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Offline ComingHome

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Most Idiotic Article Ever
« on: September 25, 2008, 11:49:43 PM »
Having been a Fundamentalist Protestant for most of my life, I thought I had ready every idiotic thing that could possilby be said or written about King James Onlyism.  But today I read an article that topped them all.  For sheer stupidity this article takes the cake.  If there is an award for ignorance this website in general and this article in particular have my vote.

http://www.biblebelievers.com/believers-org/counterfeit-kjv.html
« Last Edit: September 25, 2008, 11:50:44 PM by ComingHome »

Offline LBK

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Re: Most Idiotic Article Ever
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2008, 12:45:32 AM »
Quote
These are just minor changes in spelling.  Well maybe they are, but have you never read "a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?"  You see I believe God wrote the Bible through sinful men.  I believe God copied the Bible through sinful men.  I believe God translated the Bible through sinful men, and I believe God edited (purified) the Bible through sinful men.  So therefore I believe God gave us the exact words in the exact order He wanted us to have them in.  If that's the case then He spelled the words exactly the way He wanted to spell them, and gave them to us in a pure language, and that language is the standard text of the King James Bible.

Well, then, I guess the Apostles who wrote the Gospels and Epistles in Greek got it all wrong....  :o

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Offline Schultz

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Re: Most Idiotic Article Ever
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2008, 12:50:18 AM »
I don't think the author is saying that at all, as he specifically wrote that "God translated the Bible through sinful men".  In other words, in the author's eyes, the KJV is a "divinely inspired" translation.

Regardless, it's definitely a funny article, although the author surely did not intend it to be.
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Offline Riddikulus

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Re: Most Idiotic Article Ever
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2008, 03:58:27 AM »
From the article;

The seven-letter Saviour is the only begotten Son of God, the Lord Jesus Christ.  The six-letter Savior is the son of perdition, the anti christ. He wants to be like the most High (Isaiah 14:14,) but not in a good way, but in an evil way.  He is not a follower.  He's a counterfeiter.  Therefore his final destination is the lake of fire.  The new versions, along with the new age movement, and some of the King James Bible counterfeits are preparing the way for this six-letter so called Savior. That's the way he will spell his name, S-a-v-i-o-r not S-a-v-i-o-u-r.   No thank you Satan.  I'm sticking with the seven-letter Saviour as portrayed in the old black Book that I inherited from my forefathers.

While I've complained about American spelling in the past, I didn't realise it was satanic.  :laugh:

« Last Edit: September 26, 2008, 03:59:20 AM by Riddikulus »
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Re: Most Idiotic Article Ever
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2008, 07:23:56 AM »
While I've complained about American spelling in the past, I didn't realise it was satanic.  :laugh:
Such an abuse of the Queen's English must be diabolical. ;)
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Offline ytterbiumanalyst

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Re: Most Idiotic Article Ever
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2008, 07:35:42 AM »
Wow.

Just wow.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Most Idiotic Article Ever
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2008, 08:17:23 AM »
While I've complained about American spelling in the past, I didn't realise it was satanic.  :laugh:
Such an abuse of the Queen's English must be diabolical. ;)
From an Aussie, that's rich.
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Offline Riddikulus

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Re: Most Idiotic Article Ever
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2008, 08:37:03 AM »
While I've complained about American spelling in the past, I didn't realise it was satanic.  :laugh:
Such an abuse of the Queen's English must be diabolical. ;)

 :laugh:
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Offline ComingHome

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Re: Most Idiotic Article Ever
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2008, 08:59:56 AM »
The quote cited by Riddikulus has got to be my favorite!  And I have to second what ytterbiumanalyst had to say:  WOW! 

