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Author Topic: Does an Orthodox have to marry an Orthodox???  (Read 6794 times) Average Rating: 0
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PeterTheAleut
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« Reply #45 on: September 18, 2008, 04:44:51 PM »

The Holy Communion you omitted is the only means by which the marriage can be consumated in Christs precious Body and precious Blood.
Really?  I had always thought that a marriage is consummated through sexual relations.  According to your logic, how could marriage even exist before Christ gave us the Eucharist?  What was that, then, that Jesus attended at Cana?
« Last Edit: September 18, 2008, 04:46:26 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
AlexanderOfBergamo
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« Reply #46 on: September 18, 2008, 05:07:12 PM »

Quote
Really?  I had always thought that a marriage is consummated through sexual relations.  According to your logic, how could marriage even exist before Christ gave us the Eucharist?  What was that, then, that Jesus attended at Cana?
As some theologists say, Matrimony is chronologically the first sacrament: it preceeds even the Church!
By the way, the image of partaking in Holy Communion is taken from the traditional Jewish rite of marriage, where a cup of wine is passed and drunk by bride and bridegroom... I don't think Holy Communion is the rite by which the marriage is sealed: it's the Crowning.

As I don't like interdenominational marriages, I still prefer a civil marriage followed by the blessings of the ministers of both confessions: and blessing can't be denied even to the non-orthodox. Maybe in these rites, Holy Communion could be replaced by the Antidoron? That would be a good symbol of communion, a valid way to bless the couple, and it's also licit as antidoron can be offered to the heterodox too. What do you think about this?

In Christ,   Alex

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« Reply #47 on: September 18, 2008, 05:35:11 PM »

It would seem quite difficult for me to marry an Orthodox because of these requirements. It would have to be an EO who does not take her faith seriously, obviously, but why would I want to marry a secularized lapsed EO?

However, there is a very lovely Greek Orthodox girl whom I might ask out at some point. She finds the community life at local EO parishes to be dead, so she goes to an Evangelical church popular with young people (Park Street Church in Boston) every week and attends Divine Liturgy only occasionally. She even gets involved in various young adult social and spiritual gatherings (collectively called "Cafe") at Park Street. I know her through my brother, a Park Street attendee (I've only been to a couple of services at that church before---not my cup of tea at all!).

I suspect she is a branch theorist and does not take seriously the EO Church's claims to exclusivity, so she wouldn't object to allowing the kids to be raised Catholic.

Otherwise, I don't see how it would work out.

It seems to me that in a case of serious practitioners of Orthodoxy and another traditional Church/denomination, one or the other ends up converting.

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Eugenio
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« Reply #48 on: September 18, 2008, 06:12:46 PM »

Amdetsion wrote:

"I was amazed that you were able to direct the priest as to how the Marriage Rite would be performed."

In the case of the Catholic priest, this is common - insofar as the marriage rite under the Novus Ordo allows for certain choices. For example, we were able to pick out the Gospel readings during the ceremony - from about 3-4 pre-approved choices by the U.S. Council of Catholic Bishops.

"The Orthodox Church follows the same practice (regarding the eucharist).An Orthodox Christian should know this. This is not advanced theology."

No, the Orthodox Church has a very different theology regarding the eucharist. Priests are only allowed to give it out once daily. Catholic priests can give it out numerous times in one day. That's why the Catholic church allows (and even encourages) the sacrament of the eucharist at weddings and funerals - whereas I (and I assume some other Orthodox) would find this practice alien. Not making a judgement call here - but saying that this is a very significant departure from Orthodox practice.

"You had two Marriage Rites for one couple. One at the RC and one at the OC. This is something that really scares me everytime I here it."

This was the path recommended by my Orthodox priest - my father confessor! Being that both churches consider marriage a holy sacrament (or mystery, as the Orthodox call it) both want their own adherents married in their church. The Catholic Church recognizes the validity of Orthodox sacraments, and so my then-Catholic wife could have been married in the Orthodox Church and her church would have recognized the validity of the marriage sacrament. But being that the Orthodox Church does not reciprocate this, (to the best of my knowledge) I had to get married in an Orthodox Church. So we elected for a Catholic wedding in her hometown, and an Orthodox wedding where we lived. Thus we satisfied the canonical stipulations of both churches.

"How will you know which one was the truly binding one?

That's for Our Lord Jesus Christ to decide. I just wanted to follow the rules laid down by my bishop.

"Which priest shall council the marriage over the years?"

The father-confessor that the individual Christian adherent goes to, of course.

"I must say (please allow me) that It is so comforting for me that OO Churches do not perform anything like this. At lease not the Ethiopian Church. The Coptic as well for the most part."

Okay, so what do Oriental Orthodox churches do if one of the parties in the marriage is a Catholic?

"The Holy Sacrament are for the true believers 'only' for us that is the 'Orthodox'. We do not offer or 'share' these holiest of blessings with others."

The Catholic Church feels the same way about the eucharist as well, which is what the problem was when we were deciding upon a marriage ceremony. 

"That you were able to make your own changes and omissions to one of the holiest Rites of Christianity and that you did because of the concern of "friends" is quite remarkable."

Again the Novus Ordo rites followed by the current U.S. Catholic Church allow for some leeway in these matters - but the ultimate discretion is left up to the individual priest.

"Maybe you and her can consider a full 'Orthodox Marriage Rite' now?"

Already had one, thanks. As I wrote earlier, we did the Orthodox marriage after the Catholic one - about a month after, to be precise.
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Amdetsion
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« Reply #49 on: September 19, 2008, 11:23:35 AM »

The Holy Communion you omitted is the only means by which the marriage can be consumated in Christs precious Body and precious Blood.
Really?  I had always thought that a marriage is consummated through sexual relations.  According to your logic, how could marriage even exist before Christ gave us the Eucharist?  What was that, then, that Jesus attended at Cana?

