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Author Topic: The Protocols of the Elders of Zion  (Read 10502 times) Average Rating: 0
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Acolyte
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« on: October 11, 2008, 07:55:47 AM »

What is the Protocols of the Elders of Zion? Was it a hoax by the Tsarist government?
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« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2008, 09:18:53 AM »

Yes. Next question please.
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« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2008, 09:47:32 AM »

No. Next question please.  Tongue
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« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2008, 10:27:29 AM »

Maybe.  Next question please.
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« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2008, 11:41:02 AM »

Total hoax, next question please.   angel
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« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2008, 12:32:53 PM »

What is are the Protocols of the Elders of Zion? Next question please.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2008, 12:33:21 PM by ytterbiumanalyst » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2008, 04:14:57 PM »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protocols_of_the_elders_of_zion
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« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2008, 04:41:56 PM »

I think this is one of the questions from the category, "Did Americans land on the Moon?", "Was Lee H. Oswald the only person who shot at Kennedy," etc. etc. etc.  Grin

It certainly does look like a hoax. Yet, I read somewhere that Sergey Nilus, a very deep and most definitely Orthodox Russian writer of the late 1800-s - early 1900-s could have been the author of this opus.
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« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2008, 04:51:41 PM »

and most definitely Orthodox Russian writer of the late 1800-s - early 1900-s could have been the author of this opus.

What do you mean "most definitely Orthodox"? Undecided
What is "Orthodox" about producing a forgery in order to vilify people and incite hatred? Don't all lies have the father of lies as their ultimate source?
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« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2008, 05:22:07 PM »

and most definitely Orthodox Russian writer of the late 1800-s - early 1900-s could have been the author of this opus.

What do you mean "most definitely Orthodox"? Undecided
What is "Orthodox" about producing a forgery in order to vilify people and incite hatred? Don't all lies have the father of lies as their ultimate source?

Well, Nilus was a very devout Orthodox, at least appeared to be... I don't want to judge the sincerity of his convictions.

BTW, the Russian online library "XPOHOC" has an article about him, which mentions that St. John of Kronshtadt gave Nilus a special blessing to publish the "Protocols" (http://hronos.km.ru/biograf/bio_n/nilus.html). Perhaps St. John was as bigoted against Jews as Nilus was, and yet he still was, and is, an Orthodox saint. It's all complicated...
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« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2008, 05:25:21 PM »

Lets ask Matthew what he thinks.
What do you think Matthew?
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« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2008, 05:59:55 PM »

and most definitely Orthodox Russian writer of the late 1800-s - early 1900-s could have been the author of this opus.

What do you mean "most definitely Orthodox"? Undecided
What is "Orthodox" about producing a forgery in order to vilify people and incite hatred? Don't all lies have the father of lies as their ultimate source?

Anti-Jewish sentiment seems to be a besetting fault of the Orthodox, in which Nilus naturally participated.  (Whatever may be the moral turpitude of entertaining such a sentiment, it helps to understand whence it arose:  Bat Ye'or claims with some force that the propagation of anti-Jewish sentiment was the means by which Orthodox Christians were able to pacify their Moslem masters).  I argue that we are all like babies--unaware of the scent of our own diapers--and so without consenting to the faults of others are obliged to not let those faults blind us to the virtues of others.  In the case of S. Nilus, there can be no doubt that he was taken in by the Protocols because of its substance.  I had read that the Protocols, though fraudulent, were yet prophetic of much of the 20th century, and had wondered how the perpetrators could have been so prescient.  It turns out that much of the Protocols were based plagiarized.  In particular, they drew on Maurice Joly's _Dialogues in Hell Between Machiavelli and Montesquieu_ (http://www.geocities.com/net3431/Dialogues_In_Hell.html), which turn out to be very meaty reading indeed.  If you read Joly and then the Protocols, you will understand how the Protocols pass back and forth from penetrating thought to sheer hysteria.  
Also, think about how many people of education and discretion were in mid-century blind-sided by, say, Freud or Jung.  
DanM
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« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2008, 06:47:51 PM »

Lets ask Matthew what he thinks.
What do you think Matthew?
OK, I'll bite; who's Matthew?
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« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2008, 07:46:37 PM »

Lets ask Matthew what he thinks.
What do you think Matthew?
OK, I'll bite; who's Matthew?
A poster from before our time.
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« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2008, 07:54:13 PM »

If it is indeed Matthew, it is good to see him return. Now if we could just get TomS back, this place would really liven up!...

EDIT--Although I see that Matthew is no longer banned, but is only warned now on his old name.
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« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2008, 07:58:54 PM »

A poster from before our time.

A banned poster from before your time.
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« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2008, 09:57:57 PM »

IMHO, I don't think Matthew777 should have been banned.  He is just young, idealist and enthusiastic.  Now regarding TomS...I was only privy to about a years worth of his posts which although were caustic at times also proved to be quite entertaining.  I especially enjoyed his return as SmoT, ha ha!!!

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« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2008, 10:55:24 PM »

DIXIT ALIQUIS
Perhaps St. John was as bigoted against Jews as Nilus was, and yet he still was, and is, an Orthodox saint. It's all complicated...

