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Cassiel
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« on: August 08, 2008, 03:50:51 PM »

Months ago, my spiritual father suggested I attend the general pannikhida for the month in which my mother died.  I'm brand new Orthodox, baptized at Pascha, so my knowledge is limited.  I've attended one pannikhida, and it was beautiful, but the August one is tomorrow night and I feel like I'd like to know more about what's going on.  Would you share your thoughts, impressions, knowledge, experiences?

(modified for spelling issues)
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« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2008, 05:03:17 PM »

I love the service.  We have one probably every other week or so at my parish for specific people (I'm not sure if we've ever had a general one) directly after liturgy and just about everyone stays put for it.  I particularly like the prostopinije tones used in the service.  I think it's a great catechesis tool, if you will, particularly if the parish has lots of children, as mine does (surprising considering its in the Passaic eparchy! Wink ).  Younger folks get in the habit of praying for the dead, especially for non-relatives.  It also serves as a reminder for us to pray for our departed loved ones outside of church.
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« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2008, 06:17:25 PM »

The one I attended was really beautiful.  Something like 70% of our church consists of converts, so almost all have many, many relatives outside the church who have departed.  Good for us to be reminded, then, too.
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« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2008, 07:26:24 PM »

This is one of my most favourite, movingly beautiful services. However, I always have mixed feelings about it, knowing that since most of my friends and family aren't Orthodox, it will never be served for them. This always hurts.
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« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2008, 09:16:07 AM »

If you have family who have reposed but were not Orthodox may I suggest you read the Akathist for those who have Reposed.  His Grace Bishop Basil of Witchita and Mid-America  (AOA) has stated that this is the appropriate service to be read for those relatives of ours who have never heard of an Orthodox Christian or died before becoming a catechumen. It is available on line at:
http://www.orthodox.net/akathists/akathist-for-those-who-have-fallen-asleep.pdf

We do it annually for my father who died before I became Orthodox, my grandparents, and great grandparents. We do it as a family, it is not done at the Church.


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« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2008, 10:14:11 AM »

I'm familiar with Carpathian-Western Ukraine panachidas.  They're sang in several jurisdictions the same way.
They are very beautiful. 

Our parish uses the same as below but a different translation.  But this is the one I have on hand at the house.   I can type the whole Panachida later if anyone wishes me to do so.

This prayer is from the 4th century ad, the priestly prayer at the end of the panachida. 

"O God of spirits and of all flesh, Who has conquered death and destroyed Satan and Who has grated life to Your
World:  O Lord, rest the soul(s) of You departed servants(s) (name) in a serene, luxirant and peaceful place where all pain and sorrow and lamentation are absent.  As a gracious God Who love mankind, forgive all transgressions committed by (him, her, them) by word or deed or though, for there is no one living who does not sin;  You alone are without sin, You truth is truth in eternity and You word is truth.

For you are the resurrection, life and repost of You departed servants (s) (name), O Christ out God, and we give glory to You and Your eternal Father and Your most holy, gracious and life-giving Spirit now and ever and forever.

Response:  Amen"

'Come to Me' Christ the Saviour Seminary Press 1986, 1995 pg. 129

Note: before anyone gets in an uproar about "now and ever and forever" it means the same as "now and unto the ages of ages."  The latter is the current ACROD usage.  The former is still used explicitly but all future texts are to have the latter.  It is a quote from published material and in quoting it I can not change the wording.

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« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2008, 02:10:05 PM »

Here is the preamble to the Panachida in the 'Come to Me' prayerbook ACROD 1985,1995,

"Truly truly, I say to you, he who hear MY word and believes Him Who sent ME, has enternal life;  he does not come into judgment but has passed from death to life. (John 5:24).

A Russian writer of the last century, Alexei Khomiakov, in speaking of the meaning of the Church, wrote: 'No one is saved alone.  He who is saved is saved in the Church, as a member of her and in union with her all her other members.  If anyone believes, he is in the communion of faith;  if he loves, he is in the communion of love;  if he prays, he is in the communion of prayer.'

