OrthodoxChristianity.net
December 21, 2014, 02:28:24 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: EOTC: question about groups abroad separated from the Mother Church  (Read 4039 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Bartosz
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Latin Rite
Posts: 7


« on: July 18, 2008, 05:25:58 AM »

Hello to everyone,

I know there are some Ethiopian Orthodox parishies outside of Ethiopia, which are not in communion with the Mother Church. Can you, please, give me some details on that issue? Is there one separated group or are there some of them? Do they have bishops, synod, patriarch?

Or maybe there are only single parishes, not organised as a group and not connected one with another?

And what were the reasons for that schism? I've heard it had something to do with the controversial (politically influenced) appointing of Paulos, the present patriarch of Addis Ababa, which was done when Abuna Mekorios, the legal patriarch, was still alive - he was forced to exile (correct if I'm wrong or confusing anything).
Logged
HaileAmanuel
HaileAmanuel [Amanuel is my Power]
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Coptic/Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahido Christian
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Tewahido/Non-Chalcedonian
Posts: 87


He that is greatest among you will be your servant


« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2008, 09:56:28 PM »

Dear Bartosz,

Welcome.  There is one true, Holy Synod of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahido Church that rests in Addis Abeba, Ethiopia and H.H. Abune Pawlos presides as the one, legal patriarch. 

Since the time of the Derg's Regime, there has been a lot of chicaneries on behalf of the socialists' regime, in a plot to destroy the Orthodox Tewahido Church(es).  These anti-Christs have also furthered the conflict with Eritrea and Ethiopia.

Anyway, after the death of HH Abune Tekle Hayimanot, who did not succumb to the antics of the Derg; the Derg installed a puppet patriarch (Abune Merkurios), who worked along with the regime.  When the Derg fell to a 'rebel' force, lead by the TPLF and other forces.  Once the communists were ousted, the Synod of the EOTC decided to summon all of the EOTC's archbishops and bishops (at home and abroad) to Ethiopia in order to decide the fate of Abune Merkurios--whether he should remain patriarch or be stripped of his title, because of the heinous acts that he committed with the Derg.

A letter was presented to the Synod by Abune Merkurios saying that he was ill and that he participated in crimes against his fellow Ethiopians, and that he was not worthy to retain the position of patriarch.  He then fled to Kenya and eventually ended-up in the US.  Before and after the unanimous election of Abune Pawlos, the Holy Synod sought to reconcile Abune Merkurios with the Church, but under-the-influence of renegade bishops, Abune Merkurios declined to return to the jurisdiction of the Mother Church in Ethiopia. 

Within the last year, Abune Merkurios and his 'synod in exile' have consecrated more than 15 bishops and continue to establish churches in the US, Canada and Europe, under this so-called synod-in-exile.  They've issued letters, denouncing the Abune Pawlos and the Holy Synod in Addis Abeba.  They also curse other Ethiopian factions that remain without bishops. 

The Holy Synod of the EOTC also issued anathemas upon the 'synod in exile' within the last year, because of these consecrations, abandonment of bishoprics and various declarations.

There are (unfortunately) so-called independent Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahido Churches, that are patriarch-less and bishop-less.  They function as an Ethiopian Orthodox Community, but seclude themselves in regards to a hierarchy.

I don't believe that any of the factions are dogmatically heretics, but perhaps they are accused of heresy.

I hope that may have helped.

Peace,

HaileAmanuel

Logged

'He who is greatest among you, will be your servant [St. Matthew 23:11].'
stashko
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: ИСТОЧНИ ПРАВОСЛАВНИ СРБИН
Jurisdiction: Non Ecumenist Free Serbian Orthodox Church
Posts: 4,998


Wonderworking Sitka Icon


« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2008, 10:34:55 PM »

There's a ethiopean orthodox church on the south side of chicago in south chicago that use to be a serbian orthodox church sold to the ethiopean orthodox ..how does one find out if it's with the Holy Patriarch of Ethiopia..i passed it several times thing are written on the front in ethiopean plus the word[ urt ]i think that's the word...what does that word mean...??....SmileyCentral.com" border="0
Logged

ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.
Bartosz
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Latin Rite
Posts: 7


« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2008, 06:16:54 AM »

