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Author Topic: Validity of Mother Teresa  (Read 9721 times) Average Rating: 0
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Myrrh23
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« on: September 20, 2008, 05:47:02 PM »

On what basis are you going off topic here slandering Mother Theresa?  I'm interested in why you see her in that light.

Username, unless you know it's slander, it'd be good not to accuse me of slandering. And I said it after reading what Crucifer had written about her in his personal quotes. I see her in that light because of what I've read by people who were active around her and from Indian professionals who themselves haven't seen much of any benefits she might have given in this life. Ever hear of Mother Teresa's millions? I don't understand how so many people can be so ignorant of what she and her sisters really were, but anyways....

My Sister in Law went on many medical trips to Hati when she was younger. She went with various Baptist organizations as a non-medical helper. She still ended up helping a woman give birth to her 9th and 10th children.

Quin, that's what I want to do, but I don't know who to go to if I want to volunteer like that.... Undecided
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« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2008, 05:55:21 PM »

On what basis are you going off topic here slandering Mother Theresa?  I'm interested in why you see her in that light.

Username, unless you know it's slander, it'd be good not to accuse me of slandering. And I said it after reading what Crucifer had written about her in his personal quotes. I see her in that light because of what I've read by people who were active around her and from Indian professionals who themselves haven't seen much of any benefits she might have given in this life. Ever hear of Mother Teresa's millions?
Myrrh, considering the reputation of sanctity Mother Theresa has among people of all religions, it'd be good not to call her a fraud until you can prove that she is.  Evidence from these professionals from whom you've heard damning information would be a good place to start.

Quote
I don't understand how so many people can be so ignorant of what she and her sisters really were, but anyways....
How can we be expected to know what we have not heard nor ever been told?
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« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2008, 09:50:19 PM »

Myrrh, considering the reputation of sanctity Mother Theresa has among people of all religions, it'd be good not to call her a fraud until you can prove that she is.  Evidence from these professionals from whom you've heard damning information would be a good place to start.

I'll stand by the position that she was corrupt, a fraud, a charlatan, and a hypocrite...not to mention a sadist, and no, not a sadist in a good way. While she partied with Haitian dictators, taking their blood money to build up her order, and enjoyed the best medical care in the world she consigned those under her care to poverty and misery...dying in filth and squalor without access to proper medical care.

She was a genuinely evil person, not simply misguided or inconsistent or uncaring or negligent, but evil in the fullest sense of the term. She does not deserve to go down in history as a saint and advocate of peace...she should go down in history with her name listed beside the despots she befriended.

As for a source, I would recommend starting with Christopher Hitchen's well researched and wonderfully written book The Missionary Position: Mother Teresa in Theory and Practice.

As for accusations of slander...you can't slander someone in writing...you can only commit libel against them. And truth is an absolute defence against both slander and libel.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2008, 09:53:05 PM by greekischristian » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2008, 10:30:13 PM »

I'll stand by the position that she was corrupt, a fraud, a charlatan, and a hypocrite...not to mention a sadist, and no, not a sadist in a good way. While she partied with Haitian dictators, taking their blood money to build up her order, and enjoyed the best medical care in the world she consigned those under her care to poverty and misery...dying in filth and squalor without access to proper medical care.

She was a genuinely evil person, not simply misguided or inconsistent or uncaring or negligent, but evil in the fullest sense of the term. She does not deserve to go down in history as a saint and advocate of peace...she should go down in history with her name listed beside the despots she befriended.

As for a source, I would recommend starting with Christopher Hitchen's well researched and wonderfully written book The Missionary Position: Mother Teresa in Theory and Practice.

As for accusations of slander...you can't slander someone in writing...you can only commit libel against them. And truth is an absolute defence against both slander and libel.
Wink

There are medical personnel who have written that she did not have her nuns learn practical medical knowledge. You have to understand that her donors built hospices for her, not hospitals---hospices are places where people go to die. There is evidence that her nuns put people sick with infectious diseases alongside much healthier people. You can go on YouTube and the internet, PtA--it's all documented. Her having a reputation of sanctity means nothing---it only means she successfully snowed people. PtA, it's all documented. Do you wish sources? I can give sources.
She did actually encourage people to suffer because she had it in her head that suffering brings you closer to Jesus. Haven't you ever wondered why she had all these millions of dollars from donors, and the poor of Calcutta saw next to nothing of it? I am ashamed of her.
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« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2008, 11:04:33 PM »

Myrrh, considering the reputation of sanctity Mother Theresa has among people of all religions, it'd be good not to call her a fraud until you can prove that she is.  Evidence from these professionals from whom you've heard damning information would be a good place to start.

