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Author Topic: The Protocols of the Elders of Zion  (Read 10708 times) Average Rating: 0
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Acolyte
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« on: October 11, 2008, 07:55:47 AM »

What is the Protocols of the Elders of Zion? Was it a hoax by the Tsarist government?
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« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2008, 09:18:53 AM »

Yes. Next question please.
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« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2008, 09:47:32 AM »

No. Next question please.  Tongue
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« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2008, 10:27:29 AM »

Maybe.  Next question please.
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« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2008, 11:41:02 AM »

Total hoax, next question please.   angel
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« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2008, 12:32:53 PM »

What is are the Protocols of the Elders of Zion? Next question please.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2008, 12:33:21 PM by ytterbiumanalyst » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2008, 04:14:57 PM »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protocols_of_the_elders_of_zion
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« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2008, 04:41:56 PM »

I think this is one of the questions from the category, "Did Americans land on the Moon?", "Was Lee H. Oswald the only person who shot at Kennedy," etc. etc. etc.  Grin

It certainly does look like a hoax. Yet, I read somewhere that Sergey Nilus, a very deep and most definitely Orthodox Russian writer of the late 1800-s - early 1900-s could have been the author of this opus.
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« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2008, 04:51:41 PM »

and most definitely Orthodox Russian writer of the late 1800-s - early 1900-s could have been the author of this opus.

What do you mean "most definitely Orthodox"? Undecided
What is "Orthodox" about producing a forgery in order to vilify people and incite hatred? Don't all lies have the father of lies as their ultimate source?
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« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2008, 05:22:07 PM »

and most definitely Orthodox Russian writer of the late 1800-s - early 1900-s could have been the author of this opus.

What do you mean "most definitely Orthodox"? Undecided
What is "Orthodox" about producing a forgery in order to vilify people and incite hatred? Don't all lies have the father of lies as their ultimate source?

Well, Nilus was a very devout Orthodox, at least appeared to be... I don't want to judge the sincerity of his convictions.

BTW, the Russian online library "XPOHOC" has an article about him, which mentions that St. John of Kronshtadt gave Nilus a special blessing to publish the "Protocols" (http://hronos.km.ru/biograf/bio_n/nilus.html). Perhaps St. John was as bigoted against Jews as Nilus was, and yet he still was, and is, an Orthodox saint. It's all complicated...
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« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2008, 05:25:21 PM »

Lets ask Matthew what he thinks.
What do you think Matthew?
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« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2008, 05:59:55 PM »

and most definitely Orthodox Russian writer of the late 1800-s - early 1900-s could have been the author of this opus.

What do you mean "most definitely Orthodox"? Undecided
What is "Orthodox" about producing a forgery in order to vilify people and incite hatred? Don't all lies have the father of lies as their ultimate source?

Anti-Jewish sentiment seems to be a besetting fault of the Orthodox, in which Nilus naturally participated.  (Whatever may be the moral turpitude of entertaining such a sentiment, it helps to understand whence it arose:  Bat Ye'or claims with some force that the propagation of anti-Jewish sentiment was the means by which Orthodox Christians were able to pacify their Moslem masters).  I argue that we are all like babies--unaware of the scent of our own diapers--and so without consenting to the faults of others are obliged to not let those faults blind us to the virtues of others.  In the case of S. Nilus, there can be no doubt that he was taken in by the Protocols because of its substance.  I had read that the Protocols, though fraudulent, were yet prophetic of much of the 20th century, and had wondered how the perpetrators could have been so prescient.  It turns out that much of the Protocols were based plagiarized.  In particular, they drew on Maurice Joly's _Dialogues in Hell Between Machiavelli and Montesquieu_ (http://www.geocities.com/net3431/Dialogues_In_Hell.html), which turn out to be very meaty reading indeed.  If you read Joly and then the Protocols, you will understand how the Protocols pass back and forth from penetrating thought to sheer hysteria.  
Also, think about how many people of education and discretion were in mid-century blind-sided by, say, Freud or Jung.  
DanM
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« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2008, 06:47:51 PM »

Lets ask Matthew what he thinks.
What do you think Matthew?
OK, I'll bite; who's Matthew?
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« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2008, 07:46:37 PM »

Lets ask Matthew what he thinks.
What do you think Matthew?
OK, I'll bite; who's Matthew?
A poster from before our time.
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« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2008, 07:54:13 PM »

If it is indeed Matthew, it is good to see him return. Now if we could just get TomS back, this place would really liven up!...

EDIT--Although I see that Matthew is no longer banned, but is only warned now on his old name.
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« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2008, 07:58:54 PM »

A poster from before our time.

A banned poster from before your time.
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« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2008, 09:57:57 PM »

IMHO, I don't think Matthew777 should have been banned.  He is just young, idealist and enthusiastic.  Now regarding TomS...I was only privy to about a years worth of his posts which although were caustic at times also proved to be quite entertaining.  I especially enjoyed his return as SmoT, ha ha!!!

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« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2008, 10:55:24 PM »

DIXIT ALIQUIS
Perhaps St. John was as bigoted against Jews as Nilus was, and yet he still was, and is, an Orthodox saint. It's all complicated...

DICO
Not necessarily.  St. John of K. cd. have been taken in, too.  Saints are not infallible.
DanM
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« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2008, 01:19:23 AM »

I am not an idealist. The more you learn about human nature, the more you realize that the world will get worse before it ever gets better, and that peace can only be found from within.
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« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2008, 06:27:59 AM »

I am not an idealist. The more you learn about human nature, the more you realize that the world will get worse before it ever gets better, and that peace can only be found from within.
At any rate, it's good to see you back Matthew, however, could you please look at the forum rules, in particular, the first general rule.
We need to find a solution to this situation of you having two usernames, so please work with us on this.
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« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2008, 06:36:29 AM »

If it is indeed Matthew, it is good to see him return. Now if we could just get TomS back, this place would really liven up!...

EDIT--Although I see that Matthew is no longer banned, but is only warned now on his old name.

Actually, no, there is still a ban in place (which is not visible in your view of his profile), however, both Matthew and TomS were in fact invited to apply for readmission by the Mod team a few weeks ago.
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« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2008, 07:26:00 AM »

Matthew/Pensees/Spyridon is back? Oh my...Invited back you say? I have many questions for the lad.  Wink
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« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2008, 07:37:39 AM »

Matthew/Pensees/Spyridon is back? Oh my...Invited back you say?
He was invited to apply for readmission under his old name of Matthew777. Registering under a new name and email was something he did himself without applying and is a no-no under forum rules. Hopefully he will work with us to rectify this.
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« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2008, 08:07:58 AM »

Matthew/Pensees/Spyridon is back? Oh my...Invited back you say?
He was invited to apply for readmission under his old name of Matthew777. Registering under a new name and email was something he did himself without applying and is a no-no under forum rules. Hopefully he will work with us to rectify this.

Understood; that's your job. My questions are along other lines.

I must give my buddy Smot as nudge.
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« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2008, 09:23:24 AM »

Brother Matthew (Acolyte),
   Forgive me if I offended you.  Welcome back.  I hope you go back to your old username.

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« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2008, 05:24:36 PM »

I really am an acolyte.
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« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2008, 05:28:27 PM »

I really am an acolyte.

That's just spiffing, but what has that to do with anything?
You were asked to apply for readmission, but you did not apply for readmission, you just opened a new account for yourself.
So how about you pm the Admin/Mod team and we get this sorted out?
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« Reply #27 on: October 19, 2008, 08:40:22 PM »

So what's up Matthew? How about gettin' this whole thing straightened out?
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« Reply #28 on: October 19, 2008, 08:50:19 PM »

Yes, Matthew, you've been fooling no one for quite a while.

Let us know which user name you wish to use (Acolyte? Matthew777? Pensees? Something else?), and then your posts currently stuck in the Moderation Corral can be released to the forum.
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« Reply #29 on: October 24, 2008, 06:56:18 PM »

This was indeed a hoax written by some antisemitic Russians. Unfortunately many Orthodox supported it, but the metropolitan of Moscow (when it was written) condemned it.
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« Reply #30 on: November 08, 2010, 09:07:33 AM »

Maybe.  Next question please.
  Grin
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« Reply #31 on: November 08, 2010, 10:47:14 AM »

http://www.amazon.com/Plot-Secret-Story-Protocols-Elders/dp/0393060454


I highly recommend the above work about this. Will Eisner is a master of comics and debunks the hoax masterfully with thorough historical facts while producing a piece that catches our attention from the beginning.
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« Reply #32 on: November 23, 2010, 07:02:06 AM »

Please google THE PROTOCOLS OF THE LEARNED ELDERS OF ZION, and read as much as you can, it is very long, but worth reading, please let me know what you think of this???

God Bless you,

Andreas
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« Reply #33 on: November 23, 2010, 07:12:04 AM »

it's proven to be a fraud
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Learned_Elders_of_Zion
http://www.skepdic.com/protocols.html
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1797/whats-the-story-with-the-protocols-of-the-elders-of-zion
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« Reply #34 on: November 23, 2010, 07:42:25 AM »

I love that Tallitot was the one to respond to this.  Grin
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« Reply #35 on: November 23, 2010, 08:50:11 AM »

It was Sergey Nilus who printed and reprinted The Protocols and then printed them again.  If the 1917 Revolution had not stopped him he would have gone on printing them,  They were taken to Western Europe after 1917 by the Russians who were fleeing the Soviets.

Nilus himself knew that the Protocols were fake but he wanted to make use of them in his anti-Jewish campaign.....  Nilus:  "Let us admit that the Protocols are spurious, but can't God use them to unmask the iniquity that is being prepared?"

I have read somewhere that Russian bishops are printing them with an episcopal blessing, in Russia.  Shame on them.
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« Reply #36 on: November 23, 2010, 08:55:56 AM »

Boze moj. My God. Here we go again. The poisoned fruits of the forces of darkness unleashed by that 'work' and others have borne much evil and will bear more in the future if some, as Orthodox continue to promote such a canard. That 'work' is the basis for one of the greatest, if not the greatest, crime ever perpetrated by a people against other human beings in the modern age. I am speaking of the Holocaust of course. Visiting the Holocaust Museum in Washington, D.C. (or other such memorials in Berlin and elsewhere)and reflecting on why it occurred and how a nation that produced the some of the greatest achievements of post-Enlightenment Europe - musicians, artists, writers, scientists - could reduce itself to such barbarity against fellow humans seems to me to be an appropriate penance for anyone going down that path. The same mentality that allowed the forces of the German state to strike out against the Jewish population of Europe allowed that state to enslave and kill millions of Slavs, Roma and others, including multitudes of Christian martyrs who died in the darkness of the labor camps or in defense of their families and neighbors, Orthodox and non-Orthodox alike, who are known only to God. Not to mention that the 'book' is still a large part of the state-sponsored 'education' of Muslim youth in the Muslim world. As we enter Philip's Fast (Filipovka) we ought to be focusing our souls on the mystery the Incarnation - not upon the products of fear, hatred and ignorance like the 'opus' suggested by the OP.
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« Reply #37 on: November 23, 2010, 09:00:46 AM »

Please google THE PROTOCOLS OF THE LEARNED ELDERS OF ZION, and read as much as you can, it is very long, but worth reading, please let me know what you think of this???

God Bless you,

Andreas
I've read the whole thing, and it doesn't even make good toilet paper, let alone anything factual.
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« Reply #38 on: November 23, 2010, 11:59:48 AM »

If you really want to know the truth about who, or what, is controlling our world, you must watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJHiU-X9Y-0&feature=related
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« Reply #39 on: November 23, 2010, 12:15:08 PM »

If you really want to know the truth about who, or what, is controlling our world, you must watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJHiU-X9Y-0&feature=related

A man on the George Noory show once said that Britney Spears was being controlled by microwaves. He may have had something there.
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« Reply #40 on: November 23, 2010, 12:30:22 PM »

"You're travelling through another dimension. A dimension, not only of sight and sound, but of mind. A journey into a wondrous land whose boundaries are that of imagination. Next stop, the Twilight Zone!" ....thanks to a distinguished alum of my high school, Binghamton Central, Rod Serling.... Wink
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« Reply #41 on: November 23, 2010, 08:13:47 PM »

The Protocols Hoax
By Gordon Stein

http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2010/09/protocols-hoax.html


Some hoaxes are harmless and can be considered for their humor alone. The Protocols of the Elders of Zion hoax (hereafter called the Protocols) is another matter altogether. This hoax had serious, even deadly consequences. Lives were lost as a result because of this hoax, although it is impossible to estimate how many.

