OrthodoxChristianity.net
August 20, 2014, 06:52:50 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Why did the Roman Church destory their Holy Altars... Where are the Relics?  (Read 9286 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
ignatius
Baptacathadox
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic > Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA - Diocese of the South
Posts: 1,690


My Son Aidan... :-)


« on: July 11, 2008, 04:27:44 PM »

In the 1970's throughout the Western World we find the Roman Church destroying their Holy Altars... Why? What happened to the Relics within them? Why was this necessary?
Logged

St Basil the Great (330-379 A.D.): “I think then that the one goal of all who are really and truly serving the Lord ought to be to bring back to union the churches who have at different times and in diverse manners divided from one another.”
Entscheidungsproblem
Formerly Friul & Nebelpfade
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Machine God
Posts: 4,495



WWW
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2008, 04:44:26 PM »

In the 1970's throughout the Western World we find the Roman Church destroying their Holy Altars... Why? What happened to the Relics within them? Why was this necessary?

Depends on the parish.  If the high altar remains, but becomes more of a decoration piece, they remain in the high altar.  If the high altar was torn down, or it is in a newer Church that only has a free-standing altar, then the relics are typically in there.  It is a travesty when the original high altars are "modernised" or torn down to make way for the new altars, but thankfully many parishes have retained their original altars and you can even find some parishes now restoring their original altars.
Logged

As a result of a thousand million years of evolution, the universe is becoming conscious of itself, able to understand something of its past history and its possible future.
-- Sir Julian Sorell Huxley FRS
ignatius
Baptacathadox
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic > Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA - Diocese of the South
Posts: 1,690


My Son Aidan... :-)


« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2008, 05:04:24 PM »

Depends on the parish.  If the high altar remains, but becomes more of a decoration piece, they remain in the high altar.  If the high altar was torn down, or it is in a newer Church that only has a free-standing altar, then the relics are typically in there.  It is a travesty when the original high altars are "modernised" or torn down to make way for the new altars, but thankfully many parishes have retained their original altars and you can even find some parishes now restoring their original altars.

I simply cannot imagine what entered into the minds of the Catholic Church to do such a thing... This haunts me.
Logged

St Basil the Great (330-379 A.D.): “I think then that the one goal of all who are really and truly serving the Lord ought to be to bring back to union the churches who have at different times and in diverse manners divided from one another.”
arimethea
Getting too old for this
Section Moderator
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Holy Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Patriarchate of Antioch
Posts: 2,968


Does anyone really care what you think?


« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2008, 06:23:28 PM »

What happened to the Relics within them?
Many went into the dumpster, but at one time Ebay was flooded with them.
Logged

Joseph
scamandrius
Crusher of Secrets; House Lannister
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek by desire; Antiochian by necessity
Posts: 5,926



« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2008, 06:58:43 PM »

There is a convent (sorry, can't remember the neame) in Maryville, MO where the nuns there have amassed a huge collection of relics from various altars around the world, but mostly from this country.  A lot of these relics have been given to Orthodox churches since the nuns knew they would be preserved.  They were preserving them from the dumpster which happened in the wake of Vatican II.  I don't know exactly what they have as I have never been to this convent, but they do welcome visitors. 
Logged

I seek the truth by which no man was ever harmed--Marcus Aurelius

Those who do not read  history are doomed to get their facts from Hollywood--Anonymous

What earthly joy remains untouched by grief?--St. John Damascene
Basil 320
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, Holy Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 3,015



« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2008, 12:54:56 AM »

Is this for real?  Were relics disposed of?  I have read the post about the convent above.  Were they relics of saints or older, unused accouterments. This is too difficult to believe.  When they either moved the Altar Table or constructed a new Altar, apart from the wall of the Sanctuary, why wouldn't the relics be transferred and embedded into the new Altar?  Or, I've noticed that they moved the tabernacle to the side of the solea, so to speak.  Why wouldn't they likewise, move the relics to accompany the tabernacle?  I simply can't believe they would dispose of relics.

Aside from the matter of the disposition of the relics, the movement of the Alter, was a post Vatican II reform to return to the tradition of placing the Altear in the middle of the sanctuary, consistant with the tradition the Orthodox Church maintained.  Prior to Vatican II, the attachment of the Altar Table to the sanctuary wall, was typically listed by the Orthodox as one of the innovations of the West.  Although, concurrently making the change to having the celebrant face the congregation, rather than leading the congregation, is innovative.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2008, 01:08:30 AM by Basil 320 » Logged

"...Strengthen the Orthodox Community..."
lubeltri
Latin Catholic layman
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Archdiocese of Boston
Posts: 3,795



« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2008, 12:38:26 PM »

I simply cannot imagine what entered into the minds of the Catholic Church to do such a thing... This haunts me.

Remember the smashing of icons in the 8th century East? This is what we in the West have been grappling with during the last several decades---a disastrous Iconoclasm. Pope Benedict should make a recording to play at church entrances: Please stand by whilst we make necessary repairs...
« Last Edit: July 13, 2008, 12:38:50 PM by lubeltri » Logged
Riddikulus
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,788



« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2008, 08:28:05 PM »

Remember the smashing of icons in the 8th century East? This is what we in the West have been grappling with during the last several decades---a disastrous Iconoclasm. Pope Benedict should make a recording to play at church entrances: Please stand by whilst we make necessary repairs...

