OrthodoxChristianity.net
September 20, 2014, 06:25:57 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: The Passion Movie O'Reilly Factor TONITE  (Read 2908 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Jakub
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,747



« on: August 11, 2003, 05:21:15 PM »

Bill O'Reilly and guests will discuss Mel Gibson & The Passion tonite on FOX NEWS CHANNEL.

Be there.


james
Logged

An old timer is a man who's had a lot of interesting experiences -- some of them true.

Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Brigid of Kildare
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 280



« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2003, 06:28:41 PM »

James,

Would you post up a summary for those who can't be? I've been reading about the anti-semitism angle in the press here and would be interested to hear what this programme says.

Brigid
Logged

Bríd Naomhtha, Mhuire na nGaeil, Guí Orainn
Jakub
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,747



« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2003, 07:55:15 PM »

I will attempt to do it Brigid, just try to keep cool. I heard today that its 122' degrees in Iraq, those guys also carry 40lbs of gear.

james
Logged

An old timer is a man who's had a lot of interesting experiences -- some of them true.

Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Jakub
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,747



« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2003, 09:14:30 PM »

Summary of a 8 minute waste of time to hear Rabbi Marc Gellman say it will inflame people against Jews due to visual effects and their response to Pilate, and why rehash it again. Msgr Tom Hartman states Gibson is a "believer" and it will expose more to what Christ did and that the movie is a form of art.

I missed 8 minutes of a preseason football game for THIS.

james
Logged

An old timer is a man who's had a lot of interesting experiences -- some of them true.

Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 17,135


The Pope Emeritus reading OCNet


WWW
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2003, 09:37:27 PM »

Dear James,

I too watched it and thought it was trash.  I won't hold this against you, though.  Tongue  Wink
Logged

Apolytikion, Tone 1, by Antonis

An eloquent crafter of divine posts
And an inheritor of the line of the Baptist
A righteous son of India
And a new apostle to the internet
O Holy Mor Ephrem,
Intercede for us, that our forum may be saved.


"Mor is a jerk." - kelly
Mudriy
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 48


Token Ukrainian Nationalist


WWW
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2003, 09:41:52 PM »

Bill O'Reily is a jerk IMHO.

surferuke
Logged

"Tranquil Light of the Holy Glory, of the Immortal, Heavenly Holy, Blessed Father.... As we come upn the Sunset, as we see the Evening Light, we sing to God: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. At all times you are worthy...."
Jakub
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,747



« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2003, 10:44:46 PM »

Ah, give me a break Mor, its hard when you're trying to ease out of a 40 year association with the Roman Church.

james
Logged

An old timer is a man who's had a lot of interesting experiences -- some of them true.

Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.
prodromos
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 1,463

Sydney, Australia


« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2003, 02:18:20 AM »

I would personally like to hear how Mel determined that all the communication done during that period was in either Aramaic or Latin when Greek was the common language at the time. Perhaps he is the "Latin Vulgate" version of those people who seem to believe that Jesus spoke in the "King's English".

This, to me, is a huge error. Especially when he claims he is trying to be as accurate as possible. Of course this will be moot when it plays in Germany as it will be dubbed in German just like every other movie that plays there Grin

John.
Logged
Brigid of Kildare
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 280



« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2003, 07:53:11 AM »

I will attempt to do it Brigid, just try to keep cool. I heard today that its 122' degrees in Iraq, those guys also carry 40lbs of gear.

james

James,

It is an essential feature of the Irish to believe that we suffer more than any other people, a local journalist uses the shorthand MOPE - most oppressed people ever.  Wink  A few sunny days have reduced us to a state of chassis.

Sorry this item didn't live up to its promise, I do intend seeing the film if I get the chance.

Brigid

Logged

Bríd Naomhtha, Mhuire na nGaeil, Guí Orainn
Hypo-Ortho
Guest
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2003, 10:59:08 AM »

If and when the film appears in my area, I too plan on seeing it, Brigid.  I think I'm old enough to make my own mind up on whether it's deliberately anti-Semitic or whether it's simply being faithful to the Gospels in all their political incorrectness.  I don't need movie reviewers, Catholic, Jewish or otherwise, to tell me how to think about a particular film, and I generally tend not to agree with film reviewers with their own axes to grind anyway.