The Protocols have a tangled and mysterious history. Many scholars have worked to untangle this history, but the greatest credit goes to Norman Cohn, author of Warrant for Genocide. Other major contributions were made by Herman Bernstein and Philip Graves, each of whom identified one of the two novels that were major sources for the Protocols.

While not all the steps by which the Protocols arrived in final form are known, it appears that production started in Russia in about 1895. However, The true origin of the Protocols lies in Paris, 1864. In that year, a political satirist named Maurice Joly published his book. Although the book was actually published in Brussels, its title page said it was published in Geneva. Joly's book, Dialogue aux Enfer entre Montesquieu et Machiavel (A Dialog in Hell Between Montesquieu and Machiavelli), openly criticized Emperor Napoleon III -- which, at the time, was criminal. The author put the emperor's words into the mouth of political philosophers Machiavelli and Montesquieu, using the latter to present the case for liberalism. The book was smuggled into France, but was seized at the border. Joly was arrested and tried. On April 25,1865, he was sentenced to fifteen months imprisonment. The book was banned and copies confiscated, making it a rare work. This rarity has helped hide the fact that large sections of the imagined dialog have been lifted and grafted on to the work that became the Protocols. [My wife, who speaks French, has personally verified this. -Birdman]



http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2010/09/protocols-hoax.html

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« Reply #42 on: November 23, 2010, 09:43:49 PM »

Please google THE PROTOCOLS OF THE LEARNED ELDERS OF ZION, and read as much as you can, it is very long, but worth reading, please let me know what you think of this???

God Bless you,

Andreas

I think that it is well-known to be a forgery.
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« Reply #43 on: November 23, 2010, 10:08:36 PM »

The more people read this garbage and have it printed only pushes humanity back a few thousand steps. It is terrible to believe in crap like this. Lord have mercy!
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« Reply #44 on: November 23, 2010, 10:12:30 PM »

Not to mention that the 'book' is still a large part of the state-sponsored 'education' of Muslim youth in the Muslim world.

Not saying you're wrong, but do you have any references to the Protocols used in school textbooks? The Saudi textbooks seem to base their hatred of Jews on hadiths, not the Protocols.

I have seen the Protocols sold in the Middle East, though. I remember walking past a book stand on a Cairo street where the Protocols was right next to a flattering biography of Hitler and the "Gospel of Barnabas". I tried to get a photo, but the bookseller knew how controversial his stock was to the West and got rather aggressive.
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« Reply #45 on: November 23, 2010, 11:27:01 PM »

I say either they're real... or else reality has somehow magically come to coincide with a "forged" (sic) document.

"The greatest measure of the veracity of a prediction is its subsequent fulfillment."

"The London 'Times' Stated on August 17, 1921: "These documents attracted only a little attention before the Revolution of 1917. The astounding breakdown of a great state due to attack by Bolshiviks and the presence of countless Jews among them, had the result that many people were looking for reasonable explanations of the catastrophe. The 'Protocols' furnished this explanation, especially as the tactics of the Bolsheviks at many points, were identical with the recommendations of the 'Protocols.'"

The "Protocols" were published in many countries although powerful efforts were made to prevent their publication. One edition dated 1917 (in German) bears the title "The Jewish Danger;" it attracted much attention. Public opinion became excited through the sudden revelation of this hellish conspiracy for the destruction of the Christian Civilization.

The "Morning Post" of London devoted several columns to this subject. A sensational article appeared in the "Times" of May 8, 1921, from which the following quotation was taken: "What do they mean, those 'Protocols?' Are they Genuine? Has a gang of criminals really drawn up such plans and is triumphing over their fulfillment? Are they a forgery? But how can one explain then this terrible prophetic gift that foretold all this before hand? Did we fight all these years to destroy the world power of Germany only to find ourselves now facing a much more dangerous enemy? Have we saved ourselves through enormous efforts from PAX GERMANICA only to fall a victim to PAX JUDAICA?"

The "Times" concludes this article with the following significant words: "If the' Protocols' were written by the Learned Elders of Zion then everything that was attempted and done against the Jews, is justified, necessary and urgent" Some weighty words!

Is there any wonder then that the powerful influences against which this terrible indictment is directed, made all possible efforts to bring this document into discredit?

(...)  Now let us continue our investigation. The path we are following is getting warmer we step on dangerous soil! Let us find out who is the gentleman identified as Maurice Joly; the mysterious correspondent (from Constantinople) "incidentally" paid no attention to his identity. Who was this "Frenchman," the author of the "Dialogues in Hell?" This problem is solved by Gottfried zur Beck in his preface to the German edition of the "Protocols." In which we find that Maurice Joly, according to the record, in his infancy was circumcised as Moses Joel! How strange!

Manifold Proofs: The highly remarkable book "Waters Flowing Eastward" by L. Fry contains much valuable information regarding Maurice Joly (Moses Joel). In the "Memoirs of Rene Mareuil," (one of the members of the Ministerial Cabinet of Polignac of France) is stated that Maurice Joly was born in 1831 and was employed in 1848 in the ministry at Chebreau as a minor employee. The young man was strongly influenced by Adolph Israel Cremieux (the founder of the Alliance Israelite Universelle.) Later he became a communist and was jailed for two years. In 1878 he committed suicide and at his burial the Jew Gambetta (former prime minister of France) delivered a postmortem speech.

It should be remembered that Gambetta played a certain part in the French commune, that Bolshevik reign of terror that existed in France from March 18th to May 29th, 1871, during which time Paris was robbed and ruined. Nevertheless, by a most remarkable 'coincidence none of the 145 houses owned by Alphonse Rothschild were damaged.'"


From 'A Huge Compendium of Arguments For and Against (the Authenticity of) the Protocols of the Elders of Zion'

Also see: 'Declassified United States Military Intelligence Division Report:"Protocols Are Genuine"'

Excerpt: 'RUSSIA !

Many of the witnesses who testified before the Senate Committee stated quite definitely that most of the prominent Bolshevik leaders were Jews. The following are quotations from one or two:

(1) Mr. Theodor Kryshtofovitch (page 424 Senate Record):

"Most of the people governing Russia now are Jews. I am not against Jews in general. They are a very capable and energetic people, but as you Americans say, the right man must be in the right place. Their place is in the Commission Houses, in Banks, in the offices, but not in the government of a fine agricultural country. They do not understand anything about agriculture, about production, about keeping materials and about distribution ********* I am talking about Bolsheviki; because if you take our Bolshevik Government, Lenine is a Russian and all these constellations that are turning around this sun are Jews. They have changed their names. For instance, Trotsky is not Trotsky but Bronstein."

Again on page 431 he says:

"They oppose the Russian clergy and the Russian clergy oppose the Bolsheviki, and the Russian priests are treated very badly. For instance, they are set to do street work, cleaning the streets, paving streets, digging ditches, and so on. The workmen told me several times: ‘The Bolsheviki are sending out priests to work in the streets. Why do they not send their Rabbis ?’ And that is true. The Jewish Rabbis are not sent to work on the streets."

Colonel V. S. Hurban, the leader of the Checho-Slovaks in Russia (page 444 of the Senate Record):

"It is also logical that the morals of the officials should be corrupt. I cannot deny it because it is a fact, and it is useless to deny it, that in the Soviets from the beginning there have been a very large percentage of Jews. It cannnot be denied. I can explain myself. We cannot blame them because it is just their revenge."'


In the USSR so-called 'Anti-Semitism' (exposing the crimes of the so-called 'Jews') was punishable BY DEATH. If one was found in possession of a copy of 'The Protocols' - DEATH.

Russians and Ukrainians (your fellow Christians) were murdered by the tens of millions (SIXTY-SIX MILLION according to Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn) with 'Jewish' money in a system (Communism) which was both invented and implemented by the so-called 'Jews'... but all we hear about is the Holocaust™. Everywhere under the Bolsheviks Orthodox Churches toppled and burned - while the synagogues remained.

How is it that a simple man like Nilus accurately predicted that the International 'Jews' would take over Holy Russia?

†IC XC†
†NI KA†
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« Reply #46 on: November 24, 2010, 01:43:18 AM »


How is it that a simple man like Nilus accurately predicted that the International 'Jews' would take over Holy Russia?


How is it that the International Jews took over Holy China? 
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« Reply #47 on: November 24, 2010, 01:47:12 AM »

* BUMP *

This has information useful in the current thread.
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« Reply #48 on: November 24, 2010, 02:53:18 AM »


How is it that a simple man like Nilus accurately predicted that the International 'Jews' would take over Holy Russia?


How is it that the International Jews took over Holy China? 

Are you serious?

Why - Opium of course!

†IC XC†
†NI KA†
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« Reply #49 on: November 24, 2010, 05:26:46 AM »

The "Protocols" seem to me like a good topic to redline if we are serious about wanting to avoid spreading racist views or inciting hatred. Members of the Ku Klux Klan used the so-called protocols to "prove" their anti-Semitic views. I hope we can most of us agree that the Klan doesn't disseminate Orthodox teachings.
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« Reply #50 on: November 24, 2010, 10:51:40 AM »

The "Protocols" seem to me like a good topic to redline if we are serious about wanting to avoid spreading racist views or inciting hatred. Members of the Ku Klux Klan used the so-called protocols to "prove" their anti-Semitic views. I hope we can most of us agree that the Klan doesn't disseminate Orthodox teachings.

Indeed, the Klan was quite active in the North during the 1920's galvanizing American Protestants in an anti-immigration fervor directed in part against Slavs and Greeks who came in waves from 1900 though 1925 or so. Many of the immigrants were, of course  Orthodox or Eastern Catholic.
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« Reply #51 on: November 24, 2010, 12:59:12 PM »

I say either they're real... or else reality has somehow magically come to coincide with a "forged" (sic) document.

"The greatest measure of the veracity of a prediction is its subsequent fulfillment."

"The London 'Times' Stated on August 17, 1921: "These documents attracted only a little attention before the Revolution of 1917. The astounding breakdown of a great state due to attack by Bolshiviks and the presence of countless Jews among them, had the result that many people were looking for reasonable explanations of the catastrophe. The 'Protocols' furnished this explanation, especially as the tactics of the Bolsheviks at many points, were identical with the recommendations of the 'Protocols.'"

The "Protocols" were published in many countries although powerful efforts were made to prevent their publication. One edition dated 1917 (in German) bears the title "The Jewish Danger;" it attracted much attention. Public opinion became excited through the sudden revelation of this hellish conspiracy for the destruction of the Christian Civilization.

The "Morning Post" of London devoted several columns to this subject. A sensational article appeared in the "Times" of May 8, 1921, from which the following quotation was taken: "What do they mean, those 'Protocols?' Are they Genuine? Has a gang of criminals really drawn up such plans and is triumphing over their fulfillment? Are they a forgery? But how can one explain then this terrible prophetic gift that foretold all this before hand? Did we fight all these years to destroy the world power of Germany only to find ourselves now facing a much more dangerous enemy? Have we saved ourselves through enormous efforts from PAX GERMANICA only to fall a victim to PAX JUDAICA?"

The "Times" concludes this article with the following significant words: "If the' Protocols' were written by the Learned Elders of Zion then everything that was attempted and done against the Jews, is justified, necessary and urgent" Some weighty words!

Is there any wonder then that the powerful influences against which this terrible indictment is directed, made all possible efforts to bring this document into discredit?

(...)  Now let us continue our investigation. The path we are following is getting warmer we step on dangerous soil! Let us find out who is the gentleman identified as Maurice Joly; the mysterious correspondent (from Constantinople) "incidentally" paid no attention to his identity. Who was this "Frenchman," the author of the "Dialogues in Hell?" This problem is solved by Gottfried zur Beck in his preface to the German edition of the "Protocols." In which we find that Maurice Joly, according to the record, in his infancy was circumcised as Moses Joel! How strange!

