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Author Topic: C of E Approves Women "Bishops" (link)  (Read 11793 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: July 08, 2008, 02:46:14 PM »

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Church-of-England-General-Synod-Backs-Female-Ordination/Article/200807115026204?lpos=UK%2BNews_1&lid=ARTICLE_15026204_Church%2Bof%2BEngland%2BGeneral%2BSynod%2BBacks%2BFemale%2BOrdination

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« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2008, 05:40:18 PM »

This is old news.
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« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2008, 06:15:38 PM »

This is old news.

No, Barbara Harris was ordained Bishop in the US Episcopal Church in 1989, and other women have been ordained Bishops in her wake; however, the story today is that not just the U.S. Episcopal Church, but the entire Church of England worldwide, has voted in favor of women bishops.
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« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2008, 06:32:06 PM »

A correction: The Church of England is one member of the Anglican Communion.  This decision affects only that part of the Communion.  It does not, for example, set up the consecration of a woman as a bishop The Anglican Church of South India, or Igreja Episcopal Anglicana do Brasil.  The Archbishop of Canterbury is "first among equals" as the head of the Church of England, similar to the EP.

Ebor

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« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2008, 06:35:50 PM »

The Anglo-Catholics must be thrilled.
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« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2008, 07:25:32 PM »

All things considered, I wonder how many Anglicans are the least bit affected that the Vatican '"regrets" the decision by the Church of England to allow the ordination of women bishops.'  Tongue

I love this wry comment on the story;

I would rather report through a female bishop than report through ROME.
Posted By :Matt Musson


Good one, Matt!  Grin
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« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2008, 07:47:21 PM »

Geraldine, the Vicar of Dibley, is the only woman I would ever like to have as a Bishop! Wink Grin
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« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2008, 08:00:40 PM »

This is old news.


LOL - thanks for the laugh.  I loved that show.  And I agree, she's the only female priest I've ever liked.

I have a female friend who is being ordained this weekend (not episcopal though - she hates anything liturgical).  To add to the festivities, she stated she doesn't want it to be some "stuffy traditional" ordination, so she's have a Luau themed ordination.  Shocked

It makes me kinda sad actually.
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« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2008, 08:15:10 PM »

Quote
A total of 1,333 clergy have threatened to leave the Church of England if they are not given legal safeguards to set up a network of parishes that would remain under male leadership.

They've been threatening to leave the CoE for over a quarter century now and still insist on sticking around. I'm sure every sensible memeber of the CoE is thinking to themselves 'when are these nutcases going to make good on their promises and actually leave the rest of us alone?'
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« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2008, 08:16:00 PM »

A correction: The Church of England is one member of the Anglican Communion.  This decision affects only that part of the Communion.  It does not, for example, set up the consecration of a woman as a bishop The Anglican Church of South India, or Igreja Episcopal Anglicana do Brasil.  The Archbishop of Canterbury is "first among equals" as the head of the Church of England, similar to the EP.

Ebor



Ebor,

Just as a matter of interest, there was a female Bishop consecrated in Australia recently, if memory serves me correctly. (There's no guarantee of that, of course!  Grin ) I have to admit that I thought female bishops would be a natural progression from female priests, so I wonder at the conflict/disagreement this has caused within the Anglican Church. Could you perhaps shed some light on this?
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« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2008, 08:25:24 PM »

They've been threatening to leave the CoE for over a quarter century now and still insist on sticking around. I'm sure every sensible memeber of the CoE is thinking to themselves 'when are these nutcases going to make good on their promises and actually leave the rest of us alone?'

It doesn't make any sense to me that there are women in the priesthood, yet they are somehow to be excluded from becoming Bishops.  Huh
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« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2008, 08:40:38 PM »

Just as a matter of interest, there was a female Bishop consecrated in Australia recently, if memory serves me correctly.
I don't think so.
The last Synod of the Anglican Church in Australia still voted against women Priests.
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« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2008, 08:42:00 PM »

I don't think so.
The last Synod of the Anglican Church in Australia still voted against women Priests.