Is there iconoclasm within the Catholic Church?
Logged

I believe in One God, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
Theodosius Dobzhansky, Russian Orthodox Christian (1900-1975)
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 31,821


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2008, 08:33:08 PM »

Is there iconoclasm within the Catholic Church?
What I keep hearing from a close friend who's a former Catholic is that since Vatican II there have been a lot of changes motivated by the desire to make an almost total break from traditional liturgical norms.  I guess this would count as a form of iconoclasm, according to the looser way we often use the word nowadays.  I wouldn't necessarily read this as a newly developed antagonism toward icons, though.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2008, 08:33:31 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
Riddikulus
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,788



« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2008, 08:37:40 PM »

What I keep hearing from a close friend who's a former Catholic is that since Vatican II there have been a lot of changes motivated by the desire to make an almost total break from traditional liturgical norms.  I guess this would count as a form of iconoclasm, according to the looser way we often use the word nowadays.  I wouldn't necessarily read this as a newly developed antagonism toward icons, though.

As I have read the foregoing posts, I have been hoping that this was based on exaggerated rumour. So relics have really been destroyed?
Logged

I believe in One God, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
Theodosius Dobzhansky, Russian Orthodox Christian (1900-1975)
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 31,821


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2008, 08:55:39 PM »

So relics have really been destroyed?
That I do not know.  All I do know is second-hand news mixed in with a lot of commentary.
Logged
Rosehip
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Posts: 2,760



« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2008, 08:58:00 PM »

I really can't believe this either, if it's true! It's terribly sad... Cry
Logged

+ Our dear sister Martha (Rosehip) passed away on Dec 20, 2010.  May her memory be eternal! +
Athanasios
Latin Rite Catholic faithful to the Holy Father and the Magisterium
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Latin Church Diocese of Youngstown
Posts: 1,800


The Divine Mercy


« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2008, 09:23:37 PM »

Hello,

What I keep hearing from a close friend who's a former Catholic is that since Vatican II there have been a lot of changes motivated by the desire to make an almost total break from traditional liturgical norms.  I guess this would count as a form of iconoclasm, according to the looser way we often use the word nowadays.  I wouldn't necessarily read this as a newly developed antagonism toward icons, though.

Maybe we can coin the term - liturgiclasm.  Wink

Yes, many have a deep hatred of anything traditional and demand progress at all costs - the type of erroneous attitude that anything new must be better simply because it is newer. It has been about forty years for us in the desert (I do see some parallels to Exodus), but now we are starting to come around. The pendulum is swinging back. It was just announced that from now on at Papal Masses the Eucharist will be received by the faithful on the tongue while kneeling. There are many signs that reverence for the Liturgy is making a resounding comeback.

Other things that have been attacked since the Council besides the Liturgy are any sort of religious images - hence the denuding of many Parishes (a true type of iconoclasm); the Eucharist - hence the Tabernacle moved down the hall to a closet; Mary - hence the non-recitation of the Rosary, no May Crownings, etc.; the idea that man sins - hence Confession is not hardly attended; the list could go on. But, now many Parishes are bringing back the statues and religious artworks, they are restoring the Tabernacle to the Sanctuary, they are praying the Rosary and other Marian devotions, Confession lines are growing, etc.

Now that we have experienced this in the wake of a Council is not to be a surprise, it is usually the case that it takes 50-100 years for the Church to settle down after a Council (i.e., the Arians didn't go quiet into the night; nor the Nestorians).
Logged

Through the intercession of Our Lady of Mount Carmel, may Jesus Christ bless you abundantly.

Pray that we may be one, as Christ and His Father are one. (John 17:20ff)

A.K.A. - JMJ_coder
Athanasios
Latin Rite Catholic faithful to the Holy Father and the Magisterium
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Latin Church Diocese of Youngstown
Posts: 1,800


The Divine Mercy


« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2008, 09:25:56 PM »

Hello,

As I have read the foregoing posts, I have been hoping that this was based on exaggerated rumour. So relics have really been destroyed?

If they have any obedience to the Church they didn't - since Canon Law says that all fixed altars must have a relic in them (Canon 1237).
Logged

Through the intercession of Our Lady of Mount Carmel, may Jesus Christ bless you abundantly.

Pray that we may be one, as Christ and His Father are one. (John 17:20ff)

A.K.A. - JMJ_coder
Riddikulus
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,788



« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2008, 09:27:38 PM »

Hello,

If they have any obedience to the Church they didn't - since Canon Law says that all fixed altars must have a relic in them (Canon 1237). 

Let's hope that is the case. Smiley
Logged

I believe in One God, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
Theodosius Dobzhansky, Russian Orthodox Christian (1900-1975)
Riddikulus
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,788



« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2008, 09:28:34 PM »

Now that we have experienced this in the wake of a Council is not to be a surprise, it is usually the case that it takes 50-100 years for the Church to settle down after a Council (i.e., the Arians didn't go quiet into the night; nor the Nestorians).

Hopefully, after the dust has settled, all will go back to normal.
Logged

I believe in One God, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
Theodosius Dobzhansky, Russian Orthodox Christian (1900-1975)
Athanasios
Latin Rite Catholic faithful to the Holy Father and the Magisterium
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Latin Church Diocese of Youngstown
Posts: 1,800


The Divine Mercy


« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2008, 09:33:22 PM »

Hello,

Hopefully, after the dust has settled, all will go back to normal.

Hopefully, after the dust has settled, the Church will be even stronger.  angel

Thanks for the prayers!
Logged

Through the intercession of Our Lady of Mount Carmel, may Jesus Christ bless you abundantly.