Manifold Proofs: The highly remarkable book "Waters Flowing Eastward" by L. Fry contains much valuable information regarding Maurice Joly (Moses Joel). In the "Memoirs of Rene Mareuil," (one of the members of the Ministerial Cabinet of Polignac of France) is stated that Maurice Joly was born in 1831 and was employed in 1848 in the ministry at Chebreau as a minor employee. The young man was strongly influenced by Adolph Israel Cremieux (the founder of the Alliance Israelite Universelle.) Later he became a communist and was jailed for two years. In 1878 he committed suicide and at his burial the Jew Gambetta (former prime minister of France) delivered a postmortem speech.

It should be remembered that Gambetta played a certain part in the French commune, that Bolshevik reign of terror that existed in France from March 18th to May 29th, 1871, during which time Paris was robbed and ruined. Nevertheless, by a most remarkable 'coincidence none of the 145 houses owned by Alphonse Rothschild were damaged.'"


From 'A Huge Compendium of Arguments For and Against (the Authenticity of) the Protocols of the Elders of Zion'

Also see: 'Declassified United States Military Intelligence Division Report:"Protocols Are Genuine"'

Excerpt: 'RUSSIA !

Many of the witnesses who testified before the Senate Committee stated quite definitely that most of the prominent Bolshevik leaders were Jews. The following are quotations from one or two:

(1) Mr. Theodor Kryshtofovitch (page 424 Senate Record):

"Most of the people governing Russia now are Jews. I am not against Jews in general. They are a very capable and energetic people, but as you Americans say, the right man must be in the right place. Their place is in the Commission Houses, in Banks, in the offices, but not in the government of a fine agricultural country. They do not understand anything about agriculture, about production, about keeping materials and about distribution ********* I am talking about Bolsheviki; because if you take our Bolshevik Government, Lenine is a Russian and all these constellations that are turning around this sun are Jews. They have changed their names. For instance, Trotsky is not Trotsky but Bronstein."

Again on page 431 he says:

"They oppose the Russian clergy and the Russian clergy oppose the Bolsheviki, and the Russian priests are treated very badly. For instance, they are set to do street work, cleaning the streets, paving streets, digging ditches, and so on. The workmen told me several times: ‘The Bolsheviki are sending out priests to work in the streets. Why do they not send their Rabbis ?’ And that is true. The Jewish Rabbis are not sent to work on the streets."

Colonel V. S. Hurban, the leader of the Checho-Slovaks in Russia (page 444 of the Senate Record):

"It is also logical that the morals of the officials should be corrupt. I cannot deny it because it is a fact, and it is useless to deny it, that in the Soviets from the beginning there have been a very large percentage of Jews. It cannnot be denied. I can explain myself. We cannot blame them because it is just their revenge."'


In the USSR so-called 'Anti-Semitism' (exposing the crimes of the so-called 'Jews') was punishable BY DEATH. If one was found in possession of a copy of 'The Protocols' - DEATH.

Russians and Ukrainians (your fellow Christians) were murdered by the tens of millions (SIXTY-SIX MILLION according to Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn) with 'Jewish' money in a system (Communism) which was both invented and implemented by the so-called 'Jews'... but all we hear about is the Holocaust™. Everywhere under the Bolsheviks Orthodox Churches toppled and burned - while the synagogues remained.

How is it that a simple man like Nilus accurately predicted that the International 'Jews' would take over Holy Russia?

†IC XC†
†NI KA†


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« Reply #52 on: November 24, 2010, 01:41:10 PM »

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« Reply #53 on: November 24, 2010, 02:08:01 PM »


How is it that a simple man like Nilus accurately predicted that the International 'Jews' would take over Holy Russia?


How is it that the International Jews took over Holy China? 

Are you serious?

Why - Opium of course!

†IC XC†
†NI KA†


Um, that was the British? "EXACTLY- THE BRITISH ARE ALL JOOOZ!"
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« Reply #54 on: November 24, 2010, 02:33:46 PM »


How is it that a simple man like Nilus accurately predicted that the International 'Jews' would take over Holy Russia?


How is it that the International Jews took over Holy China? 

Are you serious?

Why - Opium of course!

†IC XC†
†NI KA†


Um, that was the British? "EXACTLY- THE BRITISH ARE ALL JOOOZ!"

Um. didn't the 'saintly' papa joe stalin get bounced out of Seminary in Georgia before becoming a mass murderer of the greatest order? Must have been you know who's fault, of course.
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« Reply #55 on: November 25, 2010, 02:11:17 AM »

Quote from: Saint Iaint
Are you serious?

Why - Opium of course!

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This would be funny, if it weren't so sad.
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« Reply #56 on: November 26, 2010, 12:07:49 AM »


How is it that a simple man like Nilus accurately predicted that the International 'Jews' would take over Holy Russia?


How is it that the International Jews took over Holy China? 



Are you serious?

Why - Opium of course!

†IC XC†
†NI KA†


Um, that was the British? "EXACTLY- THE BRITISH ARE ALL JOOOZ!"

British eh?

Ya think?

Honk Kong: The Land Built On Opium

Guess Who Created The Opium Trade

The Chinese Opium Wars And The British Jews (PDF)



How is it that a simple man like Nilus accurately predicted that the International 'Jews' would take over Holy Russia?


How is it that the International Jews took over Holy China? 

Are you serious?

Why - Opium of course!

†IC XC†
†NI KA†


Um, that was the British? "EXACTLY- THE BRITISH ARE ALL JOOOZ!"

Um. didn't the 'saintly' papa joe stalin get bounced out of Seminary in Georgia before becoming a mass murderer of the greatest order? Must have been you know who's fault, of course.

Yes, Stalin attempted to enter the Orthodoxy (Was it a failed attempt at infiltration? There have been 'rabbis' who have called for their fellow Talmudists to do just that...) but 'Stalin' (like Trotsky and countless others) had changed his name...

Stalin's real name was Djugashvilli. Trotsky's real name was Bronstein.

Was 'Stalin' really a 'Jew'? He could have been for all I know. I know he certainly was virtually surrounded with them:

Stalin’s Willing Executioners
- Jews As A Hostile Elite In The USSR


Even the 'Jews' themselves admit as much (to a degree) :

"We mustn't forget that some of greatest murderers of modern times were Jewish"

From: Stalin's Jews

†IC XC†
†NI KA†

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« Reply #57 on: November 26, 2010, 12:30:37 AM »

Seriously???

Sad
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« Reply #58 on: November 26, 2010, 12:38:21 AM »

Lord have mercy. I cannot believe some of the things being said here.
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« Reply #59 on: November 26, 2010, 10:20:20 AM »

Lyndon LaRouche?! Lyndon Larouche?!?! Really?!?!?! Hahahahahahahahahaha.
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« Reply #60 on: November 26, 2010, 11:22:57 AM »

Ad hominem much?

Has Your Neighbor Been Brainwashed About Lyndon Larouche?

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« Reply #61 on: November 26, 2010, 11:56:06 AM »

Hmm ... that would explain the otherwise inexplicable popularity of those sinister Jews Moe, Shemp and Curly Howard!
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« Reply #62 on: November 26, 2010, 05:41:28 PM »

I've come to the conclusion that this thread simply cannot be serious.  Cheesy
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« Reply #63 on: November 26, 2010, 11:58:37 PM »

Quote from: Iconodule
"If you really want to know the truth about who, or what, is controlling our world, you must watch this: Nonsense"

Why are you watching garbage like that? The announcer sounds like a (real) racist... Personally, I don't approve of the use of the word 'Nigger'.

Do you?

Here's a quote from this video, apparently by the same talented individual:

Gangster Computer-god Worldwide Containment Policy

Quote
"(...) You go to a nearby hospital (or camouflaged miniature hospital van-trucks)... You strip naked, lie on the operating table which slides into the sealed computer-god operating cabinet. Intravenous tubes are connected...

The slimy, vicious Jew doctor simply pushes the starting button based on your computer-god brain on the moon - which records progress on your systematic butchery. Your butchery is continued, exactly; systematically. (...)"

Those are things that I would never say!

Attempting to mock and ridicule me doesn't address anything at issue here.

Here... why don't you watch something worthwhile?

Norman Finkelstein: Israel's Zionist's Disgrace In Gaza

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« Reply #64 on: November 27, 2010, 12:01:43 AM »

I have no problem with Dr. Norman Finkelstein. He is not an anti-semite nor, to my knowledge, does he spin absurd conspiracy theories. You could learn a thing or two from him.
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« Reply #65 on: November 27, 2010, 03:58:15 AM »

I have no problem with Dr. Norman Finkelstein. He is not an anti-semite nor, to my knowledge, does he spin absurd conspiracy theories. You could learn a thing or two from him.

I  haven't spun anything (I don't exist in a vacuum)... nor am I an "anti-Semite".

Here are some folks you could perhaps learn a thing or three from:

'Jews' Exposing Zionist Grip On America - Moderate 'Jewish' Voices

George Calloway Speaks Against The Zionists - Gaza Massacre

Christians!!!!

Are these people "Anti-Semites"? Or "Self-Haters"? Or even "Conspiracy Theorists"? (Gasp!)

†IC XC†
†NI KA†
 
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« Reply #66 on: November 27, 2010, 05:23:53 AM »

I have no problem with Dr. Norman Finkelstein. He is not an anti-semite nor, to my knowledge, does he spin absurd conspiracy theories. You could learn a thing or two from him.

I  haven't spun anything (I don't exist in a vacuum)... nor am I an "anti-Semite".
But you sure are funny. laugh
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« Reply #67 on: November 27, 2010, 07:25:57 AM »

Quote

Was 'Stalin' really a 'Jew'? He could have been for all I know. I know he certainly was virtually surrounded with them:


Stalin/Jughashvili was baptized into the Georgian Orthodox church. He spent five years in an Orthodox seminary and was expelled for having missed his final exams. He was apparently unable to pay his school fees. Otherwise, we may have had to contend with Fr. Ioseb!

As for being "virtually surrounded by Jews" in the government of the USSR, the Politburo had a total of 22 members during the 1930s. One--ONE--was of Jewish origin. It was Lazar Moiseyevich Kaganovich. (Amazingly, he was never purged, and died in 1991 at the age of 98.) As I read the lists of Politburo members during the 1920s through the 1940s, I can only find two other members of Jewish origin. One, of course, was Trotsky. The vast majority of members were ethnic Russian or Ukrainian.

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« Reply #68 on: November 27, 2010, 11:17:40 AM »

I've learned enough about Eastern Orthodoxy to know that most EO's don't think this way.

Still, it's disturbing that those who do seem to feel comfortable posting about it here.  Sad
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« Reply #69 on: November 27, 2010, 11:19:34 AM »

I've learned enough about Eastern Orthodoxy to know that most EO's don't think this way.

Still, it's disturbing that those who do seem to feel comfortable posting about it here.  Sad

Yes. It is the ugly side of some Orthodox traditions--anti-Semitism and ultra far-right nationalism.
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« Reply #70 on: November 27, 2010, 12:33:59 PM »

To be fair, I have seen similar opinions expressed on some ultra-montane RC forums as well.

Still, one would hope the followers of the TRUE   FAITH would know better ...
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« Reply #71 on: November 27, 2010, 12:57:21 PM »

To be fair, I have seen similar opinions expressed on some ultra-montane RC forums as well.

Still, one would hope the followers of the TRUE   FAITH would know better ...

Yes. Ignorance knows no bounds...
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« Reply #72 on: November 27, 2010, 01:09:08 PM »


LaRouche is a nutcase who among other things ascribed the Oklahoma City bombing to the British government and accused Her Majesty of heading a drug-running ring. Ascribing any merit to his accusations is proof of a complete lack of any discrimination when it comes to choosing one's authorities.
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« Reply #73 on: November 27, 2010, 01:36:30 PM »


LaRouche is a nutcase who among other things ascribed the Oklahoma City bombing to the British government and accused Her Majesty of heading a drug-running ring. Ascribing any merit to his accusations is proof of a complete lack of any discrimination when it comes to choosing one's authorities.