I wonder what event I'm really thinking of, then!  laugh
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« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2008, 08:43:59 PM »

Oh hold on, though...

"Australia appoints woman bishop".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7414979.stm

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« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2008, 09:01:18 PM »

Here she is: Rt. Rev. Kay Goldsworthy:

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« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2008, 09:06:57 PM »

I don't think so.
The last Synod of the Anglican Church in Australia still voted against women Priests.

I think you are referring to Sydney, George. The Anglican diocese of Sydney is conservative Evangelical and does not go for women priests.
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« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2008, 09:14:58 PM »

C of E bishop will lead Anglicans to Rome

Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 04:30 PM GMT [General]

The Bishop of Ebbsfleet, the Rt Rev Andrew Burnham, is to lead his fellow Anglo-Catholics from the Church of England into the Roman Catholic Church, the Catholic Herald will reveal this week.

Bishop Burnham, one of two "flying bishops" in the province of Canterbury, has made a statement asking Pope Benedict XVI and the English Catholic bishops for "magnanimous gestures" that will allow traditionalists to become Catholics en masse.

He is confident that this will happen, following talks in Rome with Cardinal Levada, head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, and Cardinal Kasper, the Vatican's head of ecumenism. He was accompanied on his visit by the Rt Rev Keith Newton, Bishop of Richborough, the other Canterbury "flying bishop", who is expected to follow his example.

Bishop Burnham hopes that Rome will offer special arrangements whereby former Anglicans can stay worshipping in parishes under the guidance of a Catholic bishop. Most of these parishes already use the Roman liturgy, but there may be provision for Anglican prayers if churches request it.

Anglican priests who are already married will not be barred from ordination as priests, though Bishop Burnham would not be able to continue in episcopal orders, as he is married and there is an absolute bar on married bishops in the Roman and Orthodox Churches.

In his statement, Bishop Burnham explains why he is rejecting the code of practice offered to traditionalists by the General Synod last night. "How could we trust a code of practice to deliver a workable ecclesiology if every suggestion we have made for our inclusion has been turned down flat?" he asks.

"How could we trust a code of practice when those who are offering it include those who have done most to undermine and seek to revoke the code of practice in force for these last 14 years? ...

"What we must humbly ask for now is for magnanimous gestures from our Catholic friends, especially from the Holy Father, who well understands our longing for unity, and from the hierarchy of England and Wales. Most of all we ask for ways that allow us to bring our folk with us."


http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/damian_thompson/blog/2008/07/08/c_of_e_bishop_will_lead_anglicans_to_rome

--------

I wonder how the meetings between these CofE clerics and Rome will relate to the continuing (and secret) meetings between the Traditional Anglican Communion (who have petitioned Rome to cross the Tiber) and the Holy See. I would guess some arrangement (pastoral provision for married priests, concessions to Anglican liturgical traditions) would include both groups.
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« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2008, 09:22:25 PM »

Oh hold on, though...

"Australia appoints woman bishop".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7414979.stm



I think you are referring to Sydney, George. The Anglican diocese of Sydney is conservative Evangelical and does not go for women priests.

That does it! I'm moving to Perth!
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« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2008, 09:42:46 PM »

Ozgeorge said,

Quote
That does it! I'm moving to Perth!


Go west, young man!  laugh (I think I might join you.)
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« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2008, 09:45:05 PM »

one of two "flying bishops"

Is a "flying bishop" akin to a flying nun?  Grin
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« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2008, 10:39:43 PM »

It doesnt matter, they were heretical even before they appointed females to their (Un)holy Orders. To bad the anglican archbishop of Canterbury prefers to remain in his heresy, when he already knows Orthodoxy is the Way of Salvatiion.
 You can make your points without uncharitably insulting others beliefs.
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« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2008, 10:52:10 PM »

It doesn't make any sense to me that there are women in the priesthood, yet they are somehow to be excluded from becoming Bishops.  Huh

I saw a post on another forum suggesting that the remaining Anglo-Catholics could simply close their eyes to "women priests" and go about their business.  They viewed it as a mistake, but one which might eventually be corrected.  Women in the episcopacy, on the other hand, raises questions for them about the continued validity of the Anglican episcopacy itself.

