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Author Topic: Why is "white pride" an inherently racist term?  (Read 8877 times) Average Rating: 0
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Acolyte
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« on: September 26, 2008, 11:23:25 PM »

While the majority of white people consider themselves part of a distinct cultural group that is worth preserving, the term "white pride" is never used without the connotation of racial hatred. Yet the world is in debt to our achievements in the arts, sciences, government, technology, and business. Modern civilization is greatly built on what white people have contributed. For whatever reason, the world has chosen to emulate us.

While we don't deserve to be worshiped as some absurd "super race," neither should we be viewed as nothing more than an oppressor. At certain times in history, whites have been the victims of racial hatred, and seeing us solely as an aggressor will blind one to this fact. While they don't teach you about the Greek and Armenian genocides in our politically correct public school system, that doesn't mean they didn't occur.

With the declining birth rate, rejection of tradition, and open immigration of Western European countries, what we've learned of in school as Europe may not exist in the future. White European civilization is committing cultural suicide, and those in the political and academic elite are cheering it on. What is it about white European civilization that requires us to hate ourselves? If "white pride" is intolerable, can we please stop the double-standard, and end every kind of ethnic pride?
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« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2008, 11:27:34 PM »

Uhm, shouldn't this be in the politics section?
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« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2008, 02:21:06 AM »

Uhm, shouldn't this be in the politics section?

Shouldn't this be in the trash?

Acolyte, no one is indebted to the white race for any achievements. We are indebted to people for what they have given the human race, gifts that are often denied to non-whites. I don't know if you've ever heard of that little thing called the history book, but many great civilzations were built on the backs of slaves, poor people and conquered cultures deemed weaker. If you take a gander at American history, you will notice that the region referred to as "The South" was built on the backs of black slaves....but it's really the achievements of the whites that really matters, right? Roll Eyes
White pride IS intolerable because those that spout such nonsense often do so in the attitude that they are better than non-whites, that the world owes so much to the white race for its achievements, and the good land and the resources should go to the whites because..well...they're better than the rest of us. Look up the horrible and racist ranting singing group Prussian Blue. They spout "White Pride", and they "honorably" held up that idiot ideal when they wanted their donations to go to white people instead of non-whites in the wake of Hurricane Katrina.
White Pride is often about hating and keeping at bay those that are non-white, with seeing them as inferior and invasive of "what belongs to the whites", while black pride and brown pride are about pride in the accomplishments of those races after so many centuries of having to believe that whites are better. It isn't a double standard because of the context of the pride. I'm proud to be bi-racial, but I don't think I'm better than any race because of history or the color of my skin.

Why do you consider it suicide for white europe to embrace elements that are outside its own sphere of influence? You know what I think? White europe could do with more thai restaurants and Morrocan furniture shops. You should rent the movie Bubble Boy--you'll see how unhappy life can become when you stay inside a bubble. Wink
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« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2008, 03:11:38 AM »

"White Pride" is inherently racist for a few reasons:

1. First of all what do you even mean by white? Anyone decended from the germanic areas? the first European settlers in North America?

2. The term has been used by various White Supremacist groups such as Neo-Nazi's and the KKK to show hatred to other "non-whites"

3. I didn't know there was such a thing as white
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« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2008, 06:34:15 AM »

Race and ethnicity are not the same thing. Race is a set of distinct physical characteristics; ethnicity is the shared elements of a culture common to a particular group of people. Culture is delicate and important, and should be preserved; racism, the setting of one race against another based on perceptions of physical features, is ignorant and should be destroyed.

Who is to say that the Irish and Italians have any kind of shared history, just because of their geographic proximity and roughly similar physical characteristics? I submit that the Irish have more in common with the Indians than they do with the Italians--a long and distinct cultural history, strong family ties, a sense of community responsibility, conquest by a colonial power, and impressment into military service by the same colonial power. And racists would say that we and the Indians are a completely different race.

There is only one race, the human race. Dressing up in hoods and burning crosses does not change that fact.
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« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2008, 08:57:01 AM »

While the majority of white people consider themselves part of a distinct cultural group that is worth preserving, the term "white pride" is never used without the connotation of racial hatred. Yet the world is in debt to our achievements in the arts, sciences, government, technology, and business. Modern civilization is greatly built on what white people have contributed. For whatever reason, the world has chosen to emulate us.