I thought that had a James Bond kind of feel to it.

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« Reply #74 on: November 28, 2010, 02:37:38 AM »

As for being "virtually surrounded by Jews" in the government of the USSR, the Politburo had a total of 22 members during the 1930s. One--ONE--was of Jewish origin. It was Lazar Moiseyevich Kaganovich. (Amazingly, he was never purged, and died in 1991 at the age of 98.) As I read the lists of Politburo members during the 1920s through the 1940s, I can only find two other members of Jewish origin. One, of course, was Trotsky. The vast majority of members were ethnic Russian or Ukrainian.

Silly Hermogenes. Don't you know that the Politburo was only the public face, the mere puppet of the vast, secret Jewish cabal that ruled the whole Communist world?

 Roll Eyes
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« Reply #75 on: November 28, 2010, 08:23:39 AM »

As for being "virtually surrounded by Jews" in the government of the USSR, the Politburo had a total of 22 members during the 1930s. One--ONE--was of Jewish origin. It was Lazar Moiseyevich Kaganovich. (Amazingly, he was never purged, and died in 1991 at the age of 98.) As I read the lists of Politburo members during the 1920s through the 1940s, I can only find two other members of Jewish origin. One, of course, was Trotsky. The vast majority of members were ethnic Russian or Ukrainian.

Silly Hermogenes. Don't you know that the Politburo was only the public face, the mere puppet of the vast, secret Jewish cabal that ruled the whole Communist world?

 Roll Eyes
Silly, indeed. How could I forget about that vast Jewish conspiracy that controlled both communism and international banking (something springs to mind here about a house divided, but don't let's get distracted by logic or reason here); the media; our schools and universities; socialist humanism; the Democratic Party (same as previous); the United Nations; major league baseball; and the NFL? Thanks for the reminder. You can't relax your vigilance for a moment in this troubled world!
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« Reply #76 on: November 28, 2010, 02:10:25 PM »

Quote

Silly Hermogenes. Don't you know that the Politburo was only the public face, the mere puppet of the vast, secret Jewish cabal that ruled the whole Communist world?

 Roll Eyes

I forgot to add: The European Community; the World Council of Churches; NATO; the British royal family; OPEC; the mafia; the ACLU; the Roman Catholic church; the FBI; the World Bank; NASA; the Knights of Columbus; Betty White; and the Red Cross. I know some of them aren't card-carrying Jews, but that's all part of their nefarious plan. Those Zionist conspirators are everywhere.
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« Reply #77 on: November 28, 2010, 02:22:48 PM »

And the American Medical Association.
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« Reply #78 on: November 28, 2010, 02:25:29 PM »

Don't forget comic books...
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« Reply #79 on: November 28, 2010, 02:38:58 PM »

Don't forget comic books...

Yes, the conspiracy is so massive...inevitably, people are gonna get left off the lists. And these are only the current members. The historical list is quite vast, beginning with J. Edgar Hoover and the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. (Well, it actually begins with Abraham Lincoln.)
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« Reply #80 on: November 28, 2010, 11:45:06 PM »

To be fair, I have seen similar opinions expressed on some ultra-montane RC forums as well.

Still, one would hope the followers of the TRUE   FAITH would know better ...

I know what you mean. Its attitudes like this in Orthodoxy that make me very sad. Its just as horrifying as seeing priests lead neo-nazi demonstrations in Moscow and elsewhere in Eastern Europe. Its books such as the Protocols that fuel these hate organizations.
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« Reply #81 on: November 29, 2010, 09:13:51 AM »

To be fair, I have seen similar opinions expressed on some ultra-montane RC forums as well.

Still, one would hope the followers of the TRUE   FAITH would know better ...

I know what you mean. Its attitudes like this in Orthodoxy that make me very sad. Its just as horrifying as seeing priests lead neo-nazi demonstrations in Moscow and elsewhere in Eastern Europe. Its books such as the Protocols that fuel these hate organizations.

Yes. The Serbian church has paid most for this kind of thing, as some of its more nationalistic leaders have supported the Balkan wars (and, it appears, some of the war criminals). Very sad and disturbing. The same thing happened in Croatia during WW II.
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« Reply #82 on: December 13, 2010, 12:17:17 AM »

What is the Protocols of the Elders of Zion? Was it a hoax by the Tsarist government?

Yes, a vicious lie that is still being currently used against the Jewish people. I thought everyone knew it was a hoax by now?
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« Reply #83 on: December 14, 2010, 02:49:39 AM »

"Communist cannot be anything but outspoken enemies of anti-Semitism. We fight anti-Semites by the strongest methods in the Soviet Union.

Active anti-Semites are punished by death under law."

- Joseph 'Stalin', Quote from interview w/ Jewish Telegraph Agency (1931)

~~~ ~~~ ~~~

"Some call it Communism... I call it Judaism."

- Rabbi Stephen Wise


I have no problem with Dr. Norman Finkelstein. He is not an anti-semite nor, to my knowledge, does he spin absurd conspiracy theories. You could learn a thing or two from him.

I  haven't spun anything (I don't exist in a vacuum)... nor am I an "anti-Semite".
But you sure are funny. laugh

Glad I could amuse you. What's so funny?

Communism is not funny.




Don't forget comic books...

Yes, the conspiracy is so massive...inevitably, people are gonna get left off the lists. And these are only the current members. The historical list is quite vast, beginning with J. Edgar Hoover and the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. (Well, it actually begins with Abraham Lincoln.)

Look into Lincoln, his Greenbacks and the bankers. Then investigate who those bankers actually were.

As for the KKK... Two questions:

The KKK were supposed to have been predominantly White and (nominally at least) Christian, right? Why would Christians want to burn a Cross?!?

And just why did they wear those hoods anyway?

"We came across a horsehide-covered trunk which looked promising.

Opening it, we found father's Confederate uniform. Digging deeper in the trunk, we pulled out a white hood and a long robe with a crimson Cross on its breast - the regalia of a knight of the Klu Klux Klan (...)

To my brother and me, the thought that father was a member of that band exalted him in our youthful eyes."
- Bernard M. Baruch, 'Baruch: My Own Story', pg. 32


See: Bernard Baruch

Here's some more on Communism and its 'Jewish' predominance:

"Perpetrators of the holocaust against Christian Russia transform themselves into "survivors" of "the Holocaust"

Judaic Professor Arno Mayer of Princeton in his important book, Why Did the Heavens Not Darken? states that the German invasion of Russia was carried out with the intention to eradicate Bolshevik (Soviet Communist) ideology. The Germans were hardly the only ones in the West to believe that, "Soviet Russia is a dictatorship of Jewry."

On Feb. 8, 1920 a young British writer made a similar observation in the Illustrated Sunday Herald:

"There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution by these international and for the most part atheistical Jews."

The writer was Winston Churchill. Though he would later sell his soul for considerably more than thirty pieces of silver, his analysis of the authentic nature of Soviet communism remains trenchant.

Churchill expressed the crucial insight that the crimes perpetrated by Jewish communists against Germans and Russians instilled in those people a desire for retribution:

"In the Soviet institutions the predominance of Jews is even more astonishing. And the prominent, if not indeed, the principal, part in the system of terrorism applied by the Extraordinary Commissions for Combating Counter-Revolution has been taken by Jews, and in some notable cases by Jewesses.

"The same evil prominence was obtained by Jews in the brief period of terror during which Bela Kun ruled in Hungary. The same phenomenon has been presented in Germany (especially in Bavaria), so far as this madness has been allowed to prey upon the temporary prostration of the German people.

"...The fact that in many cases Jewish interests and Jewish places of worship are excepted by the Bolsheviks from their universal hostility has tended more and more to associate the Jewish race in Russia with villainies which are now being perpetrated...Needless to say, the most intense passions of revenge have been excited in the breasts of the Russian people." (End quote from Churchill).

"...a letter sent to the Vatican by Pius XII in 1919, when he was Bishop Eugenio Pacelli and papal nuncio in Munich...reports on his deputy's unpleasant encounter with Bolshevik revolutionaries who were then terrorizing Catholic priests and the German bourgeoisie. The letter describes the leader, Max Lieven as a '... Russian and a Jew.' The letter also describes Mr. Lieven's companions, '...Jews like the rest of them.'...Bishop Pacelli's description of Jewish Communists...was hardly uncommon 80 years ago." (N.Y. Times, Nov. 3, 1999).

Chaim Bermant, writing in the Jewish Chronicle (Aug. 30, 1991), says: "It was Communism which toppled the hated Czars, Communism which removed Jewish disabilities and proscribed anti-Semitism and Communism which, in its early days at least, opened the doors to Jewish advancement." (...)"


Continued at this page: Judaic Communism - The Documentary Record

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« Reply #84 on: December 14, 2010, 08:52:33 AM »

"Communist cannot be anything but outspoken enemies of anti-Semitism. We fight anti-Semites by the strongest methods in the Soviet Union.

Active anti-Semites are punished by death under law."

- Joseph 'Stalin', Quote from interview w/ Jewish Telegraph Agency (1931)

~~~ ~~~ ~~~

"Some call it Communism... I call it Judaism."

- Rabbi Stephen Wise


I have no problem with Dr. Norman Finkelstein. He is not an anti-semite nor, to my knowledge, does he spin absurd conspiracy theories. You could learn a thing or two from him.

I  haven't spun anything (I don't exist in a vacuum)... nor am I an "anti-Semite".
But you sure are funny. laugh

Glad I could amuse you. What's so funny?

Communism is not funny.




Don't forget comic books...

Yes, the conspiracy is so massive...inevitably, people are gonna get left off the lists. And these are only the current members. The historical list is quite vast, beginning with J. Edgar Hoover and the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. (Well, it actually begins with Abraham Lincoln.)

Look into Lincoln, his Greenbacks and the bankers. Then investigate who those bankers actually were.

As for the KKK... Two questions:

The KKK were supposed to have been predominantly White and (nominally at least) Christian, right? Why would Christians want to burn a Cross?!?

And just why did they wear those hoods anyway?

"We came across a horsehide-covered trunk which looked promising.

Opening it, we found father's Confederate uniform. Digging deeper in the trunk, we pulled out a white hood and a long robe with a crimson Cross on its breast - the regalia of a knight of the Klu Klux Klan (...)

To my brother and me, the thought that father was a member of that band exalted him in our youthful eyes."
- Bernard M. Baruch, 'Baruch: My Own Story', pg. 32


See: Bernard Baruch

Here's some more on Communism and its 'Jewish' predominance:

"Perpetrators of the holocaust against Christian Russia transform themselves into "survivors" of "the Holocaust"

Judaic Professor Arno Mayer of Princeton in his important book, Why Did the Heavens Not Darken? states that the German invasion of Russia was carried out with the intention to eradicate Bolshevik (Soviet Communist) ideology. The Germans were hardly the only ones in the West to believe that, "Soviet Russia is a dictatorship of Jewry."

On Feb. 8, 1920 a young British writer made a similar observation in the Illustrated Sunday Herald:

"There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution by these international and for the most part atheistical Jews."

The writer was Winston Churchill. Though he would later sell his soul for considerably more than thirty pieces of silver, his analysis of the authentic nature of Soviet communism remains trenchant.

Churchill expressed the crucial insight that the crimes perpetrated by Jewish communists against Germans and Russians instilled in those people a desire for retribution:

"In the Soviet institutions the predominance of Jews is even more astonishing. And the prominent, if not indeed, the principal, part in the system of terrorism applied by the Extraordinary Commissions for Combating Counter-Revolution has been taken by Jews, and in some notable cases by Jewesses.

"The same evil prominence was obtained by Jews in the brief period of terror during which Bela Kun ruled in Hungary. The same phenomenon has been presented in Germany (especially in Bavaria), so far as this madness has been allowed to prey upon the temporary prostration of the German people.

"...The fact that in many cases Jewish interests and Jewish places of worship are excepted by the Bolsheviks from their universal hostility has tended more and more to associate the Jewish race in Russia with villainies which are now being perpetrated...Needless to say, the most intense passions of revenge have been excited in the breasts of the Russian people." (End quote from Churchill).

