OrthodoxChristianity.net
October 01, 2014, 06:59:26 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Let women hear confession and grant absolution, says bishop  (Read 3033 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
sinjinsmythe
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 737



« on: August 28, 2003, 04:41:10 PM »

Let women hear confession and grant absolution, says bishop
By Jonathan Petre, Religion Correspondent
(Filed: 28/08/2003)


Women should be allowed to hear confessions and absolve sinners, a Roman Catholic bishop has suggested.

Bishop Vincent Malone, auxiliary bishop in Liverpool, said that the Church should consider choosing lay women to be confessors because some people might prefer disclosing their sins to a woman rather than a man.

Writing in a new book, he also said that other sacraments reserved for the all-male clergy might be opened to lay people, including the annointing of the sick.

Bishop Malone said he was merely raising questions rather than "starting a revolution", and stressed that any reforms would have to be agreed by the whole Church before they could be implemented.

But his radical views will challenge the traditional image of the male priest hearing confessions and reignite the debate over the role of women in the Church.

Bishop Malone's comments will carry particular weight because he is the liaison between the English and Welsh Bishops' Conference and the National Board of Catholic Women.

In his contribution to Healing Priesthood: Women's Voices Worldwide, he said the Church's tradition "may sometimes seem only to inhibit the freedom to engage with difficult questions".

But some practices could be varied. Although the Pope had ruled out women priests, the Church had "not so ruled in other areas which might yield surprising fruit".

He added: "It is not difficult to conceive circumstances in which a female minister could more appropriately than a man be the receiver of the humble confession that opens a soul to hear the glad words of the Lord's forgiveness.

"Common practice in our society today would expect equal access in many professions to either a man or a woman at the client's choice. It would be an unusual medical practice that did not have both male and female practitioners. Similarly with a firm of solicitors or a team of counsellors.

"Has the time come to expect a similar availability in even more sacred areas of our lives - without thinking that this is impossible without the ordination of women?"

The bishop argued that the Church broadly decreed that only priests could administer the sacraments, and yet lay people were involved in the sacrament of marriage and, in cases of necessity, the sacrament of baptism.

He told The Catholic Herald that he was "not banging a drum" or trying to prompt disobedience among Catholics, but was merely issuing a "gentle invitation to reflect".

Such reforms might "in part answer the complaint that women can't do anything" in the Church.

But while liberals, including fellow bishops, will welcome his ideas, the newspaper said in an editorial: "The simple answer is that the time has not come for such a thing."

The bishop's comments follow the decision by some churches and cathedrals to introduce glass-fronted confessionals after a series of sex scandals in the Church.

The aim is to allow others to see what is happening, protecting children and adults from any risk of abuse by priests and to protect priests from false allegations.

Logged

Life is just one disappointment after another.
Elisha
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 4,423


« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2003, 04:48:03 PM »

This seems to be another one of those RCC let-veryone-do-everything-that-the-priest-should-be-doing ploys.  Nonesense - just like letting lay people hand out communion.

Can't anyone (in the Orthdoox Church as well) hear a confession anyway?  They just can't give absolution - only the priest can, which is part of their job.
Logged
the slave
intolerant of intolerance
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Catholic
Jurisdiction: UGCC
Posts: 810



« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2003, 04:48:11 PM »

well that renders me speechless !

I am NOT in favour
Logged

"Never let anyone try to tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern. The West was fully Orthodox for a thousand years; and her venerable liturgy is far older than any of her heresies."
- St. John Maximovitch
Frobie
Quasi Vero Monaco
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 633


Rublev's Trinity


WWW
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2003, 05:44:53 PM »

Well, St. Symeon the New Theologian thought lay monks could do the same thing.

And, as if they need another woman to talk to!!!
Logged
Linus7
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,780



« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2003, 12:01:10 AM »

Quote
"Common practice in our society today would expect equal access in many professions to either a man or a woman at the client's choice. It would be an unusual medical practice that did not have both male and female practitioners. Similarly with a firm of solicitors or a team of counsellors."

That ought to show that Bishop Malone does not really understand the sacrament of confession. He seems to see it as just another form of professional service like counseling.

Women hearing confessions and granting absolution is the backdoor into the priesthood, and that is the ultimate goal of the bishop's "gentle invitation to reflect."
Logged

The first condition of salvation is to keep the norm of the true faith and in no way to deviate from the established doctrine of the Fathers.
- Pope St. Hormisdas
Byzantino
Me Ortodox
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 353


Orthodox Christian


« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2003, 03:42:36 AM »

Do you think excessive Marian devotion may have something to do with it? Just a thought.

Byzantino
Logged
Robert
"Amazing"
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,442



« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2003, 08:08:54 AM »

Byzantino,

I can't tell if your message attempted to convey a tad of sarcasm or not.  Either way, if anything, LACK of Marian devotion among Roman Catholics has spawned craziness like this.