Dear HaileAmanuel, thank you very much for your post! I find it very helpful. Can you, please, answer another two questions:
1. What was the role of late Abuna Yesehaq in this whole affair? One "whose side" was he and what is the current status of the parishes abroad which he set up and was in charge of as their archbishop? Do they have another abuna now?
2. Ethiopian Orthodox Coptic Church of North and South America ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Orthodox_Coptic_Church_of_North_and_South_America ) - what is it? I'm rather confused with the Wikipedia article about it - to many names, dates and places - I can't figure it out...
Logged
HaileAmanuel
HaileAmanuel [Amanuel is my Power]
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Coptic/Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahido Christian
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Tewahido/Non-Chalcedonian
Posts: 87


He that is greatest among you will be your servant


« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2008, 06:42:13 PM »

Dear Stashko,

How are you?  I hope that this reply is directly to you (due to my technological ignorance).  If you'd like to find-out 'if and what' that Church is, you may merely ask to speak with the head priest or a priest (if necessary, ask for a translator) and ask them if they are under the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahido Church Patriarchate of Ethiopia (Addis Abeba, Ethiopia) that is headed by H.H. Abune Pawlos.   You may also ask them if they are Orthodox Tewahido or Ethiopian Catholic...in appearance, the two Churches are almost, exactly the same! 

I hope that this helps...take care. 

Sincerely,

HaileAmanuel
Logged

'He who is greatest among you, will be your servant [St. Matthew 23:11].'
HaileAmanuel
HaileAmanuel [Amanuel is my Power]
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Coptic/Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahido Christian
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Tewahido/Non-Chalcedonian
Posts: 87


He that is greatest among you will be your servant


« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2008, 07:25:52 PM »

Dear Bartosz,

Peace!  No problem...I believe that I provided accurate information. 

First, the Ethiopian Coptic Orthodox Church has NO RELATION WHATSOEVER to the Ethiopian, Eritrean Orthodox Tewahido or the Coptic Orthodox Church.  When we (that means myself and a friend) questioned their leader, the story that he provided was skewed and historically incorrect.  He also added other information that did not apply to the history or mission of the EOTCs or Coptic Orthodox Church.

Your question concerning the Late Archbishop Abune Yeshaq: This subject is very touchy and it may have been discussed on this site previously (I'm new here), so you may want to research the various statements and/or opinions that may have been provided through the blogs or posts on this site.

The conflicts with H.E. Abune Yeshaq and the Holy Synod of Ethiopia began when H.H. Abune Pawlos was officially elected Patriarch of the EOTC.  (1) H.E. Abune Yeshaq MAY or MAY NOT have had personal issues with H.H. Abune Pawlos--they used to live together for quite some years.  (2) The interpretation of the Canon Law in regards to deposing a living patriarch

Ultimately, the decision to remove Abune Merkurios from the patriarchate was a unanimous decision on behalf of those present in the council during the early 1990's (1992/3), so I can't say that the Canon Law resented the 4th Patriarch of Ethiopia's removal. 

For many years, H.E. Abune Yeshaq offered and gave a lot of support to Abune Merkurios and the other bishops (such as: Melketsideq, zena Markos, Elisha?), but even then, these opposers of Abune Pawlos began to fight amongst one another. 

As for the independent churches that were under H.E. Abune Yeshaq, they are now bishopless (according to my knowledge).  Even within their parishes, there were splits.  I also understand that the Holy Trinity Church on Maxfield Avenue, Kingston, JA is being contested for ownership...

I don't want to get into 'gossip', so I think that it's better to stop here and I think this is the current status, but one may hear otherwise.

Peace to you...

HaileAmanuel

Logged

'He who is greatest among you, will be your servant [St. Matthew 23:11].'
Bartosz
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Latin Rite
Posts: 7


« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2008, 12:57:52 PM »

So, being in the US, one can come across such churches, which derive from the Tewahedo tradiotion:
1. Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church under the Patriarchate of Ethiopia, that is headed by Abuna Pawlos
2. Eritrean Orthodox Tewahedo Church under the Patriarchate of Eritrea, that is headed by Abuna Dioskoros (who came to power after Abuna Antonios was deposed forcefully by Eritrean government)
3. Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church under the "exiled" Patriarchate of Ethiopia, that is headed by Abuna Merkurios (residing in Seattle)
4. Ethiopian Orthodox Coptic Church of North and South America under Abuna Apollo (residing in NYC) as Metropolitan Primate, recogizing also Abuna Merkorios as the Patriarch
5. Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church of the Western Hemispere and South Africa, which used to be headed by the late Abuna Yesehaq and now is bishopless
6. Ethiopian/Eritrean Catholic Church (Tewadedo in appearance, Catholic in faith)
7. Ethiopian Orthodox Tehadeso Church (Tewadedo in appearance, Protestant in faith)

Please, correct me if I confused anything and, please, add points to the list if I missed anything.

