Author Topic: Marriage and Children  (Read 1148 times)

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Offline beebert

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Marriage and Children
« on: January 30, 2017, 02:07:45 PM »
Hi everyone! I was wondering. Is it considered wrong to marry but to wait like 5 or 10 years with having children according to orthodoxy even if the married couple live together as brother and sister during that time? And also, is Children a must in marriage at all?
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Re: Marriage and Children
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2017, 02:56:58 PM »
Hi everyone! I was wondering. Is it considered wrong to marry but to wait like 5 or 10 years with having children according to orthodoxy even if the married couple live together as brother and sister during that time?

It depends on the reasons and the circumstances.
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Offline beebert

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Re: Marriage and Children
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2017, 03:10:05 PM »
Hi everyone! I was wondering. Is it considered wrong to marry but to wait like 5 or 10 years with having children according to orthodoxy even if the married couple live together as brother and sister during that time?

It depends on the reasons and the circumstances.
In what circumstances is it wrong?
'Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil' (Exodus 23:2)

Offline Dominika

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Re: Marriage and Children
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2017, 03:17:53 PM »
Hi everyone! I was wondering. Is it considered wrong to marry but to wait like 5 or 10 years with having children according to orthodoxy even if the married couple live together as brother and sister during that time?

It depends on the reasons and the circumstances.
In what circumstances is it wrong?

Above all, egoism. If you're healthy and have stabile situation (in marriage, at work), have enough money to get by, there are no bombs flying above your head and you still think to wait to have a child. That's an example of course.
I'm not experienced in these issues, so probaly other forumers should write something more.
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Offline Agabus

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Re: Marriage and Children
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2017, 03:19:07 PM »
Why get married now if one plans to live as brother and sister for five years?
Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

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Offline beebert

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Re: Marriage and Children
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2017, 03:19:24 PM »
Hi everyone! I was wondering. Is it considered wrong to marry but to wait like 5 or 10 years with having children according to orthodoxy even if the married couple live together as brother and sister during that time?

It depends on the reasons and the circumstances.
In what circumstances is it wrong?

Above all, egoism. If you're healthy and have stabile situation (in marriage, at work), have enough money to get by, there are no bombs flying above your head and you still think to wait to have a child. That's an example of course.
I'm not experienced in these issues, so probaly other forumers should write something more.

But could it not be considered selfish to HAVE kids as well? But yes I understand what you mean!
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Offline Dominika

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Re: Marriage and Children
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2017, 03:21:43 PM »
Hi everyone! I was wondering. Is it considered wrong to marry but to wait like 5 or 10 years with having children according to orthodoxy even if the married couple live together as brother and sister during that time?

It depends on the reasons and the circumstances.
In what circumstances is it wrong?

Above all, egoism. If you're healthy and have stabile situation (in marriage, at work), have enough money to get by, there are no bombs flying above your head and you still think to wait to have a child. That's an example of course.
I'm not experienced in these issues, so probaly other forumers should write something more.

But could it not be considered selfish to HAVE kids as well? But yes I understand what you mean!

Yes. For example, if you want with/by your children to fullfill your own not done dreams, ambitions etc.
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Offline beebert

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Re: Marriage and Children
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2017, 04:11:30 PM »
So to marry and then wait with having children is generally sinful? I ask because I am a Classical musician and would like to study music some more years before having Children and then it just came to me and I just started wonder if it is sinful to wait with having Children if you are married (I am not married)
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Re: Marriage and Children
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2017, 04:22:33 AM »
So to marry and then wait with having children is generally sinful? I ask because I am a Classical musician and would like to study music some more years before having Children and then it just came to me and I just started wonder if it is sinful to wait with having Children if you are married (I am not married)

I wouldn't say so. It all depends on the circumstances, with the reasons of such decision etc. It's quite individual question. I understand you since I'd like to wait also some time o have the first child, I mean for sure not in the 1st year of the marriage - to build stronger relation with the husband, to get used to each other and also because of other causes.
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Re: Marriage and Children
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2017, 05:23:27 AM »
So to marry and then wait with having children is generally sinful? I ask because I am a Classical musician and would like to study music some more years before having Children and then it just came to me and I just started wonder if it is sinful to wait with having Children if you are married (I am not married)

There's nothing wrong, in principle, with wanting the companionship of marriage before one is ready to start a family. It is, however, an issue to discuss in detail with one's spouse and spiritual father, to make sure everyone is on the same page.
'Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against stupid. That might actually make a difference.'~Harry Dresden

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Offline beebert

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Re: Marriage and Children
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2017, 07:58:56 AM »
So to marry and then wait with having children is generally sinful? I ask because I am a Classical musician and would like to study music some more years before having Children and then it just came to me and I just started wonder if it is sinful to wait with having Children if you are married (I am not married)