Pray that we may be one, as Christ and His Father are one. (John 17:20ff)

A.K.A. - JMJ_coder
Riddikulus
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,788



« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2008, 09:43:45 PM »

Hello,

Hopefully, after the dust has settled, the Church will be even stronger.  angel

Yes, indeed! As Nietzsche said; What doesn't kill us makes us stronger.  Wink

Quote
Thanks for the prayers!

You are very welcome.
Logged

I believe in One God, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
Theodosius Dobzhansky, Russian Orthodox Christian (1900-1975)
Thomas
Section Moderator
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 2,785



« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2008, 09:54:06 PM »

I was a young man during the period when the Latin Churches went through the renovations.  Many of the priests and some bishops misunderstood the directives or in some cases , lack of directives and  became one man shows ripping out statues, altars,anything that they felt was old fashioned and causing them to lose the young from their parishes.  Some saints were made optional and taken off as required feast and transferred to optional or local feasts calendars (St Nicholas of Myra was one)---some ill informed clergy and parish councils thought that meant they were no longer saints and their relics became just bits of human remains. In most cases some on in the parish would ask the priest for relics that were no longer being used so they could preserve them or have them sent to a monastery or convent to be properly disposed of, many priests jumped at this solution to what they felt was a sticky issue (some in the parish wanted the "false" saints off the parish property/ some pious and traditionalists wanted to assure the relics were preserved and handled as sacred objects).

Some of the Latin monasteries and convents themselves were about to undergo modernizations and so to local Orthodox Churches or Orthodox Monasteries and Orthodox Convents, they offered relics of those Saints they knew that the Orthodox celebrated as Orthodox Saints. Older latin nuns and monks sent the purely Latin Saints to relatives, various vagante groups , etc.  As most of these relics had papers from the Vatican certifying them as genuine the recipients  whether Orthodox and Latin Catholic were happy to recieve them.

Thomas
« Last Edit: July 13, 2008, 10:02:36 PM by Thomas » Logged

Your brother in Christ ,
Thomas
stashko
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: ИСТОЧНИ ПРАВОСЛАВНИ СРБИН
Jurisdiction: Non Ecumenist Free Serbian Orthodox Church
Posts: 4,998


Wonderworking Sitka Icon


« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2008, 11:46:09 PM »

Hello,

Hopefully, after the dust has settled, the Church will be even stronger.  angel

Thanks for the prayers!



Hi a friend of mine use to sell the catholic altar stones that had relic's inbeded in them ,also all kind of catholic relic's chalices,,monsterances,,,tabernacals,,censer's ,old latin vestment's..prayer Books...little nun's watches..and monk watches that resembled little pocket watches.......
all kind's of thing's statues ,altar candle holder's alter linen's.....and other thing's
   He even had some one from ewtn Mother Angelica come over to check out what he had for sale,,they only wanted the silver and the Gold religious object's.....
 his biggest clientèle,,,were monseniors,and future priests,,re-purchasing trying to recapture what they lost during
the vatican 11 reform's.....He sold his building were his store was located......He him self isn't catholic but Lutheran...He May even Have some of that stuff left stored in his garage.......SmileyCentral.com" border="0Wanted to add the catholic church with it's vatican 2 reform's kept him in business for quite a long time ,,i asked him are you counting your blessing's 123 ,,he said you betcha i am....
« Last Edit: July 14, 2008, 02:57:17 AM by stashko » Logged

ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.
ytterbiumanalyst
Professor Emeritus, CSA
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA Diocese of the Midwest
Posts: 8,790



« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2008, 09:10:21 AM »

I'm hoping this is not the case, but the track record says probably yes. This is the church that destroyed the Holy Cross a thousand years ago.
Logged

"It is remarkable that what we call the world...in what professes to be true...will allow in one man no blemishes, and in another no virtue."--Charles Dickens
stashko
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: ИСТОЧНИ ПРАВОСЛАВНИ СРБИН
Jurisdiction: Non Ecumenist Free Serbian Orthodox Church
Posts: 4,998


Wonderworking Sitka Icon


« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2008, 12:01:32 PM »

I'm hoping this is not the case, but the track record says probably yes. This is the church that destroyed the Holy Cross a thousand years ago.


I don't quite follow what you mean here.....Huh??.......SmileyCentral.com" border="0
Logged

ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.
ytterbiumanalyst
Professor Emeritus, CSA
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA Diocese of the Midwest
Posts: 8,790



« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2008, 01:16:41 PM »

When the Crusaders took Jerusalem in 1099, they ousted the ruling Patriarch of Jerusalem, set up their own Patriarch, and "obtained" the Cross from the Orthodox as plunder:

Quote from: Hamilton, Bernard. Catholic Historical Review, Oct94, Vol. 80 Issue 4, p695, 19p
The crusaders completely redesigned the site. The apse of the rotunda was demolished, as was the courtyard and its chapels, and a Gothic cathedral was built on to the west end of the rotunda. The Calvary chapel was incorporated in the cathedral; it was built over a pillar of natural rock and was approached by a staircase from the south aisle. Another staircase, pierced in the wall of the ambulatory, gave access to the St. Helena crypt. The Catholic Patriarch's throne, which stood behind the high altar in the new choir, thus faced down the whole length of the cathedral toward the entrance to the Holy Sepulchre in the center of the rotunda. The Crusaders had obtained from the native Christians of Jerusalem a relic which they believed was a substantial portion of the True Cross. They encased this in a golden reliquary studded with cabuchon jewels, and it was permanently on view for the veneration of the faithful in a chapel of the new apse.