I was in shock that such ignorance is actually out there and saddened that by many it is taken seriously. ::) :'(

Offline Anastasios

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Re: Most Idiotic Article Ever
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2008, 11:33:02 AM »
From the article;

The seven-letter Saviour is the only begotten Son of God, the Lord Jesus Christ.  The six-letter Savior is the son of perdition, the anti christ. He wants to be like the most High (Isaiah 14:14,) but not in a good way, but in an evil way.  He is not a follower.  He's a counterfeiter.  Therefore his final destination is the lake of fire.  The new versions, along with the new age movement, and some of the King James Bible counterfeits are preparing the way for this six-letter so called Savior. That's the way he will spell his name, S-a-v-i-o-r not S-a-v-i-o-u-r.   No thank you Satan.  I'm sticking with the seven-letter Saviour as portrayed in the old black Book that I inherited from my forefathers.

While I've complained about American spelling in the past, I didn't realise it was satanic.  :laugh:



At least he is a traditionalist....just the wrong tradition ;)
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Offline FrChris

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Re: Most Idiotic Article Ever
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2008, 11:43:59 AM »
This is all coming back to me, like a very bad dream....

When I was in Birmingham, I would work with the OCF chapter in Tuscaloosa.

The article's author is based in Tuscaloosa, and his site has this interesting excerpt:

Quote
Who Are The Believers?

The Believers is an organization founded by 36 men November 19, 1973 in Tuscaloosa County, Alabama, USA.  We are organized on the common belief that the King James Bible is the one and only absolute, pure word of God.  Therefore we are against any other book or manuscript replacing the King James Bible as the final written authority.

I remember arguing with a person there who insisted that the Bible should not be looked at in the Greek for the meanings of words and exegesis, but that until God directed that the Bible be placed in the KJV, it was not 'reliable'.

Therefore, he was arguing that Scripture was defective until 1611.

He really hated it when I brought up that Martin Luther had a defective version of the Bible, then, and that any doctrine of Sola Scriptura must also be considered 'defective' having been drawn from a version of the Bible that had not yet been perfected.

Eventually he left me alone. I wonder if he was one of this 'Believers' group?
« Last Edit: September 26, 2008, 11:44:47 AM by FrChris »
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Offline Ebor

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Re: Most Idiotic Article Ever
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2008, 01:18:58 PM »
The line at the end of the article about Stuart era English being a "pure language" is one that causes the pinching of the bridge of the nose and the shaking of the head while sighing.  Unfortuntely, this isn't the first time I've come across that idea. There was a preacher on the Northern Virginia Christian radio station some years ago that said the same thing.  (he had some other doozies including "If today were the Day of the Lord (meaning the Last Day) wouldn't that make today extra special"  <ERK>  I give oath that I am NOT making that up.)

Could they even define what a 'pure' language is?  And then how would it fit in the line of how it developed, changing over time and then changing more in future years?  And what about different dialects at the same time? The English PH.D that I know would probably laugh hysterically.

sigh

Ebor
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Most Idiotic Article Ever
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2008, 01:39:50 PM »
"If the King James Version was good enough for Paul and Silas, then it's good enough for me."

LMAO! :laugh:
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Offline EofK

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Re: Most Idiotic Article Ever
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2008, 01:53:00 PM »
Hoo boy.

KJV, published 1611.
English spelling standardization, mid-1700's. 

Do the math.

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Offline Heorhij

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Re: Most Idiotic Article Ever
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2008, 02:24:27 PM »
Quote
These are just minor changes in spelling.  Well maybe they are, but have you never read "a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?"  You see I believe God wrote the Bible through sinful men.  I believe God copied the Bible through sinful men.  I believe God translated the Bible through sinful men, and I believe God edited (purified) the Bible through sinful men.  So therefore I believe God gave us the exact words in the exact order He wanted us to have them in.  If that's the case then He spelled the words exactly the way He wanted to spell them, and gave them to us in a pure language, and that language is the standard text of the King James Bible.

Well, then, I guess the Apostles who wrote the Gospels and Epistles in Greek got it all wrong....  :o



This reminds me of some opponents of the autocephaly of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church who say that the liturgical Ukrainian language does not exist, and that people like Prof. Ivan Ohienko (a.k.a. Metropolitan Illarion) were so wrong when they translated the original Hebrew and Greek scriptures directly into the modern vernacular Ukrainian, instead of the "sacred" Old Church Slavonic...
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Offline Rosehip

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Re: Most Idiotic Article Ever
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2008, 07:39:31 PM »
"If the King James Version was good enough for Paul and Silas, then it's good enough for me."

