Author Topic: Islam and Orthodoxy  (Read 12995 times)

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Offline johnmac

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Islam and Orthodoxy
« on: September 17, 2008, 08:12:37 PM »
What are the influences of Islam on the Orthodox Church?
Thanks,

Offline SolEX01

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Re: Islam and Orthodoxy
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2008, 08:23:42 PM »
^ Ethnarchy and Division although the Orthodox Church has continued on for 13+ Centuries since the rise of Islam.

Offline ytterbiumanalyst

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Re: Islam and Orthodoxy
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2008, 11:58:27 AM »
What are the influences of Islam on the Orthodox Church?
Thanks,
A better question would be how have Islam and Orthodoxy influenced each other? There are many similarities between the two, not to mention Islam's recognition of all pre-Christ saints.
"It is remarkable that what we call the world...in what professes to be true...will allow in one man no blemishes, and in another no virtue."--Charles Dickens

Offline Anastasios

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Re: Islam and Orthodoxy
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2008, 11:59:50 AM »
What are the influences of Islam on the Orthodox Church?
Thanks,
A better question would be how have Islam and Orthodoxy influenced each other? There are many similarities between the two, not to mention Islam's recognition of all pre-Christ saints.
And the Seven Sleepers of Ephesus ;)
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Islam and Orthodoxy
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2008, 02:51:34 PM »
What are the influences of Islam on the Orthodox Church?
Thanks,
A better question would be how have Islam and Orthodoxy influenced each other? There are many similarities between the two, not to mention Islam's recognition of all pre-Christ saints.

I can think of a couple of things in my mind on the influences between Islam and Christianity in Egypt.

Coptic Orthodox influenced Muslims by empowering women and opening up the idea that something other than a monogamous relationship even among Muslims is somewhat socially unacceptable, somewhat because this is a heated debate between Muslims educated in the ways of Al Azhar (or the more ultra-traditionalist) and the more civilized and moderate Muslims.

Muslims have influenced Copts when it comes to alcohol (and sometimes certain types of music), i.e. it is somewhat of a taboo among religious circles, especially clerical ranks (even though we still use wine for the Blood of Christ in the Eucharist).
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Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: Islam and Orthodoxy
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2008, 03:49:52 PM »
Historically, iconclasm would be/have been the biggest influence, IMHO.
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Re: Islam and Orthodoxy
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2008, 03:52:53 PM »
[Muslims have influenced Copts when it comes to alcohol (and sometimes certain types of music), i.e. it is somewhat of a taboo among religious circles, especially clerical ranks (even though we still use wine for the Blood of Christ in the Eucharist).

Don't the Copts also keep kosher (i.e. no pork)?  Is that not also the influence of Islam?
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Islam and Orthodoxy
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2008, 04:30:57 PM »
[Muslims have influenced Copts when it comes to alcohol (and sometimes certain types of music), i.e. it is somewhat of a taboo among religious circles, especially clerical ranks (even though we still use wine for the Blood of Christ in the Eucharist).

Don't the Copts also keep kosher (i.e. no pork)?  Is that not also the influence of Islam?

No.  Ethiopians keep kosher, and not because of Islam, but because of their ancient Jewish roots (and from what I hear, not all Ethiopians keep kosher).

But I do know my father hates pork.  I likes my ribs  ;D
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

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Re: Islam and Orthodoxy
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2008, 06:16:43 PM »
Thanks, Mina.  I didn't know that. 
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Offline ytterbiumanalyst

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Re: Islam and Orthodoxy
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2008, 08:47:51 PM »
What are the influences of Islam on the Orthodox Church?
Thanks,
A better question would be how have Islam and Orthodoxy influenced each other? There are many similarities between the two, not to mention Islam's recognition of all pre-Christ saints.
And the Seven Sleepers of Ephesus ;)
Really? Cool!
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Offline Faith

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Re: Islam and Orthodoxy
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2008, 10:46:06 PM »
Check out this clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u84S0JcgoIk
It briefly mentions how Islam adopted prostrations from Christianity...