There's nothing wrong, in principle, with wanting the companionship of marriage before one is ready to start a family. It is, however, an issue to discuss in detail with one's spouse and spiritual father, to make sure everyone is on the same page.
But I have thought that It is considered sinful to Marry and to not have children as soon as you can according to orthodoxy. At the same time I wonder why It matters
'Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil' (Exodus 23:2)

Offline Arachne

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Re: Marriage and Children
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2017, 09:07:58 AM »
So to marry and then wait with having children is generally sinful? I ask because I am a Classical musician and would like to study music some more years before having Children and then it just came to me and I just started wonder if it is sinful to wait with having Children if you are married (I am not married)

There's nothing wrong, in principle, with wanting the companionship of marriage before one is ready to start a family. It is, however, an issue to discuss in detail with one's spouse and spiritual father, to make sure everyone is on the same page.
But I have thought that It is considered sinful to Marry and to not have children as soon as you can according to orthodoxy. At the same time I wonder why It matters

That's why it is important to keep your priest in the loop.
'Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against stupid. That might actually make a difference.'~Harry Dresden

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Offline beebert

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Re: Marriage and Children
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2017, 09:35:55 AM »
So to marry and then wait with having children is generally sinful? I ask because I am a Classical musician and would like to study music some more years before having Children and then it just came to me and I just started wonder if it is sinful to wait with having Children if you are married (I am not married)

There's nothing wrong, in principle, with wanting the companionship of marriage before one is ready to start a family. It is, however, an issue to discuss in detail with one's spouse and spiritual father, to make sure everyone is on the same page.
But I have thought that It is considered sinful to Marry and to not have children as soon as you can according to orthodoxy. At the same time I wonder why It matters

That's why it is important to keep your priest in the loop.
Sure. But would the priest say "it is sinful of you to wait" really? Does not the married couple have the right to decide when and if to have kids?
'Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil' (Exodus 23:2)

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Re: Marriage and Children
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2017, 09:43:43 AM »
So to marry and then wait with having children is generally sinful? I ask because I am a Classical musician and would like to study music some more years before having Children and then it just came to me and I just started wonder if it is sinful to wait with having Children if you are married (I am not married)

There's nothing wrong, in principle, with wanting the companionship of marriage before one is ready to start a family. It is, however, an issue to discuss in detail with one's spouse and spiritual father, to make sure everyone is on the same page.
But I have thought that It is considered sinful to Marry and to not have children as soon as you can according to orthodoxy. At the same time I wonder why It matters

That's why it is important to keep your priest in the loop.
Sure. But would the priest say "it is sinful of you to wait" really? Does not the married couple have the right to decide when and if to have kids?

As it has been mentioned above, why you want to wait matters too.
'Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against stupid. That might actually make a difference.'~Harry Dresden

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Offline beebert

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Re: Marriage and Children
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2017, 10:05:41 AM »
So to marry and then wait with having children is generally sinful? I ask because I am a Classical musician and would like to study music some more years before having Children and then it just came to me and I just started wonder if it is sinful to wait with having Children if you are married (I am not married)

There's nothing wrong, in principle, with wanting the companionship of marriage before one is ready to start a family. It is, however, an issue to discuss in detail with one's spouse and spiritual father, to make sure everyone is on the same page.
But I have thought that It is considered sinful to Marry and to not have children as soon as you can according to orthodoxy. At the same time I wonder why It matters

That's why it is important to keep your priest in the loop.
Sure. But would the priest say "it is sinful of you to wait" really? Does not the married couple have the right to decide when and if to have kids?

As it has been mentioned above, why you want to wait matters too.
In my case the will to focus on music a few more years. I guess that is selfish?
'Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil' (Exodus 23:2)

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Re: Marriage and Children
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2017, 10:40:17 AM »
If it's part of the way you are going to earn a living, but you will have kids later, then I don't think it's a sin. You will get there when you get there.
O hai

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Re: Marriage and Children
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2017, 10:44:39 AM »
If it's part of the way you are going to earn a living, but you will have kids later, then I don't think it's a sin. You will get there when you get there.

I see!  Thanks
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Re: Marriage and Children
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2017, 10:45:42 AM »
So to marry and then wait with having children is generally sinful? I ask because I am a Classical musician and would like to study music some more years before having Children and then it just came to me and I just started wonder if it is sinful to wait with having Children if you are married (I am not married)

There's nothing wrong, in principle, with wanting the companionship of marriage before one is ready to start a family. It is, however, an issue to discuss in detail with one's spouse and spiritual father, to make sure everyone is on the same page.
But I have thought that It is considered sinful to Marry and to not have children as soon as you can according to orthodoxy. At the same time I wonder why It matters

That's why it is important to keep your priest in the loop.
Sure. But would the priest say "it is sinful of you to wait" really? Does not the married couple have the right to decide when and if to have kids?

