Author Topic: Babylonian Captivity  (Read 3707 times)

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Offline Keble

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Babylonian Captivity
« on: August 06, 2003, 08:09:06 AM »
As most of you have heard, the house of bishops consented to Gene Robinson's consecration yesterday.  I have found little detail on this, except some short bits from David Virtue's site of arguments made by the bishop, most of which are less than edifying. (My own bishop is one of those quoted and I have no idea what he's trying to say.) I do not know who the "twenty conservative bishops" are (other than Duncan, who acted as their spokesman).

As I write this, it is unclear what will happen. Some are predicting that the conservatives will not leave. At the moment the AAC is talking about a meeting in October. Robinson's consecration is scheduled for November 2.

I personally have nothing to say. I am dependent on the bishops to act.

Offline Linus7

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Re:Babylonian Captivity
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2003, 11:01:10 AM »
When the morning dawned, the angels urged Lot to hurry, saying, "Arise, take your wife and your two daughters who are here, lest you be consumed in the punishment of the city."

And while he lingered, the men took hold of his hand, his wife's hand, and the hands of his two daughters, the Lord being merciful to him, and they brought him out and set him outside the city. (Gen. 19:15-16).
The first condition of salvation is to keep the norm of the true faith and in no way to deviate from the established doctrine of the Fathers.
- Pope St. Hormisdas

Offline CDHealy

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Re:Babylonian Captivity
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2003, 11:40:01 AM »
Keble:

This may be what your looking for:

http://listserv.episcopalian.org/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind0307c&L=virtuosity&D=1&H=1&O=D&F=&S=&P=1434

AN OPEN LETTER TO THE CONCERNED PRIMATES OF THE ANGLICAN COMMUNION

Most Reverend Fathers in God:

As Bishops of the Church catholic with jurisdiction (or office) in the
Episcopal Church in the United States of America (ECUSA) we are
speaking to address the crisis of Faith and Order that is increasingly
unfolding among us, among our brothers and sisters in Christ in the
Anglican Church of Canada, and, for now, in limited other places
throughout our worldwide Anglican Communion.

We begin by stating that we utterly repudiate the recent actions of the
Synod and the Bishop of the Diocese of New Westminster in authorizing
liturgies for blessing same-sex partnerships.  At the same time, we
wish to speak in more detail to the unfolding situation in the
Episcopal Church, among whose leaders we have been called and
consecrated.

The election in New Hampshire of a man who openly confesses an active
homosexual relationship to be Bishop Coadjutor, and the inclusion of a
measure affirming the blessing of same-sex unions on the agenda of the
upcoming General Convention, both serve as symbols of a desperately
confused, errant and disintegrating Anglican province.  At stake are
the fundamental doctrines of apostolicity and of marriage.  The
confirmation by national synodical vote of the bishop-elect or the
adoption of any same-sex marriage provisions would be unparalleled
departures from received church order and universal church teaching.
We further regret to have to state that it is our assessment that the
likelihood of the approval of these church-rending innovations has been
dramatically increased by a letter sent by our Presiding Bishop to all
bishops of this province, a letter which can have no other
interpretation than encouragement for confirmation of the New Hampshire
election.

In the face of these looming departures from evangelical truth and
catholic order, and in line with our commitment to oppose all such
innovations in every Godly way, we do hereby affirm the moral and
spiritual authority of you, the "Concerned Primates" of the Anglican
Communion, and do join in commitment with you to address the situation
under your leadership.  We desire to act in concert with you, and are
ready to take counsel from you.  We pledge solidarity with you in
sharing common faith and practice within an Anglicanism that is
submitted to her sovereign Lord, true to his holy Word, and at one with
his catholic Church.

We now join in your declaration of impaired communion with the Bishop
and Diocese of New Westminster.  We also join you in affirming bonds of
fellowship and communion with those in the Diocese of New Westminster
(ACiNW) who have stood firm in resisting that conciliar and episcopal
authority which has exceeded its legitimate boundaries.  We further
state that we stand ready, in concert with you, to commit to common
responses to the deteriorating situation within the Episcopal Church,
and elsewhere.  We take these actions and make these commitments in
order that Anglicans everywhere might ever be numbered among the
mainstream witnesses of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church of
Jesus Christ, who alone is true God and true man, the only Savior of
humankind, whose disciples are ever constrained by the plain sense of
God's Word written.