Prayers,
Faith

Offline sohma_hatori

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Re: Islam and Orthodoxy
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2008, 07:49:48 AM »
I didnt know that Oriental Orthodox cross themselves from left to right.. (reffering to the video)
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Offline OrthodoxPilgrim

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Re: Islam and Orthodoxy
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2008, 10:41:59 PM »
What are the influences of Islam on the Orthodox Church?
Thanks,

Not much, to tell you the truth...In fact, if I may be bold enough to say, it was mostly the other way around. From my wanderings from Reformed theology into Orthodoxy, one of my first discoveries was how closely similar the Orthodox worship patterns were to the Islamic ones. When I did a bit of research into this further, I was led to believe that all of the exterior aesthetics of Islam's devotional life (i.e. the prostrations, the kneeling down and the turning towards particular directions to pray, praying 5 times a day, compulsory fasting, pilgrimages and almsgiving) that I as a Protestant, once considered unique was no longer so. In fact, from earliest attestations, one can find Jews and Chrsitians following the same pattern of worship. Not to mention the chanting. Islamic chanting of their own holy scriptures borrows heavily from the Orthodox mode of chanting as well. In short, the more I studied into Orthodoxy, the less appealing I found Islam and the more I saw it as a cheap, "made in China" copycat of the One, True, Apostolic Faith. (no offence to those that are Chinese here.....)

That's just my two cents on the matter...

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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Islam and Orthodoxy
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2008, 11:08:35 AM »
What are the influences of Islam on the Orthodox Church?
Thanks,
A better question would be how have Islam and Orthodoxy influenced each other? There are many similarities between the two, not to mention Islam's recognition of all pre-Christ saints.
'

Except St. Paul. They blame him for Christianity.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Islam and Orthodoxy
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2008, 11:10:47 AM »
Historically, iconclasm would be/have been the biggest influence, IMHO.
On the Protestants.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Islam and Orthodoxy
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2008, 11:15:57 AM »
[Muslims have influenced Copts when it comes to alcohol (and sometimes certain types of music), i.e. it is somewhat of a taboo among religious circles, especially clerical ranks (even though we still use wine for the Blood of Christ in the Eucharist).

Don't the Copts also keep kosher (i.e. no pork)?  Is that not also the influence of Islam?

No.  Ethiopians keep kosher, and not because of Islam, but because of their ancient Jewish roots (and from what I hear, not all Ethiopians keep kosher).

But I do know my father hates pork.  I likes my ribs  ;D

And both Ethiopians and Copts circumcize.  But that predates Islam.
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Offline GabrieltheCelt

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Re: Islam and Orthodoxy
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2008, 11:54:47 AM »
What are the influences of Islam on the Orthodox Church?
Thanks,
There are many similarities between the two, not to mention Islam's recognition of all pre-Christ saints.
The similarities are due not so much because the two have influenced one another (although it's possible this has occurred), but because Muhammad was in contact with Orthodoxy on a regular basis.  Makka (Mecca) was a trading hub through which several trading routes crossed through.  There are too many references of Muhammad coming into contact with Christianity during the early days of Islam for there to be a coincidence.  An example from the Qur'an would be the angel Gabriel (Jibra'il in Arabic).  As Gabriel announced to the Theotokos the coming of Jesus, the Qur'an tells us that Gabriel 'announced' to Muhammad about how the Bible had been corrupted by the Christians and how he, Muhammad, is to write down the final, incorrupt Testament if you will (Qur'an means 'to recite', Al Qur'an Al Majid- as it is known in Arabic- means the Glorious or Royal Recitation.)  An example from history, other than the one I provided earlier, is when the Meccan city council sought to protect their interests by running Muhammad out of town.  The story goes that he sought refuge in Ethiopia where the Christian King took him in and helped him.  There Muhammad learned much about Christianity.  Later on, when he returned to Mecca victorious, he smashed all the idols in the Ka'baa except one- an icon of the Theotokos holding the Christ-child.  It's reported to still be there.