I'll stand by the position that she was corrupt, a fraud, a charlatan, and a hypocrite...not to mention a sadist, and no, not a sadist in a good way. While she partied with Haitian dictators, taking their blood money to build up her order, and enjoyed the best medical care in the world she consigned those under her care to poverty and misery...dying in filth and squalor without access to proper medical care.

She was a genuinely evil person, not simply misguided or inconsistent or uncaring or negligent, but evil in the fullest sense of the term. She does not deserve to go down in history as a saint and advocate of peace...she should go down in history with her name listed beside the despots she befriended.

As for a source, I would recommend starting with Christopher Hitchen's well researched and wonderfully written book The Missionary Position: Mother Teresa in Theory and Practice.

As for accusations of slander...you can't slander someone in writing...you can only commit libel against them. And truth is an absolute defence against both slander and libel.
Nothing but your own opinions and a book with which you agree. Roll Eyes  You got anything more convincing than this?
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« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2008, 11:32:47 PM »

Nothing but your own opinions and a book with which you agree. Roll Eyes  You got anything more convincing than this?

My opinions? Is it merely my opinion that she befrended the Duvaliers? Is it merely my opinion that she took their money which was made on the oppression and slavery of their subjects? Is is merely my opinion that she enjoyed world-class medical care while consigning the poor of Calcutta to her houses of death without proper medical care? Is it merely my opinion that she would separate dying families, not allowing husbands or wives to be at the side of ther dying spouse?

These are facts about this charlatan...and there are many more, but apparently you are unwilling to actually read a book that may not be in line with your preconceived notions. Instead, you jump on the bandwagon of this Mother Teresa cult and excuse all her wrong doing because she claimed to be acting in the name of God.

Granted, there's pleanty of evidence out there that she really didn't take that god stuff seriously, but she at least put on a good enough show to pull the wool over most the faithful's eyes.
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« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2008, 06:55:05 PM »

Nothing but your own opinions and a book with which you agree. Roll Eyes  You got anything more convincing than this?

My opinions? Is it merely my opinion that she befrended the Duvaliers? Is it merely my opinion that she took their money which was made on the oppression and slavery of their subjects?
"Oppression" and "slavery" are often a matter of subjective perception and opinion.  Just exactly how did the Duvaliers oppress and enslave their subjects that receiving money from them would be such a great evil?

Quote
Is is merely my opinion that she enjoyed world-class medical care while consigning the poor of Calcutta to her houses of death without proper medical care? Is it merely my opinion that she would separate dying families, not allowing husbands or wives to be at the side of ther dying spouse?
Can you substantiate these accusations rather than just calling them facts?

Quote
These are facts about this charlatan...and there are many more, but apparently you are unwilling to actually read a book that may not be in line with your preconceived notions.
You call Christopher Hitchens's book "well researched and wonderfully written".  Why should I take this to be true solely on your authority?  Is it possible you see this book as "well researched and wonderfully written" only because it reaffirms your preconceived notions?

Quote
Instead, you jump on the bandwagon of this Mother Teresa cult and excuse all her wrong doing because she claimed to be acting in the name of God.
Really?  Where have I ever really praised Mother Theresa on this forum?  You assume that just because I want substantiation of the accusations you and others have leveled against her that I actually think her a saint?  All I've really ever said in her defense is that many people from all religions praise Mother Theresa as the epitome of sanctity; I have never said that I agree with them, and you might actually find me willing to reexamine her case with an open mind.

Quote
Granted, there's pleanty of evidence out there that she really didn't take that god stuff seriously, but she at least put on a good enough show to pull the wool over most the faithful's eyes.
Again, a claim that you need to substantiate.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2008, 06:59:58 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
Justin Kissel
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« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2008, 07:07:09 PM »

GIC

Quote
Granted, there's pleanty of evidence out there that she really didn't take that god stuff seriously, but she at least put on a good enough show to pull the wool over most the faithful's eyes.