When a member of the Orthodox Church 'falls asleep in the Lord', he or she does not cease to be a member of the communion of faith, love and prayer which is the Church.  The Church always prays for all her members, even those departed, those awaiting the hour when "we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air;  and so we shall always be with the Lord.' (1 Thessalonians 4:17)

The earliest reference to the prayer for the dead is found in the Second Book of Maccabees, 12:39-45.  This shows that the practice was known to the Jews in the centuries just before the time of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The Church has always prayed for the dead at the celebration of the Divine Liturgy.  In addition, there is a service of prayer for the dead known as 'The Panachida.'  The word 'Pnanchida' comes from the Greek word meaning 'all night'. [sic.]  In ancient times it was the custom to spend the night before a funeral in an all-night vigil before the celebration of the Divine Liturgy and the burial service.  The current 'Panachida' is taken from that vigil.

The prayer of the priest, 'O God of spirits and of all flesh' dates back to the fourth century and has been in widespread use in the Church since that time.  the Panachida may be celebrated after the Divine Liturgy or by itself."  pg 125 ibid.
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« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2008, 08:19:14 PM »

This is one of my most favourite, movingly beautiful services. However, I always have mixed feelings about it, knowing that since most of my friends and family aren't Orthodox, it will never be served for them. This always hurts.




I allway's thought that who ever has a memorial service after Holy liturgy ,,you can ask the person or persons that are having it,if you can include your loved ones names,they wouldn't mind im sure about it...iv included other peoples names when they asked me when i had it done for my loved ones.......Memory Eternal....SmileyCentral.com" border="0
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« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2008, 06:50:39 PM »

If you have family who have reposed but were not Orthodox may I suggest you read the Akathist for those who have Reposed.  His Grace Bishop Basil of Witchita and Mid-America  (AOA) has stated that this is the appropriate service to be read for those relatives of ours who have never heard of an Orthodox Christian or died before becoming a catechumen. It is available on line at:
http://www.orthodox.net/akathists/akathist-for-those-who-have-fallen-asleep.pdf

We do it annually for my father who died before I became Orthodox, my grandparents, and great grandparents. We do it as a family, it is not done at the Church.


Thomas

Thanks so much for this suggestion, Thomas! Stashko, do you mean to say it's okay to add the names of non-orthodox loved ones? This is what I was referring to. I've already asked at church if I may include the names of non-Orthodox friends on the prayer lists at Molebens and Akathists, and was told it is not permitted, so I can't see it being allowed for a Pannikhida.
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« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2008, 08:11:38 PM »

Well, Rosehip, that what our priest (OCA) told me too. Which is to say, that if you want to have a person who is not Orthodox prayed for at a Panikhida that we must add them on a Panikhida being served for an Orthodox person.  Don't know how this would play out in ROCOR though.  I certainly understand your feeling about this, since none of my family, excepting my wife and kids, are Orthodox.
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« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2008, 12:28:09 AM »

Thanks so much for this suggestion, Thomas! Stashko, do you mean to say it's okay to add the names of non-orthodox loved ones? This is what I was referring to. I've already asked at church if I may include the names of non-Orthodox friends on the prayer lists at Molebens and Akathists, and was told it is not permitted, so I can't see it being allowed for a Pannikhida.


Just present the list they never asked me if they were or not.having a memorial is a little bit different than having a orthodox funeral for a non orthodox........iv also wittnessed at the serbian church a memorial that didn't include the koljivo wheat dish only a round bread the priest blessed with wine a russian lady had for her serbian late husband....at the end of the service she broke and passd it around for all to partake..SmileyCentral.com" border="0

My God Daughter had  her Catholic mother mentioned at the time of her orthodox father's memorial service...priest never said it wasn't allowed..
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« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2008, 01:12:21 AM »

^ GOA doesn't allow memorial services for non-Orthodox.  I don't know what the other Orthodox do in that regard.
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« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2008, 11:11:25 AM »

^ GOA doesn't allow memorial services for non-Orthodox.  I don't know what the other Orthodox do in that regard.
We will not have a funeral for them, but we will sing Panekhida for anyone, Orthodox or not. It's a beautiful service, essentially a prayer for the deceased to find rest in God. We consider it an extension of our prayers for the world.
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« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2008, 12:32:42 PM »