Only a portion of this Cross remained in Jerusalem; the rest was scattered over Europe as relics. What we held dear and preserved for a millennium they destroyed as spoils of war. Thus I'm not too impressed when Catholics say they the changes they've made have left relics intact.
Logged

"It is remarkable that what we call the world...in what professes to be true...will allow in one man no blemishes, and in another no virtue."--Charles Dickens
lubeltri
Latin Catholic layman
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Archdiocese of Boston
Posts: 3,795



« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2008, 02:51:03 PM »

Only a portion of this Cross remained in Jerusalem; the rest was scattered over Europe as relics. What we held dear and preserved for a millennium they destroyed as spoils of war. Thus I'm not too impressed when Catholics say they the changes they've made have left relics intact.

It was not destroyed, at least from their point of view---it was fragmented for veneration across Europe.

Further, even if it were destroyed as you say, I do not see the logic of using an incident involving Crusaders to determine how you interpret/judge a completely unrelated incident occurring 900 years later. Very queer logic as the basis for judgment, if you ask me.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2008, 02:51:28 PM by lubeltri » Logged
stashko
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: ИСТОЧНИ ПРАВОСЛАВНИ СРБИН
Jurisdiction: Non Ecumenist Free Serbian Orthodox Church
Posts: 4,998


Wonderworking Sitka Icon


« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2008, 05:38:44 PM »

Didn't the Vatican catholic church mis-place a holy relic of St.John the baptist that they found in a cubberd or some other holy saint's leg Bone the we orthodox hold very dear sacred and holy,,and which we were shocked when we heard about it's casual treatment and it's mis -treatment....it was in the papers a while back.....SmileyCentral.com" border="0
   
Logged

ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.
username!
Moderator
Protokentarchos
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Ukrainian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Pennsylvaniadoxy
Posts: 5,063



« Reply #25 on: July 14, 2008, 05:47:38 PM »

Didn't the Vatican catholic church mis-place a holy relic of St.John the baptist that they found in a cubberd or some other holy saint's leg Bone the we orthodox hold very dear sacred and holy,,and which we were shocked when we heard about it's casual treatment and it's mis -treatment....it was in the papers a while back.....SmileyCentral.com" border="0
   


That sounds like the biggest iffy story I've heard in the past two weeks.
Logged

stashko
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: ИСТОЧНИ ПРАВОСЛАВНИ СРБИН
Jurisdiction: Non Ecumenist Free Serbian Orthodox Church
Posts: 4,998


Wonderworking Sitka Icon


« Reply #26 on: July 14, 2008, 06:02:37 PM »

That sounds like the biggest iffy story I've heard in the past two weeks.


ACTUALLY IT WAS IN THE PAPER'S A WHILE BACK........I DIDN'T MAKE IT UP.......SmileyCentral.com" border="0
Logged

ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.
SolEX01
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, Holy Metropolis of New Jersey
Posts: 11,087


WWW
« Reply #27 on: July 14, 2008, 06:13:50 PM »


ACTUALLY IT WAS IN THE PAPER'S A WHILE BACK........I DIDN'T MAKE IT UP.......

You're sure the article didn't appear in The Onion which publishes a lot of satirical, nonsense and absurd articles?

Shroud of Turin Accidentally Washed
Logged
Rosehip
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Posts: 2,760



« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2008, 06:25:22 PM »

I'm sure it's an easy thing to do, but let's not hold ancient grudges against one another. We must forgive and let the past remain there. There're a lot of Old Believers and Jewish people etc. who still can't forgive things we've done to them. Please do not be offended anyone, by my words. I myself an a total hypocrite in this area... Embarrassed, for I can easily forgive such acts, but have trouble forgiving certain folks amongst my very kith and kin... therefore, I am worse...Lord have mercy on us all.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2008, 06:26:02 PM by Rosehip » Logged

+ Our dear sister Martha (Rosehip) passed away on Dec 20, 2010.  May her memory be eternal! +
stashko
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: ИСТОЧНИ ПРАВОСЛАВНИ СРБИН
Jurisdiction: Non Ecumenist Free Serbian Orthodox Church
Posts: 4,998


Wonderworking Sitka Icon


« Reply #29 on: July 14, 2008, 06:28:46 PM »

NO IT WAS IN THE REGULAR NEW'S PAPER IT WASN'T A LEG BONE BUT  THE SKULL OF SAINT JOHN THE BAPTIST WAS MISPLACED PUT IN A CUBBURD ....THAY HAVE IN MOUNT ATHO'S A PIECE OF THE LOWER JAW BONE FROM THAT SKULL THAT'S MYRRH RUNNING..CONTINUOUSLY....THE GREEK CHURCH DID COMMENT ON IT'S CASUAL TREATMENT BY THE VATICAN....SmileyCentral.com" border="0
Logged

ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.
Entscheidungsproblem
Formerly Friul & Nebelpfade
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Machine God
Posts: 4,495



WWW
« Reply #30 on: July 14, 2008, 06:44:31 PM »

Please do not use all caps.