As it has been mentioned above, why you want to wait matters too.
In my case the will to focus on music a few more years. I guess that is selfish?

That's for us not to pronounce on and for you to discuss with your priest and your putative wife.
'Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against stupid. That might actually make a difference.'~Harry Dresden

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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Marriage and Children
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2017, 12:27:00 PM »
So to marry and then wait with having children is generally sinful? I ask because I am a Classical musician and would like to study music some more years before having Children and then it just came to me and I just started wonder if it is sinful to wait with having Children if you are married (I am not married)

There's nothing wrong, in principle, with wanting the companionship of marriage before one is ready to start a family. It is, however, an issue to discuss in detail with one's spouse and spiritual father, to make sure everyone is on the same page.
But I have thought that It is considered sinful to Marry and to not have children as soon as you can according to orthodoxy. At the same time I wonder why It matters

That's why it is important to keep your priest in the loop.
Sure. But would the priest say "it is sinful of you to wait" really? Does not the married couple have the right to decide when and if to have kids?

As it has been mentioned above, why you want to wait matters too.
In my case the will to focus on music a few more years. I guess that is selfish?

That's for us not to pronounce on and for you to discuss with your priest and your putative wife.
It is sinful to obsess about in the absence of at least a prospective spouse.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Marriage and Children
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2017, 12:28:41 PM »
Hi everyone! I was wondering. Is it considered wrong to marry but to wait like 5 or 10 years with having children according to orthodoxy even if the married couple live together as brother and sister during that time? And also, is Children a must in marriage at all?
The intent to have them is.

If you wait to have them when you are ready, you will not have them.

If you live together as brother and sister, there is no reason to get married.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline beebert

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Re: Marriage and Children
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2017, 12:49:25 PM »
Hi everyone! I was wondering. Is it considered wrong to marry but to wait like 5 or 10 years with having children according to orthodoxy even if the married couple live together as brother and sister during that time? And also, is Children a must in marriage at all?
The intent to have them is.

If you wait to have them when you are ready, you will not have them.

If you live together as brother and sister, there is no reason to get married.

So you are saying that as soon as one marries one must have Children?
'Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil' (Exodus 23:2)

Offline beebert

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Re: Marriage and Children
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2017, 12:50:21 PM »
So to marry and then wait with having children is generally sinful? I ask because I am a Classical musician and would like to study music some more years before having Children and then it just came to me and I just started wonder if it is sinful to wait with having Children if you are married (I am not married)

There's nothing wrong, in principle, with wanting the companionship of marriage before one is ready to start a family. It is, however, an issue to discuss in detail with one's spouse and spiritual father, to make sure everyone is on the same page.
But I have thought that It is considered sinful to Marry and to not have children as soon as you can according to orthodoxy. At the same time I wonder why It matters

That's why it is important to keep your priest in the loop.
Sure. But would the priest say "it is sinful of you to wait" really? Does not the married couple have the right to decide when and if to have kids?

As it has been mentioned above, why you want to wait matters too.
In my case the will to focus on music a few more years. I guess that is selfish?

That's for us not to pronounce on and for you to discuss with your priest and your putative wife.
It is sinful to obsess about in the absence of at least a prospective spouse.
So I am comitting a sin when I ask this question you mean?
'Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil' (Exodus 23:2)

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Re: Marriage and Children
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2017, 01:12:00 PM »
Oh boy...
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Offline beebert

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Re: Marriage and Children
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2017, 01:21:51 PM »
'Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil' (Exodus 23:2)

Offline beebert

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Re: Marriage and Children
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2017, 05:43:07 PM »
Oh boy...
was there something wrong with my question?
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Re: Marriage and Children
« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2017, 01:22:43 AM »
So to marry and then wait with having children is generally sinful? I ask because I am a Classical musician and would like to study music some more years before having Children and then it just came to me and I just started wonder if it is sinful to wait with having Children if you are married (I am not married)

There's nothing wrong, in principle, with wanting the companionship of marriage before one is ready to start a family. It is, however, an issue to discuss in detail with one's spouse and spiritual father, to make sure everyone is on the same page.
But I have thought that It is considered sinful to Marry and to not have children as soon as you can according to orthodoxy. At the same time I wonder why It matters

That's why it is important to keep your priest in the loop.
Sure. But would the priest say "it is sinful of you to wait" really? Does not the married couple have the right to decide when and if to have kids?

As it has been mentioned above, why you want to wait matters too.
In my case the will to focus on music a few more years. I guess that is selfish?

