Jewish backgrounds? Does anyone think they were observant Jews or that their ethnicity played a role in their revolutionary politics? None of them, including Mark, were Zionists
Is Zionism the determinate of Judaism?  The Ultra-Orthodox were, and are not, Zionists, but they seem to think that they are Jews.  In fact, the lion's share of Zioinists today are evangelical Protestants.
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« Reply #115 on: January 10, 2011, 12:48:44 PM »

Only Kaganovich and Trotsky were full members of the Politburo. And so what if they had Jewish backgrounds? Does anyone think they were observant Jews or that their ethnicity played a role in their revolutionary politics? None of them, including Mark, were Zionists
Is Zionism the determinate of Judaism?  The Ultra-Orthodox were, and are not, Zionists, but they seem to think that they are Jews.  In fact, the lion's share of Zioinists today are evangelical Protestants.

I meant "including Marx," of course.
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