Also, which "head"?  If you look up the "head" or "skull" of St. John the Baptist, he must have been a hydra of sorts.  There are several ones on display, as well as stories of where it is actually buried/interned (Amiens, Damascus, Rome, Antioch, Egypt, etc).  There have been skulls on display constantly for centuries in Western Europe, so I am unsure of which you are speaking of. 
Logged

As a result of a thousand million years of evolution, the universe is becoming conscious of itself, able to understand something of its past history and its possible future.
-- Sir Julian Sorell Huxley FRS
stashko
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: ИСТОЧНИ ПРАВОСЛАВНИ СРБИН
Jurisdiction: Non Ecumenist Free Serbian Orthodox Church
Posts: 4,998


Wonderworking Sitka Icon


« Reply #31 on: July 14, 2008, 07:21:20 PM »

i would go with the one that's myrrh streaming that's  at the Holy Mount Atho's ......if i had to pick one....SmileyCentral.com" border="0
Logged

ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.
theistgal
Byzantine (Ruthenian) Catholic gadfly
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Follower of Jesus Christ
Jurisdiction: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 2,082


don't even go there!


« Reply #32 on: July 14, 2008, 07:26:27 PM »

Please do not use all caps.

Also, which "head"?  If you look up the "head" or "skull" of St. John the Baptist, he must have been a hydra of sorts.  There are several ones on display, as well as stories of where it is actually buried/interned (Amiens, Damascus, Rome, Antioch, Egypt, etc).  There have been skulls on display constantly for centuries in Western Europe, so I am unsure of which you are speaking of. 

Yes, it's true.  There's an old story about two monasteries in medieval times who both claimed to have "the head of John the Baptist".

Now the Pope knew that the first monastery had the relic which he himself had given them.  So he paid a visit to the second monastery and demanded that the Abbot explain himself.

Without batting an eye, the Abbot said, "Oh yes, your Holiness, it's true - they have the Head of St. John from when he was killed, and we have the Head from when he was a child."
Logged

"Sometimes, you just gotta say, 'OK, I still have nine live, two-headed animals' and move on.'' (owner of Coney Island freak show, upon learning he'd been outbid on a 5-legged puppy)
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 31,821


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #33 on: July 14, 2008, 07:40:48 PM »

^ LOL!  That sounds like something right out of the Weekly World News.  "Beheaded man grows new head." Cheesy
Logged
stashko
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: ИСТОЧНИ ПРАВОСЛАВНИ СРБИН
Jurisdiction: Non Ecumenist Free Serbian Orthodox Church
Posts: 4,998


Wonderworking Sitka Icon


« Reply #34 on: July 14, 2008, 07:52:40 PM »

Yes, it's true.  There's an old story about two monasteries in medieval times who both claimed to have "the head of John the Baptist".

Now the Pope knew that the first monastery had the relic which he himself had given them.  So he paid a visit to the second monastery and demanded that the Abbot explain himself.

Without batting an eye, the Abbot said, "Oh yes, your Holiness, it's true - they have the Head of St. John from when he was killed, and we have the Head from when he was a child."


This is so funny i like it,,Ha Ha Ha.................SmileyCentral.com" border="0......SmileyCentral.com" border="0
« Last Edit: July 14, 2008, 07:54:24 PM by stashko » Logged

ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.
Riddikulus
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,788



« Reply #35 on: July 14, 2008, 08:39:22 PM »

I'm sure it's an easy thing to do, but let's not hold ancient grudges against one another. We must forgive and let the past remain there. There're a lot of Old Believers and Jewish people etc. who still can't forgive things we've done to them. Please do not be offended anyone, by my words. I myself an a total hypocrite in this area... Embarrassed, for I can easily forgive such acts, but have trouble forgiving certain folks amongst my very kith and kin... therefore, I am worse...Lord have mercy on us all.

Amen. Lord, have mercy.
Logged

I believe in One God, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
Theodosius Dobzhansky, Russian Orthodox Christian (1900-1975)
Riddikulus
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,788



« Reply #36 on: July 14, 2008, 08:44:09 PM »

Please do not use all caps.

Also, which "head"?  If you look up the "head" or "skull" of St. John the Baptist, he must have been a hydra of sorts.  There are several ones on display, as well as stories of where it is actually buried/interned (Amiens, Damascus, Rome, Antioch, Egypt, etc).  There have been skulls on display constantly for centuries in Western Europe, so I am unsure of which you are speaking of. 

I remember visiting the Monastery of St Macarius near Alexandria - the monk who took us on a tour of the place also claimed - though very honestly dubious and with a shrug of the shoulders - that they had one of St John's heads.
Logged

I believe in One God, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
Theodosius Dobzhansky, Russian Orthodox Christian (1900-1975)
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 16,010


In solidarity with Iraqi and Syrian Nazarenes


WWW
« Reply #37 on: July 14, 2008, 10:07:38 PM »

A hydra!!  LOL!
Logged

Apolytikion, Tone 1, by Antonis

An eloquent crafter of divine posts
And an inheritor of the line of the Baptist
A righteous son of India
And a new apostle to the internet
O Holy Mor Ephrem,
Intercede for us, that our forum may be saved.


"Mor is a jerk." - kelly
Jakub
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,746



« Reply #38 on: July 16, 2008, 12:19:10 AM »

Yes, it's true.  There's an old story about two monasteries in medieval times who both claimed to have "the head of John the Baptist".

Now the Pope knew that the first monastery had the relic which he himself had given them.  So he paid a visit to the second monastery and demanded that the Abbot explain himself.

Without batting an eye, the Abbot said, "Oh yes, your Holiness, it's true - they have the Head of St. John from when he was killed, and we have the Head from when he was a child."

Monks do have a sense of humor...excellent
Logged

An old timer is a man who's had a lot of interesting experiences -- some of them true.

Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Athanasios
Latin Rite Catholic faithful to the Holy Father and the Magisterium
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Latin Church Diocese of Youngstown
Posts: 1,800


The Divine Mercy


« Reply #39 on: July 18, 2008, 06:33:11 PM »

Hello,

Monks do have a sense of humor...excellent

Many of the Saints had a very witty sense of humor.  Smiley
Logged

Through the intercession of Our Lady of Mount Carmel, may Jesus Christ bless you abundantly.

Pray that we may be one, as Christ and His Father are one. (John 17:20ff)

A.K.A. - JMJ_coder
ytterbiumanalyst
Professor Emeritus, CSA
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA Diocese of the Midwest
Posts: 8,790



« Reply #40 on: July 19, 2008, 05:42:45 PM »

It was not destroyed, at least from their point of view---it was fragmented for veneration across Europe.
I'm aware of the Catholic position on this. Just because someone says something does not make it true.

Quote
Further, even if it were destroyed as you say, I do not see the logic of using an incident involving Crusaders to determine how you interpret/judge a completely unrelated incident occurring 900 years later. Very queer logic as the basis for judgment, if you ask me.
I see both as indicative of Catholic treatment of relics. They seem to be much more concerned with distributing relics to the people than with preserving them.
Logged

"It is remarkable that what we call the world...in what professes to be true...will allow in one man no blemishes, and in another no virtue."--Charles Dickens
Αριστοκλής
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese
Posts: 10,026


« Reply #41 on: July 19, 2008, 08:24:16 PM »

Not to overly defend the RCC for these alleged treatments of holy relics, but we ourselves (sort of) have a past history of somewhat poor use/treatment of them as well. In early 15th century Manuel II Palaeologos (a theologian himself of some note) traveled to the west with a huge cache of holy relics, using them as gifts and barter to further his mission to garner military support against the Turks (visiting all western monarchs and both popes). His actions raised eyebrows then as well.
Logged

"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides
ignatius
Baptacathadox
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic > Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA - Diocese of the South
Posts: 1,690


My Son Aidan... :-)


« Reply #42 on: July 20, 2008, 03:22:08 PM »

Not to overly defend the RCC for these alleged treatments of holy relics, but we ourselves (sort of) have a past history of somewhat poor use/treatment of them as well. In early 15th century Manuel II Palaeologos (a theologian himself of some note) traveled to the west with a huge cache of holy relics, using them as gifts and barter to further his mission to garner military support against the Turks (visiting all western monarchs and both popes). His actions raised eyebrows then as well.

Grace and Peace,

Yes, my point wasn't to 'kick at church when it is down' but to point out a valuable lesson lost from the living history of the Church in the present life of the Roman Catholic Church. I honestly believe it is a kind of Iconoclastism we are witnessing in the Roman Catholic Church and an error that will need to be 'overcome' God Willing. As Orthodox we can learn a valuable lesson to 'never' forget our 'true' relevancy in the face of modernity... the means to transcend and not to join. It was never my intension to simply belittle Roman Catholicism or the 'reforms' of Post-Vatican II but to ask the critical questions.
Logged

St Basil the Great (330-379 A.D.): “I think then that the one goal of all who are really and truly serving the Lord ought to be to bring back to union the churches who have at different times and in diverse manners divided from one another.”
stashko
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: ИСТОЧНИ ПРАВОСЛАВНИ СРБИН
Jurisdiction: Non Ecumenist Free Serbian Orthodox Church
Posts: 4,998


Wonderworking Sitka Icon


« Reply #43 on: July 20, 2008, 04:15:27 PM »

I don't look at it as belittleing the catholic church in what you wrote not at all...I guess rome wanted to please the protestant's in these vatican 2 reform's, so it would attract many protestant convert's in mass conversion...that didn't work like they wanted..i never quite understood that saying that protestant's and catholic's are different sides of the same coin till now....
 At least we orthodox know what not to do.....it's sad ,,  what the catholic church held holy and sacred was discarded in a flash....
 Did these vatican 2 reform's affect the catholic churches in europe and other places accross the globe as badly  or just here in the U.S.A.Huh?....SmileyCentral.com" border="0
« Last Edit: July 20, 2008, 04:18:29 PM by stashko » Logged

ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.
ytterbiumanalyst
Professor Emeritus, CSA
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA Diocese of the Midwest
Posts: 8,790



« Reply #44 on: July 20, 2008, 07:17:13 PM »

I don't look at it as belittleing the catholic church in what you wrote not at all...I guess rome wanted to please the protestant's in these vatican 2 reform's, so it would attract many protestant convert's in mass conversion...that didn't work like they wanted..i never quite understood that saying that protestant's and catholic's are different sides of the same coin till now....
And this should be quite sobering. If one of the Five Bishops could fall so far, then any of the others could as well. We should ponder these events as we do all such events in the life of our estranged sister: as warnings for us that we, too, could separate ourselves from the Body of Christ. This calls for prayer and repentance rather than condemnation.
Logged

"It is remarkable that what we call the world...in what professes to be true...will allow in one man no blemishes, and in another no virtue."--Charles Dickens
Matariel
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Faith: Anglican (considering Orthodoxy or Catholicism)
Jurisdiction: Anglican Diocese of the Chesapeake
Posts: 6


« Reply #45 on: August 22, 2008, 08:17:23 PM »

I'm aware of the Catholic position on this. Just because someone says something does not make it true.
I see both as indicative of Catholic treatment of relics. They seem to be much more concerned with distributing relics to the people than with preserving them.