This, in addition to what Orthodox Pilgrim wrote, should shed a little light on Islam's background.  There are many scholarly books, both from Christians and Muslims, that point to this as well.  But I always enjoyed the words of St. Issac the Syrian's teachings on how Islam is simply a sect of Christianity.

*Caveat- it should also noted that just as most religion's are no longer monolithic, neither is Islam.  There are so many sects of Islam nowadays, that the argument regarding the similarities will not always hold up.  When I was a practicing Muslim, I belonged to a group known as Sirat al-Qur'an (The Way of the Qur'an); a group that espoused reading the Qur'an only.  In other words, we were Protestant Muslims. ;)
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Islam and Orthodoxy
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2008, 08:54:19 PM »
Check out this clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u84S0JcgoIk
It briefly mentions how Islam adopted prostrations from Christianity...

Prayers,
Faith

Any other parts of this?

I notice how he says that during the rise in persecution, the number of monks has gone from 10 to over a 100.  The world just doesn't get it.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Faith

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Re: Islam and Orthodoxy
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2008, 11:38:14 PM »
Check out this clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u84S0JcgoIk
It briefly mentions how Islam adopted prostrations from Christianity...

Prayers,
Faith

Any other parts of this?


Hey ialmisry,

Unfortunately I haven't been able to find any more of this documentary, sorry. But if you ever get your hands on it, please let me know! Thanks!

Prayers,
Faith

Offline ytterbiumanalyst

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Re: Islam and Orthodoxy
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2008, 09:13:32 AM »
What are the influences of Islam on the Orthodox Church?
Thanks,
A better question would be how have Islam and Orthodoxy influenced each other? There are many similarities between the two, not to mention Islam's recognition of all pre-Christ saints.
'

Except St. Paul. They blame him for Christianity.
Thank you for that information. I was unaware that St. Paul lived before Christ.
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Offline prodromas

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Re: Islam and Orthodoxy
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2008, 11:25:54 AM »
What are the influences of Islam on the Orthodox Church?
Thanks,
A better question would be how have Islam and Orthodoxy influenced each other? There are many similarities between the two, not to mention Islam's recognition of all pre-Christ saints.
'

Except St. Paul. They blame him for Christianity.
Thank you for that information. I was unaware that St. Paul lived before Christ.

LOL I think your joking Mr.Y but for others what Ialmisry means is that Muslims and certain other historians have the concept of "Pauline Christianity" which is that St.Paul is the one who propagated ideas of the resurrection and atonement and the general messiah thing and that these were not the general beliefs of the followers of Christ after his crucifixion (or apparent crucifixion).
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Offline ytterbiumanalyst

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Re: Islam and Orthodoxy
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2008, 11:30:36 AM »
^ Indeed. They view Christianity as something invented by the Apostles, so even though they can accept the Prophets, including Jesus Christ, they do not believe that Jesus is the Messiah. So to them Isaias, Daniel, and Jesus were all preaching Islam.
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Offline GabrieltheCelt

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Re: Islam and Orthodoxy
« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2008, 11:37:55 AM »
Paulianity is a theory many Islamic apologists use to discredit Christianity.  Here's a link to one such website Christianity or Paulianity .  Have fun. :)
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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Islam and Orthodoxy
« Reply #23 on: October 01, 2008, 04:11:16 PM »
^ Indeed. They view Christianity as something invented by the Apostles, so even though they can accept the Prophets, including Jesus Christ, they do not believe that Jesus is the Messiah. So to them Isaias, Daniel, and Jesus were all preaching Islam.

Although Islam considers Jesus one of the Islamic messengers supposedly predicting the coming of Mohammad, it endorses the Christian tenets that Jesus was the only Messiah (with no definition of the word though!) and that Jesus' apostles became triumphant over Jesus' enemies. The current allegations concerning the so-called Pauline Christianity and relevant Paulophobia are alien to the Koran :)


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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Islam and Orthodoxy
« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2008, 04:22:31 PM »
Orthodox Christianity primarily had a great impact on Mohammad's theology in general. As he confirmed the Torah and certain tenets of Judaism to win the favour of Jews against Meccan pagans and to find allies in case of a war, he did the same by praising the monotheistic faith (Christian) of the Eastern Rome in his scripture. The 30th Surah (chapter) of the Koran is named after Eastern Romans (Rum in Arabic) and predicts the victory of the Roman army against pagans despite their recent defeat in the neighbouring area:

Surah Ar-Rum 30:2-5
The Romans have been defeated. In the nearer land, and they, after their defeat will be victorious. Within ten years - Allah's is the command in the former case and in the latter - and in that day believers will rejoice. In Allah's help to victory. He helpeth to victory whom He will. He is the Mighty, the Merciful.