DICO
Not necessarily.  St. John of K. cd. have been taken in, too.  Saints are not infallible.
DanM
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« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2008, 01:19:23 AM »

I am not an idealist. The more you learn about human nature, the more you realize that the world will get worse before it ever gets better, and that peace can only be found from within.
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« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2008, 06:27:59 AM »

I am not an idealist. The more you learn about human nature, the more you realize that the world will get worse before it ever gets better, and that peace can only be found from within.
At any rate, it's good to see you back Matthew, however, could you please look at the forum rules, in particular, the first general rule.
We need to find a solution to this situation of you having two usernames, so please work with us on this.
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« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2008, 06:36:29 AM »

If it is indeed Matthew, it is good to see him return. Now if we could just get TomS back, this place would really liven up!...

EDIT--Although I see that Matthew is no longer banned, but is only warned now on his old name.

Actually, no, there is still a ban in place (which is not visible in your view of his profile), however, both Matthew and TomS were in fact invited to apply for readmission by the Mod team a few weeks ago.
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« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2008, 07:26:00 AM »

Matthew/Pensees/Spyridon is back? Oh my...Invited back you say? I have many questions for the lad.  Wink
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« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2008, 07:37:39 AM »

Matthew/Pensees/Spyridon is back? Oh my...Invited back you say?
He was invited to apply for readmission under his old name of Matthew777. Registering under a new name and email was something he did himself without applying and is a no-no under forum rules. Hopefully he will work with us to rectify this.
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« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2008, 08:07:58 AM »

Matthew/Pensees/Spyridon is back? Oh my...Invited back you say?
He was invited to apply for readmission under his old name of Matthew777. Registering under a new name and email was something he did himself without applying and is a no-no under forum rules. Hopefully he will work with us to rectify this.

Understood; that's your job. My questions are along other lines.

I must give my buddy Smot as nudge.
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« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2008, 09:23:24 AM »

Brother Matthew (Acolyte),
   Forgive me if I offended you.  Welcome back.  I hope you go back to your old username.

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« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2008, 05:24:36 PM »

I really am an acolyte.
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« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2008, 05:28:27 PM »

I really am an acolyte.

That's just spiffing, but what has that to do with anything?
You were asked to apply for readmission, but you did not apply for readmission, you just opened a new account for yourself.
So how about you pm the Admin/Mod team and we get this sorted out?
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« Reply #27 on: October 19, 2008, 08:40:22 PM »

So what's up Matthew? How about gettin' this whole thing straightened out?
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« Reply #28 on: October 19, 2008, 08:50:19 PM »

Yes, Matthew, you've been fooling no one for quite a while.

Let us know which user name you wish to use (Acolyte? Matthew777? Pensees? Something else?), and then your posts currently stuck in the Moderation Corral can be released to the forum.
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« Reply #29 on: October 24, 2008, 06:56:18 PM »

This was indeed a hoax written by some antisemitic Russians. Unfortunately many Orthodox supported it, but the metropolitan of Moscow (when it was written) condemned it.
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« Reply #30 on: November 08, 2010, 09:07:33 AM »

Maybe.  Next question please.
  Grin
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« Reply #31 on: November 08, 2010, 10:47:14 AM »

http://www.amazon.com/Plot-Secret-Story-Protocols-Elders/dp/0393060454


I highly recommend the above work about this. Will Eisner is a master of comics and debunks the hoax masterfully with thorough historical facts while producing a piece that catches our attention from the beginning.
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« Reply #32 on: November 23, 2010, 07:02:06 AM »

Please google THE PROTOCOLS OF THE LEARNED ELDERS OF ZION, and read as much as you can, it is very long, but worth reading, please let me know what you think of this???

God Bless you,

Andreas
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« Reply #33 on: November 23, 2010, 07:12:04 AM »

it's proven to be a fraud
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Learned_Elders_of_Zion
http://www.skepdic.com/protocols.html
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1797/whats-the-story-with-the-protocols-of-the-elders-of-zion
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« Reply #34 on: November 23, 2010, 07:42:25 AM »

I love that Tallitot was the one to respond to this.  Grin
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« Reply #35 on: November 23, 2010, 08:50:11 AM »

It was Sergey Nilus who printed and reprinted The Protocols and then printed them again.  If the 1917 Revolution had not stopped him he would have gone on printing them,  They were taken to Western Europe after 1917 by the Russians who were fleeing the Soviets.

Nilus himself knew that the Protocols were fake but he wanted to make use of them in his anti-Jewish campaign.....  Nilus:  "Let us admit that the Protocols are spurious, but can't God use them to unmask the iniquity that is being prepared?"