While we don't deserve to be worshiped as some absurd "super race," neither should we be viewed as nothing more than an oppressor. At certain times in history, whites have been the victims of racial hatred, and seeing us solely as an aggressor will blind one to this fact. While they don't teach you about the Greek and Armenian genocides in our politically correct public school system, that doesn't mean they didn't occur.

With the declining birth rate, rejection of tradition, and open immigration of Western European countries, what we've learned of in school as Europe may not exist in the future. White European civilization is committing cultural suicide, and those in the political and academic elite are cheering it on. What is it about white European civilization that requires us to hate ourselves? If "white pride" is intolerable, can we please stop the double-standard, and end every kind of ethnic pride?

There is nothing wrong with British pride, Irish pride, scotish pride, Welse pride, English pride, French pride, Spanish pride, Polish pride, German pride.......ect.

"White pride" is not Ethnic. Now you can call it western European pride. There are other ways of talking about the culture of various people groups without using racial terms.

In America, "white pride" is associated with the KKK, Skin heads, and other groups of the sort. I'm sure you can have pride in ones culture without being a racist.





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« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2008, 09:04:52 AM »

the world is in debt to our achievements in the arts, sciences, government, technology, and business.
Who's achievements? Who is this "us" you are referring to?
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« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2008, 09:13:22 AM »

There is nothing wrong with British pride, Irish pride, scotish pride, Welse pride, English pride, French pride, Spanish pride, Polish pride, German pride.......ect.
Sure there is: pride. There is nothing wrong, of course, with valuing one's heritage, but it is always a bad thing to believe one's own ethnicity is greater than others'.
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« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2008, 09:19:59 AM »

Sure there is: pride. There is nothing wrong, of course, with valuing one's heritage, but it is always a bad thing to believe one's own ethnicity is greater than others'.
Interesting point.
"Pride" is the valuing of one's own culture/ethnicity/etc above another.
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« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2008, 09:36:34 AM »

Sure there is: pride. There is nothing wrong, of course, with valuing one's heritage, but it is always a bad thing to believe one's own ethnicity is greater than others'.
Interesting point.
"Pride" is the valuing of one's own culture/ethnicity/etc above another.
Uh, that's how it's YOURS. Duh.
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« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2008, 09:38:59 AM »

While the majority of white people consider themselves part of a distinct cultural group that is worth preserving, the term "white pride" is never used without the connotation of racial hatred. Yet the world is in debt to our achievements in the arts, sciences, government, technology, and business. Modern civilization is greatly built on what white people have contributed. For whatever reason, the world has chosen to emulate us.

While we don't deserve to be worshiped as some absurd "super race," neither should we be viewed as nothing more than an oppressor. At certain times in history, whites have been the victims of racial hatred, and seeing us solely as an aggressor will blind one to this fact. While they don't teach you about the Greek and Armenian genocides in our politically correct public school system, that doesn't mean they didn't occur.

With the declining birth rate, rejection of tradition, and open immigration of Western European countries, what we've learned of in school as Europe may not exist in the future. White European civilization is committing cultural suicide, and those in the political and academic elite are cheering it on. What is it about white European civilization that requires us to hate ourselves? If "white pride" is intolerable, can we please stop the double-standard, and end every kind of ethnic pride?

Ayn Rand.

Who would have guessed?
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« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2008, 09:42:43 AM »

Sure there is: pride. There is nothing wrong, of course, with valuing one's heritage, but it is always a bad thing to believe one's own ethnicity is greater than others'.
Interesting point.
"Pride" is the valuing of one's own culture/ethnicity/etc above another.
Uh, that's how it's YOURS. Duh.

Could you explain what you mean please?
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« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2008, 10:04:40 AM »

Sure there is: pride. There is nothing wrong, of course, with valuing one's heritage, but it is always a bad thing to believe one's own ethnicity is greater than others'.
Interesting point.
"Pride" is the valuing of one's own culture/ethnicity/etc above another.
Uh, that's how it's YOURS. Duh.
Could you explain what you mean please?

If, for instance, you don't value your wife over all other women, how is she your wife?
If, for instance, you don't value your chidren over all others, how are they yours?