"...a letter sent to the Vatican by Pius XII in 1919, when he was Bishop Eugenio Pacelli and papal nuncio in Munich...reports on his deputy's unpleasant encounter with Bolshevik revolutionaries who were then terrorizing Catholic priests and the German bourgeoisie. The letter describes the leader, Max Lieven as a '... Russian and a Jew.' The letter also describes Mr. Lieven's companions, '...Jews like the rest of them.'...Bishop Pacelli's description of Jewish Communists...was hardly uncommon 80 years ago." (N.Y. Times, Nov. 3, 1999).

Chaim Bermant, writing in the Jewish Chronicle (Aug. 30, 1991), says: "It was Communism which toppled the hated Czars, Communism which removed Jewish disabilities and proscribed anti-Semitism and Communism which, in its early days at least, opened the doors to Jewish advancement." (...)"


Continued at this page: Judaic Communism - The Documentary Record

†IC XC†
†NI KA†


Are you offering these things as facts?

Between Stalin's election as First Secretary of the communist party and his death in 1953, the Politburo had nearly 100 members  Three--THREE--were Jewish. From 1938 on, there was only one. Some Jewish plot...
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« Reply #85 on: December 14, 2010, 02:18:28 PM »

The KKK were supposed to have been predominantly White and (nominally at least) Christian, right? Why would Christians want to burn a Cross?!?

And just why did they wear those hoods anyway?

"We came across a horsehide-covered trunk which looked promising.

Opening it, we found father's Confederate uniform. Digging deeper in the trunk, we pulled out a white hood and a long robe with a crimson Cross on its breast - the regalia of a knight of the Klu Klux Klan (...)

To my brother and me, the thought that father was a member of that band exalted him in our youthful eyes."
- Bernard M. Baruch, 'Baruch: My Own Story', pg. 32

I have to wonder whether you actually read the book. Not that I have it in my hand either, but all references to this passage indicate that what Baruch meant was that antisemitism was not a problem for him in his youth, and that by inference his father's Judaism was exceptional among KKK members.
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« Reply #86 on: December 14, 2010, 02:41:18 PM »

Note, also, that in its original incarnation (of which Dr. Simon Baruch was a member), the Klan was primarily an anti-black and anti-Federal organization.  The anti-Jewish element did not arise until its second incarnation in the early 20th century.  There were probably a number of prominent Southern Jews associated with the Klan 1860s and '70s
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« Reply #87 on: December 14, 2010, 02:57:19 PM »


How is it that a simple man like Nilus accurately predicted that the International 'Jews' would take over Holy Russia?


How is it that the International Jews took over Holy China? 

Are you serious?

Why - Opium of course!

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Um, that was the British? "EXACTLY- THE BRITISH ARE ALL JOOOZ!"

Um. didn't the 'saintly' papa joe stalin get bounced out of Seminary in Georgia before becoming a mass murderer of the greatest order? Must have been you know who's fault, of course.

The British were behind that, too?! That just figures!
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« Reply #88 on: December 14, 2010, 03:27:41 PM »

"Communist cannot be anything but outspoken enemies of anti-Semitism. We fight anti-Semites by the strongest methods in the Soviet Union.

Active anti-Semites are punished by death under law."

- Joseph 'Stalin', Quote from interview w/ Jewish Telegraph Agency (1931)

That's hilarious, what was this then?



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalinism_and_antisemitism

Despite the 'egalitarian' 'anti-racist' babble espoused by Stalin and his ilk, they still murdered Jews and were no less vicious or murderous than the Nazis, his nice sounding speeches do not match up to the reality of what actually happened to Russian Jews. Also, define "Jewish telegraph agency." Was ist das? Hmm?

Quote
"Some call it Communism... I call it Judaism." - Rabbi Stephen Wise

This statement is moronic, regardless of who said it, however he was a REFORM Rabbi and he's no less ignorant that those Haredi Rabbanim who attended the holocaust denial conferance held by Mr. Ahamdinejad. Just because a Jew says X doesn't mean what he is saying reflects the opinions of all Jews or the correct teachings of Judaism in general. This is as stupid as me saying that because you are Orthodox or Slavic that means all Orthodox Christians are just as ignorant as yourself. This link between Judaism/Jews and Communism is purely fictional and moronic.  Not to mention I would question the authenticity of this quote considering you racists tend to make things up, case and point, the Protocols. The fact of the matter is, all races were involved in the Communist movement, Jews, Arabs, Europeans, Africans, every race participated in it, it's not a global Jewish conspiracy and I am highly offended by your posts. Also, posting links to "revisitionist histories," doesn't give the appearence of legitimacy to your argument, where did you get all this stuff from? The Stormfront forum? Are you also a fan of Henry Ford's The International Jew: The World's Foremost Problem? Do you also consider that to be a legitimate book about the "Jewish problem"? I don't understand people like you, what do you have against Jews anyways? Did we steal one of your lady friends at some point?
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« Reply #89 on: December 15, 2010, 07:03:24 PM »

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« Reply #90 on: December 15, 2010, 08:26:49 PM »

Note, also, that in its original incarnation (of which Dr. Simon Baruch was a member), the Klan was primarily an anti-black and anti-Federal organization.  The anti-Jewish element did not arise until its second incarnation in the early 20th century.  There were probably a number of prominent Southern Jews associated with the Klan 1860s and '70s

I am skeptical about it being ONLY anti-black. There was a huge anti-Catholic fervor at that time inthe 19th century, with a group called the know nothings. Mr. Baruch might have been in an area where that didn't matter, and I think that there were even some nonChristian Jews who had slaves. And in the book To Kill a Mockingbird, a southern child cannot understand Hitler's racism because it includes white people.

So in some places, protestantism might not have been a criteria for Klan membership. But I am sure that in most places it was, with significantly less tolerance for followers of Judaism.

I am not feeding trolls here, I hope on this one.
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« Reply #91 on: December 16, 2010, 04:20:11 AM »

Quote from: Ebenezer
"Despite the 'egalitarian' 'anti-racist' babble espoused by Stalin and his ilk, they still murdered Jews and were no less vicious or murderous than the Nazis, his nice sounding speeches do not match up to the reality of what actually happened to Russian Jews. Also, define "Jewish telegraph agency." Was ist das? Hmm?"

I'm sure 'Stalin' killed anyone who got in his way... That's Communism (Talmudism condensed) for you.

"Nice sounding speeches"? I guess if one thinks that the simple accusation of so-called 'anti-Semitism' (a ridiculous misnomer in its current popular usage) deserves the death penalty.

As for what happened to the Russian 'Jews'... It was the Russian Orthodox Christians who suffered the most - not the so-called 'Jews'! 60 million plus were starved and murdered. Those Christians suffered and died under a system which was conceived, funded and implemented by 'Jews'. Period.

The Jewish Telegraph Agency was... the Jewish Telegraph Agency. What more can I say?

Here's another one for you:

The Jewish Telegraph Agency of May 14, 1997, said that the Jews had, "...played key roles in ushering Communist rule into Hungary. In fact, during the brutal oppression of the early 1950s, the regime's top five leaders were Jews.

I cannot help if you are offended by the truth - because you are a 'Jew' yourself... That's your issue... Facts are facts.

Who should we believe - you (an admitted 'Jew') and your useful ilk here... or the admittals of the Encyclopaedia Judaica?

Here are a couple of quotes from them and a link to more (as well as more quotes from Winston Churchill and others on the subject)...

"The Communist Movement and ideology played an important part In Jewish life, particularly in the  1920s, 1930s and during and after World War II."

"Communist trends became widespread in virtually all Jewish communities. In some countries, Jews became the leading element in the legal and illegal Communist Parties.."

"Individual Jews played an important role in the early stages of Bolshevism and the Soviet Regime"


The Encyclopedia Judaica on page 793 then goes on to reveal that the Communist International actually instructed Jews to change their names so as "not to confirm right-wing propaganda that presented Communism as an alien, Jewish conspiracy."

'Jews and Communism - The Suppressed Link'

And the blacks? 'Who Brought The Slaves To America?

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« Reply #92 on: December 30, 2010, 04:09:21 AM »

I've no idea where the truth lies on the veracity of the Protocols, though it seems the weight of evidence is against them as being authentic. That said, I'm not sure being a fabrication makes them a hoax, per se…maybe, but not necessarily. I don't get the feeling they were written as a prank, there was definite purpose to them. And though common opinion (even among those who have never read them) hold the Protocol's content scandalous and deliberately defamatory in the extreme I am not sure that is a necessary conclusion as well.

For the record, I've never read them, and know them only by reputation. Yet one statement made in this thread made me curious. I quote "Nilus himself knew that the Protocols were fake but he wanted to make use of them in his anti-Jewish campaign.....  Nilus:  "Let us admit that the Protocols are spurious, but can't God use them to unmask the iniquity that is being prepared?"

Here we have a man reputed within Orthodoxy to be holy, a man blessed by others in Orthodoxy we know absolutely to be holy, and yet this man is prepared to publish something he apparently admits as being spurious in order to combat some other unnamed masked iniquity. That suggests that he saw instructive value in the Protocols even if they were not historical.  Might they not then be likened, at least in form, and perhaps in intent to an allegorical work…or a philosophical work/treatise put into the mouths of others who had some representative/symbolic function with respect to the whole work?  What I want to know is what is this masked iniquity Nilus felt to be such a present danger and what was it in the Protocols that he thought accurately unmasked and identified that danger even if in fictitious form?

Now it may well be the Protocols are an unmitigated evil as they are so often reputed to be, but that strikes me as too simplistic, too easily dismissive given the caliber and character of some men who gave this work credence on some level.  

Moving on though, with respect to the question the Jews and antisemitism and Holy Orthodoxy I've found this article by a Russian Jewish convert to Orthodoxy to be intriguing and informative.

HERE http://www.ocf.org/OrthodoxPage/reading/jewish_1.html
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« Reply #93 on: December 30, 2010, 08:33:01 AM »

I've no idea where the truth lies on the veracity of the Protocols, though it seems the weight of evidence is against them as being authentic. That said, I'm not sure being a fabrication makes them a hoax, per se…maybe, but not necessarily. I don't get the feeling they were written as a prank, there was definite purpose to them. And though common opinion (even among those who have never read them) hold the Protocol's content scandalous and deliberately defamatory in the extreme I am not sure that is a necessary conclusion as well.

For the record, I've never read them, and know them only by reputation. Yet one statement made in this thread made me curious. I quote "Nilus himself knew that the Protocols were fake but he wanted to make use of them in his anti-Jewish campaign.....  Nilus:  "Let us admit that the Protocols are spurious, but can't God use them to unmask the iniquity that is being prepared?"

Here we have a man reputed within Orthodoxy to be holy, a man blessed by others in Orthodoxy we know absolutely to be holy, and yet this man is prepared to publish something he apparently admits as being spurious in order to combat some other unnamed masked iniquity. That suggests that he saw instructive value in the Protocols even if they were not historical.  Might they not then be likened, at least in form, and perhaps in intent to an allegorical work…or a philosophical work/treatise put into the mouths of others who had some representative/symbolic function with respect to the whole work?  What I want to know is what is this masked iniquity Nilus felt to be such a present danger and what was it in the Protocols that he thought accurately unmasked and identified that danger even if in fictitious form?

Now it may well be the Protocols are an unmitigated evil as they are so often reputed to be, but that strikes me as too simplistic, too easily dismissive given the caliber and character of some men who gave this work credence on some level.  

Moving on though, with respect to the question the Jews and antisemitism and Holy Orthodoxy I've found this article by a Russian Jewish convert to Orthodoxy to be intriguing and informative.

HERE http://www.ocf.org/OrthodoxPage/reading/jewish_1.html

It seems incredible any reasonable person would even consider these sop-called protocols anything but what they are. And great people have been anti-Semites for a thousand years, so it would not be so very surprising if Nilus turned out to be a man of his time in this respect. It was only in the last 40 years that the Latin church struck out the line "perfidious Jews" from it's Holy Friday liturgy--fully 20 years after the Shoah.