I've seen sensationalized stories on this (about how she wrote a couple times that she doubted God), but not much else. Does Hitchins cover this in his book?
« Last Edit: September 21, 2008, 07:07:22 PM by Asteriktos » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2008, 11:41:10 PM »

"Oppression" and "slavery" are often a matter of subjective perception and opinion.  Just exactly how did the Duvaliers oppress and enslave their subjects that receiving money from them would be such a great evil?

You're kidding, right? Murder, assassination, torture, corruption...sure, these are all great things, heck why not just canonize Jean-Claude Duvalier, while you're at it you can elevate Pol Pot and Nicolae Ceauşescu to sainthood. All I can say is WOW.

Quote
Can you substantiate these accusations rather than just calling them facts?

I gave you a source which is full of research, interviews, etc. But you're unwilling to consider it. Why should I assume you'll better receive any other source I provide?

Quote
You call Christopher Hitchens's book "well researched and wonderfully written".  Why should I take this to be true solely on your authority?  Is it possible you see this book as "well researched and wonderfully written" only because it reaffirms your preconceived notions?

Could be, but seeing how you haven't actually read it, you're hardly in a position to make that assertion. Read it, judge for yourself, or maybe you're afraid of what you'll find, the truth isn't always pretty.

Quote
Really?  Where have I ever really praised Mother Theresa on this forum?  You assume that just because I want substantiation of the accusations you and others have leveled against her that I actually think her a saint?  All I've really ever said in her defense is that many people from all religions praise Mother Theresa as the epitome of sanctity; I have never said that I agree with them, and you might actually find me willing to reexamine her case with an open mind.

If that is the case, then my apologies...but forgive me for being skeptical since when I did provide a source it was quickly thrown back at me an rejected without any good reason except the 'possibility' of bias.

Quote
Again, a claim that you need to substantiate.

Fully documented, referenced, and discussed in detail in the book I already suggested.
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« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2008, 11:43:07 PM »

I've seen sensationalized stories on this (about how she wrote a couple times that she doubted God), but not much else. Does Hitchins cover this in his book?

Yes, it's addressed amongst other things.
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« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2008, 12:06:59 AM »

Username, my apologies for commenting on Mother Teresa in your domain. I should have done it in Politics or heated debate. Smiley
Yes, that probably would have been better!
But I would just like to say that I know two Australian Sisters of Charity who worked with Mother Theresa and who themselves told me the same thing about her as you have heard and GiC has read.
From 1587, the Roman Catholic Church appointed a Canon Lawyer as the "Promotor Fidei" ("Promotor of the Faith") whose job it was to argue the case against the Canonization of a Saint, hence they became popularly known as the "Advocatus Diaboli" ("The Devil's Advocate"). Interestingly, Pope John Paul II abolished the role of the "Devil's Advocate" in 1983, and his pontificate saw nearly 500 Canonizations and over 1300 Beatifications as compared to only 98 Canonizations by all the Popes of the 20th Century which preceeded him.
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« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2008, 12:35:44 AM »

Quote
Can you substantiate these accusations rather than just calling them facts?

I gave you a source which is full of research, interviews, etc. But you're unwilling to consider it. Why should I assume you'll better receive any other source I provide?
Well, speaking for myself, the vitriolic reaction I see here from you doesn't exactly endear you as a rational reviewer of this book.

Quote
Quote
Again, a claim that you need to substantiate.

Fully documented, referenced, and discussed in detail in the book I already suggested.
I'm not going to put money down on this book based solely on what you say about it, for I really don't care that much about this issue--if the Roman Catholic Church wants to canonize Mother Teresa or if they don't, it's no skin off my nose.  You've made some public claims about Mother Teresa on this thread, and I would like you to substantiate them on this thread.  Reference Mr. Hitchens's book if you want, but don't make me or anyone else go and read it.
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« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2008, 01:05:41 AM »

I'm not going to put money down on this book based solely on what you say about it, for I really don't care that much about this issue--if the Roman Catholic Church wants to canonize Mother Teresa or if they don't, it's no skin off my nose.  You've made some public claims about Mother Teresa on this thread, and I would like you to substantiate them on this thread.  Reference Mr. Hitchens's book if you want, but don't make me or anyone else go and read it.