If you don't value your own culture/etnicity/etc. above another, how is it yours?  Not to choose is to choose.

Many who don't like theirs, go for another.  In countries like Australia and the US, that should be more obvious than elsewhere.

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« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2008, 10:09:58 AM »

If, for instance, you don't value your wife over all other women, how is she your wife?
Because we are married. My valuation of her is irrelevant.

Quote
If, for instance, you don't value your chidren over all others, how are they yours?
Because my wife and I gave them life. My valuation of them is irrelevant.

Quote
If you don't value your own culture/etnicity/etc. above another, how is it yours?  Not to choose is to choose.
Because my ancestors lived in a certain place and looked a certain way. Again, my valuation of this is irrelevant.

Quote
Many who don't like theirs, go for another.  In countries like Australia and the US, that should be more obvious than elsewhere.
And many who do not like their sex have surgery. It doesn't change reality.
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« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2008, 10:11:36 AM »

Just so OzG doesn't think I always disagree with him  Wink, this has to be one of the most ridiculous topics ever started here...ever. It is beneath comment or opinion other than that.
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« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2008, 10:15:01 AM »

^ I agree with you, Aristokles, and I think I wouldn't have said anything save that I teach high school in Klan territory. This issue is one of the ones our faculty fight most.
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« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2008, 10:17:46 AM »

^ I agree with you, Aristokles, and I think I wouldn't have said anything save that I teach high school in Klan territory. This issue is one of the ones our faculty fight most.

 Shocked Undecided Wow...how sad...sick even.
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« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2008, 10:19:23 AM »

^ I agree with you, Aristokles, and I think I wouldn't have said anything save that I teach high school in Klan territory. This issue is one of the ones our faculty fight most.

 Shocked Undecided Wow...how sad...sick even.
Indeed.
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« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2008, 10:26:59 AM »

If, for instance, you don't value your wife over all other women, how is she your wife?
Because we are married. My valuation of her is irrelevant.
EoK?
Quote
If, for instance, you don't value your chidren over all others, how are they yours?
Because my wife and I gave them life. My valuation of them is irrelevant.[/quote]


If you don't value your own culture/etnicity/etc. above another, how is it yours?  Not to choose is to choose.
[/quote]
Because my ancestors lived in a certain place and looked a certain way. Again, my valuation of this is irrelevant.[/quote]

Since you are in Missouri, they lived in a certain OTHER place.  Their valuation of their ancestors was obviously relevant, or you would be somewhere else.



Quote
Many who don't like theirs, go for another.  In countries like Australia and the US, that should be more obvious than elsewhere.
And many who do not like their sex have surgery. It doesn't change reality.
[/quote]

No, just like plastic surgery doesn't change race, the tragedy of Michael Jackson.
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« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2008, 01:23:32 PM »

Why is there "black pride," "Asian pride," "Indian pride," "Latin pride," etc.? If "white pride" is intolerable, can we please stop the double-standard, and end every kind of racial pride? No racial group is inherently better than another.
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« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2008, 01:29:04 PM »

 Roll Eyes

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« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2008, 01:38:19 PM »

Why is there "black pride," "Asian pride," "Indian pride," "Latin pride," etc.? If "white pride" is intolerable, can we please stop the double-standard, and end every kind of racial pride? No racial group is inherently better than another.

Acolyte, please re-read what I wrote about the differences in the prides. It is the context that is different. There is no double standard because most browns and blacks don't go think their race should be elevated above all others, as whites often do. What THEY want are equal rights and equal opportunities, without being separate.
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« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2008, 01:58:31 PM »

The problem with the term "white pride" is that it has a troublesome history.  It's been used in a nasty way by some very nasty groups.  Therefore the term is loaded with racist connotations.

If the term did not have such a history, people probably wouldn't have such a bad feeling about it.  There is nothing wrong with people being proud with whatever good their ancestors have done.  You just have to be careful about the terminology you use to describe your feelings of pride, so you don't come off sounding racist.
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« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2008, 02:03:33 PM »

One has to remember that "Indian Pride" in particular is a reactionary to those that "passed" for white in the past. So the point is to be proud of being indian now, where others in the past were ashamed of it.