The Cross had probably already disintegrated to the point of being more than one relic, so it was ok to distribute it, as it was probably already in pieces. We're talking about the Holiest Relic in Catholicism, Anglicanism, and Orthodoxy here! I'm sure they didn't do anything to disrespect it.
Logged
ytterbiumanalyst
Professor Emeritus, CSA
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA Diocese of the Midwest
Posts: 8,790



« Reply #46 on: August 24, 2008, 05:59:01 PM »

We're also talking about soldiers who were not paid outside the loot they obtained, and who were not necessarily going for religious reasons.
Logged

"It is remarkable that what we call the world...in what professes to be true...will allow in one man no blemishes, and in another no virtue."--Charles Dickens
Vlad
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: Orthodox, Greek Orthodox Church of America
Posts: 405



« Reply #47 on: September 18, 2008, 01:53:45 AM »

Why did the Catholic Church destroy it's Holy Alters? Because it fell victim to the heresy of Modernism (of which it is still hopelessly infected, like the Arian crisis)defined by Popes Pius IX, Leo XIII and Pius X. In the 1960's instead of trying to bring the truth to the world it compromised with the world. It destroyed all of it's venerable traditions. Cry As a Catholic this makes me very sad. And is a large part of the reason I found Holy Orthodoxy.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2008, 01:54:43 AM by Vlad » Logged
stashko
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: ИСТОЧНИ ПРАВОСЛАВНИ СРБИН
Jurisdiction: Non Ecumenist Free Serbian Orthodox Church
Posts: 4,998


Wonderworking Sitka Icon


« Reply #48 on: September 18, 2008, 01:59:34 AM »

Hummm ,, i  thought the changes were for  protestant conversion enmass,thats why they did all the changes...to appeal to them but it didn't work like they hoped....SmileyCentral.com" border="0
Logged

ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.
Vlad
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: Orthodox, Greek Orthodox Church of America
Posts: 405



« Reply #49 on: September 18, 2008, 02:15:24 AM »

Hummm ,, i  thought the changes were for  protestant conversion enmass,thats why they did all the changes...to appeal to them but it didn't work like they hoped....SmileyCentral.com" border="0

Right that was part of it. Change the Mass, get rid of statues, downplay traditional devotions so that the heretics will come back. All of which was condemned in the past. What is heresy yesterday is okay today. What one Pope called Anathema one day today is just fine. Thanks but no thanks I prefer a Church that doesn't change with the prevailing zeitgeist. How can you have the truth if you change every twenty years or every Pope depending onwhat comes first? All this did was to drive over 1/3 of Catholics out of the Church.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2008, 02:27:25 AM by Vlad » Logged
stashko
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: ИСТОЧНИ ПРАВОСЛАВНИ СРБИН
Jurisdiction: Non Ecumenist Free Serbian Orthodox Church
Posts: 4,998


Wonderworking Sitka Icon


« Reply #50 on: September 18, 2008, 02:41:56 AM »

Thats why i thank God we don't have anything like a super pope ...I was wondering if the roman pontiffs never had this supreme authority and all the the bishops were equal ,,the bishops would never have allowed these changes to happen...since there power was taken away and rested in one person the pope this is what happened,,,sad...SmileyCentral.com" border="0
Logged

ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.
lubeltri
Latin Catholic layman
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Archdiocese of Boston
Posts: 3,795



« Reply #51 on: September 18, 2008, 10:53:22 AM »

Thats why i thank God we don't have anything like a super pope ...I was wondering if the roman pontiffs never had this supreme authority and all the the bishops were equal ,,the bishops would never have allowed these changes to happen...since there power was taken away and rested in one person the pope this is what happened,,,sad...SmileyCentral.com" border="0

Sorry, but I wouldn't trust the US bishops with many things. Thank God for the Pope. It was because Paul VI failed to exert his authority that the chaos occurred.

« Last Edit: September 18, 2008, 10:57:54 AM by lubeltri » Logged
lubeltri
Latin Catholic layman
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Archdiocese of Boston
Posts: 3,795



« Reply #52 on: September 18, 2008, 10:55:36 AM »

Why did the Catholic Church destroy it's Holy Alters? Because it fell victim to the heresy of Modernism (of which it is still hopelessly infected, like the Arian crisis)defined by Popes Pius IX, Leo XIII and Pius X. In the 1960's instead of trying to bring the truth to the world it compromised with the world. It destroyed all of it's venerable traditions. Cry As a Catholic this makes me very sad. And is a large part of the reason I found Holy Orthodoxy.

Would you have jumped ship during Iconoclasm? The last 40 years in the Church certainly have been a test of faith.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2008, 11:04:43 AM by lubeltri » Logged
ignatius
Baptacathadox
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic > Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA - Diocese of the South
Posts: 1,690


My Son Aidan... :-)


« Reply #53 on: September 18, 2008, 11:00:30 AM »

Thats why i thank God we don't have anything like a super pope ...I was wondering if the roman pontiffs never had this supreme authority and all the the bishops were equal ,,the bishops would never have allowed these changes to happen...since there power was taken away and rested in one person the pope this is what happened,,,sad...SmileyCentral.com" border="0

Sorry, but I wouldn't trust the US bishops with many things. Thank God for the Pope. It was because Paul VI failed to exert his authority that the chaos occurred.

Yes there is something about our culture which seems to suck the religious life right out of our Shepherds... 