As to anti-Semitism in Russia and the Russian church, vs. Europe as a whole, I think one also has to consider how the anti-Semitism plays out. It seems, at least on anecdotal evidence, to be more likely to result in violence in Russia than in, say, the UK.
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« Reply #94 on: December 30, 2010, 09:08:36 AM »

Here we have a man reputed within Orthodoxy to be holy, a man blessed by others in Orthodoxy we know absolutely to be holy, and yet this man is prepared to publish something he apparently admits as being spurious in order to combat some other unnamed masked iniquity.

Glorifying a person as a saint does not endorse every single thing they taught.
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« Reply #95 on: December 30, 2010, 09:30:41 AM »

Quote from: Ebenezer
"Despite the 'egalitarian' 'anti-racist' babble espoused by Stalin and his ilk, they still murdered Jews and were no less vicious or murderous than the Nazis, his nice sounding speeches do not match up to the reality of what actually happened to Russian Jews. Also, define "Jewish telegraph agency." Was ist das? Hmm?"

I'm sure 'Stalin' killed anyone who got in his way... That's Communism (Talmudism condensed) for you.

"Nice sounding speeches"? I guess if one thinks that the simple accusation of so-called 'anti-Semitism' (a ridiculous misnomer in its current popular usage) deserves the death penalty.

As for what happened to the Russian 'Jews'... It was the Russian Orthodox Christians who suffered the most - not the so-called 'Jews'! 60 million plus were starved and murdered. Those Christians suffered and died under a system which was conceived, funded and implemented by 'Jews'. Period.

The Jewish Telegraph Agency was... the Jewish Telegraph Agency. What more can I say?

Here's another one for you:

The Jewish Telegraph Agency of May 14, 1997, said that the Jews had, "...played key roles in ushering Communist rule into Hungary. In fact, during the brutal oppression of the early 1950s, the regime's top five leaders were Jews.

I cannot help if you are offended by the truth - because you are a 'Jew' yourself... That's your issue... Facts are facts.

Who should we believe - you (an admitted 'Jew') and your useful ilk here... or the admittals of the Encyclopaedia Judaica?

Here are a couple of quotes from them and a link to more (as well as more quotes from Winston Churchill and others on the subject)...

"The Communist Movement and ideology played an important part In Jewish life, particularly in the  1920s, 1930s and during and after World War II."

"Communist trends became widespread in virtually all Jewish communities. In some countries, Jews became the leading element in the legal and illegal Communist Parties.."

"Individual Jews played an important role in the early stages of Bolshevism and the Soviet Regime"


The Encyclopedia Judaica on page 793 then goes on to reveal that the Communist International actually instructed Jews to change their names so as "not to confirm right-wing propaganda that presented Communism as an alien, Jewish conspiracy."

'Jews and Communism - The Suppressed Link'

And the blacks? 'Who Brought The Slaves To America?

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« Reply #96 on: December 30, 2010, 09:45:25 AM »

Here we have a man reputed within Orthodoxy to be holy, a man blessed by others in Orthodoxy we know absolutely to be holy, and yet this man is prepared to publish something he apparently admits as being spurious in order to combat some other unnamed masked iniquity.

Glorifying a person as a saint does not endorse every single thing they taught.

Exactly.
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« Reply #97 on: December 30, 2010, 01:39:58 PM »

No it does not. But with respect to opinions of saints which may be off the mark, I would rather tread cautiously. We live in an age where the sensibilities of those in times passed are very easily judged and found wanting by the standards of our own times without the slightest concern that it is we who may be wrong.

Since I would rather not assume that such a person was intentionally dishonest, or bore malice against his fellow man (esp. if they are a saint or in that neighborhood), then I would rather set the strong emotions surrounding such an issue aside as it exists in our time so as to try and better understand why such a one thought as he thought.
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« Reply #98 on: December 30, 2010, 04:28:04 PM »

No it does not. But with respect to opinions of saints which may be off the mark, I would rather tread cautiously. We live in an age where the sensibilities of those in times passed are very easily judged and found wanting by the standards of our own times without the slightest concern that it is we who may be wrong.

Since I would rather not assume that such a person was intentionally dishonest, or bore malice against his fellow man (esp. if they are a saint or in that neighborhood), then I would rather set the strong emotions surrounding such an issue aside as it exists in our time so as to try and better understand why such a one thought as he thought.

A saint may be closer to God than the rest of us, but s/he is still a fallen person. Why be surprised? The main difference with the anti-Semitism of Nilus' time was that no one would have thought there was anything wrong with it. It was obvious to them that Jews were bad, if for no other reason than that they weren't Christians. I can't see where defending (or exploring) those attitudes gets you anywhere.
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« Reply #99 on: December 30, 2010, 04:34:28 PM »

Quote from: Ebenezer
"Despite the 'egalitarian' 'anti-racist' babble espoused by Stalin and his ilk, they still murdered Jews and were no less vicious or murderous than the Nazis, his nice sounding speeches do not match up to the reality of what actually happened to Russian Jews. Also, define "Jewish telegraph agency." Was ist das? Hmm?"

I'm sure 'Stalin' killed anyone who got in his way... That's Communism (Talmudism condensed) for you.

"Nice sounding speeches"? I guess if one thinks that the simple accusation of so-called 'anti-Semitism' (a ridiculous misnomer in its current popular usage) deserves the death penalty.

As for what happened to the Russian 'Jews'... It was the Russian Orthodox Christians who suffered the most - not the so-called 'Jews'! 60 million plus were starved and murdered. Those Christians suffered and died under a system which was conceived, funded and implemented by 'Jews'. Period.

The Jewish Telegraph Agency was... the Jewish Telegraph Agency. What more can I say?

Here's another one for you:

The Jewish Telegraph Agency of May 14, 1997, said that the Jews had, "...played key roles in ushering Communist rule into Hungary. In fact, during the brutal oppression of the early 1950s, the regime's top five leaders were Jews.

I cannot help if you are offended by the truth - because you are a 'Jew' yourself... That's your issue... Facts are facts.

Who should we believe - you (an admitted 'Jew') and your useful ilk here... or the admittals of the Encyclopaedia Judaica?

Here are a couple of quotes from them and a link to more (as well as more quotes from Winston Churchill and others on the subject)...

"The Communist Movement and ideology played an important part In Jewish life, particularly in the  1920s, 1930s and during and after World War II."

"Communist trends became widespread in virtually all Jewish communities. In some countries, Jews became the leading element in the legal and illegal Communist Parties.."

"Individual Jews played an important role in the early stages of Bolshevism and the Soviet Regime"


The Encyclopedia Judaica on page 793 then goes on to reveal that the Communist International actually instructed Jews to change their names so as "not to confirm right-wing propaganda that presented Communism as an alien, Jewish conspiracy."

'Jews and Communism - The Suppressed Link'

And the blacks? 'Who Brought The Slaves To America?

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None of Hungary's top leaders were Jews, either before or after the crack-down in 1956. Hegedus was Protestant, and both Nagy and Kadar were Catholic, although non-observant.

Almost the entire Jewish population of the country perished in the Shoah.
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« Reply #100 on: December 30, 2010, 05:02:10 PM »

I pray for the day when this anti-semitic libel is a distant memory.
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« Reply #101 on: December 31, 2010, 05:03:44 PM »

Quote from: Saint Iaint link=topic=17836.msg507756#msg507756 date=1292487611[url=http://www.white-history.com/hwr61.htm
'Jews and Communism - The Suppressed Link'[/url]

Notice where this little screed comes from- it's a chapter out of March of the Titans: A History of the White Race.

That should give everyone a good idea of where "SaintIaint" is coming from.
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« Reply #102 on: January 01, 2011, 08:52:40 PM »

Quote from: Saint Iaint link=topic=17836.msg507756#msg507756 date=1292487611[url=http://www.white-history.com/hwr61.htm
'Jews and Communism - The Suppressed Link'[/url]

Notice where this little screed comes from- it's a chapter out of March of the Titans: A History of the White Race.

That should give everyone a good idea of where "SaintIaint" is coming from.

Yes, yes... attack the messenger, ignore the message or the actual primary sources for that message.

Classic ad hominem... Epic fail.

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« Reply #103 on: January 01, 2011, 09:27:57 PM »

A saint Iaint ain't. Wink
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« Reply #104 on: January 01, 2011, 10:46:33 PM »

Quote from: Saint Iaint link=topic=17836.msg507756#msg507756 date=1292487611[url=http://www.white-history.com/hwr61.htm
'Jews and Communism - The Suppressed Link'[/url]

Notice where this little screed comes from- it's a chapter out of March of the Titans: A History of the White Race.

That should give everyone a good idea of where "SaintIaint" is coming from.

Yes, yes... attack the messenger

Oh, you mean like digging into Marx's family history to link communism with tHa JOoOOhZ?

 
Quote
ignore the message or the actual primary sources for that message.

Since the article doesn't cite any primary sources, but just consists of assertions and unsubstantiated "facts," it would be hard to do otherwise.

Yeah, maybe it's unfair to point out the fact that you cite white supremacist propaganda for your arguments, but not more unfair than blaming Da JoOoOs for communism (and pretty much everything else wrong with the world.) And let's face it, if your assertions had as much truth to them as you believe, you wouldn't need to be scraping the bottom of the barrel, digging garbage up like this "history of the white race."

And while I can't prove you're a closet Nazi, I don't think any sane person reading this thread will doubt it.
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« Reply #105 on: January 02, 2011, 03:30:40 AM »

Quote from: Iconodule
'Oh, you mean like digging into Marx's family history to link communism with tHa JOoOOhZ"

No... No. There is plenty in Marx's messages themselves to address. I never said anything like, "Marx is a 'Jew' - therefore Communism is bad."

However the issue of the 'Jewish' predominance in early Communism is a separate one... and since Marx essentially created Communism... the fact that he too was 'Jewish' is notable.

Quote
"Since the article doesn't cite any primary sources, but just consists of assertions and unsubstantiated "facts," it would be hard to do otherwise."

I guess you were just hoping I wouldn't reply... or that no one would actually look at the links I offer as long as you can convince them that I am just a "Nazi"?

You either can't read or you're a liar.

Here are quotes, citing sources from the page you have a problem with:

"Above left and right: Two extracts from the Encyclopedia Britannica, Vol. 18, page 717, 1984, Chicago, describing Leon Trotsky's critical role in the creation of the Communist state of the Soviet Union, describing him as the "outstanding leader" of the Russian Communist Revolution. The same article then goes on, above left, to reveal that Trotsky was born Lev Davidovich Bronstein, of a Jewish family from the Ukraine.

(...) Above left: Karl Marx, whose real family name was Mordechai, originator of the Communist ideology. Above right: An extract from the Encyclopedia Britannica, Vol. 11, page 459, 1984, Chicago, revealing Karl Marx's Jewish ancestry.

(...) Part Two: The Encyclopedia Judaica Confirms the Jewish Origin of Communism

The Encyclopedia Judaica, published in Jerusalem, Israel, by Jews, is available at most large public libraries and is in English. This reference book for all things Jewish is quite open about the Jewish role in Communism, particularly early Communism, and contains a large number of admissions in this regard.

(...) Above: The front cover of Volume 5 of the 1971 edition of the Encyclopedia Judaica, published in Jerusalem, Israel, from where all of the extracts below have been taken.

Under the entry for "Communism": in Volume 5, page 792, the following appears:

"The Communist Movement and ideology played an important part In Jewish life, particularly in the  1920s, 1930s and during and after World War II." (below)

(...) On page 793, the same Encyclopedia Judaica then goes on to say that "Communist trends became widespread in virtually all Jewish communities. In some countries, Jews became the leading element in the legal and illegal Communist Parties.."

(...) The Encyclopedia Judaica on page 793 then goes on to reveal that the Communist International actually instructed Jews to change their names so as "not confirm right-wing propaganda that presented Communism as an alien, Jewish conspiracy." (above).

JEWISH ROLE IN THE RUSSIAN COMMUNIST REVOLUTION

The Encyclopedia Judaica then goes on to describe the overwhelming role Jews played in creating the Soviet Union. On page 792 it says : "Individual Jews played an important role in the early stages of Bolshevism and the Soviet Regime" (below).