I would put down my sources as well, but I asked username to put all this heat into another thread...again, I apologize. It's just that I feel very strongly about Mother Teresa. The people of Calcutta are right...we westerners have made her into a goddess.
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« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2008, 10:34:01 AM »

Ok here some articles about Agnes Gonxha Bojaxhiu (aka "Mother Teresa")
the first one was writtten someone who actually worked with her order:

http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/shields_18_1.html

article from a conservative publication:
http://members.lycos.co.uk/bajuu/

http://www.newstatesman.com/200508220019

http://ffrf.org/fttoday/1996/august96/hakeem.html

wriiten by an Indian physician who saw her con job first hand:
http://www.meteorbooks.com/

Here are links to the documentary "Hell's Angel" an honest look at this fraudulent huckster:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQejG7-sGk4

I hope the RCC does canonize her....money grubbing media-skanks need a patron saint too!

« Last Edit: September 22, 2008, 04:30:20 PM by Crucifer » Logged

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« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2008, 10:48:20 AM »

"Media-skank"? This thread is diabolical.  Angry

If there was no vicious agenda behind all of this, you would not need to resort to name-calling. Christopher Hitchens liked to call her the "Ghoul of Calcutta," "that bitch," and "the hell bat."

The fact that comfortable people sitting in their comfortable homes in front of their computers dare to use such invective against a nun who gave her life to suffer as a servant of the poorest of the poor for half a century makes me sick.  Angry

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« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2008, 10:53:05 AM »

"If there was no vicious agenda behind all of this, you would not need to resort to name-calling. Christopher Hitchens liked to call her the "Ghoul of Calcutta," "that bitch," and "the hell bat." "

The point of this thread is exposing certain facts about Agnes Gonxha Bojaxhiu. Sorry if that strikes her goo-goo eyed acolytes as diabolical, but remeber what the kitty said....

Many people on this forum were only to happy to pontificate when the issues around former Met. Herman became public.

"The fact that comfortable people sitting in their comfortable homes in front of their computers dare to use such invective against a nun who gave her life to suffer as a servant of the poorest of the poor for half a century makes me sick.  "

She didn't suffer as servant of the sick, that's the point of the thread. As far as invectice, believe me I've toned my feelings down considerably. If I posted what I was thinking, it would melt my keyboard.
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« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2008, 10:53:47 AM »

From 1587, the Roman Catholic Church appointed a Canon Lawyer as the "Promotor Fidei" ("Promotor of the Faith") whose job it was to argue the case against the Canonization of a Saint, hence they became popularly known as the "Advocatus Diaboli" ("The Devil's Advocate"). Interestingly, Pope John Paul II abolished the role of the "Devil's Advocate" in 1983, and his pontificate saw nearly 500 Canonizations and over 1300 Beatifications as compared to only 98 Canonizations by all the Popes of the 20th Century which preceeded him.

Christopher Hitchens, of all people, was appointed by the Holy See to argue against the cause of Mother Teresa.
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« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2008, 11:02:11 AM »

From 1587, the Roman Catholic Church appointed a Canon Lawyer as the "Promotor Fidei" ("Promotor of the Faith") whose job it was to argue the case against the Canonization of a Saint, hence they became popularly known as the "Advocatus Diaboli" ("The Devil's Advocate"). Interestingly, Pope John Paul II abolished the role of the "Devil's Advocate" in 1983, and his pontificate saw nearly 500 Canonizations and over 1300 Beatifications as compared to only 98 Canonizations by all the Popes of the 20th Century which preceeded him.

Christopher Hitchens, of all people, was appointed by the Holy See to argue against the cause of Mother Teresa.

Right, which proves that the RCC felt he had researched carefully and was credible.
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« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2008, 11:13:24 AM »

But she didn't "suffer as a servant of the poor" and that's the point of the thread.

Read Mother Teresa: Come be My Light (ed. Brian Kolodiejchuk, Doubleday, 2007), and tell me again she didn't. You think she went to India more than 60 years ago with the motivation to become a beloved world figure? She had a comfortable home with the Sisters of Loreto. She wrote in her diary that she knew she was going to suffer for the poor in India, but she said yes to the call.

