Author Topic: Does anybody know these words?  (Read 15147 times)

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Offline Myrrh23

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Does anybody know these words?
« on: August 31, 2008, 12:02:29 AM »
Does anyone know the Enlgish translation of this song, Defte Lai:

"Defte Lai, apandes simfonos. Hriston animnisomem, ton en tovaptiz mati. (x2) Pandas imas, ekatha randa"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcpUnZ_ghdA&feature=related
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Offline ytterbiumanalyst

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Re: Does anybody know these words?
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2008, 10:36:36 AM »
It strikes me as Greek, so I asked my wife, who took Greek in college. She says that "ekatha" is related to the word "katharizo", meaning "to cleanse." Beyond that, she's not sure. It may not be Greek but rather a language with many Greek roots. She doesn't recognize anything else.
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Offline ignatios

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Re: Does anybody know these words?
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2008, 12:22:55 PM »
I googled the singer, Divna Ljubojevic.  It looks like she's Serbian.  Here's some Serbian Orthodox music with her as one of the performers: http://www.sv-luka.org/chants/index.html

Offline SolEX01

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Re: Does anybody know these words?
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2008, 01:49:41 PM »
The first two words are translated as "Come ye people."

I think the hymn is from Holy Week based on what I saw at the YouTube site.  I thumbed through my Holy Week book and the hymn doesn't appear in it.

Offline Heorhij

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Re: Does anybody know these words?
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2008, 02:47:00 PM »
"Simphonos" apparently means "in one voice," or "making a sound all together."

"Animnisomem" ("-men?") souds like a derivative from "anamnesis" ("recollection" or "rememberance") (see, my medical background shows!)

"Tovaptiz" may be a derivative of "baptismo" (Baptism; Greeks can pronounce their "betas" as "v," like in "presviteros," "vasileos").

So, it's something like, "come people, let's all sing in one voice, remembering Christ, as we all have been baptized; all of us, who have been cleansed."
« Last Edit: August 31, 2008, 03:18:35 PM by Heorhij »
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Offline orthodoxlurker

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Re: Does anybody know these words?
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2008, 02:51:48 PM »
In the comments there someone said it's Coine Greek / Ancient Greek.

It's not Serbian.
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Offline Heorhij

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Re: Does anybody know these words?
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2008, 03:19:50 PM »
In the comments there someone said it's Coine Greek / Ancient Greek.

It's not Serbian.

Certainly. I don't know Serbian, but as a Slav, I can tell right away that the language is not Slavic.

Divna often sings in Greek.
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Offline orthodoxlurker

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Re: Does anybody know these words?
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2008, 03:48:23 PM »
Certainly. I don't know Serbian, but as a Slav, I can tell right away that the language is not Slavic.

Divna often sings in Greek.

Definitely not Slavic.

Sounds like some kind of Greek.
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Offline Heorhij

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Re: Does anybody know these words?
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2008, 05:46:23 PM »
Definitely not Slavic.

Sounds like some kind of Greek.

I was 100% sure it was Greek the moment I saw "simfonos" (symphonos), "Animnisomem," "lai," "ton," "panda" (panta?), etc.

It's weird to me that those who went to schools in the USA (even to colleges...?) are not able to recognize these most definite Greek traits.. 

Anyway, let's wait for Ozgeorge, Pentaseomnia, and others whose native tongue is Greek.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2008, 05:47:12 PM by Heorhij »
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Offline ozgeorge

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Re: Does anybody know these words?
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2008, 06:40:47 PM »
Divna Ljubojevic is indeed Serbian, but she also chants in Greek, and she is doing so here.

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Offline Heorhij

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Re: Does anybody know these words?
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2008, 05:56:50 PM »
Divna Ljubojevic is indeed Serbian, but she also chants in Greek, and she is doing so here.



Good to have the site back!

So, George, was I any close? "Come people, let's all sing in one voice, remembering Christ, as we all have been baptized; all of us, who have been cleansed." -?
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Offline ozgeorge

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Re: Does anybody know these words?
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2008, 07:41:38 PM »
So, George, was I any close? "Come people, let's all sing in one voice, remembering Christ, as we all have been baptized; all of us, who have been cleansed." -?