Yeah, my mom was Catholic (though I think if she'd have lived long enough to see me baptized into the Orthodox church, she'd have been half a step behind me!). Our priest had no problem including her in the list of names for our monthly general panachida, and I noticed many names of people who I know were non-Orthodox.  Our parish is nearly 70% converts, so most of us have a lot of family who are not Orthodox.
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« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2008, 05:33:57 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYGNTH49NG8

Watch this abbreviated video of a Panachida.  This is a Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church.  However around here all the churches whether Greek Catholic and Orthodox sing Panachidas this same way.  Except Tone 4 for the tropar may sound different from parish to parish a tad.  But you'll see the Vichnaya Pamyat.
The ACROD and the Greek Catholics put this into the Eternal Memory:
Eternal Memory, eternal memory, blessed repose, eternal memory. (or memory eternal depending on parish custom).
That's "Vicnaja pamjat', vicnaja pamjat', blazennyj pokoj vičnaja jemu (jej, jim) pamjat"

The Ukrainian Orthodox here just sing Vicnaja pamyat X3 with the same tone as in the video.  the added phrase.
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« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2008, 07:42:03 PM »

It's similar and yet different from ours though they used old Slavonic like we do..they didn't have the koljivo wheat dish or ever bread ,though i did see the naphora blessed bread there to be given out at the end of the liturgy ....SmileyCentral.com" border="0whats with the odd looking deacon stole orioron.......
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« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2008, 08:06:53 PM »

It's similar and yet different from ours though they used old Slavonic like we do..they didn't have the koljivo wheat dish or ever bread ,though i did see the naphora blessed bread there to be given out at the end of the liturgy ....SmileyCentral.com" border="0whats with the odd looking deacon stole orioron.......

This is a Ukrainian Catholic Church.  I've never seen koliva in any Ukrainian Orthodox, OCA, ACROD, Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic or Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church in my area.  Regardless the Greek Catholics and Orthodox that hail from the same areas of the world (Trans-Carpathia) have very similar liturgical texts and little small traditions.

As to the deacon's stole in this video, it appears he is a protodeacon.
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« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2008, 08:09:57 PM »

It's similar and yet different from ours though they used old Slavonic like we do..

I think it is fitting to say that when you say "like we do" Stashko you mean Serbian small tradition practice? 
Certainly not all Orthodox churches use koliva or use the same traditions and customs as the Serbians. 
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« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2008, 12:40:05 AM »

I think it is fitting to say that when you say "like we do" Stashko you mean Serbian small tradition practice? 
Certainly not all Orthodox churches use koliva or use the same traditions and customs as the Serbians. 



But we got it from the greeks they have koljivo wheat dish at there memorials , i would asume all orthodox would have it maybe not the slivovica plum bandy after the memorial like we have..Huh....SmileyCentral.com" border="0we have arch deacons Proto Djakons they never ware that type of stole ....
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« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2008, 02:43:01 AM »



But we got it from the greeks they have koljivo wheat dish at there memorials , i would asume all orthodox would have it maybe not the slivovica plum bandy after the memorial like we have..Huh....SmileyCentral.com" border="0we have arch deacons Proto Djakons they never ware that type of stole ....

Well I'm here to tell you and share with you that not all Orthodox Christians use koliva.  Trans-Carpathian Orthodox small traditions are different than any other regional Orthodox small traditions.  In trans-carpathia and the diaspora you will encounter things you may not encounter in your Serbian Parish, or a Greek Parish or a Romanian or even Russian parish.

And we sing Panachida weekly in my parish.  I'm rather familiar with them.
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« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2008, 02:44:56 AM »

As to the stole, I will get back to you on that one.  It could be just the one the deacon had with him that day?  I'll ask someone in the UGGC about this.
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« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2008, 03:31:59 AM »

Well I'm here to tell you and share with you that not all Orthodox Christians use koliva.  Trans-Carpathian Orthodox small traditions are different than any other regional Orthodox small traditions.  In trans-carpathia and the diaspora you will encounter things you may not encounter in your Serbian Parish, or a Greek Parish or a Romanian or even Russian parish.