The Koran also contains the story of the seven sleepers, and the 18th Surah of the Koran, which is named the Cave (Al-Kahf), narrates the miraculous story of those Christian saints in details.



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Offline ytterbiumanalyst

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Re: Islam and Orthodoxy
« Reply #25 on: October 01, 2008, 04:35:39 PM »
Welcome, Theophilos, and thank you for your thoughtful reply.

There are many things in Islam which are not in the Qu'ran, but have been added later. For instance, the idea of suicide bombs are nowhere in Islam, but it has been interpreted over the years that to die thus makes one a martyr, which is a key theme of the Qu'ran.
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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Islam and Orthodoxy
« Reply #26 on: October 02, 2008, 01:13:58 PM »
Welcome, Theophilos, and thank you for your thoughtful reply.

There are many things in Islam which are not in the Qu'ran, but have been added later. For instance, the idea of suicide bombs are nowhere in Islam, but it has been interpreted over the years that to die thus makes one a martyr, which is a key theme of the Qu'ran.

Thanks for the welcome and your encouraging words.

Bless you!
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Offline GabrieltheCelt

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Re: Islam and Orthodoxy
« Reply #27 on: October 02, 2008, 05:36:53 PM »
Orthodox Christianity primarily had a great impact on Mohammad's theology in general. As he confirmed the Torah and certain tenets of Judaism to win the favour of Jews against Meccan pagans and to find allies in case of a war, he did the same by praising the monotheistic faith (Christian) of the Eastern Rome in his scripture. The 30th Surah (chapter) of the Koran is named after Eastern Romans (Rum in Arabic) and predicts the victory of the Roman army against pagans despite their recent defeat in the neighbouring area:

Surah Ar-Rum 30:2-5
The Romans have been defeated. In the nearer land, and they, after their defeat will be victorious. Within ten years - Allah's is the command in the former case and in the latter - and in that day believers will rejoice. In Allah's help to victory. He helpeth to victory whom He will. He is the Mighty, the Merciful.

The Koran also contains the story of the seven sleepers, and the 18th Surah of the Koran, which is named the Cave (Al-Kahf), narrates the miraculous story of those Christian saints in details.





Welcome Theophilos!
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Offline GabrieltheCelt

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Re: Islam and Orthodoxy
« Reply #28 on: October 02, 2008, 05:53:47 PM »

There are many things in Islam which are not in the Qu'ran, but have been added later.
Such as the Hadith which is used in part to interpret the meaning of the Qur'an.  The two main branches of Islam, Shi'at ul Ali (Shi'a) and the Sunni, have different hadith in which they consult.  I'm not as well versed in Sunni Islam, but I believe the method they use to interpret the Qur'an is called Asbab al nazul, which identifies the reason each verse was given so as to put it in context for future understanding. 

For instance, the idea of suicide bombs are nowhere in Islam, but it has been interpreted over the years that to die thus makes one a martyr, which is a key theme of the Qu'ran.
Martyrdom is honored in many of the sects of Islam, esp in Shi'a Islam (the state religion of Iran for example).  And although the way to martyrdom is drastically different in Orthodoxy, it is highly honored with us as well.   The wahhabist interpretation of Sunni Islam is fairly new, having it's origins in the 19th cent by Muhammad al Wahhab in what is now, I understand, in Sa'udi Arabia.

Other sects such as the Druze, Alawi, Sufi, Isma'ili, and Twelvers, as well as Islam as it's understood in Central Asia and the Caucus is even more unique and generally devoid of such radical ideology.