I think you are close. I don't recognize the hymn, perhaps pensatomnia can, but to me it sounds like:

"defte lai" (come people)
"apantes symphonos" (together with one voice)
"Hriston an ymnisomen" (let us hymn Christ)
"ton en to batismati" (Who in baptism)
"pantas emas ekatharanta" (cleansed all of us)
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Offline Myrrh23

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Re: Does anybody know these words?
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2008, 12:50:03 AM »
Didn't know your native tongue was Greek, OzGeorge! KEWL! ;D

I've been trying to learn Greek on my own. Right now, I'm working on my numbers and letters, though I keep forgetting the number 10 (theka, with th as in then). Later, I'll do diphthongs and consonants, using websites and good 'ol YouTube! :)

I know this may be silly, but those translations don't agree with this online translator I found <English to Greek>, Oz. Why not? :(

http://www.systran.jp/english-greek-translation/greek-translator-online.htm
« Last Edit: September 05, 2008, 01:04:25 AM by Myrrh23 »
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Offline SolEX01

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Re: Does anybody know these words?
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2008, 03:20:11 AM »
I've been trying to learn Greek on my own. Right now, I'm working on my numbers and letters, though I keep forgetting the number 10 (theka, with th as in then). Later, I'll do diphthongs and consonants, using websites and good 'ol YouTube! :)

The number 10 is deca (pronounced deka).  A decameter is 10 meters.  A decaliter is 10 liters.  The Greek word for decade is δεκαετια which literally translates as 10 (deka) years (etia - plural of etos).

I know this may be silly, but those translations don't agree with this online translator I found <English to Greek>, Oz. Why not? :(

The ones from babelfish tend to be a little better except that a translator will translate word for word and not take into account proper grammar, slang, etc.

Offline Myrrh23

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Re: Does anybody know these words?
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2008, 03:30:01 AM »
The number 10 is deca (pronounced deka).  A decameter is 10 meters.  A decaliter is 10 liters.  The Greek word for decade is δεκαετια which literally translates as 10 (deka) years (etia - plural of etos).

Then why are these sources pronouncing it as a th? Jeez. This is frustrating.... :( So delta is suppose to be spoken as a 'D'?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wc60SDsTcmk

http://www.explorecrete.com/various/greek-language.htm
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Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: Does anybody know these words?
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2008, 05:04:54 AM »
Then why are these sources pronouncing it as a th? Jeez. This is frustrating.... :( So delta is suppose to be spoken as a 'D'?

Not in modern Greek. SolEX01 must have slipped up in his post - "Th" is correct.
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Offline Heorhij

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Re: Does anybody know these words?
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2008, 07:43:35 AM »
I'm working on my numbers and letters, though I keep forgetting the number 10 (theka, with th as in then).

This is something I always tell my students. Most of them graduated from the US schools and have almost no concept of the metric system, and it bothers me, because in science everything is always measured in units based on the metric system. So, I (even though I do not know the Greek language), always try to teach my students that "deca" (or theca) means ten, "santi" - hundred; "mili" (Latin origin) - thousand, or one thousandth part; "micro" indicates a one millionth part, "nano" - one billionth, "pico" - one trillionth, "femto" - one quadrillionth (10E-15).
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Offline ozgeorge

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Re: Does anybody know these words?
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2008, 07:57:34 AM »
I know this may be silly, but those translations don't agree with this online translator I found <English to Greek>, Oz. Why not? :(
The translator attempts to translate into modern Greek (demotiki). Church uses "Koine" (prnounced "Ki-ni"), which is a much older form of Greek.
When studying their language, Greek students actually have to learn three different (but related) forms of Greek:
Koine:- The ancient form used in the New Testament and the Church.
Katharevousa:- A form of Greek midway between ancient and modern Greek invented in the 19th century and still used for official documents.
Demotiki- The Greek spoken and written in modern everyday use.
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Offline ytterbiumanalyst

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Re: Does anybody know these words?
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2008, 08:40:12 AM »
The ones from babelfish tend to be a little better except that a translator will translate word for word and not take into account proper grammar, slang, etc.
If my students insist on using an online translator, I usually direct them to Babelfish, as it is one of the better ones--but you are correct in that idioms and slang often translate poorly, and you get the equivalent of Engrish. Babelfish might, say, tell you that "to punch the streets" is the same as "to hit the road."

For all its many uses, the Internet still can't compare to a lexicon for translation purposes.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2008, 08:40:48 AM by ytterbiumanalyst »
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Offline Heorhij

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Re: Does anybody know these words?
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2008, 08:57:25 AM »
I think you are close. I don't recognize the hymn, perhaps pensatomnia can, but to me it sounds like:

"defte lai" (come people)
"apantes symphonos" (together with one voice)
"Hriston an ymnisomen" (let us hymn Christ)
"ton en to batismati" (Who in baptism)
"pantas emas ekatharanta" (cleansed all of us)

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Offline SolEX01

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Re: Does anybody know these words?
« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2008, 03:17:09 PM »
Not in modern Greek. SolEX01 must have slipped up in his post - "Th" is correct.

