OrthodoxChristianity.net
April 16, 2014, 06:33:00 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: The Rules page has been updated.  Please familiarize yourself with its contents!
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags CHAT Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Commentary on the Book of Genesis  (Read 1494 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Acolyte
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: The One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Jurisdictionalism is sin.
Posts: 202



« on: September 29, 2008, 07:44:23 AM »

This is a Coptic commentary on the book of Genesis which supports a young earth belief:
http://www.saint-mary.net/books/Genesis.pdf

Is this the common view in Oriental Orthodoxy?
Logged
Jonathan
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic
Posts: 753


WWW
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2008, 09:33:24 AM »

This is a Coptic commentary on the book of Genesis which supports a young earth belief:
http://www.saint-mary.net/books/Genesis.pdf

Is this the common view in Oriental Orthodoxy?

It isn't a common or official belief.  H.H. Pope Shenouda III argues strongly that the days refer to ages.

Quote
Question: How can the saying of the Bible that God created the world in six days coincide with the opinion of the geolgists that the age of the earth is thousands even millions of years?.

answer: The days of creation are not Solard ays as our days now... The day of creation is a period of time, not known how long, which could have been a second or thousands or millions of years.  This period was determined by the saying "so the evening and the morning were..."

The evidences for this are many, among which are:
1. The Solar day is the period of time between the sunrise and its rising again or between the sunset and its settinga gagin.  Since the Sun was only created on the fourth day (Gn 1:16-19)... then the first four days were not solar days.

2. As for the seventh day, the Bible did not state that it has ended... The Bible did not say [so the evening and the morning were the seventh day[, and thousands of years passed from Adam till now while this seventhe day is still going on.  Accordingly, the days of creation are not Solar days but unkown periods of time.

3. As a whole, the Bible said about the creation and its six days: "This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were reated, in (the day) that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens." (Gn 2:4).  So the Bible summed up in the word (day) all the six days of creation...

Let the geologists ay then whatever they want about the age fo the earth; for the Bible did not mention any age fo rthe earth that may contradict the view of the geologists.  The way the Lord looks to the measure of time is explained by the apostle as follows: "With the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years are like one day" (2 Pet 3:Cool

Since the book you posted is rather long, could you point to the page which supports young earth beliefs?  Glancing at it quickly it seems to be saying about the same thing.
Logged
minasoliman
Mr., Sir, Dude, Guy, Male, tr. Minas in Greek, Menes in white people Egyptologists :-P
Section Moderator
Merarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic Orthodox Archdiocese of North America
Posts: 8,878


Pray for me, Sts. Mina & Kyrillos VI for my exams


WWW
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2008, 12:28:46 PM »

I don't see any Young Earth Creationism espoused in this book.  If there's anything that can describe our contemporary Coptic Church opinion on creation, most, if not all clerics believe in an old earth, and they would not have a problem in agreeing with fossil dating methods.

In fact, as I'm skimming through the beginning of this book, it seems that Fr. Tadros does not want to contradict the theory of evolution either.  At the same time, he's also trying hard to show some sort of scientific accuracy in Genesis, which is expected from a typical Coptic cleric.  Today most Copts, especially those from Egypt (not in the diaspora) take a Bible literalist, anti-evolution view, probably so to answer back at Islam which holds the Koran in the same esteem, not realizing that the ancient Bible exegetes in the Church, some of which were Egyptians, did not take all parts literally and accurately as Copts would want today.

At the same time, Fr. Tadros is a Coptic priest who I respect a lot.  There is a lot you can learn and benefit from his writings.  So, even if may believe in certain scientific inaccuracies, he is still someone who I believe is a gem in our Church when it comes to spiritual interpretation of Scripture.  Fr. Tadros is also someone who loves Origen immensely, and will quote from him a lot.  So, perhaps, he would wish one would take his literal tendencies with a grain of salt, as Origen himself believed this is not as important in many areas of the Bible, like Genesis.

God bless.
Logged

Vain existence can never exist, for \\\"unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain.\\\" (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.
Acolyte
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: The One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Jurisdictionalism is sin.
Posts: 202



« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2008, 01:19:14 PM »

This is from page 33:

Using mathematical calculations, man cannot be more than 6,000 years old. Assuming that every family had three children (a low number compared to previous centuries) and after accounting for natural death catastrophes and wars, we find that the world's population would approximate what it actually is now. If human history goes back a million years, then the world's population would have needed several times the land space we have now.

I also find it interesting that ancient Jewish commentaries like Seder Olam support a young earth.
Logged
Jonathan
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic
Posts: 753


WWW
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2008, 01:59:08 PM »

This is from page 33:

Using mathematical calculations, man cannot be more than 6,000 years old. Assuming that every family had three children (a low number compared to previous centuries) and after accounting for natural death catastrophes and wars, we find that the world's population would approximate what it actually is now. If human history goes back a million years, then the world's population would have needed several times the land space we have now.

I also find it interesting that ancient Jewish commentaries like Seder Olam support a young earth.

This is not talking about young earth... just I guess young human civilization.  Young earth means literal six 24 hr day creation a few thousand years ago.  The Coptic Church does not teach that.  However, evolution is another matter entirely.  Evolution is generally not accepted.  It is hard to think of how evolution can be reconciled with the fall for example.

It seems impossbile to refute the science that says the earth is old, and no reason why it would it would give us trouble to reconcile it with revelation.  But the theory of evolution is much less water tight, and it's much more difficult to see how to reconcile it.

Here are some articles that address this question directly:

http://www.stmaryscopticorthodox.ca/publications/articles/sci/sci.html

and here are audio recordings of lectures on the same topic:

http://www.stmaryscopticorthodox.ca/media/media_sermons/sermon_sci/sermon_sci.html

They're mostly targeted to a high school audience, but still worth checking out if you're interested in this area.
Logged
Acolyte
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: The One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Jurisdictionalism is sin.
Posts: 202



« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2008, 02:27:51 PM »

It seems impossbile to refute the science that says the earth is old

It is also impossible to know with certainty. If God created Adam in a state of maturity, He could have done the same for the universe.
When Jesus turned water into wine, it had the appearance of grapes grown to maturation, squashed into grape juice, and fermented into alcohol. This He did in an instant. Those who were unaware of this miracle believed that it was normal wine, just as those who don't believe in a literal understanding of Genesis believe the earth is much older than what it says. While I don't believe that a young earth belief is required by Scripture or Christian faith, there are possible alternative explanations for scientific discoveries that conflict with the traditional understanding of Genesis.

Logged
Acolyte
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: The One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Jurisdictionalism is sin.
Posts: 202



« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2008, 02:27:55 PM »

Thank you for the articles. I appreciate it.
Logged
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.053 seconds with 34 queries.