This is an easy answer that you should know!

With the point of you question we could also ask: How did we worship God at all before Christ?

Prior to Christ and the establishment of His Holy Church on earth marriage and all types of orders of worship existed along with all of the pagan and heathen ritualism all of which were tossd out by our Lord Jesus Christ for His true beleivers.

The wedding at Cana was not A 'Christian' wedding. But you should know that!

One of the major themes of that reading is the fact that the Lord had not established His Church and ministry as he said to The Holy Virgin Mary: "It is not my time" when asked to react to the wine being finished. Albeit He did perform a miracle of changing the water into wine. This shows the power of the intercession of the Holy Virgin Mother of God.

Today certain things still cling to us. Especially those things that make 'absolute' sense to us like what you hold as 'consumating' a marriage is still a physical act to be done by men and NOT by God. With this method man still holds in his weak and corrupted hands some 'real' part of the Holy sacrament; in fact 'validating' the Holy Rite which is purely Holy and in Gods providence alone. WE actually have no part all.

The Marriage Rite is NOW within the Body of Christ.....all of it. We do not make the Rite firm and binding by our own sinful flesh and lusts. It is NOW the Flesh of the Lord Jesus Christ that is mingled with the married couple at the end of the wedding effectively "comsumating' the marriage in the Body of Christ. This means that NO man has a hand in the Marriage Rite or its validity. Consumation is by the Lord Jesus Christ Holy Body. Thus the Rite is pure and Holy. The new couple are ONE FLESH.....in Christ.

This is one of the major reasons why the Marriage Rite is referred to by the Holy Church as a 'Mystery'.

Christ leaves nothing unfinished.

He does not need us to help with the Sacraments by doing some physical action that any devil can do.

Our consumation is Holy, Pure and undefiled. Only Orthodox Christians enjoy such a beautiful mystery and experience. Man and woman may proceed as is natural and normal to Holy Matrimony and enjoy a life of bliss sharing in all things being one including the blessing of children and whatever else God allows them.

The key point is the Marriage Rite 'in-mass' is Christ's property. It is a Mystery.

Only God knows.

So it is very far from Mystery if we are allowed to 'make the rite work the way we want it to'.

Yes this is done a lot today. The Churches are allowing some of this liberalism with the Holy Rites. This has been so prevelant for so long that many people beleive that this is the norm and what I am saying is not.

That is what is alarming to me.

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« Reply #50 on: December 14, 2008, 12:55:52 PM »

Becoming a monk is out of the question for me now.  I don't see myself as a monk.  So I will have to get married.  In my previous religion, I was allowed to marry outside my religion, but I always said I would prefer to marry somebody within my religion, which I why I am single.  So 5 years and not married.  Now I am about embark upon the Orthodox path. And I ask myself, if i am forced to marry an Orthodox, I don't think I will ever get married.  So I am trying to figure out my options.

Lord Have Mercy

Peace be with you, in the Coptic Orthodox Church one must marry an Orthodox Christian.
To marry someone who is not Orthodox would require being unequally yoked and seen on par with marrying a Muslim (which is viewed very seriously in Egypt!).

Thankfully the Church is willing to help people in this regard. Traditionally arranged marriages have ensured that couples are very happy together. Now please don't be frightened by that term. Before marrying both of your priests have to agree that you are suited to one another and if your parents are in the Church then they must all agree as well. Then of course the two of you have to agree that you are suited.
If you don't already know each other, there are plenty of ways of getting to know one another without dating as this is not a practice which is encouraged and even some Protestants recognise that dating is a way of practising how to get divorced. Many Churches have community events where you can sit and talk together in a relaxed community atmosphere and find out about one another's interests without the pressures connected with dating.

If you would like to know more about this please ask a priest, someone who is married or somebody interested in marriage.

Thank you and pray for me please.
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« Reply #51 on: December 14, 2008, 04:26:38 PM »

Quote
in the Coptic Orthodox Church one must marry an Orthodox Christian

What happens if a Coptic Orthodox Christians marries a person who is not an Orthodox Christian?
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ialmisry
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« Reply #52 on: December 14, 2008, 05:00:08 PM »

Quote
in the Coptic Orthodox Church one must marry an Orthodox Christian

What happens if a Coptic Orthodox Christians marries a person who is not an Orthodox Christian?



Excommunication.
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« Reply #53 on: December 14, 2008, 06:26:11 PM »

Didymus, thanks for your great post. If only all Orthodox Christians did as your church does.
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« Reply #54 on: December 14, 2008, 09:16:53 PM »

Becoming a monk is out of the question for me now.  I don't see myself as a monk.  So I will have to get married.  In my previous religion, I was allowed to marry outside my religion, but I always said I would prefer to marry somebody within my religion, which I why I am single.  So 5 years and not married.  Now I am about embark upon the Orthodox path. And I ask myself, if i am forced to marry an Orthodox, I don't think I will ever get married.  So I am trying to figure out my options.

Lord Have Mercy
There are plenty of beautiful and wonderful Orthodox women out there. Just take a trip to Russia, Greece, or Eastern Europe.  So I am not buying the argument that it is not possible to find a wonderful and decent Orthodox woman for marriage. Having said that, I would add that there have been successful mixed marriages between Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox. Different arrangements have been made depending on the circumstances and wishes of the parties involved. I know of one case, where the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox were OK with going to an Eastern Catholic Church. However, I realise that this is problematical from the Eastern Orthodox perspective. 
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