Not according to Divry's New English-Greek and Greek-English dictionary, which uses "D" rather than "Th" for deka.  AFAIK, we're talking about modern Greek and not ancient versions of Greek. 

Offline SolEX01

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Re: Does anybody know these words?
« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2008, 03:22:45 PM »
Then why are these sources pronouncing it as a th? Jeez. This is frustrating.... :( So delta is suppose to be spoken as a 'D'?

You are correct, delta is today's letter D and pronounced as a D.

My guess is that the sources are trying oversimplify things for non-English speakers.

Put it another way, the Greek word for decade is NOT Θεκαετια.  The Greek letter, theta (underlined letter), has the pronounciation of "Th" not "D."

Offline Myrrh23

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Re: Does anybody know these words?
« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2008, 08:36:13 PM »
Θ is spoken also with a th, but as in the word thin. Delta, in the modern language, is with a th as in then, right? :-\
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Offline SolEX01

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Re: Does anybody know these words?
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2008, 01:59:14 PM »
Θ is spoken also with a th, but as in the word thin. Delta, in the modern language, is with a th as in then, right? :-\

First half is correct.  For second half, delta is today's letter D pronounced like dog, duck, dig, etc.

Offline FrChris

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Re: Does anybody know these words?
« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2008, 04:28:34 PM »
Θ is spoken also with a th, but as in the word thin. Delta, in the modern language, is with a th as in then, right? :-\

First half is correct.  For second half, delta is today's letter D pronounced like dog, duck, dig, etc.

Hmm...that's not how I pronounce 'delta' in liturgical or modern Greek. Source

   
Quote
Delta  d  th as in then (but not thin); contrast theta below
 

Now, classical Greek may use delta as a 'd', but not so in Liturgical or Modern.

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Offline SolEX01

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Re: Does anybody know these words?
« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2008, 06:04:04 PM »
^Well, my modern Greek dictionary pretty much backs up Father Chris and others in that the modern delta is pronounced with a hard "th" sound.  Thanks Father Chris and my sincere apologies to everyone.   :-[ 
« Last Edit: September 06, 2008, 06:06:35 PM by SolEX01 »

Offline Apostolos

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Re: Does anybody know these words?
« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2008, 12:57:13 PM »
Does anyone know the Enlgish translation of this song, Defte Lai:

"Defte Lai, apandes simfonos. Hriston animnisomem, ton en tovaptiz mati. (x2) Pandas imas, ekatha randa"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcpUnZ_ghdA&feature=related
"Δεῦτε λαοί, ἅπαντες συμφώνως, Χριστόν ἀνυμνήσωμεν, Τόν ἐν τῷ βαπτίσματι, πάντας ἡμᾶς ἐκαθάραντα"

Quote from: Heorhij
"Simphonos" apparently means "in one voice," or "making a sound all together."

"Animnisomem" ("-men?") souds like a derivative from "anamnesis" ("recollection" or "rememberance") (see, my medical background shows!)

"Tovaptiz" may be a derivative of "baptismo" (Baptism; Greeks can pronounce their "betas" as "v," like in "presviteros," "vasileos").

So, it's something like, "come people, let's all sing in one voice, remembering Christ, as we all have been baptized; all of us, who have been cleansed."
...you sure you can't speak Greek?


It's a bit different though:
"come people, let us all sing/hymn=animnisomen (it's from the verb ἀνυμνῶ, to extoll in hymn/hymns. The "other" animnisomen you imply Heorhij that has something to do with anamnesis-rememberance should have been ἀναμιμνήσκομεν-anamimniskomen) Christ, who through His baptism, has cleansed us".
« Last Edit: September 23, 2008, 01:07:00 PM by Apostolos »
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Offline Heorhij

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Re: Does anybody know these words?
« Reply #27 on: September 23, 2008, 05:15:45 PM »
^Thank you, Apostolos.

No, I really don't speak Greek. I just went to good schools and learned a lot of Greek words, like "symphony," "anamnesis," "katharsis," and what not.

Plus, my granny was half-Greek! She did not know Greek, but maybe it's in my DNA! :)
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