I think white pride is a problem. But white guilt is obnoxious. There has to be a middle ground between white pride and guilt.
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« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2008, 04:00:49 PM »

I finished what I was writing earlier...

While the majority of white Americans consider themselves part of a distinct cultural group that is worth preserving, the term "white pride" is never used without the connotation of racial hatred. Yet the world is in debt to our achievements in the arts, science, philosophy, government, technology, and business. Modern civilization is in many ways built on what white people have contributed. For whatever reason, the world has chosen to emulate us.

While we don't deserve to be worshiped as some absurd "super race," neither should we be viewed as nothing more than an oppressor. At certain times in history, whites have been the victims of racial hatred, and seeing us solely as the perpetrator will blind one to this fact. While they don't teach you about the Greek and Armenian genocides in our politically correct school system, that doesn't mean they didn't occur.

With the declining birth rate, rejection of tradition, and open immigration of Western European countries, what we've learned of as Europe may not exist in the future. White civilization is committing cultural suicide, and those in the political and academic elites are cheering it on. We became the world's dominant group, only to be taught that the religion which served as our bedrock is a lie. (Mark 8:36)

If "white pride" is intolerable, can we please stop the double-standard, and end every kind of racial and ethnic pride? The celebration of diversity on our college campuses, to the exclusion of white culture, is inherently racist. Is it any wonder that "white-bread" means the absence of culture? As Ayn Rand wrote, "Racism is the lowest, most crudely primitive form of collectivism." I've never met anyone more racist than a white academic liberal.

Did you know that my people, Greek people, were under slavery for hundreds of years? Where's my Jesse Jacksonopoulos to blame all of my problems on Turkish oppression and Turkish privilege? Where's my Bill and Melinda Gates scholarship? Why was Michael Dukakis not praised for being the first Greek-American presidential candidate? Why did quotas prevent us from becoming American citizens? Why "Free Tibet" but not "Free Constantinople"? Why am I not allowed to play the victim card?

Why is my history invisible to you? Because I am white and all white people are the same. While I have no use for "white pride," I reject the equally reactionary "white guilt" and encourage you to do the same. To academia, Anglo-Saxons comprise the entirety of white people, and anyone born with white skin must feel ashamed for someone else's sins. It takes simple logic to see through the hypocrisy.
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« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2008, 04:00:54 PM »

Who is to say that the Irish and Italians have any kind of shared history, just because of their geographic proximity and roughly similar physical characteristics?

What Irish and Italians share, or at least once shared, is a common civilization, based on Christianity and the Roman legal system.
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« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2008, 04:08:18 PM »

There is nothing wrong with British pride, Irish pride, scotish pride, Welse pride, English pride, French pride, Spanish pride, Polish pride, German pride.......ect.
Sure there is: pride. There is nothing wrong, of course, with valuing one's heritage, but it is always a bad thing to believe one's own ethnicity is greater than others'.

I agree. Pride is a sin. It's also a sinful passion. If we do not rid ourselves of such passions, we risk eternal hell.

Also, really, what's "white?" Quite a lot of people who live in the Indostan peninsula, especially those who are of the Dravidic origin (mostly from the South of India) are, technically speaking, Caucasians, but the color of their skin is a lot darker than the color of some African Americans...

And another thing: the real "European" culture hardly even existed before the Crusades... It shaped into its present form when silk and tea came from China, "Arabic" numbers from India, the custom of washing hands and face from the Middle East...
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« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2008, 04:18:33 PM »

If, for instance, you don't value your wife over all other women, how is she your wife?
If, for instance, you don't value your chidren over all others, how are they yours?
I think you're confusing love with "value above".

If you don't value your own culture/etnicity/etc. above another, how is it yours? 
Culture/ethnicity/etc are abstractions. They are not "things" in themselves, and we can't actually "own" them.
"My" culture and "my" ethnicity are, for the most part, an accident of birth. There is absolutely no logic in "valuing them above" different cultures/ethnicities/etc. It's not as if I created them and are responsible for them. While I can value them (or not value them), it makes no sense to value them above other culture/ethnicities etc, and doing so does not make them any more "mine"- so I don't understand your point that:
Uh, that's how it's YOURS. Duh.