What if your hypothetical wife is not on board with living as brother and sister [stupid euphemism] not having sex with her husband which is her right since neither spouse's body is their own anymore? 
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Offline beebert

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Re: Marriage and Children
« Reply #26 on: February 01, 2017, 04:38:07 AM »
So to marry and then wait with having children is generally sinful? I ask because I am a Classical musician and would like to study music some more years before having Children and then it just came to me and I just started wonder if it is sinful to wait with having Children if you are married (I am not married)

There's nothing wrong, in principle, with wanting the companionship of marriage before one is ready to start a family. It is, however, an issue to discuss in detail with one's spouse and spiritual father, to make sure everyone is on the same page.
But I have thought that It is considered sinful to Marry and to not have children as soon as you can according to orthodoxy. At the same time I wonder why It matters

That's why it is important to keep your priest in the loop.
Sure. But would the priest say "it is sinful of you to wait" really? Does not the married couple have the right to decide when and if to have kids?

As it has been mentioned above, why you want to wait matters too.
In my case the will to focus on music a few more years. I guess that is selfish?

What if your hypothetical wife is not on board with living as brother and sister [stupid euphemism] not having sex with her husband which is her right since neither spouse's body is their own anymore?
yes of course; But IF she is. This is all just hypothetical :)
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Re: Marriage and Children
« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2017, 06:04:13 AM »
So to marry and then wait with having children is generally sinful? I ask because I am a Classical musician and would like to study music some more years before having Children and then it just came to me and I just started wonder if it is sinful to wait with having Children if you are married (I am not married)

There's nothing wrong, in principle, with wanting the companionship of marriage before one is ready to start a family. It is, however, an issue to discuss in detail with one's spouse and spiritual father, to make sure everyone is on the same page.
But I have thought that It is considered sinful to Marry and to not have children as soon as you can according to orthodoxy. At the same time I wonder why It matters

That's why it is important to keep your priest in the loop.
Sure. But would the priest say "it is sinful of you to wait" really? Does not the married couple have the right to decide when and if to have kids?

As it has been mentioned above, why you want to wait matters too.
In my case the will to focus on music a few more years. I guess that is selfish?

What if your hypothetical wife is not on board with living as brother and sister [stupid euphemism] not having sex with her husband which is her right since neither spouse's body is their own anymore?
yes of course; But IF she is. This is all just hypothetical :)

And this is why Isa said, further up, that you shouldn't obsess over hypotheticals.
'Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against stupid. That might actually make a difference.'~Harry Dresden

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Offline beebert

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Re: Marriage and Children
« Reply #28 on: February 01, 2017, 06:39:36 AM »
I don't obsess... basically at least I get the impression that marriage means having kids and that as soon as possible. All I wanted was to know the orthodox view.
'Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil' (Exodus 23:2)

Offline Arachne

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Re: Marriage and Children
« Reply #29 on: February 01, 2017, 07:16:27 AM »
I don't obsess... basically at least I get the impression that marriage means having kids and that as soon as possible. All I wanted was to know the orthodox view.

Marriage means creating a stable environment for a family to grow. Which means wanting kids. The timeframe is different for each family, depending on their circumstances. If there is too much unfinished business already, like studies to be completed, perhaps it is better to delay even the marriage. A partner who won't wait a couple of years for a degree to be completed may prove impatient in other things too.

Also, don't fret too much about the whole 'being ready for kids' idea. No one is ever completely ready for kids. Not even those who have been wanting them and actively trying for months or years. Parenthood is learned strictly on the job. Prep is good, but no amount of prep will ever cover all the possible ways a kid can throw your life off balance. Only rolling with it works.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2017, 07:16:48 AM by Arachne »
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Offline beebert

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Re: Marriage and Children
« Reply #30 on: February 01, 2017, 07:45:14 AM »
I don't obsess... basically at least I get the impression that marriage means having kids and that as soon as possible. All I wanted was to know the orthodox view.

Marriage means creating a stable environment for a family to grow. Which means wanting kids. The timeframe is different for each family, depending on their circumstances. If there is too much unfinished business already, like studies to be completed, perhaps it is better to delay even the marriage. A partner who won't wait a couple of years for a degree to be completed may prove impatient in other things too.

Also, don't fret too much about the whole 'being ready for kids' idea. No one is ever completely ready for kids. Not even those who have been wanting them and actively trying for months or years. Parenthood is learned strictly on the job. Prep is good, but no amount of prep will ever cover all the possible ways a kid can throw your life off balance. Only rolling with it works.
thanks for the fine answer. So basically, it all depends. So waiting with having kids just for the sake of waiting might be wrong
'Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil' (Exodus 23:2)