Author Topic: Discussions on the need of Antimens or Antimension  (Read 3133 times)

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Discussions on the need of Antimens or Antimension
« on: September 07, 2008, 02:05:45 AM »
No DL by a priest can be celebrated except by permission of the bishop, signified by his bestowal of the antimens "instead of the table," i.e. altar i.e. the Bishop's altar.

Do the Bishops need an antimens to celebrate on their own altars, or is their presence enough?

When the bishop visits, does the priest still need to have his antimens, or is the bishop's presence enough?

And if any OO are lurking, do you have antimens?
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Offline SolEX01

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Re: Discussions on the need of Antimens or Antimension
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2008, 06:26:40 PM »
Do the Bishops need an antimens to celebrate on their own altars, or is their presence enough?
When the bishop visits, does the priest still need to have his antimens, or is the bishop's presence enough?
And if any OO are lurking, do you have antimens?

Just curious - why do you ask?

Here's a definition of antimens from an OCA Church Website in Ohio:

Quote
It is a rectangular piece of cloth with representations of the entombment of Christ, the four Evangelists, and scriptural passages related to the Eucharist. The antimens must be consecrated by the head of the church and always lie on the Altar Table. No sacrament, especially the Divine Liturgy, can be performed without a consecrated antimens.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2008, 06:30:36 PM by SolEX01 »

Offline Basil 320

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Re: Discussions on the need of Antimens or Antimension
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2008, 08:50:23 PM »
I would think they need one to celebrate a liturgy, but it's probably their own, or perhaps their predecessor's. I do not know, canonically speaking; however, I would doubt if they do need "antimines" (sp), from their synod or from the first hierarch of a synod, given their authority within their diocese, i.e. "Icon of Christ," and because they create them for their parishes after church consecretions, signing their name to them.  When the bishop visits one of his parishes, he uses the "antimines" that are on that parish's Holy Table."
« Last Edit: September 07, 2008, 08:54:24 PM by Basil 320 »
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Offline alexp4uni

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Re: Discussions on the need of Antimens or Antimension
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2008, 11:06:44 PM »


It seems that the Syriac Church have used an antimension flowing from the altar as a way to properly set the Diskos and Chalice on top of it. Though the Syriac and Indian form of altars differ due to the Portugese influencing the Indians in Latin styles Step altars. It would be the Syrians that have a square box with pillars on top of it . In any form of the altar the antimension is properly shown (or not properly shown due to the priest being in front of it) on top of it displaying the mysteries during the exclaimation of an Anaphora while being covering in a white veil. So in some sense the cloth is used as some type of "icon" or fancy piece when the Curtain is open. Also the antimension is needed for artificially temporary altars as well. Whether its needed for consecration I dont know.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2008, 11:12:23 PM by alexp4uni »

Offline arimethea

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Re: Discussions on the need of Antimens or Antimension
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2008, 12:07:42 AM »
Do the Bishops need an antimens to celebrate on their own altars, or is their presence enough?

When the bishop visits, does the priest still need to have his antimens, or is the bishop's presence enough?
The liturgical rite that is in use today requires an antimens in order to be served properly. So why theological and technically a Bishop doesn't need an atimension, the rite dictates the necessity of an antimension.
Joseph

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Re: Discussions on the need of Antimens or Antimension
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2008, 01:33:11 AM »
Do the Bishops need an antimens to celebrate on their own altars, or is their presence enough?
When the bishop visits, does the priest still need to have his antimens, or is the bishop's presence enough?
And if any OO are lurking, do you have antimens?

Just curious - why do you ask?

For the first question, it came up during an discussion on the difference in the conception of priesthood between the Orthodox (and I guess, but don't know those of the East under the Vatican) and the Latin church.  They conceive of a priest being seperate from their bishop: hence, for instance a defrocked can validly, but illicitely (to use their terms) say mass.  Ours cannot.
On the last question, just want to know.


Fixed quote tags to make post more readable...  nothing more...  -PtA
« Last Edit: September 08, 2008, 04:45:33 PM by PeterTheAleut »
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Re: Discussions on the need of Antimens or Antimension
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2008, 01:36:06 AM »
Do the Bishops need an antimens to celebrate on their own altars, or is their presence enough?

When the bishop visits, does the priest still need to have his antimens, or is the bishop's presence enough?
The liturgical rite that is in use today requires an antimens in order to be served properly. So why theological and technically a Bishop doesn't need an atimension, the rite dictates the necessity of an antimension.
My priest told me today that the bishop does when he visits, just because all antimens here are from the metropolitan.  When the latter visits, no, he doesnt' need one.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline arimethea

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Re: Discussions on the need of Antimens or Antimension
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2008, 04:26:20 PM »
Do the Bishops need an antimens to celebrate on their own altars, or is their presence enough?

When the bishop visits, does the priest still need to have his antimens, or is the bishop's presence enough?
The liturgical rite that is in use today requires an antimens in order to be served properly. So why theological and technically a Bishop doesn't need an atimension, the rite dictates the necessity of an antimension.
My priest told me today that the bishop does when he visits, just because all antimens here are from the metropolitan.  When the latter visits, no, he doesnt' need one.
Well your priest is wrong, I just served with your Metropolitian yesterday and he did indeed use an antimens with his own signature. Like I said before the Byzantine rite of Litrugy requires the use of an antimens in order to be served correctly.
Joseph

Offline Altar Server

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Re: Discussions on the need of Antimens or Antimension
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2010, 10:34:19 PM »
Glory to Jesus Christ !

I was wondering if a church had a holy table that contained the relics of a saint would they still HAVE TO use the Antimension.
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Offline Melodist

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Re: Discussions on the need of Antimens or Antimension
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2010, 10:54:56 PM »
According to Fr Thomas Hopko:

http://www.oca.org/OCchapter.asp?SID=2&ID=44
Quote
On the altar table one always finds the antimension. This is the cloth depicting Christ in the tomb which contains the signature of the bishop and is the permission for the local community to gather as the Church. "Antimension" means literally "instead of the table." Since the bishop is the proper pastor of the Church, the antimension is used instead of the bishop's own table which is, obviously, in his own church building, the cathedral -- the place where the bishop has his chair (cathedra).
And FWIW, these are our Fathers too, you know.

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