I have read somewhere that Russian bishops are printing them with an episcopal blessing, in Russia.  Shame on them.
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« Reply #36 on: November 23, 2010, 08:55:56 AM »

Boze moj. My God. Here we go again. The poisoned fruits of the forces of darkness unleashed by that 'work' and others have borne much evil and will bear more in the future if some, as Orthodox continue to promote such a canard. That 'work' is the basis for one of the greatest, if not the greatest, crime ever perpetrated by a people against other human beings in the modern age. I am speaking of the Holocaust of course. Visiting the Holocaust Museum in Washington, D.C. (or other such memorials in Berlin and elsewhere)and reflecting on why it occurred and how a nation that produced the some of the greatest achievements of post-Enlightenment Europe - musicians, artists, writers, scientists - could reduce itself to such barbarity against fellow humans seems to me to be an appropriate penance for anyone going down that path. The same mentality that allowed the forces of the German state to strike out against the Jewish population of Europe allowed that state to enslave and kill millions of Slavs, Roma and others, including multitudes of Christian martyrs who died in the darkness of the labor camps or in defense of their families and neighbors, Orthodox and non-Orthodox alike, who are known only to God. Not to mention that the 'book' is still a large part of the state-sponsored 'education' of Muslim youth in the Muslim world. As we enter Philip's Fast (Filipovka) we ought to be focusing our souls on the mystery the Incarnation - not upon the products of fear, hatred and ignorance like the 'opus' suggested by the OP.
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« Reply #37 on: November 23, 2010, 09:00:46 AM »

Please google THE PROTOCOLS OF THE LEARNED ELDERS OF ZION, and read as much as you can, it is very long, but worth reading, please let me know what you think of this???

God Bless you,

Andreas
I've read the whole thing, and it doesn't even make good toilet paper, let alone anything factual.
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« Reply #38 on: November 23, 2010, 11:59:48 AM »

If you really want to know the truth about who, or what, is controlling our world, you must watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJHiU-X9Y-0&feature=related
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« Reply #39 on: November 23, 2010, 12:15:08 PM »

If you really want to know the truth about who, or what, is controlling our world, you must watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJHiU-X9Y-0&feature=related

A man on the George Noory show once said that Britney Spears was being controlled by microwaves. He may have had something there.
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« Reply #40 on: November 23, 2010, 12:30:22 PM »

"You're travelling through another dimension. A dimension, not only of sight and sound, but of mind. A journey into a wondrous land whose boundaries are that of imagination. Next stop, the Twilight Zone!" ....thanks to a distinguished alum of my high school, Binghamton Central, Rod Serling.... Wink
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« Reply #41 on: November 23, 2010, 08:13:47 PM »

The Protocols Hoax
By Gordon Stein

http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2010/09/protocols-hoax.html


Some hoaxes are harmless and can be considered for their humor alone. The Protocols of the Elders of Zion hoax (hereafter called the Protocols) is another matter altogether. This hoax had serious, even deadly consequences. Lives were lost as a result because of this hoax, although it is impossible to estimate how many.

The Protocols have a tangled and mysterious history. Many scholars have worked to untangle this history, but the greatest credit goes to Norman Cohn, author of Warrant for Genocide. Other major contributions were made by Herman Bernstein and Philip Graves, each of whom identified one of the two novels that were major sources for the Protocols.

While not all the steps by which the Protocols arrived in final form are known, it appears that production started in Russia in about 1895. However, The true origin of the Protocols lies in Paris, 1864. In that year, a political satirist named Maurice Joly published his book. Although the book was actually published in Brussels, its title page said it was published in Geneva. Joly's book, Dialogue aux Enfer entre Montesquieu et Machiavel (A Dialog in Hell Between Montesquieu and Machiavelli), openly criticized Emperor Napoleon III -- which, at the time, was criminal. The author put the emperor's words into the mouth of political philosophers Machiavelli and Montesquieu, using the latter to present the case for liberalism. The book was smuggled into France, but was seized at the border. Joly was arrested and tried. On April 25,1865, he was sentenced to fifteen months imprisonment. The book was banned and copies confiscated, making it a rare work. This rarity has helped hide the fact that large sections of the imagined dialog have been lifted and grafted on to the work that became the Protocols. [My wife, who speaks French, has personally verified this. -Birdman]



http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2010/09/protocols-hoax.html

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« Reply #42 on: November 23, 2010, 09:43:49 PM »

Please google THE PROTOCOLS OF THE LEARNED ELDERS OF ZION, and read as much as you can, it is very long, but worth reading, please let me know what you think of this???

God Bless you,

Andreas

I think that it is well-known to be a forgery.
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« Reply #43 on: November 23, 2010, 10:08:36 PM »

The more people read this garbage and have it printed only pushes humanity back a few thousand steps. It is terrible to believe in crap like this. Lord have mercy!
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CRCulver
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St Stephen of Perm, missionary to speakers of Komi


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« Reply #44 on: November 23, 2010, 10:12:30 PM »

Not to mention that the 'book' is still a large part of the state-sponsored 'education' of Muslim youth in the Muslim world.

Not saying you're wrong, but do you have any references to the Protocols used in school textbooks? The Saudi textbooks seem to base their hatred of Jews on hadiths, not the Protocols.

I have seen the Protocols sold in the Middle East, though. I remember walking past a book stand on a Cairo street where the Protocols was right next to a flattering biography of Hitler and the "Gospel of Barnabas". I tried to get a photo, but the bookseller knew how controversial his stock was to the West and got rather aggressive.
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