(...) On page 794 of the Encyclopedia Judaica, this Jewish reference book then goes to list the Jews prominent in the upper command of the Russian Communist party: these included Maxim Litvinov, (Later foreign minister of Soviet Russia); Grigori Zinoviev, Lwev Kamenev, Jacob Sverdlov, Lazar Kaganovich, and Karl Radek, amongst many others. (Below: page 794 of the Encyclopedia Judaica).

(...) The organizer of the Revolution was Trotsky, who prepared a special  committee to plan and prepare the coup which brought the Communists to power. according tot he  Encyclopedia Judaica, this  committee, called the Military Revolutionary Committee,, had five members - three of whom were Jews. (below)

(...) The Politburo - the supreme governing body of Russia immediately after the Communist Revolution - had four Jews amongst its seven members, according to page 797 of the Jewish Encyclopedia Judaica (below).

(...) While many have alleged that Lenin was also Jewish, or at least of part Jewish origin, there is little concrete evidence of this. However, Lenin was ardently pro-Jewish, branding anti-Semitism (correctly) as "counter revolutionary" (Encyclopedia Judaica, page 798). A statement against anti-Semitism was made by Lenin in March 1919 and was "one of the rare occasions when his voice was put on a phonograph record to be used in a mass campaign against the counterrevolutionary incitement against the Jews," according to the Encyclopedia Judaica, page 798.  One of the first laws passed by the new Soviet Communist government was to outlaw anti-Semitism (Encyclopedia Judaica, page 798, extract above).

(...) Part Three: Winston Churchill on the Jewish Role in Communism

The preponderance of Jews in the inner sanctum of the Communist revolution in Russia was in fact well known at the time that the revolution took place: it is only in the post Second World War II era that this fact has been suppressed. A good example of the contemporary awareness of the Jewish nature of early Russian Communism can be found in the writing of the young  Winston Churchill, later to become prime minister of Great Britain, who, in 1920, was also working as journalist.

In 1920, Churchill wrote a full page article for the Illustrated Sunday Herald on 8 February 1920 detailing the Jewish involvement in the revolution. Churchill discusses in this article the split between Jews: some are Communists, he wrote, while others are Jewish nationalists. Churchill favored the Jewish nationalists, (and of course they indeed fall foul of the Jewish Communists, eventually becoming bitter enemies) and he appealed to what he called "loyal Jews" to ensure that the Communist Jews did not succeed. Churchill went even further and blamed the Jews for "every subversive movement during the Nineteenth Century", writing :

"This movement amongst the Jews (the Russian Revolution) is not new. From the days of Spartacus Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kuhn (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany) and Emma Goldman (United States), this world wide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilization and the reconstruction of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. It played, as a modern writer, Mrs. Nesta Webster, has so ably shown, a definitely recognizable part in the tragedy of the French Revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the Nineteenth Century; and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities has gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire. There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution by these international and for the most part atheistic Jews. Moreover, the principal inspiration and driving power comes from Jewish leaders." (ibid)

Churchill also pointedly accused Leon Trotsky (Bronstein) of wanting to establish a "world wide Communistic state under Jewish domination" in this article.

(...) Winston Churchill, later prime minister of Britain, pointed out the large Jewish involvement in the Communist revolution in an article published in the Illustrated Sunday Herald, 8 February 1920. See in particular under the heading "Terrorist Jews", enlarged below. For the full article, click here ( NB: large file)

(...) Churchill was not the only journalist to note the Jewish role in the Russian Revolution: Robert Wilton, the chief correspondent for the London Times, who was stationed in Russia at the time, wrote in his book The Last Days of the Romanovs (Hornton Butterworth, London, 1920, pages 147, 22-28, 81,118, 199, 127, 139-148) that "90 per cent" of the new Soviet government was composed of Jews. The correspondent for the London Morning Post, Victor Marsden, went further and actually compiled a list of names of the top 545 Bolshevik officials: of these, Marsden said, 454 were Jews and only 23 Non-Jewish Russians. (All These Things, A.N. Field, Appendix B pages 274-276).

(...) Part Four: The US Army's Telegrams on the Jewish role in Communism

The American Army Intelligence Service had its agents in  Russia at the time of the Communist Revolution, and the Jewish nature of that revolution is accurately reflected in those reports.

An American Senate subcommittee investigation into the Russian Revolution heard evidence, put on congressional record, that "(I)n December 1919, under the presidency of a man named Apfelbaum (Zinovieff) . . . out of the 388 members of the Bolshevik central government, only 16 happened to be real Russians, and all the rest (with the exception of a Negro from the U.S.) were Jews" (U.S. Senate Document 62, 1919).

Below: Both these telegrams are from official US National Archives: the upper one, State Department document 861.00/1757 was sent on 2 May 1918, from Moscow by US Consul General Summers. The lower one, State Department document 861.00/2205, was sent from Vladivostok on 5 July 1918, by US Consul Caldwell. Both describe the domination of the Bolshevik Communists by Jews, using the words "Fifty per cent of Soviet Government in each town consists of Jews of the worst type..."

Copies of documents from the US National Archives are freely available to anyone from the Washington DC, USA, office.

(...) AMERICAN COMMUNIST PARTY ALSO JEWISH

Jews were also behind the American Communist Party, which although politically unsuccessful, was very successful in its espionage and infiltration activities, eventually reaching right into the Civil Rights Movement and that group's leader, Martin Luther King.

According to the Encyclopedia Judaica, published in Jerusalem, Israel (1971), page 804 (extract below)  "the list of Jews who played a prominent role in the leadership and factional infighting of the American Communist Party is a long one . . .Many American Jewish authors and intellectuals, some of whom later recanted, were active in editing Communist publications and spreading party propaganda  . . among them Micheal Gold, Howard Fast and Bertram Wolfe."
 

That's right... I called you a liar. And I proved it.

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« Reply #106 on: January 02, 2011, 01:53:41 PM »

Quote from: Saint Iaint
No... No. There is plenty in Marx's messages themselves to address.

Then address them. The fact that almost your entire contribution to this forum consists of anti-Jewish rants reveals what your real priority is.

Quote
However the issue of the 'Jewish' predominance in early Communism is a separate one... and since Marx essentially created Communism... the fact that he too was 'Jewish' is notable.

Why?

Quote
I guess you were just hoping I wouldn't reply... or that no one would actually look at the links I offer as long as you can convince them that I am just a "Nazi"?

Encyclopedia Brittanica is not a "primary source." Winston Churchill's newspaper article is likewise not "primary", unless we are discussing anti-Semitism among English politicians. Nice try though. It's true, I didn't bother to go to Part 4 to read those American telegrams- I usually don't waste my time trawling through white supremacist propaganda- but I'm really curious how documents produced by the US intelligence agency somehow prove that the CPSU was run by Jews. This is not really "primary" either. Why couldn't they find Russian documents? Let me guess... "Obviously those Jewish Communists couldn't be trusted to give reliable data." Maybe you need to educate yoursel as to what a "primary source" is.

You should know that white nationalism is not compatible with the gospel.
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« Reply #107 on: January 02, 2011, 09:56:59 PM »