 15th July, A.D. 2003 St. Swithun's Day

SIGNED:

DANIEL HERZOG
Bishop of Albany

EDWARD SALMON
Bishop of South Carolina

JOHN HOWE
Bishop of Central Florida

BERTRAM HERLONG
Bishop of Tennessee

JAMES STANTON
Dallas

FITZSIMONS ALLISON
Bishop of South Carolina, Retired

MAURICE  (BEN) BENITEZ
Bishop of Texas, Retired

STEPHEN JECKO
Bishop of Florida

JACK IKER
Bishop of Fort Worth

ALEX DICKSON
Bishop of West Tennessee, Retired              

ALDEN HATHAWAY
Bishop of Pittsburgh, Retired

ANDREW FAIRFIELD
Bishop of North Dakota

ROBERT DUNCAN
Bishop of Pittsburgh

HUGO PINA-LOPEZ
Assistant Bishop of Central Florida

KEITH ACKERMAN
Bishop of Quincy

CLARENCE POPE
Bishop of Fort Worth, Retired

HENRY SCRIVEN
Assistant Bishop of Pittsburgh

TERENCE KELSHAW
Bishop of the Rio Grande

GETHIN HUGHES
Bishop of San Diego

WILLIAM SKILTON
Suffragan Bishop of South Carolina

WILLIAM WANTLAND
Bishop of Eau Claire, Retired

JOHN-DAVID SCHOFIELD
Bishop of San Joaquin

PETER BECKWITH
Bishop of Springfield

DONALD PARSONS
Bishop of Quincy, retired
Clifton D. Healy
email: chealy5@yahoo.com
blog: http://benedictseraphim.wordpress.com

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
--Hamlet,

Offline Keble

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Re:Babylonian Captivity
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2003, 11:51:51 AM »
Linus, I am expecting a lot of "bail out now!" messages. For the moment I cannot heed these. In the first place, for those of you who have denied the legitimacy of the Episcopal Church all along, nothing has changed.

Also, I must wait to see what the bishops do. If no substantive action is taken, then I will have to reconsider. But if there is a division, then I must deal with that. I am not going to go hiding in Orthodoxy from this issue.

Offline Keble

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Re:Babylonian Captivity
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2003, 12:56:15 PM »
CD, there's a different set of bishops attached to the Truro statement. I'm guessing that the bishops in question may include all of them-- it's hard to say.

Offline TomS

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Re:Babylonian Captivity
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2003, 01:08:10 PM »
I am not going to go hiding in Orthodoxy from this issue.

I respect you choice Keble, but I don't understand why you always refer to leaving as hiding? The church is abandoning YOU, you are not abandoning the church!


Offline Keble

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Re:Babylonian Captivity
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2003, 01:53:11 PM »
I am not going to go hiding in Orthodoxy from this issue.

I respect you choice Keble, but I don't understand why you always refer to leaving as hiding? The church is abandoning YOU, you are not abandoning the church!

Because the point of such a departure is the belief about some Orthodox body that "It can't happen here." I think you would have to agree that such a consideration shouldn't trump every other consideration, and to allow it to do so would truly be such "hiding". Being chrismated into Orthodoxy while covertly remaining Anglican isn't going to fly for me. "So abandon Anglicanism", I expect you to reply. I cannot-- not in such haste, at any rate. There is always the AMiA, and if the expected schism materializes, I expect I will go with the conservatives. But I've said all along that Robinson is a scandal-- only a scandal.

I don't want to spend a lot of time trying to defend anything about the current situation. But it is also an action which is incomplete. I am not going to act in haste on this.

Offline Keble

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Re:Babylonian Captivity
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2003, 01:55:16 PM »
I'm getting a lot of "wake up and smell the coffee" messages in the other thread. Guys, save the electrons. I'm not under any delusions that the change in the resolutions means much of anything in the long run. But I have to see what the conservatives are going to do, and it's obvious they aren't going to act hastily.

Hypo-Ortho

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Re:Babylonian Captivity
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2003, 03:15:36 PM »
I'm getting a lot of "wake up and smell the coffee" messages in the other thread. Guys, save the electrons. I'm not under any delusions that the change in the resolutions means much of anything in the long run. But I have to see what the conservatives are going to do, and it's obvious they aren't going to act hastily.


Keble, if you're not going to heed the concern we have for you, then there is little more that we can do or say, other than that I am sure that we shall continue to pray for you.  

As for me, I do not plan on reading or responding to any more posts or threads dealing with the subject of the goings-on within the ECUSA--this is (*supposedly*) an Orthodox forum, and these threads, I regret to say, have become very unedifying, tiresome and pointless for me.  :'(

Hypo-Ortho

Offline TomS

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Re:Babylonian Captivity
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2003, 03:18:08 PM »
I second that Hypo-Ortho. The thread has run its course.