It was her selfless and tireless work that brought her international attention, and that attention came decades after she had begun it. And  that publicity (which she very smartly used in her old age) brought global attention to the poorest of the poor in the Third World and is largely responsible for the great growth of the order she founded. More than 5,000 sisters and 450 brothers work around the world in 120 countries, running hospices, missions, schools and shelters. I've spoken to people who were inspired by her to give their lives in charity and service. I would also add that she used that global attention to strongly stand for the Culture of Life.

And for almost fifty years, she never had the consolation of God's presence. She suffered in spiritual darkness through it all. We only know this because her private letters and diary were not destroyed (against her wishes).
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« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2008, 11:24:08 AM »

"If there was no vicious agenda behind all of this, you would not need to resort to name-calling. Christopher Hitchens liked to call her the "Ghoul of Calcutta," "that bitch," and "the hell bat." "

The point of this thread is exposing certain facts about Agnes Gonxha Bojaxhiu. Sorry if that strikes her goo-goo eyed acolytes as diabolical, but remeber what the kitty said....

Many people on this forum were only to happy to pontificate when the issues around former Met. Herman became public.

"The fact that comfortable people sitting in their comfortable homes in front of their computers dare to use such invective against a nun who gave her life to suffer as a servant of the poorest of the poor for half a century makes me sick.  "

She didn't suffer as servant of the sick, that's the point of the thread. As far as invectice, believe me I've toned my feelings down considerably. If I posted what I was thinking, it would melt my keyboard.


Regardless of your opinion of her, please do not insult the woman by calling her a "media-skank."  Further ad hominems will be moderated accordingly.  --EofK
« Last Edit: September 22, 2008, 11:24:40 AM by EofK » Logged

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« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2008, 11:36:00 AM »

From 1587, the Roman Catholic Church appointed a Canon Lawyer as the "Promotor Fidei" ("Promotor of the Faith") whose job it was to argue the case against the Canonization of a Saint, hence they became popularly known as the "Advocatus Diaboli" ("The Devil's Advocate"). Interestingly, Pope John Paul II abolished the role of the "Devil's Advocate" in 1983, and his pontificate saw nearly 500 Canonizations and over 1300 Beatifications as compared to only 98 Canonizations by all the Popes of the 20th Century which preceeded him.

Christopher Hitchens, of all people, was appointed by the Holy See to argue against the cause of Mother Teresa.

Right, which proves that the RCC felt he had researched carefully and was credible.

Not necessarily. He, a self-appointed "oppositionist," was widely known as a hater of Mother Teresa. They had to find somebody.

Reviews of his The Missionary Position:

"An extended, nun-busting polemic from the The Nation columnist." Publishers Weekly

"This readable, caustic polemic is very short on biographical data and cited sources and lacks scholarly development. Given its provocative nature, it is recommended for libraries owning several titles about Mother Teresa despite its weaknesses." Library Journal

At its heart, Hitchens' beef with Mother Teresa is that she stood for supposedly "fundamentalist" Catholic beliefs (like opposition to abortion, redemptive suffering, and not fearing death). The animus is ideological. The rest is just window-dressing.
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« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2008, 11:40:38 AM »

Ugh. Seeing Mother Teresa called a "skank" on a "Christian" forum makes me consider whether I should participate here anymore. It's just not good for my soul. I don't have her charity.
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« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2008, 11:42:41 AM »

^ Just so you know, Lubeltri, that one made my stomach turn as well. Please know that not all Orthodox are so crass as to have such disrespect for the departed.
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« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2008, 11:57:23 AM »

^ Just so you know, Lubeltri, that one made my stomach turn as well. Please know that not all Orthodox are so crass as to have such disrespect for the departed.

I second this.  Regardless of what she's done in her life she should still be respected as a human being. 
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« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2008, 01:03:36 PM »

In defense of Mother Theresa http://www.nybooks.com/articles/1434 Later addition here: It is intersting that someone like Hitchens who writes for a jaded rag like the Nation magazine has much unfounded criticism of Mother Theresa but has nothing to say about the Nation which has repeatedly apologized for a murderer like Stalin. Additionally, the Nation was fingered by US intelligence in World War II as a pro Soviet publication dedicated to Marxist revolution in the Venona project. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venona_project
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« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2008, 01:57:54 PM »

...
Myrrh, considering the reputation of sanctity Mother Theresa has among people of all religions, ...