And few more questions. Had Abuna Yesehaq ever recogised the power of the exiled patriarch Abuna Merkorios and had he ever took part in his 'synod in exile'? Do you know of any plans that Abuna Yesehaq may have had to bring his church back to the Oriental Orthodox Communion and to get new, canonicaly consecrated bishops for his archdiocese (for example through the Indian Malankara Orthodox Church - I've haerd that Abba Yesehaq was in very friendly relationship with the late Dr. Thomas Mar Makarios, Indian Orthodox Metropolitan Archbishop of Canada, UK & Europe)?

Peace and Love!
Logged
Amdetsion
Worship God with all thy strength and all thy might
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christianity
Jurisdiction: Ethiopian Patriarchate; Addis Abebe Ethiopia
Posts: 931


HH Abuna Pawlos - Patriarch of Ethiopia


« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2008, 01:10:14 PM »

Dear Bartosz,

Peace!  No problem...I believe that I provided accurate information. 

First, the Ethiopian Coptic Orthodox Church has NO RELATION WHATSOEVER to the Ethiopian, Eritrean Orthodox Tewahido or the Coptic Orthodox Church.  When we (that means myself and a friend) questioned their leader, the story that he provided was skewed and historically incorrect.  He also added other information that did not apply to the history or mission of the EOTCs or Coptic Orthodox Church.

Your question concerning the Late Archbishop Abune Yeshaq: This subject is very touchy and it may have been discussed on this site previously (I'm new here), so you may want to research the various statements and/or opinions that may have been provided through the blogs or posts on this site.

The conflicts with H.E. Abune Yeshaq and the Holy Synod of Ethiopia began when H.H. Abune Pawlos was officially elected Patriarch of the EOTC.  (1) H.E. Abune Yeshaq MAY or MAY NOT have had personal issues with H.H. Abune Pawlos--they used to live together for quite some years.  (2) The interpretation of the Canon Law in regards to deposing a living patriarch

Ultimately, the decision to remove Abune Merkurios from the patriarchate was a unanimous decision on behalf of those present in the council during the early 1990's (1992/3), so I can't say that the Canon Law resented the 4th Patriarch of Ethiopia's removal. 

For many years, H.E. Abune Yeshaq offered and gave a lot of support to Abune Merkurios and the other bishops (such as: Melketsideq, zena Markos, Elisha?), but even then, these opposers of Abune Pawlos began to fight amongst one another. 

As for the independent churches that were under H.E. Abune Yeshaq, they are now bishopless (according to my knowledge).  Even within their parishes, there were splits.  I also understand that the Holy Trinity Church on Maxfield Avenue, Kingston, JA is being contested for ownership...

I don't want to get into 'gossip', so I think that it's better to stop here and I think this is the current status, but one may hear otherwise.

Peace to you...

HaileAmanuel



Maxfiled Avenue and Holy Trinity is finished. The case was decided a few months ago. Late spring. The property and all its records and deeds are the legal property of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahido Church HH Abuna Pawlos Patriarch and His Grace Abuna Thadius Archbishop.

Thanks to Gods grace.
Logged

"ETHIOPIA shall soon stretch out her hands unto God".....Psalm 68:vs 31

"Are ye not as children of the ETHIOPIANS unto me, O children of Israel"?....Amos 9: vs 7
Amdetsion
Worship God with all thy strength and all thy might
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christianity
Jurisdiction: Ethiopian Patriarchate; Addis Abebe Ethiopia
Posts: 931


HH Abuna Pawlos - Patriarch of Ethiopia


« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2008, 01:18:58 PM »

I am sorry that this issue is being posted on.

It is my deepest prayer that this issue will cease to label and define the 'state' of our beloved church outside Ethiopia. We have much more good to offer the world.

Our Father Abuna Pawlos is working to repair the schisms and problems around the world and has made very good head way in the last 10 years. The Ethiopian and Coptic has even sealed an alliance and re-affirmed our unity; thank God.

Many of the parishes in the USA are now negotiating thier way back into the fold. Many have already accepted.