And we sing Panachida weekly in my parish.  I'm rather familiar with them.


you seem to be familar with word koljivo maybe the russian have it at there memorials ...humm...SmileyCentral.com" border="0i believe i read a while back that the russian did away with the alcohol at there memorial services due to russian alcoholism....
at a serbian memorial we partake of the acohol and say....Bog Da Mu Dusu Oprosti i Laka Mu ili noj Zemlja Bila...Amin

English, May God Forgive His/her Sin's and may the earth be light........amen
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« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2008, 08:53:25 AM »

In the United States, we frequently run into the variety of traditions or pious customs of the various homelands that were brought to the United States.  Some of the traditions that I have run into visting Churches here  in realtionships to memorial services are these:
1. Elaborate trays of powdered sugared covered Koliva with silved dagree crosses (wheat dried fruit, walnuts ground)in Greek Churches
2. Bowls of Koliva made with honey,walnuts, and dried fruit, served later after church with a brandi or plum wine in Serbian Churches
3. Elaborate breads with designs on them in some Russian, Ukranian, Romanian, and Serbian Churches.
4. Flat bread sented with mahleb in some Antiochian Churches.
5. Bowls of Koliva with dired fruit, almonds, covered with powdered sugar, and crosses made with either blanched almonds or jordan almonds in Antiochian Churches.
6. Bowls of Koliva made with honey,walnuts, and dried fruit, served later after church with icy Vodka in some OCA and Russian Churches.

and I have been to some memorial serviceswhere only prayers of the memorial service or Panikida were said. All this said there is great variety and not a single  tradition that is found everywhere in the US. In Greek Churches often the home of origin (Create,  Turkey, Athens, or some village in the mountains)  of the founders of the  parish influences  how they do the memorial service thus making it very, very small "t"raditon local to that parish alone.

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« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2008, 01:10:48 AM »

No one has appointed me the Orthodox praxis sheriff, but for what it is worth, I'm fairly certain it is contrary to the Tradition and praxis of the Church to commemorate non-orthodox in the liturgy.

In my first Church (in Japan) this was made very clear to me by my priest who showed me the little prophora loaves with commemoration slips with instruction to not mix Orthodox with non Orthodox names on the same list, and to be sure the list is clearly labeled if those on it are not Orthodox.

I know some priests out of a kindly disposition will remember non Orthodox in the altar but from what I can tell it is not appropriate. Elder Sophrony I believe also criticized this modern "habit" saying it is not that we prohibit this out of any sense of superiority or elitism, but rather that we are dealing the with central mysteries of the Church and exposing those not initiated to them to their full force and glory...a glory they may well not be spiritually prepared to experience and so rather than do them good as we intend we rather cause them pain and anguish.

It is right to remember the non orthodox reposed in our prayers in private, but their commemoration does not belong  in the Liturgy, to the corporate worship of the Church...to be in communion has implication that is real and potent. Those remembered have particles in their name added to the Chalice.  We would not permit a not Orthodox Christian to have that living coal touch his lips in order to protect him, what folly is it then to include our unprepared loved ones in what we should not even dare to approach if not in good stead, regularly confessed, etc. in the Church? Should we let our sentiment presume upon Christ's mercy?

But as I said...I'm not the praxis police, and it would be better if a priest weighed in on this question than for me to continue flapping my gums.

BTW in the Church in Japan they use rice for koliva instead of wheat.
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« Reply #24 on: August 19, 2008, 05:31:22 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OydsFRt_I2s&feature=user

Eternal Memory, ACROD, from their pilgrimage just the other day.  Youtube, the window into just about everything!
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« Reply #25 on: August 19, 2008, 07:18:55 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OydsFRt_I2s&feature=user

Eternal Memory, ACROD, from their pilgrimage just the other day.  Youtube, the window into just about everything!


Now that's similar to us the wine used to bless the koljivo .......do they have alcohol also at the end that everyboby partakes with the koljivo.....SmileyCentral.com" border="0
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« Reply #26 on: August 19, 2008, 11:37:58 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OydsFRt_I2s&feature=user

Eternal Memory, ACROD, from their pilgrimage just the other day.  Youtube, the window into just about everything!

Eternal Memory to ACROD indeed.


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