I wouldn't know about all religions, not even among Orthodox Christians, but I know 0 (zero, nich, nada, null) Serbian Orthodox whom believe in her "reputation of sanctity".
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« Reply #26 on: September 22, 2008, 02:51:58 PM »

Ugh. Seeing Mother Teresa called a "skank" on a "Christian" forum makes me consider whether I should participate here anymore. It's just not good for my soul. I don't have her charity.
None of this is meant as a personal attack against you, having a good mix of folks from various walks of life and different churches is what helps keep a publc forum interesting.
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« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2008, 02:57:30 PM »

BTW< in my OP i never refered to Agnes Gonxha Bojaxhiu as a "skank"...I used that term in my post and other folks assumed it applied to her. I wonder why.
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« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2008, 03:02:41 PM »

Quote from: Crucifer
BTW< in my OP i never refered to Agnes Gonxha Bojaxhiu as a "skank"...I used that term in my post and other folks assumed it applied to her. I wonder why.

Hmmm...

Ok here some articles about Agnes Gonxha Bojaxhiu (aka "Mother Teresa")
the first one was writtten someone who actually worked with her order:


I hope the RCC does canonize her....money grubbing media-skanks need a patron saint too!

One would think canonizing someone as their patron saint would suggest that they have the same characteristics or are familiar with the practices/work of said people. 

Or how about this one?:
Quote from: Crucifer
Here are links to the documentary "Hell's Angel" an honest look at this fraudulent hukster
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« Reply #29 on: September 22, 2008, 03:55:22 PM »

One would think canonizing someone as their patron saint would suggest that they have the same characteristics or are familiar with the practices/work of said people. 

That she shares those characteristics is the point, it's obvious. That doesn't mean he directly applied the term to her...he didn't...he simply assoicated her with such people.

Quote
Or how about this one?:
Quote from: Crucifer
Here are links to the documentary "Hell's Angel" an honest look at this fraudulent hukster

It's the name of the documentary...how could you complain about him stating that? Unless you're under some delusion that he both created and named the documentary or something?
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« Reply #30 on: September 22, 2008, 04:11:28 PM »

"Not necessarily. He, a self-appointed "oppositionist," was widely known as a hater of Mother Teresa. They had to find somebody."

oh so the Catholic Church wasn't really interested in investigating this woman in any serious way, they only wanted to give the appearence of such...in other words "window dressing".

IIRC, Hitchens original name for the documentary was "Sacred Cow", but the BBC chose "Hell's Angel".

Interesting but only 1 of the refernces I listed is by Hitchens, but he's the only one being criticized.

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« Reply #31 on: September 22, 2008, 04:22:18 PM »

Or how about this one?:
Quote from: Crucifer
Here are links to the documentary "Hell's Angel" an honest look at this fraudulent hukster

It's the name of the documentary...how could you complain about him stating that? Unless you're under some delusion that he both created and named the documentary or something?

I was referring to the fraudulent hukster (sic) part, not the documentary title.
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« Reply #32 on: September 22, 2008, 04:31:40 PM »

Or how about this one?:
Quote from: Crucifer
Here are links to the documentary "Hell's Angel" an honest look at this fraudulent hukster

It's the name of the documentary...how could you complain about him stating that? Unless you're under some delusion that he both created and named the documentary or something?

I was referring to the fraudulent hukster (sic) part, not the documentary title.

thnx for pointing out my speeling error, i've corrected it Cool
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« Reply #33 on: September 22, 2008, 04:33:34 PM »

Know porblem.  Wink 
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« Reply #34 on: September 22, 2008, 04:40:19 PM »

One would think canonizing someone as their patron saint would suggest that they have the same characteristics or are familiar with the practices/work of said people. 
That she shares those characteristics is the point, it's obvious. That doesn't mean he directly applied the term to her...he didn't...he simply assoicated her with such people.