If Roman Catholics understood the unique role of the Theotokos as both God Bearer and Nurturer, they would have no problem realizing the proper role of women in society and the important part they play in having, nuturing, and raising our children.

Now personally, I don't think there can really be such a thing as excessive Marian devotion as long as her role is understood, as our Heavenly Mother, our Intercessor, and the hope of all Christians.

Bobby
Logged
Keble
All-Knowing Grand Wizard of Debunking
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,418



« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2003, 09:36:44 AM »

Quote
"Common practice in our society today would expect equal access in many professions to either a man or a woman at the client's choice. It would be an unusual medical practice that did not have both male and female practitioners. Similarly with a firm of solicitors or a team of counsellors."

That ought to show that Bishop Malone does not really understand the sacrament of confession. He seems to see it as just another form of professional service like counseling.

Women hearing confessions and granting absolution is the backdoor into the priesthood, and that is the ultimate goal of the bishop's "gentle invitation to reflect."


I'm betting on Linus's theory, though I would also point out that the persistent shortage of Catholic priests in the USA plays into this as well.
Logged
Frobie
Quasi Vero Monaco
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 633


Rublev's Trinity


WWW
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2003, 03:05:32 PM »

Yeah, the prots have had "priestesses" for year and absolutely no Marian devotion!
Logged
the slave
intolerant of intolerance
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Catholic
Jurisdiction: UGCC
Posts: 810



« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2003, 05:08:31 PM »

Sinjin,

Out of pure curiosity, from where did this article come ?
Logged

"Never let anyone try to tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern. The West was fully Orthodox for a thousand years; and her venerable liturgy is far older than any of her heresies."
- St. John Maximovitch
sinjinsmythe
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 737



« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2003, 06:23:01 PM »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/08/28/nconfes28.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/08/28/ixhome.html
Logged

Life is just one disappointment after another.
the slave
intolerant of intolerance
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Catholic
Jurisdiction: UGCC
Posts: 810



« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2003, 06:30:04 PM »

Thanks for that - missed it completely
Logged

"Never let anyone try to tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern. The West was fully Orthodox for a thousand years; and her venerable liturgy is far older than any of her heresies."
- St. John Maximovitch
Ebor
Vanyar
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 6,421



« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2003, 11:24:06 AM »


... they would have no problem realizing the proper role of women in society and the important part they play in having, nuturing, and raising our children.


What is your idea of the "proper role of women in society"?  Also, men have a hand in nuturing and raising children as well, I should think. (Diapers and sick children aren't just for Mother any more.)

Just to be clear, the suggestion in the article gives me a pain.  Confession is a sacrament and not just another form of counselling.  And, yes, I have been to Confession.  Anglicans have it too.

Ebor

modified as I can't seem to spell today
« Last Edit: August 30, 2003, 11:28:07 AM by Ebor » Logged

"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.
Ebor
Vanyar
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 6,421



« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2003, 09:03:29 AM »

Yeah, the prots have had "priestesses" for year and absolutely no Marian devotion!

ummm, could "prots" please not be used?

Ebor
Logged

"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.
the slave
intolerant of intolerance
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Catholic
Jurisdiction: UGCC
Posts: 810



« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2003, 09:49:45 AM »

And I'll add to that,
please also ensure that the other very offensive , to me,  terms  that are commonly heard over here and in Ireland , are not used either.
Logged

"Never let anyone try to tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern. The West was fully Orthodox for a thousand years; and her venerable liturgy is far older than any of her heresies."
- St. John Maximovitch
Hypo-Ortho
Guest
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2003, 11:32:34 AM »

And I'll add to that,
please also ensure that the other very offensive , to me,  terms  that are commonly heard over here and in Ireland , are not used either.

Slave, which terms exactly are you referring to?   I read and re-read the entire thread, and, for the life of me, I don't know which terms you're referring to or who made them.   Due to different cultural usages perhaps?  At any rate, I didn't see anything referring to Roman Catholics in the same way as to Protestants.

Hypo-Ortho
Logged
the slave
intolerant of intolerance
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Catholic
Jurisdiction: UGCC
Posts: 810



« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2003, 05:13:49 PM »

Sorry about that Hypo -

 I was actually referring to other expressions for Protestants that are basically , and offensively, used here - I suspect Ebor and Keble have heard them and no doubt Brigid too .

My brain was obviously not working too well at that point  - too early in the morning and I had just opened the post and found a rather nice present - a copy of the Kursk Root Icon of the Mother of God - so I was rather distracted Smiley
Logged

"Never let anyone try to tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern. The West was fully Orthodox for a thousand years; and her venerable liturgy is far older than any of her heresies."
- St. John Maximovitch
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.078 seconds with 45 queries.