Not to choose is to choose.
What choice does anyone have about their ethnicity or the culture in which they live? They may have a choice about subcultures, and they may have a choice about where they live, but ethnicity is the ethnic group into which one is born and culture is a set of social symbolic interactions, so neither of them are actually choices we can make as individuals.

Many who don't like theirs, go for another.  In countries like Australia and the US, that should be more obvious than elsewhere.
"Liking" something or having a preference for something does not necessarily mean we devalue everything else. If we devalue other ethnicities below our own, it means we can exploit that ethnicity.This is what happened with the enslavement of Africans. Those of European ethnicity valued European ethnicity above African ethnicities, and the logical conclusion was that those those of African ethnicities should be subservient to those of European ethnicities.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2008, 04:24:04 PM by ozgeorge » Logged

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« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2008, 04:47:19 PM »

Pride is a sin. It's also a sinful passion.

Pride -
a becoming or dignified sense of what is due to oneself or one's position or character; self-respect; self-esteem.

According to Aristotle, pride is the healthy middle between self-hatred and narcissism. If I reject ethnic pride, it's because one should only have pride in his own personal achievements, not someone else's.
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« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2008, 04:47:20 PM »

For whatever reason, "modernization" and "Westernization" are synonymous. Is that not something to feel good about?
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« Reply #30 on: September 27, 2008, 05:01:19 PM »

Just coming in to add this...

"The Seven Grievous Sins" (according to "A Pocket Prayer Book for Orthodox Christians")
Quote
1. Pride: The lack of humility befitting a creature of God.

Leaving the discussion now...
« Last Edit: September 27, 2008, 05:01:39 PM by 88Devin12 » Logged
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« Reply #31 on: September 27, 2008, 05:06:22 PM »

Just coming in to add this...

"The Seven Grievous Sins" (according to "A Pocket Prayer Book for Orthodox Christians")
Quote
1. Pride: The lack of humility befitting a creature of God.

Leaving the discussion now...

There is more than one definition of the term. Is self-esteem a sin?
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« Reply #32 on: September 27, 2008, 05:13:21 PM »

Just coming in to add this...

"The Seven Grievous Sins" (according to "A Pocket Prayer Book for Orthodox Christians")
Quote
1. Pride: The lack of humility befitting a creature of God.

Leaving the discussion now...

I'll never forget the 20 minute homily I had the misfortune of sitting through at the GOA Cathedral in Phoenix.  The entire 'sermon' consisted of a monologue extolling the  virtues of being ethnically Greek and the superiority of Greek culture.  In the entire 20 minute litany of praise for all things Greek, Christ was not mentioned once except when the priest stated that if given the choice, Christ would doubtless have chosen to be born of Greek parents.  Afterwards, the friend interested in converting who attended with me shrugged, told me he wasn't Greek, and has never darkened the door of another Orthodox church.
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« Reply #33 on: September 27, 2008, 05:19:03 PM »

And another thing: the real "European" culture hardly even existed before the Crusades... It shaped into its present form when silk and tea came from China, "Arabic" numbers from India, the custom of washing hands and face from the Middle East...

Western civilization, for all practical purposes, was born in ancient Greece, and was baptized under Constantine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_culture
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« Reply #34 on: September 27, 2008, 05:19:04 PM »

Just coming in to add this...

"The Seven Grievous Sins" (according to "A Pocket Prayer Book for Orthodox Christians")
Quote
1. Pride: The lack of humility befitting a creature of God.

Leaving the discussion now...

I'll never forget the 20 homily I had the misfortune of sitting through at the GOA Cathedral in Phoenix.  The entire 'sermon' consisted of a monologue extolling the  virtues of being ethnically Greek and the superiority of Greek culture.  In the entire 20 minute litany of praise for all things Greek, Christ was not mentioned once.  Afterwards, the friend interested in converting who attended with me shrugged, told me he wasn't Greek, and has never darkened the door of another Orthodox church.


As I said, there's a difference between self-esteem and narcissism.
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« Reply #35 on: September 27, 2008, 06:21:13 PM »

Acolyte, I hope you realize that the Byzantine Empire wasn't an ideal Christian empire.