LMAO! :laugh:

thank goodness for some much-needed humor...
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Offline prodromas

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Re: Most Idiotic Article Ever
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2008, 03:21:58 AM »
"If the King James Version was good enough for Paul and Silas, then it's good enough for me."

LMAO! :laugh:

lol as my evangelical Anglican freind currently in seminary joked to me, "Don't you realise the Greek was just the draft papers for the KJV"
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Offline Salpy

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Re: Most Idiotic Article Ever
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2008, 03:11:30 PM »
I run my church's bookstore and I've had many bizarre requests from people.  Among the strangest, though, have been requests for an Armenian translation of the King James Bible.  I've only had a couple of such requests from people who obviously have been influenced by certain non-Orthodox groups, but it amazes me that people would actually think that the Armenians would go to the trouble of making such a translation.  Is the KJV now supposed to be on the same level as the Septuagint, or do people think it is something higher?

Offline Ebor

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Re: Most Idiotic Article Ever
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2008, 08:36:38 PM »
For those who would like to know the history of how the KJV came to be, I can recommend God's Secretaries by Adam Nicolson. 

Ebor
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Offline Quinault

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Re: Most Idiotic Article Ever
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2008, 01:11:32 AM »
My parents have gone thru every protestant doctrinal fad and I recall them going thru the KJ one. I am happy my brothers and I were able to keep them from burning all the "heretical" non-KJ versions. They grew out of that fad within a couple years. ::)

Offline observer

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Re: Most Idiotic Article Ever
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2008, 01:30:00 AM »
I've just spotted it :D  -  It's not the King James but St James Bible, written in Jerusalem around 50 A.D
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Offline sedan

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Re: Most Idiotic Article Ever
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2008, 05:06:35 PM »
Hello all, coming from a denomination that has in it's ministry manual an article for KJV use only, and while most do, though some use the newkjv, I was of the KJV only camp for some time, until I realized that English is only, at best 750 years old, obviously not what Paul and Silas had as scripture. These KJVOnlyers forget that the Bible that Paul quoted most from was the Septuagint, just look at the referances of Hebrews 1:6 with it's cross referance, Deut. 32:43, obviously the LXX was used. Why? Because the Greek language was popular? No, I believe that God used the Septuagint as the Bible of the early church, as the Church today should be using it. Thank God that there is a translation in use, the Orthodox Study Bible, correct? I will be getting one soon, money is always an issue with me. But it is relativly cheap from CBD. Anyway, what does all this mean? Trust the ancient churches for their experience and wisdom. Just look at all the "doctrinal" things out there, some even claim our Lord was a millionaire, and use His seemless garment as proof. ??? God forgive us who are mislead! :'( My answer to those who would cla such for the KJV, pray, pray, and pray, until God shows you. Don't let doctrinal history cloud doctrinal truth. You will forgive me for my empassioned words, please brothers, I am tired of running from the truth!
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Offline ytterbiumanalyst

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Re: Most Idiotic Article Ever
« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2008, 05:10:41 PM »
You are absolutely correct in this. Although the KJV is superior to other English translations, especially the NIV, it itself pales in comparison to the Septuagint for accuracy, clarity, and beauty (and that's something coming from a lover of Elizabethan speech). The Orthodox Study Bible is translated from the Septuagint, although it is an Old Testament only (the New Testament is the NKJV text). I have heard, however, that there is a project to make a new Orthodox translation of the New Testament from the Septuagint as well.
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Offline Keble

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Re: Most Idiotic Article Ever
« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2008, 06:45:53 PM »
I'm amused at their preference for the 1769 Oxford version, as though the codifiers hadn't introduced a few mistakes of their own. The early printing history of KJV is either hilarious or depressing, depending on your point of view. I am particularly fond of the edition that changed "princes have persecuted me without cause" to "printers have persecuted me without cause."