And if frauds, skanks or hucksters were offended, I apologize.
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« Reply #35 on: September 22, 2008, 05:09:08 PM »

Well, I'm finished with OC.net. Thanks to many of you here for being gracious hosts. Farewell.
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« Reply #36 on: September 22, 2008, 06:05:23 PM »

^^ I'm beginning to think I might follow suit.  It just seems the overall tone of the forum has been sinking to lower depths.     
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« Reply #37 on: September 22, 2008, 07:25:00 PM »

Well, I'm finished with OC.net. Thanks to many of you here for being gracious hosts. Farewell.

Give me a break...you attack those you deem too 'progressive' or 'modernist' day in and day out...but someone speaks unfavourably of one of your sacred cows you throw a temper tantrum and threaten to leave. You could at least feign objectivity at times. Roll Eyes
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« Reply #38 on: September 22, 2008, 07:29:20 PM »

Interesting but only 1 of the refernces I listed is by Hitchens, but he's the only one being criticized.
Well, if you read the whole thread, you'll see that criticism of Mr. Hitchens started before you even posted accounts from other people.

As regards Christopher Hitchens:  AFAIK, he's reported to be an avowed atheist whose goal is the destruction of faith in any religion, especially Christianity.  Would anyone with such a militant anti-Christian agenda fit the bill of a credible witness against Mother Teresa?

As to all the other articles both accusing and defending her:  I see enough credibility on both sides to at least recognize much in Mother Teresa's ministry that should be very troubling, yet also much that is still praiseworthy.  I also have to voice some criticism of the previous Pope's effort to fast track her future(?) glorification, as well as the glorification of many other individuals.  Within the Roman church's traditionally centralized authority structure, I really think that this quickness cheapens the title of "Saint" and that the current Pope would do much better to return to a more deliberate process.  In the end, though, what does this matter to me, an Orthodox Christian not in communion with Rome?  Not much.

Now back to Mother Teresa, I see no particular reason right now to glorify her as a saint, but neither do I see any reason to damn her as a demon.
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« Reply #39 on: September 22, 2008, 07:39:11 PM »

...
Myrrh, considering the reputation of sanctity Mother Theresa has among people of all religions, ...

I wouldn't know about all religions, not even among Orthodox Christians, but I know 0 (zero, nich, nada, null) Serbian Orthodox whom believe in her "reputation of sanctity".

I never cared for her or believed in her....to me she's definitely is not a saint....SmileyCentral.com" border="0
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« Reply #40 on: September 22, 2008, 07:53:14 PM »

None of us is perfect and we are all sinners.

When Mr. Hitchen's book came out I was still an atheist, and looked forward to reading what I thought would be a thorough trashing of yet another one of those sanctimonious Christians.

Sadly, I was disappointed, because about midway through the book, it became obvious that Hitchen's criticism of her were almost all based on his disagreement with what the Catholic Church teaches.  The criticisms about the money and the treatment of the patients in her hospitals seemed to be based on the testimony of one particular ex-nun who had been kicked out of the sisterhood and therefore may have had an ax to grind.

There was no "smoking gun".  Ultimately it depends on who you find more credible - Hitchens or the Catholic Church.  And I'm not gonna tell you which one I chose ... but FWIW I'm no longer an atheist so perhaps you can guess.  Wink
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« Reply #41 on: September 22, 2008, 08:13:47 PM »

Here's an article that has no connection to Hitches or Susan Sheilds:
http://members.lycos.co.uk/bajuu/
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« Reply #42 on: September 22, 2008, 08:14:06 PM »

Dear friends,

Rather than consider the validity of Mother Teresa, perhaps we should consider the validity of this thread on a Christian forum. Whatever the truth might be about Mother Teresa's life and work, it's unlikely that any of us are in a position to know the absolute truth. Rather than any of us risking that we might be guilty of making false statements about a person who isn't here to defend themselves, why not leave the matter in God's hands?  
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« Reply #43 on: September 22, 2008, 08:21:26 PM »

Here's an article that has no connection to Hitches or Susan Sheilds:
http://members.lycos.co.uk/bajuu/
You've already posted this link on this thread.
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« Reply #44 on: September 22, 2008, 08:28:22 PM »

Here's an article that has no connection to Hitches or Susan Sheilds:
http://members.lycos.co.uk/bajuu/
You've already posted this link on this thread.

Yes, I wanted to emphasize it because I said earlier, everyone seems to ignore the criticisms themselves and go on and on about Christopher Hitchens.
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