The world doesn't owe anything to "us" whites... In fact, I would be willing to say, that we are responsible for many of the poor families living in poverty and crime in the inner cities. White flight is not just something that occurred 40-60 years ago, and it isn't just something that only caused harm at the time. It is something that has had long reaching effects and has harmed us (everyone, including the whites are harmed) even today.

The statement of "the whole world has much to owe to the white race" is pretty much the opposite of a humble attitude.

You claim to accept Ayn Rand, but she was strongly individualistic and believed that pursuing self-interest is completely rational... Completely contrary to Christian ideas. (that is, all Christians, not just Orthodox values) Not to mention Ayn Rand is anti-religion, other than the exaltation and worship of one's self.

We are called to be in this world but not of it... I believe that includes the American way of life and American way of thinking.

Yes love your country and love your culture (that is, the parts which aren't contradictory of Christianity), but in my view, pride for yourself, pride for your country, pride for your culture is not entirely healthy and oftentimes isn't Christian.

You also say there are multiple definitions of pride, yes, but IMO, that doesn't really matter, because there are many sins out there which aren't defined in a negative way and are toned down whether intentionally or not.
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« Reply #36 on: September 27, 2008, 07:15:22 PM »

There is a difference between selfishness and what Ayn Rand termed "rational self-interest," which is based on the philosophy of Aristotle. I've explained it previously on this forum. The world is in debt to Western civilization in how they've employed our inventions, our developments, to their benefit.
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« Reply #37 on: September 27, 2008, 07:45:03 PM »

The world is in debt to Our Lord, God and Saviour Jesus Christ, from whom every good gift, every perfect gift comes, alone. 
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« Reply #38 on: September 27, 2008, 08:01:30 PM »

I finished what I was writing earlier...

While the majority of white Americans consider themselves part of a distinct cultural group that is worth preserving, the term "white pride" is never used without the connotation of racial hatred. Yet the world is in debt to our achievements in the arts, science, philosophy, government, technology, and business. Modern civilization is in many ways built on what white people have contributed. For whatever reason, the world has chosen to emulate us.

While we don't deserve to be worshiped as some absurd "super race," neither should we be viewed as nothing more than an oppressor. At certain times in history, whites have been the victims of racial hatred, and seeing us solely as the perpetrator will blind one to this fact. While they don't teach you about the Greek and Armenian genocides in our politically correct school system, that doesn't mean they didn't occur.

With the declining birth rate, rejection of tradition, and open immigration of Western European countries, what we've learned of as Europe may not exist in the future. White civilization is committing cultural suicide, and those in the political and academic elites are cheering it on. We became the world's dominant group, only to be taught that the religion which served as our bedrock is a lie. (Mark 8:36)

If "white pride" is intolerable, can we please stop the double-standard, and end every kind of racial and ethnic pride? The celebration of diversity on our college campuses, to the exclusion of white culture, is inherently racist. Is it any wonder that "white-bread" means the absence of culture? As Ayn Rand wrote, "Racism is the lowest, most crudely primitive form of collectivism." I've never met anyone more racist than a white academic liberal.

Did you know that my people, Greek people, were under slavery for hundreds of years? Where's my Jesse Jacksonopoulos to blame all of my problems on Turkish oppression and Turkish privilege? Where's my Bill and Melinda Gates scholarship? Why was Michael Dukakis not praised for being the first Greek-American presidential candidate? Why did quotas prevent us from becoming American citizens? Why "Free Tibet" but not "Free Constantinople"? Why am I not allowed to play the victim card?

Why is my history invisible to you? Because I am white and all white people are the same. While I have no use for "white pride," I reject the equally reactionary "white guilt" and encourage you to do the same. To academia, Anglo-Saxons comprise the entirety of white people, and anyone born with white skin must feel ashamed for someone else's sins. It takes simple logic to see through the hypocrisy.