Offline LBK

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Re: Most Idiotic Article Ever
« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2008, 07:11:26 PM »
Quote
I have heard, however, that there is a project to make a new Orthodox translation of the New Testament from the Septuagint as well.
Ummm, Mr Y, the Septuagint is the Greek Old Testament. Perhaps you meant "a new Orthodox translation from the original Greek texts". Pardon my pedantry.  :P
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Offline LBK

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Re: Most Idiotic Article Ever
« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2008, 07:15:04 PM »
I am particularly fond of the edition that changed "princes have persecuted me without cause" to "printers have persecuted me without cause."

Too funny!! Political correctness obviously is not merely a product of our present age....  :D
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Offline ytterbiumanalyst

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Re: Most Idiotic Article Ever
« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2008, 07:48:25 PM »
Quote
I have heard, however, that there is a project to make a new Orthodox translation of the New Testament from the Septuagint as well.
Ummm, Mr Y, the Septuagint is the Greek Old Testament. Perhaps you meant "a new Orthodox translation from the original Greek texts". Pardon my pedantry.  :P
Yes, that's what I meant.
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Offline recent convert

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Re: Most Idiotic Article Ever
« Reply #27 on: September 30, 2008, 08:12:41 AM »
How do KJV only "Bible believers" justify the removal of the so called "Apocrypha" from the KJV Bible? My grandparents (maternal side) had an old KJV from the mid 19th century which included the "Apocrypha" (I have not seen this book for years). Of course, Protestants have always regarded these books as suspect but years later I bought a separate KJV APOCRYPHA from Cambridge Univ Press which has the original charge of His Majesty's command: "Appointed to be read in churches." Would not these books have also been good for Paul and Silas?
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Offline sedan

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Re: Most Idiotic Article Ever
« Reply #28 on: September 30, 2008, 05:44:07 PM »
Hello Recent Convert, perhaps this will help. Historically, the KJV Bible was first printed in 1611, at the command of King James the First, for use in the Church of England and not for anything else than to appease the Church of England who wanted a new translation that wasn't so calvinistic as the Geneva, and the Roman Catholics in England, because James wife was a Spanish Catholic. The reason now they reject the "Appocrypha"  is that there is of course historical endorsment for them from the Fathers, who did quote from them, regardless of what they say, I've read them. And as they claim "the Bible alone" as one of their tennets of faith, cheerfully shred anything else, even if it agrees with them, case in point, the rapture and dispensationalism date from 1830, by John Nelson Darby, they attempt to place it with the Fathers, using vague and patchy syntax, at least in the mid-1800's, now they completly diregard it because better scholarship appeared of the Fathers, and since these doctrines are so well entrenched, people now beileve that they have always existed.They forget that the Anabaptists in thier early works quoted from the "Appocrypha" for doctrinal purposes, and that the only reason for there inclusion in the KJV origanil version was politically motivated, and to kept James' wife from causing a stir. However, today the protestants(of whom my denomination is included, no matter what they think) claim Jerome included them in his Vulgate, against his better judgement, since the Hebrew is more "original" than th Septuagint, they prefer to use that. So many of the KJVonlyer's really either don't know, or completly sidestep this issue, especailly of the Septuagint being used almost exclusivly by the early Church, they've even "found" or "discovered", documents dateing back to the 2nd centuary a.d. conclusivly proving that the KJV Bible was actually the one used then, just as we have it now. I think the link is in "the KJV store".com, but I'm not sure, I read this in a hard copy, and since I usually take KJVer's with a grain of salt, haven't looked further. Historically, the Bible we have as the KJV dates MSS from the 9th or 10th centurary, and at best only fair to good in there quality. This was not the fault of the translators, they also had some very strict and cramped rules that James required, they did the best they could, and not a single one, I'm sure, felt that they had a divine translation, just the God Directed work of translating. The lack of quotes from the "Appocryphal" books in the N.T. doesn't disallow the inclusion in the O.T. books, as Jude quotes from the Appocryphal work, the Book of Enoch, and no one in the KJVonlyer's camp seems to have a problem with it. This is coming from one who had many questions, when I first got "saved" since I didn't grow up in any church, and researched it completly, I was told that faith would be better, so don't study too hard??????????
I hope this helps.
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Offline ComingHome