Btw, prodomos, I agree with you about the Greek instead of the Latin, but Mel is a LatinTrad after all, so this anachronism has to be expected.  I hope the film has been accurately translated into English and dubbed for the American viewer though--I'm not up on my Latin anymore, I don't know Greek or Hebrew, and I never did do well in my Aramaic studies!  Now Polish, well, that's another story!    Wink   Grin

Hypo-Ortho
Logged
Jakub
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,747



« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2003, 12:00:16 PM »

According to my Italian side of the family its a "union" thing, the Romans are Italian therefore they will use Latin, gee lucky we don't hear the Soprano version.

james aka jacobi
Logged

An old timer is a man who's had a lot of interesting experiences -- some of them true.

Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 17,135


The Pope Emeritus reading OCNet


WWW
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2003, 12:37:34 PM »

I'd rather see subtitles than hear the movie dubbed over in English.  Even if the language I am hearing instead of English happens to be Latin.  Tongue
Logged

Apolytikion, Tone 1, by Antonis

An eloquent crafter of divine posts
And an inheritor of the line of the Baptist
A righteous son of India
And a new apostle to the internet
O Holy Mor Ephrem,
Intercede for us, that our forum may be saved.


"Mor is a jerk." - kelly
Chuck S.
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 71


Place Personal Text Here


« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2003, 07:14:00 PM »

I would personally like to hear how Mel determined that all the communication done during that period was in either Aramaic or Latin when Greek was the common language at the time. Perhaps he is the "Latin Vulgate" version of those people who seem to believe that Jesus spoke in the "King's English".



LOL!!! I wondered that too. And I actually dont think you're too far off. My mom was raised Catholic and I think this was always her assumption as well. So I think it is a common belief among Catholics...at least people old enough to remember pre-Vatican II.

When I first heard about The Passion I was very disappointed that Mel wasn't using NT Greek at all in this movie. It seems very historically incorrect. (I mean even most protestants admit Greek was the common language of the time)

My assumption though is that Jesus won't be speaking Latin, but Aramaic. I assume only some of the Roman soldiers will speak Latin while the majority of the film will be in Aramaic.

If my assumption is true, this isn't too off the mark, but considering even the Bible shows Jesus spoke Greek, (by quoting from the Greek Old Testament) I still think Greek should have been used along with Aramaic.

However if I'm wrong, and Jesus is speaking Latin then I'm gonna cringe.

I still think the movie will be good though even with the the deletion of Greek in the film.

In Christ, Chuck




Logged

In Christ, Thomas
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 17,135


The Pope Emeritus reading OCNet


WWW
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2003, 12:04:05 PM »

but considering even the Bible shows Jesus spoke Greek, (by quoting from the Greek Old Testament) I still think Greek should have been used along with Aramaic.  

But did Jesus have to speak Greek in order to quote from the LXX?  I thought I read somewhere that the LXX was translated from Greek into Hebrew at one point.  Is this not true?  If it is, isn't it conceivable that He quoted from the Hebrew rather than the Greek?
Logged

Apolytikion, Tone 1, by Antonis

An eloquent crafter of divine posts
And an inheritor of the line of the Baptist
A righteous son of India
And a new apostle to the internet
O Holy Mor Ephrem,
Intercede for us, that our forum may be saved.


"Mor is a jerk." - kelly
Chuck S.
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 71


Place Personal Text Here


« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2003, 04:31:14 PM »

but considering even the Bible shows Jesus spoke Greek, (by quoting from the Greek Old Testament) I still think Greek should have been used along with Aramaic.  

But did Jesus have to speak Greek in order to quote from the LXX?  I thought I read somewhere that the LXX was translated from Greek into Hebrew at one point.  Is this not true?  If it is, isn't it conceivable that He quoted from the Hebrew rather than the Greek?  