I don't know if you realize this point but eastern european immigrants were not always considered part of the white race by American citizens. Greek immigrants who moved to the south (U.S.) were lumped together with African-Americans for a time. 

http://www.understandingrace.org/history/gov/eastern_southern_immigration.html

Discriminatory immigration policies aimed at southern and eastern Europeans figured into the quota-based policies of the 1920s. With the passage of the Immigration Act of 1924, also known as the National Origins Act or Johnson-Reed Act, the U.S. used restrictive immigration policies in the 1920s based on the 1890 proportions of foreign-born European nationalities. Since the 1890 census reflected higher numbers of northern Europeans, immigrants from those countries had greater opportunities to emigrate. The arguments, outlined in Madison Grant's 1916 book The Passing of a Great Race, held that older immigrants were skilled, thrifty, hardworking like native born Americans and recent immigrants from southern and eastern Europe were unskilled, ignorant, predominantly Catholic or Jewish and not easily assimilated into American culture. Madison Grant and Charles Davenport, among other eugenicists, were called in as expert advisers on the threat of "inferior stock" from eastern and southern Europe, playing a critical role as Congress debated the Immigration Act of 1924. The act attempted to control the number of "unfit" individuals entering the country by lowering the number of immigrants allowed in to fifteen percent of what it had been previously. Existing laws prohibiting race mixing were strengthened as well. The adoption of incest laws and many anti-miscegenation laws were also influenced by the premises of eugenics.
Gradually, southern Europeans were included in the white category over the next census decades.

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« Reply #39 on: September 27, 2008, 08:10:02 PM »

In the entire 20 minute litany of praise for all things Greek, Christ was not mentioned once except when the priest stated that if given the choice, Christ would doubtless have chosen to be born of Greek parents.  

ERK!!  ACK!! Shocked Huh

Oh would He?!??

I'm sorry, but would that count as ..errmm... Presumptuous to say?

This Anglican believes that God knows what He's doing, thanks.

I'm still wide-eyed over this one.

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« Reply #40 on: September 27, 2008, 08:12:29 PM »

Western civilization, for all practical purposes, was born in ancient Greece, and was baptized under Constantine.

I think that there would be some Anglo-Saxons and Norse and Irish who had some civilization of their own and would have disagreed with that, thanks.   Undecided

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« Reply #41 on: September 27, 2008, 08:16:27 PM »

I do wonder when this will be moved to politics so people can say what they really mean Roll Eyes
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« Reply #42 on: September 27, 2008, 08:16:35 PM »

It is hard to deny the contribution the descendants of the Indo-european tribe have made to this word (while not all indo-europeans are technically 'white' and not all 'whites' are indo-european, it is certainly a more meaningful lable than 'white')...from the Persians to the Greeks to the Romans to the Germans to the Vikings to the Anglo-Saxons...and many other descendants of that great tribe of men, to numerous to name. But of what use is an ethnic pride in our ancestors? We have inherited their DNA...that should be enough...genetics stands independent of culture, custom, or political correctness.

Because of this I disagree with your grim assessment of the future of the indo-european peoples. The Persians were conquered by barbarian tribes nearly a millenium and a half ago, yet Farsi remains the official language of Iran to this day...the force and influence of indo-european culture cannot be easily undermined on account of its natural superiority to other forms of culture and custom, even in conquest and subjection it remains.

Likewise, the influx of foreign people into the lands of the indo-europeans will not lead to a destruction of the indo-european cultures but rather to a conversion of these people to the culture of the indo-europeans as has been seen through the civilizing influence of the British, French, Dutch, Spanish, etc. Empires around the world. If your culture and people truly have something to offer the world, you don't need to proclaim it and try to convince everyone of it...they will naturally embrace it...an insistence on ethnic pride is a sign of weakness not strength, that which is truly great does not seek vindication in the eyes of others.
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« Reply #43 on: September 27, 2008, 08:19:03 PM »

What Irish and Italians share, or at least once shared, is a common civilization, based on Christianity and the Roman legal system.

The Irish had a legal system and code of laws that was not based on any thing Roman, the Brehon Law.
Here is a bit about it: http://www.alia.ie/tirnanog/sochis/iv.html

And I submit that there may have been some elements that over time were similar or related, but there are plenty of things that are particular to each culture.

Ebor
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« Reply #44 on: September 27, 2008, 08:24:50 PM »

I do wonder when this will be moved to politics so people can say what they really mean Roll Eyes

So far, this has been a discussion about ethnicity, culture, and their relationship to pride.  Thus far, I've seen nothing to justify moving the thread to Politics.  If this becomes a discussion about such in relation to politics or political issues, the appropriate posts will be split and sent to Politics.
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