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Re: Most Idiotic Article Ever
« Reply #29 on: September 30, 2008, 06:54:29 PM »
I have to guess that you are not the most popular person, Sedan, in the Church of which you are a part.  Oh, well--we can't all be popular.  ;) :) :o ::)

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Re: Most Idiotic Article Ever
« Reply #30 on: September 30, 2008, 09:30:18 PM »
Actually I'm not very popular. I tend to teach, as they say, the Spirit leads me, unfortuantly(?) for them I often teach what is contrary to thier beliefs. All too often we like preachers so long as they tickle our ears, I have yet to do that, but because of my position, they can not deny me a place in the pulpit, unless the Senior Pastor bars me from the pulpit. I'm sure this is comming.
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Offline Ebor

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Re: Most Idiotic Article Ever
« Reply #31 on: October 02, 2008, 10:10:50 AM »
I am particularly fond of the edition that changed "princes have persecuted me without cause" to "printers have persecuted me without cause."

Too funny!! Political correctness obviously is not merely a product of our present age....  :D

I thought it was tyops... oops that's Typos that are not merely a product of our present age.   ;) ;D

Ebor
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Offline BrotherAidan

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Re: Most Idiotic Article Ever
« Reply #32 on: October 03, 2008, 12:06:00 AM »

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Most Idiotic Article Ever
« Reply #33 on: April 08, 2012, 04:57:26 AM »
I am particularly fond of the edition that changed "princes have persecuted me without cause" to "printers have persecuted me without cause."

 :D  :D  :D
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Offline mark thomas

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Re: Most Idiotic Article Ever
« Reply #34 on: April 08, 2012, 07:38:28 AM »
I was laughing at his spelling of "publick" in the article. I kept hearing Ron White's voice - "Drunk in Public" - in my my mind!
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Offline Jason.Wike

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Re: Most Idiotic Article Ever
« Reply #35 on: April 08, 2012, 01:09:44 PM »
I've read where people actually think the imprimatur from the King for the KJV to be used in churches is actually some kind of divine mandate... People are crazy.

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Most Idiotic Article Ever
« Reply #36 on: April 08, 2012, 01:23:23 PM »
This is the sorta thought I grew up with.

The thing is. There is more right to it than wrong.

But to attempt to make that make sense would be to depart from its truth.
Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.

Offline Agabus

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Re: Most Idiotic Article Ever
« Reply #37 on: April 08, 2012, 01:26:46 PM »
I've read where people actually think the imprimatur from the King for the KJV to be used in churches is actually some kind of divine mandate... People are crazy.
Yes, if you look around the Net you will find those who insist on calling it the "Authorized Version" not because that is its proper name but because that gives it weight.

When I am in the habit of reading the Bible, the King Jimmy is my preferred, because it is the language of my childhood and it sounds like I think the Bible should sound.
Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Most Idiotic Article Ever
« Reply #38 on: April 08, 2012, 01:44:56 PM »
I've read where people actually think the imprimatur from the King for the KJV to be used in churches is actually some kind of divine mandate... People are crazy.
Yes, if you look around the Net you will find those who insist on calling it the "Authorized Version" not because that is its proper name but because that gives it weight.

When I am in the habit of reading the Bible, the King Jimmy is my preferred, because it is the language of my childhood and it sounds like I think the Bible should sound.

You must get a copy of The Message. I promise you won't be disappointed.

Internetting it just ain't the same as a real copy.

All kidding aside, it is sometimes quite insightful and eye opening, when not offering much time for laughter. But what else would you expect from a single person driven dynamic literal translation.