A saint Iaint ain't. Wink

Aw, you can read! Good for you!

~~~ ~~~ ~~~

Quote from: Saint Iaint
No... No. There is plenty in Marx's messages themselves to address.

Then address them. The fact that almost your entire contribution to this forum consists of anti-Jewish rants reveals what your real priority is.

Quote
However the issue of the 'Jewish' predominance in early Communism is a separate one... and since Marx essentially created Communism... the fact that he too was 'Jewish' is notable.

Why?

Quote
I guess you were just hoping I wouldn't reply... or that no one would actually look at the links I offer as long as you can convince them that I am just a "Nazi"?

Encyclopedia Brittanica is not a "primary source." Winston Churchill's newspaper article is likewise not "primary", unless we are discussing anti-Semitism among English politicians. Nice try though. It's true, I didn't bother to go to Part 4 to read those American telegrams- I usually don't waste my time trawling through white supremacist propaganda- but I'm really curious how documents produced by the US intelligence agency somehow prove that the CPSU was run by Jews. This is not really "primary" either. Why couldn't they find Russian documents? Let me guess... "Obviously those Jewish Communists couldn't be trusted to give reliable data." Maybe you need to educate yoursel as to what a "primary source" is.

You should know that white nationalism is not compatible with the gospel.


First - please forgive me for calling you a liar. That was wrong of me, and I am sorry for that.

Perhaps we are dealing with differing meanings of primary...

I thought you were basically saying that the only source for the things in question was whoever had written 'March of the Titans'. I just wanted to show that they had sources for the things therein, which were clearly listed.

Those included the Encyclopedia Brittanica and the Encyclopedia Judaica... I thought those were pretty good (if not strictly primary) sources to prove the blatant link between 'Jews' and Communism.

Same thing for Marx and Communism... Marx invented Communism. Marx was a 'Jew'.

Is it really so hard to see the connection there?

Communism was invented, financed and implemented in a disproportionately large part by so-called 'Jews'.

As for whether or not "White Nationalism" is compatible with the teachings of the Bible... Since I am not a "White Nationalist" - your point is irrelevant to me.

As far as I am concerned - there is only one race and that is the human race.

That however -  is not the doctrine of the Talmudists and Pharisees that call themselves 'Jews'.

According to their filthy Talmud - only the 'Jew' is considered to be "Man" as described in the Scriptures.

According to them - You and I and all non-'Jews' (Goyim) are not really human; we possess no soul and we were put here on Earth by God only to serve the 'Jews' as slaves.

Thanks to their institution of usurious fractional-reserve lending... most of us are just that: slaves to the now permanent taxes which are ostensibly needed to pay off the un-payable National debt.

If I have to work for half of the year to cover all of the various taxes... then for that half of the year when all of my hard-fought earnings go to the Government (which is beholden to the banks) - I am a SLAVE!

Most of these so-called 'Jews' are White people from Europe!

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« Reply #108 on: January 03, 2011, 01:33:35 AM »

Quote from: Iconodule
'Oh, you mean like digging into Marx's family history to link communism with tHa JOoOOhZ"

No... No. There is plenty in Marx's messages themselves to address. I never said anything like, "Marx is a 'Jew' - therefore Communism is bad."

However the issue of the 'Jewish' predominance in early Communism is a separate one... and since Marx essentially created Communism... the fact that he too was 'Jewish' is notable.

Quote
"Since the article doesn't cite any primary sources, but just consists of assertions and unsubstantiated "facts," it would be hard to do otherwise."

I guess you were just hoping I wouldn't reply... or that no one would actually look at the links I offer as long as you can convince them that I am just a "Nazi"?

You either can't read or you're a liar.

Here are quotes, citing sources from the page you have a problem with:

"Above left and right: Two extracts from the Encyclopedia Britannica, Vol. 18, page 717, 1984, Chicago, describing Leon Trotsky's critical role in the creation of the Communist state of the Soviet Union, describing him as the "outstanding leader" of the Russian Communist Revolution. The same article then goes on, above left, to reveal that Trotsky was born Lev Davidovich Bronstein, of a Jewish family from the Ukraine.

(...) Above left: Karl Marx, whose real family name was Mordechai, originator of the Communist ideology. Above right: An extract from the Encyclopedia Britannica, Vol. 11, page 459, 1984, Chicago, revealing Karl Marx's Jewish ancestry.

(...) Part Two: The Encyclopedia Judaica Confirms the Jewish Origin of Communism

The Encyclopedia Judaica, published in Jerusalem, Israel, by Jews, is available at most large public libraries and is in English. This reference book for all things Jewish is quite open about the Jewish role in Communism, particularly early Communism, and contains a large number of admissions in this regard.

(...) Above: The front cover of Volume 5 of the 1971 edition of the Encyclopedia Judaica, published in Jerusalem, Israel, from where all of the extracts below have been taken.

Under the entry for "Communism": in Volume 5, page 792, the following appears:

"The Communist Movement and ideology played an important part In Jewish life, particularly in the  1920s, 1930s and during and after World War II." (below)

(...) On page 793, the same Encyclopedia Judaica then goes on to say that "Communist trends became widespread in virtually all Jewish communities. In some countries, Jews became the leading element in the legal and illegal Communist Parties.."

(...) The Encyclopedia Judaica on page 793 then goes on to reveal that the Communist International actually instructed Jews to change their names so as "not confirm right-wing propaganda that presented Communism as an alien, Jewish conspiracy." (above).

JEWISH ROLE IN THE RUSSIAN COMMUNIST REVOLUTION

The Encyclopedia Judaica then goes on to describe the overwhelming role Jews played in creating the Soviet Union. On page 792 it says : "Individual Jews played an important role in the early stages of Bolshevism and the Soviet Regime" (below).

(...) On page 794 of the Encyclopedia Judaica, this Jewish reference book then goes to list the Jews prominent in the upper command of the Russian Communist party: these included Maxim Litvinov, (Later foreign minister of Soviet Russia); Grigori Zinoviev, Lwev Kamenev, Jacob Sverdlov, Lazar Kaganovich, and Karl Radek, amongst many others. (Below: page 794 of the Encyclopedia Judaica).

(...) The organizer of the Revolution was Trotsky, who prepared a special  committee to plan and prepare the coup which brought the Communists to power. according tot he  Encyclopedia Judaica, this  committee, called the Military Revolutionary Committee,, had five members - three of whom were Jews. (below)

(...) The Politburo - the supreme governing body of Russia immediately after the Communist Revolution - had four Jews amongst its seven members, according to page 797 of the Jewish Encyclopedia Judaica (below).

(...) While many have alleged that Lenin was also Jewish, or at least of part Jewish origin, there is little concrete evidence of this. However, Lenin was ardently pro-Jewish, branding anti-Semitism (correctly) as "counter revolutionary" (Encyclopedia Judaica, page 798). A statement against anti-Semitism was made by Lenin in March 1919 and was "one of the rare occasions when his voice was put on a phonograph record to be used in a mass campaign against the counterrevolutionary incitement against the Jews," according to the Encyclopedia Judaica, page 798.  One of the first laws passed by the new Soviet Communist government was to outlaw anti-Semitism (Encyclopedia Judaica, page 798, extract above).

(...) Part Three: Winston Churchill on the Jewish Role in Communism

The preponderance of Jews in the inner sanctum of the Communist revolution in Russia was in fact well known at the time that the revolution took place: it is only in the post Second World War II era that this fact has been suppressed. A good example of the contemporary awareness of the Jewish nature of early Russian Communism can be found in the writing of the young  Winston Churchill, later to become prime minister of Great Britain, who, in 1920, was also working as journalist.

In 1920, Churchill wrote a full page article for the Illustrated Sunday Herald on 8 February 1920 detailing the Jewish involvement in the revolution. Churchill discusses in this article the split between Jews: some are Communists, he wrote, while others are Jewish nationalists. Churchill favored the Jewish nationalists, (and of course they indeed fall foul of the Jewish Communists, eventually becoming bitter enemies) and he appealed to what he called "loyal Jews" to ensure that the Communist Jews did not succeed. Churchill went even further and blamed the Jews for "every subversive movement during the Nineteenth Century", writing :

"This movement amongst the Jews (the Russian Revolution) is not new. From the days of Spartacus Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kuhn (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany) and Emma Goldman (United States), this world wide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilization and the reconstruction of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. It played, as a modern writer, Mrs. Nesta Webster, has so ably shown, a definitely recognizable part in the tragedy of the French Revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the Nineteenth Century; and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities has gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire. There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution by these international and for the most part atheistic Jews. Moreover, the principal inspiration and driving power comes from Jewish leaders." (ibid)

Churchill also pointedly accused Leon Trotsky (Bronstein) of wanting to establish a "world wide Communistic state under Jewish domination" in this article.

(...) Winston Churchill, later prime minister of Britain, pointed out the large Jewish involvement in the Communist revolution in an article published in the Illustrated Sunday Herald, 8 February 1920. See in particular under the heading "Terrorist Jews", enlarged below. For the full article, click here ( NB: large file)

(...) Churchill was not the only journalist to note the Jewish role in the Russian Revolution: Robert Wilton, the chief correspondent for the London Times, who was stationed in Russia at the time, wrote in his book The Last Days of the Romanovs (Hornton Butterworth, London, 1920, pages 147, 22-28, 81,118, 199, 127, 139-148) that "90 per cent" of the new Soviet government was composed of Jews. The correspondent for the London Morning Post, Victor Marsden, went further and actually compiled a list of names of the top 545 Bolshevik officials: of these, Marsden said, 454 were Jews and only 23 Non-Jewish Russians. (All These Things, A.N. Field, Appendix B pages 274-276).

(...) Part Four: The US Army's Telegrams on the Jewish role in Communism

The American Army Intelligence Service had its agents in  Russia at the time of the Communist Revolution, and the Jewish nature of that revolution is accurately reflected in those reports.

An American Senate subcommittee investigation into the Russian Revolution heard evidence, put on congressional record, that "(I)n December 1919, under the presidency of a man named Apfelbaum (Zinovieff) . . . out of the 388 members of the Bolshevik central government, only 16 happened to be real Russians, and all the rest (with the exception of a Negro from the U.S.) were Jews" (U.S. Senate Document 62, 1919).

Below: Both these telegrams are from official US National Archives: the upper one, State Department document 861.00/1757 was sent on 2 May 1918, from Moscow by US Consul General Summers. The lower one, State Department document 861.00/2205, was sent from Vladivostok on 5 July 1918, by US Consul Caldwell. Both describe the domination of the Bolshevik Communists by Jews, using the words "Fifty per cent of Soviet Government in each town consists of Jews of the worst type..."

Copies of documents from the US National Archives are freely available to anyone from the Washington DC, USA, office.

(...) AMERICAN COMMUNIST PARTY ALSO JEWISH

Jews were also behind the American Communist Party, which although politically unsuccessful, was very successful in its espionage and infiltration activities, eventually reaching right into the Civil Rights Movement and that group's leader, Martin Luther King.

According to the Encyclopedia Judaica, published in Jerusalem, Israel (1971), page 804 (extract below)  "the list of Jews who played a prominent role in the leadership and factional infighting of the American Communist Party is a long one . . .Many American Jewish authors and intellectuals, some of whom later recanted, were active in editing Communist publications and spreading party propaganda  . . among them Micheal Gold, Howard Fast and Bertram Wolfe."
 

That's right... I called you a liar. And I proved it.

†IC XC†
†NI KA†


Only Kaganovich and Trotsky were full members of the Politburo. And so what if they had Jewish backgrounds? Does anyone think they were observant Jews or that their ethnicity played a role in their revolutionary politics? None of them, including Mark, were Zionists or supported Jewish institutions in any way.

Russia/USSR had a huge Jewish population, a high percentage of which were educated. A large number of the early revolutionaries (including Lenin/Ulyanov) were from the aristocracy or educated by the church (Stalin/Dzhugashvili), too. The universities in general were hotbeds of revolutionary unrest.

I get so tired of the assumption that because a person is Jewish one can automatically assume they hold a whole range of specific political and social ideas. In Central and Eastern Europe, an enormous percentage of the population has a Jewish relative somewhere in the family tree. (Including a number of top Nazis, Goering and Heydrich among them.)

It's also interesting that this discussion always tends to focus on the negative things a few Jews have been associated with. Why is that? Why is there never any mention of the thousands of humanitarian and artistic efforts supported by Jews and Jewish organizations?
« Last Edit: January 03, 2011, 01:42:11 AM by Hermogenes » Logged
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« Reply #109 on: January 03, 2011, 01:55:13 PM »



[/quote]
I get so tired of the assumption that because a person is Jewish one can automatically assume they hold a whole range of specific political and social ideas. In Central and Eastern Europe, an enormous percentage of the population has a Jewish relative somewhere in the family tree. (Including a number of top Nazis, Goering and Heydrich among them.)

It's also interesting that this discussion always tends to focus on the negative things a few Jews have been associated with. Why is that? Why is there never any mention of the thousands of humanitarian and artistic efforts supported by Jews and Jewish organizations?
[/quote]

I agree, it is interesting to notr that we Orthodox are very often misrepresented and stereotyped because of the extreme world views and superstitious practices of some. When we are so tarred, we rise up into a rage and fury.
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« Reply #110 on: January 03, 2011, 02:06:52 PM »

Quote from: Hermogenes
I get so tired of the assumption that because a person is Jewish one can automatically assume they hold a whole range of specific political and social ideas.

Agreed. Many of the Jewish radicals held Judaism in contempt. For example, at the turn of the century, Jewish anarchists in Philadelphia and New York City would hold "Yom Kippur balls" to mock the Jewish religion.

Many of the leading critics of Zionism are of Jewish heritage: Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn, Norman Finkelstein, etc.

Attempting to connect Marxism to "Talmudism" is laughable. Guess what? Some of the leading theorists of anarchism, including Michael Bakunin and Prince Peter Kropotkin, were Russian aristocrats. Ooh, maybe anarchism is just an Orthodox conspiracy!
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« Reply #111 on: January 04, 2011, 09:16:42 AM »

Quote from: Hermogenes
I get so tired of the assumption that because a person is Jewish one can automatically assume they hold a whole range of specific political and social ideas.

Agreed. Many of the Jewish radicals held Judaism in contempt. For example, at the turn of the century, Jewish anarchists in Philadelphia and New York City would hold "Yom Kippur balls" to mock the Jewish religion.

Many of the leading critics of Zionism are of Jewish heritage: Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn, Norman Finkelstein, etc.

Attempting to connect Marxism to "Talmudism" is laughable. Guess what? Some of the leading theorists of anarchism, including Michael Bakunin and Prince Peter Kropotkin, were Russian aristocrats. Ooh, maybe anarchism is just an Orthodox conspiracy!

And Ulyanov, aka Lenin, who was a member of the nobility, as well as a non-Russian. He was of Chugash ancestry.

Revolution was in the air all throughout Europe.It spawned everything from the Black Hand in Serbia to the Fascist party in Italy. people from all walks of life were involved. One of the most famous was her royal and imperial highness Archduchess Elizabeth Marie of Austria. She was the daughter of Crown Prince Rudolph and granddaughter of the embodiment of the status quo, Franz Joseph I. So it cut all across lines of class and interest. It's ridiculous to say it was a Jewish phenomenon, although maybe not to say that as a persecuted group they might have had more personal interest in change than someone like Prince Kropotkin.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2011, 09:25:54 AM by Hermogenes » Logged
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« Reply #112 on: January 04, 2011, 09:25:26 AM »

And Ulyanov, aka Lenin, who was a member of the nobility, as well as a non-Russian. He was of Chugash ancestry.

Chuvash, and only through his paternal grandfather.
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« Reply #113 on: January 04, 2011, 09:26:54 AM »

And Ulyanov, aka Lenin, who was a member of the nobility, as well as a non-Russian. He was of Chugash ancestry.

Chuvash, and only through his paternal grandfather.

Sorry for the spelling, I don't type well.
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« Reply #114 on: January 10, 2011, 12:26:39 PM »

Only Kaganovich and Trotsky were full members of the Politburo. And so what if they had Jewish backgrounds? Does anyone think they were observant Jews or that their ethnicity played a role in their revolutionary politics? None of them, including Mark, were Zionists
Is Zionism the determinate of Judaism?  The Ultra-Orthodox were, and are not, Zionists, but they seem to think that they are Jews.  In fact, the lion's share of Zioinists today are evangelical Protestants.
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« Reply #115 on: January 10, 2011, 12:48:44 PM »

Only Kaganovich and Trotsky were full members of the Politburo. And so what if they had Jewish backgrounds? Does anyone think they were observant Jews or that their ethnicity played a role in their revolutionary politics? None of them, including Mark, were Zionists
Is Zionism the determinate of Judaism?  The Ultra-Orthodox were, and are not, Zionists, but they seem to think that they are Jews.  In fact, the lion's share of Zioinists today are evangelical Protestants.

I meant "including Marx," of course.
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