I've never heard that! Too me, that doesn't make much sense. Why would the Jews translate the OT (from the Hebrew) to the LXX, only to translate it back to the Hebrew again? Or did you mean that the LXX was translated into Aramaic?
<p>
My priest said the reason the OT was translated into Greek to begin with was because most Jews were losing the Hebrew language and really no longer understood it as Greek was becoming the common language of the time. Certainly they wouldn't translate the Hebrew into Greek, then back to Hebrew if no one undersood Hebrew anymore. He's an historian so I trust what he said on this issue.

<p>
I'm pretty sure, by the time of Jesus, Hebrew was becoming simply a 'Liturgical language' and wasn't spoken on a day to day basis. Though like NT Greek, or Church Slavonic is today, I'm sure some people did understand it in that context, but never actually spoke it. (or rarely did)
<p>
I think somewhere in Acts, Paul asks if some Jews could even speak Hebrew implying that many did not speak it in the 1st century. (though since Paul was a scholar who would have)
<p>
We know Greek was the common language of the Empire and Aramaic was the local language of Palestine. I guess the LXX may have been in Aramaic...and certainly perhaps this is what Jesus quoted...but I think its very likely that He spoke Greek as well as Aramaic.
<p>
I once read an interesting article on this subject...that was very convincing (from historical evidence, inscriptions and burial tombs etc) that Jesus (being a 1st century jew) spoke both Greek and Aramaic.  
<p>
But I guess this isn't that important...(well the catholics would say it is, since they say Jesus spoke in Aramaic and not Greek, thus the He really did mean Peter was the rock, and there was no play on words as there is in the Greek)
<p>
But this is an entirely different topic...lol!
<p>
Of course I'm not an historian so what the heck do I know? Not much!
<p>


<p>


<p>

<p>




Logged

In Christ, Thomas
Hypo-Ortho
Guest
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2003, 06:38:50 PM »

What's with all the <p>'s, Chuck?   Huh

Hypo-Ortho
Logged
Keble
All-Knowing Grand Wizard of Debunking
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,411



« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2003, 08:26:13 AM »


I've never heard that! Too me, that doesn't make much sense. Why would the Jews translate the OT (from the Hebrew) to the LXX, only to translate it back to the Hebrew again? Or did you mean that the LXX was translated into Aramaic?

There are a variety of various early versions in various languages. It is hardly unreasonable that Jesus used to Aramaic of the Targums and that, when this was related in Greek, the passage from the LXX was used rather than applying a translation per se. (In any case the most argued about passage isn't spoken by Jesus anyay.)
Logged
Doubting Thomas
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 874

Anglican (but not Episcopagan)


« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2003, 08:54:18 AM »

A slight tangent...

If Greek was the common language of the empire, and Aramaic was spoken locally,  what was the point of "speaking in tongues" on Pentecost?  Could not all the Jews from those different lands understand either Greek or Aramaic?   I actually read an article once (non-Orthodox) that stated these were the ONLY two languages extant (IIRC) at the time in that region of the world, thereby downplaying the miraculous nature of the "tongues"?  Has anyone heard something similar to this?
Logged

"My Lord and My God!"--Doubting Thomas, AD 33
prodromos
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 1,463

Sydney, Australia


« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2003, 05:28:54 AM »

Acts 2:6-13
When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard them speaking in his own language. Utterly amazed, they asked: "Are not all these men who are speaking Galileans? Then how is it that each of us hears them in his own native language? Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs--we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!" Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, "What does this mean?" Some, however, made fun of them and said, "They have had too much wine."

I don't think the languages being describe here are greek and aramaic, especially when the locals (who would understand both greek and aramaic) do not understand what they are saying and consider them as being drunk.

unworthy John.
Logged
t0m_dR
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 174


« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2003, 09:10:02 AM »

Quote
According to my Italian side of the family its a "union" thing, the Romans are Italian therefore they will use Latin, gee lucky we don't hear the Soprano version.

james aka jacobi

WHAT!?!??!?!?!
 Huh

http://www.romanity.org/htm/rom.16.en.romanity_romania_roumeli.01.htm#s1

 Grin
Logged

Tags: The Passion 
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.095 seconds with 47 queries.