Let us pray for unity and peace.
Logged

"ETHIOPIA shall soon stretch out her hands unto God".....Psalm 68:vs 31

"Are ye not as children of the ETHIOPIANS unto me, O children of Israel"?....Amos 9: vs 7
HaileAmanuel
HaileAmanuel [Amanuel is my Power]
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Coptic/Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahido Christian
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Tewahido/Non-Chalcedonian
Posts: 87


He that is greatest among you will be your servant


« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2008, 01:59:17 PM »

Dear Bartosz,

I want to make a few points on what you listed.  The only DOGMATIC difference(s) that were on your list, were those of the Ethiopian Catholic, Tehadeso and Ethiopian Coptic churches.  I am not justifying the differences amongst the Ethiopian Tewahido Churches' hierarchies, but this specific situation would not be compared to the 'schisms' in Christendom (concerning dogmatic theology). 

On the other hand, as A/Deacon Amdetsion stated, this is a major issue for EOTC(hristians)--that the people have been divided under various ecclesiastical hierarchs.  I stress here that there is one, Holy Synod of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahido Church-undivided!

The Ethiopian Catholic Church is an entity by itself under the jurisdiction of the Roman Catholic Patriarchate.  The Ethiopian Coptic Church is also a totally different collaboration of believers. 

The Patriarch of the Eritrean Orthodox Tewahido Church is H.H. Abune Antonius, not Dioscorus.  Dioscorus is not recognized by the Coptic, Syrian, Armenian or Ethiopian Patriarchates. 

Concerning HE Abune Yeshaq: I can definitely say for sure that HE Abune Yeshaq did not support a 'synod in exile' and this is why the other bishops (those in support of Abune Merkurios aka Abba zeLibanos).  From what I understand, HE Abune Yeshaq did not leave an orders to those under him, to reconcile with the Holy Synod of Ethiopia.  This source may or may not be reliable...

Peace to you,

HaileAmanuel
Logged

'He who is greatest among you, will be your servant [St. Matthew 23:11].'
Bartosz
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Latin Rite
Posts: 7


« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2008, 03:03:26 PM »

Concerning HE Abune Yeshaq: I can definitely say for sure that HE Abune Yeshaq did not support a 'synod in exile' and this is why the other bishops (those in support of Abune Merkurios aka Abba zeLibanos).

The other bishops what? Smiley
Logged
Amdetsion
Worship God with all thy strength and all thy might
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christianity
Jurisdiction: Ethiopian Patriarchate; Addis Abebe Ethiopia
Posts: 931


HH Abuna Pawlos - Patriarch of Ethiopia


« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2008, 05:54:57 PM »

This source may or may not be reliable...

Peace to you,

HaileAmanuel

Please let us be careful when speaking about the actions of the fathers of the Holy Church particularly in an open forum such as this one. Caution is the order I am proposing.

If we do not have or know the facts lets refrain.

I agree that people deserve answers to important questions.

I beg however that it is understood when I say that this forum is far from appropriate to discuss this highly sensitive and delicate matter.

Maybe a private forum?

Selam
Logged

"ETHIOPIA shall soon stretch out her hands unto God".....Psalm 68:vs 31

"Are ye not as children of the ETHIOPIANS unto me, O children of Israel"?....Amos 9: vs 7
Salpy
Moderator
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Armenian Church
Posts: 12,892


Pray for the Christians of Iraq and Syria.


« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2008, 06:47:01 PM »

Welcome to the forum, Bartosz!

Personally, I do not know very much about these difficult issues.  However, from my own Church's experience, I can tell you that the 20th century era of Communism did a lot of damage to the Orthodox.  This is true of the OO Armenian and Ethiopian Churches, as well as EO Churches, especially the Russian Church.  One thing the Communists did was try to destroy the Churches from within, by sowing division.  The various Orthodox communions are still dealing with the damage from this today.  Things are better now than they were, but there is still a lot of healing to be done.

These are all very sensitive issues, and you need to know that people don't always want to discuss them in detail in a public forum.  Your questions are legitimate ones and it is understandable that you have them.  However, you need to understand that people may not want to give you answers that are as detailed as you wish.  It's like when your family has problems, you may not want to discuss it too much with people outside of your family.  That is the best analogy I can come up with.   Smiley

I think we all need to pray for healing for all the Orthodox that have suffered under atheist governments.  May God grant us all mercy and brotherhood.

Logged

Tags: EOTC Yesehaq Ethiopian Orthodox Church Eritrea schism 
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.083 seconds with 41 queries.