Going back to the early years of Islam, when Muhammad was alive, it's been noted by various Orthodox saints as a Christian sect.  Of coarse, what we see today on the evening news is something radically different.

Edit:Clarification
« Last Edit: October 02, 2008, 05:58:34 PM by GabrieltheCelt »
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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Islam and Orthodoxy
« Reply #29 on: October 03, 2008, 08:47:16 AM »
Welcome Theophilos!

Thanks Gabriel :)

The reverence paid to the Virgin throughout the Koran illustrates the influence Orthodox Christianity had on Islam. In several verses the authors of the Koran feel themselves obliged to praise Mary whenever they refer to Jesus. It is by no means a coincidence that the Koran lay emphasis on the Virgin's chastity and adapt some of the narratives in the apocryphal Gospels to the Islamic teaching with the help of a few textual modifications on the original texts. The long narrative relating Panaghia's birth and dedication to the Temple occurs in the third Surah of the Koran, and is apparently adopted from the Gospel of James.






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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Islam and Orthodoxy
« Reply #30 on: October 03, 2008, 11:45:04 AM »
Welcome Theophilos!

Thanks Gabriel :)

The reverence paid to the Virgin throughout the Koran illustrates the influence Orthodox Christianity had on Islam. In several verses the authors of the Koran feel themselves obliged to praise Mary whenever they refer to Jesus. It is by no means a coincidence that the Koran lay emphasis on the Virgin's chastity and adapt some of the narratives in the apocryphal Gospels to the Islamic teaching with the help of a few textual modifications on the original texts. The long narrative relating Panaghia's birth and dedication to the Temple occurs in the third Surah of the Koran, and is apparently adopted from the Gospel of James.


This reminds me of my Grandmother who loved the Virgin Theotokos so much that she would say something like "the Muslims are more Christian and worth more praise than those disrespectful and godawful Protestants."  She could not imagine a Christianity without praise and respect to the Theotokos, as opposed to the polemical idea that some Protestants believe she's a mere tool of God.

Even in the case of the miracle of the Virgin's appearance at a Coptic church in Zeitoun, the Islamic-dominated government also paid respects to the authenticity of the miracle.

God bless.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2008, 11:46:46 AM by minasoliman »
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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Islam and Orthodoxy
« Reply #31 on: October 04, 2008, 04:32:33 PM »
This reminds me of my Grandmother who loved the Virgin Theotokos so much that she would say something like "the Muslims are more Christian and worth more praise than those disrespectful and godawful Protestants."  She could not imagine a Christianity without praise and respect to the Theotokos, as opposed to the polemical idea that some Protestants believe she's a mere tool of God.

Even in the case of the miracle of the Virgin's appearance at a Coptic church in Zeitoun, the Islamic-dominated government also paid respects to the authenticity of the miracle.

God bless.

:D

Protestants have lots of things to learn from Muslims about Panaghia. It is ironic that the members of a non-Christian religion venerate Panaghia more than Jesus' true followers. I hope the Reformists will be aware of their mistakes.

Blessings to you!


« Last Edit: October 04, 2008, 04:33:07 PM by Theophilos78 »
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Islam and Orthodoxy
« Reply #32 on: October 04, 2008, 11:44:42 PM »
This reminds me of my Grandmother who loved the Virgin Theotokos so much that she would say something like "the Muslims are more Christian and worth more praise than those disrespectful and godawful Protestants."  She could not imagine a Christianity without praise and respect to the Theotokos, as opposed to the polemical idea that some Protestants believe she's a mere tool of God.

Even in the case of the miracle of the Virgin's appearance at a Coptic church in Zeitoun, the Islamic-dominated government also paid respects to the authenticity of the miracle.

God bless.

:D

Protestants have lots of things to learn from Muslims about Panaghia. It is ironic that the members of a non-Christian religion venerate Panaghia more than Jesus' true followers. I hope the Reformists will be aware of their mistakes.

Blessings to you!