The OCA is working through this 'right now'. Pray for us. Sad
Logged

St Basil the Great (330-379 A.D.): “I think then that the one goal of all who are really and truly serving the Lord ought to be to bring back to union the churches who have at different times and in diverse manners divided from one another.”
lubeltri
Latin Catholic layman
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Archdiocese of Boston
Posts: 3,795



« Reply #54 on: September 18, 2008, 11:04:07 AM »

Thats why i thank God we don't have anything like a super pope ...I was wondering if the roman pontiffs never had this supreme authority and all the the bishops were equal ,,the bishops would never have allowed these changes to happen...since there power was taken away and rested in one person the pope this is what happened,,,sad...SmileyCentral.com" border="0

Sorry, but I wouldn't trust the US bishops with many things. Thank God for the Pope. It was because Paul VI failed to exert his authority that the chaos occurred.

Yes there is something about our culture which seems to suck the religious life right out of our Shepherds... 

The OCA is working through this 'right now'. Pray for us. Sad

Brother Ignatius, I think you're right---something about this culture encourages us all to desire false "peace" at the expense of truth. Our shepherds represent Christ---they should be bringing the sword.

I'm afraid our Church was going to have to face the storm---the "synthesis of all heresies"---at one time or another. She is weathering it, though there have been many and grievous losses. Pope Leo XIII of glorious memory foresaw it. He had visions of what was to come in the 20th century. That is why he wrote the St. Michael prayer.

All Christian churches and communities must face it at one time or another. The world is more arrayed against Christianity than at any time since antiquity (and perhaps even more than then---secularism is more of a challenge to the faith than paganism).
« Last Edit: September 18, 2008, 11:12:36 AM by lubeltri » Logged
ChristusDominus
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Latin Rite
Posts: 936


Saint Aloysius Gonzaga


« Reply #55 on: November 08, 2009, 05:59:40 PM »

What happened to the Relics within them?
Many went into the dumpster, but at one time Ebay was flooded with them.
I know this thread is over a year old, but I was in disbelief when I read this. So, I just had to post a question here, if that's o.k with the moderators; Is this really true? Altars containing holy relics being sold on Ebay? It sounds like utter sacrilege.
Logged

There is no more evident sign that anyone is a saint and of the number of the elect, than to see him leading a good life and at the same time a prey to desolation, suffering, and trials. - Saint Aloysius Gonzaga
ignatius
Baptacathadox
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic > Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA - Diocese of the South
Posts: 1,690


My Son Aidan... :-)


« Reply #56 on: November 08, 2009, 06:04:11 PM »

What happened to the Relics within them?
Many went into the dumpster, but at one time Ebay was flooded with them.
I know this thread is over a year old, but I was in disbelief when I read this. So, I just had to post a question here, if that's o.k with the moderators; Is this really true? Altars containing holy relics being sold on Ebay? It sounds like utter sacrilege.

Fortunately or Unfortunately the actual relics were taken out and discarded or given to devout Catholics with there paperwork. To me I find the whole affair disgusting and equal to the Iconoclasm. After we 'triumph' over this I firmly believe a Holy Day should be set aside for the "Triumph of Catholicism"...  Tongue
Logged

St Basil the Great (330-379 A.D.): “I think then that the one goal of all who are really and truly serving the Lord ought to be to bring back to union the churches who have at different times and in diverse manners divided from one another.”
Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 12,182


Praying for the Christians in Iraq


« Reply #57 on: November 09, 2009, 02:02:30 PM »

What happened to the Relics within them?
Many went into the dumpster, but at one time Ebay was flooded with them.
I know this thread is over a year old, but I was in disbelief when I read this. So, I just had to post a question here, if that's o.k with the moderators; Is this really true? Altars containing holy relics being sold on Ebay? It sounds like utter sacrilege.

Fortunately or Unfortunately the actual relics were taken out and discarded or given to devout Catholics with there paperwork. To me I find the whole affair disgusting and equal to the Iconoclasm. After we 'triumph' over this I firmly believe a Holy Day should be set aside for the "Triumph of Catholicism"...  Tongue
I agree!!! I tell you the day when we see the last of the modernist crisis in the Catholic Church I will be weeping in thanksgiving to Our Lord. A feast day for the triumph of our faith would be most welcomed. Thank God for Pope Benedict XVI and the New Liturgical Movement.
Logged

Note Papist's influence from the tyrannical monarchism of traditional papism .
Andrew21091
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Posts: 1,268



« Reply #58 on: November 13, 2009, 02:26:38 PM »

The Catholic Church does have iconoclasts within it. I was talking with my grandmother once who is a devout Catholic how after Vatican II, many of the very beautiful Catholic Churches in the city were gutted and many things were gotten rid of. She said that some parishes ripped out many of the beautiful statues and pretty much junked them (either they were thrown away or they are collecting a large amount of dust in a forgotten corner of the church basement) and other traditional things were taken out. Plus the music used in the majority of the Catholic churches here is horrid, many of them using Protestant hymns and instruments other than the organ (meaning guitar and drums). With these disregards to tradition, I wouldn't be surprised if many relics were thrown in the garbage. I do believe though that there is one church here in my city that is part of the society of Society of St. Pius X who have been able to preserve traditional Catholic piety.

I'm not Roman Catholic (used to be) but I do think it is terrible of how modern a lot of Catholic Churches are now a days. I do hope that they will one day be able to return to their older traditions.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2009, 02:28:00 PM by Andrew21091 » Logged
Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 12,182


Praying for the Christians in Iraq


« Reply #59 on: November 13, 2009, 02:29:45 PM »

I do hope that they will one day be able to return to their older traditions.
That is the direction in which we are moving.
Logged

Note Papist's influence from the tyrannical monarchism of traditional papism .
Tags: relics altar 
Pages: 1 2 All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.193 seconds with 89 queries.