Quote
With a God like this loving you, you can pray very simply. Like this:
Our Father in heaven,
Reveal who you are.
Set the world right;
Do what's best— as above, so below.
Keep us alive with three square meals.
Keep us forgiven with you and forgiving others.
Keep us safe from ourselves and the Devil.
You're in charge!
You can do anything you want!
You're ablaze in beauty!
Yes. Yes. Yes.
Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.

Offline biro

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Re: Most Idiotic Article Ever
« Reply #39 on: April 08, 2012, 03:14:18 PM »
Please tell me that passage wasn't real.
He will come again with glory to judge the living and the dead. His kingdom will have no end.

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Offline dzheremi

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Re: Most Idiotic Article Ever
« Reply #40 on: April 08, 2012, 03:35:07 PM »
You must get a copy of The Message. I promise you won't be disappointed.

Thank you so much for this, Orthonorm. I had no idea this thing existed. It is instantly my favorite thing ever published in the history of...words. It's like having a Barney Fife reinterpret the Bible. Amazing.

John 3:16-18, Message Version:

"This is how much God loved the world: He gave his Son, his one and only Son. And this is why: so that no one need be destroyed; by believing in him, anyone can have a whole and lasting life. God didn't go to all the trouble of sending his Son merely to point an accusing finger, telling the world how bad it was. He came to help, to put the world right again. Anyone who trusts in him is acquitted; anyone who refuses to trust him has long since been under the death sentence without knowing it. And why? Because of that person's failure to believe in the one-of-a-kind Son of God when introduced to him."

Jesus Christ: He's one-of-a-kind!

Offline Jason.Wike

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Re: Most Idiotic Article Ever
« Reply #41 on: April 08, 2012, 08:41:21 PM »
Quote
With a God like this loving you, you can pray very simply. Like this:
Our Father in heaven,
Reveal who you are.
Set the world right;
Do what's best— as above, so below.
Keep us alive with three square meals.
Keep us forgiven with you and forgiving others.
Keep us safe from ourselves and the Devil.
You're in charge!
You can do anything you want!
You're ablaze in beauty!
Yes. Yes. Yes.

Sounds like a pep talk for God... "You can do anything you want!"? Really, I think God is well aware of that...

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Most Idiotic Article Ever
« Reply #42 on: April 08, 2012, 08:53:05 PM »
Quote
With a God like this loving you, you can pray very simply. Like this:
Our Father in heaven,
Reveal who you are.
Set the world right;
Do what's best— as above, so below.
Keep us alive with three square meals.
Keep us forgiven with you and forgiving others.
Keep us safe from ourselves and the Devil.
You're in charge!
You can do anything you want!
You're ablaze in beauty!
Yes. Yes. Yes.

Sounds like a pep talk for God... "You can do anything you want!"? Really, I think God is well aware of that...

To be fair, we do that all the time: I believe in one God, the Father [fill in the blank]. To point out a trivial case.

I sorta like:

Quote
Our Father in heaven,
Reveal who you are.
. . .
You can do anything you want!
You're ablaze in beauty!
Yes. Yes. Yes.

EDIT: And really "You're in charge! You can do anything you want!" is pretty good for what it is translating. You reign. You power(?) [All is from You. You do all. Etc.]
« Last Edit: April 08, 2012, 08:57:05 PM by orthonorm »
Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.

Offline Ortho_cat

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Re: Most Idiotic Article Ever
« Reply #43 on: April 08, 2012, 08:57:52 PM »
Quote
Scripture Reference: GENESIS 8:1

The Real Bible: asswaged

Counterfeit: assuaged

 :D
 
 

 
 
 

Offline Ortho_cat

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Re: Most Idiotic Article Ever
« Reply #44 on: April 08, 2012, 09:01:28 PM »
I was laughing at his spelling of "publick" in the article. I kept hearing Ron White's voice - "Drunk in Public" - in my my mind!

note that's how the "real bible" spells it in Matthew 1:19 ;)

(also note that music is properly spelt musick 8))