And blessings to you too.  Welcome to the forum :)
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If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline Thomas

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Re: Islam and Orthodoxy
« Reply #33 on: October 08, 2008, 08:55:11 AM »
There is an interesting article in this month's issue of "The Word" magazine on the Antiochian Orthodox Church website located at
www.antiochian.org/sites/antiochian.org/files/OCTOBER%20%202008%20WORD.pdf.pdf   It was presented to the annual clergy meeting at Ligoner Pa.

Thomas
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Offline Vladik

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Re: Islam and Orthodoxy
« Reply #34 on: May 05, 2009, 11:40:25 PM »
Post moved from If you want to help a christian that losing his faith then please help me, since the subject of this post struck me as largely irrelevant to the topic presented on that thread...  Good post, though.  Thanks for the info. ;)  -PeterTheAleut


According to Koran and Muslim Sunnah: Allah is not Love, has no humility, proude and isn't holy, he is cunning fellow (see Koran 86.16) who «deceives» (Koran 4.141), source of evil, doesn't want for all people to be saved (32:13) created some people especialy for hell (7.179). aLLAH jeerS at some people leading them astray (2.14; 7.178, 186)...

Compare it with our Holy Bible, the real Afflatus of real Living God:
"God is love, and whoever remains in love remains in God, and God remains in him" (1 John 4:15)   "God our Savior who desires all people to be saved and to come to the full knowledge of the truth." (1Tim.2:4)
"Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways ( Ezekiel 33:11)

Here you can find some great Orthodox articles against Muslim false doctrine (in English, Russian and Bulgurian) - http://pravoslavie-i-islam.ru/indexeng.htm

Such as: "Holy Fathers about Islam", "Articles of Contemporary Orthodox Authors", "Orthodox Mission in Muslim World", "Works of non-orthodox Missionaries", "Testimonies of Muslims, who became Christians", "Materials about History of Islam" etc.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2009, 03:27:46 AM by PeterTheAleut »

Offline recent convert

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Re: Islam and Orthodoxy
« Reply #35 on: May 06, 2009, 08:20:55 AM »
Antiochian OC N.A.

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Re: Islam and Orthodoxy
« Reply #36 on: May 06, 2009, 11:55:31 AM »
One of the major impacts Islam had on Orthodoxy, within the Ottoman Empire, was the division of their subject peoples into millets, according to religion with no regard to race, language or geography. All Orthodox were in the Greek millet. This had a massive impact on fusing Orthodoxy and nationalism, as the Serbian Orthodox church strove to maintain its life, language and culture against Greek hellenising pressure, thus fusing the Serbian Orthodox church and Serbian nationalism in Serbia's struggle against Greek religious and Turkish political dominion, and as the Greek Orthodox church strove for Greek independence from Turkey, thus advancing the idea that Greek=Orthodox=Greek. Nationalism became so intertwined with religion that it persists today, so that a crippling and unseemly feature of Orthodoxy in the Balkans is its close entanglement with politics. Greece would like to annex southern Albania - which they call Northern Epirus (having already acquired Çamëria); Serbia tried to 'cleanse' Kosova of Islam with a view to re-settling displaced Serbs there and creating a pure Orthodox region.

This is deeply regrettable, for there is much in Orthodoxy that is attractive and of potential benefit in enriching the wider Body of Christ, but the Church in those places makes itself seen to its outsiders as largely an implement in the control of Greek or Serbian expansionism, lacking the appeal of that grace and humility which we see in our Lord's invitations to sinful men and women to come to him and never be cast out.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2009, 11:55:59 AM by David Young »
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Offline Michael L

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Re: Islam and Orthodoxy
« Reply #37 on: May 06, 2009, 12:14:31 PM »
Check out this clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u84S0JcgoIk
It briefly mentions how Islam adopted prostrations from Christianity...

Prayers,
Faith

Any other parts of this?

I notice how he says that during the rise in persecution, the number of monks has gone from 10 to over a 100.  The world just doesn't get it.

Here is the entire episode of the clip posted above: http://orthodoxfathers.org/?p=261

Offline Elpidophoros

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Re: Islam and Orthodoxy
« Reply #38 on: May 06, 2009, 02:08:49 PM »
This reminds me of my Grandmother who loved the Virgin Theotokos so much that she would say something like "the Muslims are more Christian and worth more praise than those disrespectful and godawful Protestants."  She could not imagine a Christianity without praise and respect to the Theotokos, as opposed to the polemical idea that some Protestants believe she's a mere tool of God.

Even in the case of the miracle of the Virgin's appearance at a Coptic church in Zeitoun, the Islamic-dominated government also paid respects to the authenticity of the miracle.

God bless.

:D

Protestants have lots of things to learn from Muslims about Panaghia. It is ironic that the members of a non-Christian religion venerate Panaghia more than Jesus' true followers. I hope the Reformists will be aware of their mistakes.

Blessings to you!




"Protestants=Jesus' true followers"??? >:(

Offline Dan-Romania

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Re: Islam and Orthodoxy
« Reply #39 on: May 06, 2009, 02:25:49 PM »
Otomans venerat Mary ? Cool ! I have a sympathy for all the peoples of the world and cultures . By the way how is it with that Miracle of Panaghia in Syria of the young Saudi Arabian muslim ? Answer me in one of the Marian threads . Peace ! I sense a good vibe from Turkey .
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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Islam and Orthodoxy
« Reply #40 on: May 06, 2009, 04:26:39 PM »

"Protestants=Jesus' true followers"??? >:(

NO :)

I meant Christians when I said "Jesus' true followers" in contrast to Muslims (non-Christians)
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Re: Islam and Orthodoxy
« Reply #41 on: October 30, 2011, 12:46:03 PM »
I hate to bump such an old thread, but does anybody have any more information on this subject? I am wanting to do a series on my blog that shows how Orthodoxy influenced Mohammed while he was inventing Islam. I would greatly appreciate any sources any one might have, as well as personal experiences from those who converted from Islam to Orthodoxy.
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Re: Islam and Orthodoxy
« Reply #42 on: October 30, 2011, 10:50:14 PM »
I hate to bump such an old thread, but does anybody have any more information on this subject? I am wanting to do a series on my blog that shows how Orthodoxy influenced Mohammed while he was inventing Islam. I would greatly appreciate any sources any one might have, as well as personal experiences from those who converted from Islam to Orthodoxy.

Well, I'm not sure it was Orthodoxy.  It's widely believed that it was Nestorian Christianity that influenced Mohammed.
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline Nephi

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Re: Islam and Orthodoxy
« Reply #43 on: October 31, 2011, 08:58:18 PM »
http://www.amazon.com/Encounter-Eastern-Christianity-Early-Islam/dp/9004149384/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1320108941&sr=8-3

There's an essay in this book that discusses the usage of, if I'm remembering correctly, Ethiopian words for Biblical persons by early Muslims/Muhammad. This book in general is good for such a topic, check it out if you can.

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Re: Islam and Orthodoxy
« Reply #44 on: November 01, 2011, 12:12:00 AM »
I hate to bump such an old thread, but does anybody have any more information on this subject? I am wanting to do a series on my blog that shows how Orthodoxy influenced Mohammed while he was inventing Islam. I would greatly appreciate any sources any one might have, as well as personal experiences from those who converted from Islam to Orthodoxy.

Well, I'm not sure it was Orthodoxy.  It's widely believed that it was Nestorian Christianity that influenced Mohammed.

Well I was thinking more along the lines of certain things - like the prostrations, praying x amount of times a day, chanting, and possibly architecture - more so than I was thinking theology.

http://www.amazon.com/Encounter-Eastern-Christianity-Early-Islam/dp/9004149384/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1320108941&sr=8-3

There's an essay in this book that discusses the usage of, if I'm remembering correctly, Ethiopian words for Biblical persons by early Muslims/Muhammad. This book in general is good for such a topic, check it out if you can.

Thank you, I will try to check out the book when my time permits. If any one had links to anything I could actually read on the web that would be great; given my current location (a base in Iraq that is about to be closed to US military) it would be far easier, though I may just have to wait until I return home before I start serious research on this subject.
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