I imagine that there will be at least some Anglicans looking into Orthodoxy as a result of this, so perhaps some good will come of it in the end.
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« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2008, 11:31:52 PM »

It doesn't make any sense to me that there are women in the priesthood, yet they are somehow to be excluded from becoming Bishops.  Huh

It has to do with the office of Bishops to ordain deacons and priests as I understand it.

Ebor
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« Reply #23 on: July 09, 2008, 01:50:37 AM »

To bad the anglican archbishop of Canterbury prefers to remain in his heresy, when he already knows Orthodoxy is the Way of Salvatiion.
Really? Huh It would seem to me that the continuance of the Archbishop of Canterbury in his Anglican faith is evidence that he in fact does not know Orthodoxy to be the Way of Salvation.  So how can you judge him as having the conscious wherewithal to "prefer to remain in his heresy"?
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« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2008, 04:59:11 AM »

buzuxi and Peter, there are clear and serious constitutional problems with either the Archbishop of Canterbury or the heir to the British throne embracing Orthodoxy; the small matter of the Church of England being the established faith of the British Crown and State, and the reigning monarch being the Supreme Governor of the Church of England. (Blame Henry VIII for this, folks.)

Given a choice between Dr Rowan Williams or Prince Charles converting, I'd bet Charlie would get there first, even if he had to give up the right to the throne to do so (parallels with his great-uncle Edward VIII). I am no apologist for the British royal family, but at least Charles did have a modicum of Orthodoxy in his upbringing through his paternal Russian Orthodox grandmother, whom he was very close to, and, less directly, through his father, Prince Philip.
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« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2008, 05:06:17 AM »

LBK,

Prince Charles' Grandmother was Greek Orthodox; her aunt St Grand Duchess Elizabeth was Russian Orthodox.
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« Reply #26 on: July 09, 2008, 05:40:59 AM »

Riddikulus, I stand corrected.  Embarrassed Not enough coffee. But Orthodox is Orthodox, after all. That's more important.
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« Reply #27 on: July 09, 2008, 09:03:06 AM »

To bad the anglican archbishop of Canterbury prefers to remain in his heresy, when he already knows Orthodoxy is the Way of Salvatiion.

May I ask how you know that to be the case please?  On what basis do you think/believe this to be true?  Can you give any quotes from the Archbishop to support this claim?  If I were to make such a claim about an EO prelate it would be on me to provide some support. Otherwise such a statement would be a calumny against the person I was writing about.

Calumny- a false and malicious statement designed to injure the reputation of someone or something

Ebor  Sad

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« Reply #28 on: July 09, 2008, 09:13:26 AM »

the small matter of the Church of England being the established faith of the British Crown and State, and the reigning monarch being the Supreme Governor of the Church of England. (Blame Henry VIII for this, folks.)

There is a thread here on the forum with some discussion of the real history of the period and the reasons behind England's break with Rome, in which Henry VIII is a major figure, but there were others involved as well including the Emperor Charles V and the Pope of the time, Clement VII.

Ebor
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« Reply #29 on: July 09, 2008, 09:23:20 AM »

I believe that King Harry has enough to answer for without laying anything else at his feet - not that I really see any connection. Lord have mercy on his soul.

edited due to lack of clarity, due to need for sleep - still not sure that I'm making sense!  laugh
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« Reply #30 on: July 09, 2008, 11:54:27 AM »

LOL - thanks for the laugh.  I loved that show.  And I agree, she's the only female priest I've ever liked.

Aw shucks - I thought that was a real photo of a real bishopess!  Is this from one of those hilarious British sitcoms that keep popping up on our public TV stations?  Please let me know which show you're talking about so I can keep an eye out for it.  And sorry for the misunderstanding!  angel
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« Reply #31 on: July 09, 2008, 12:02:57 PM »

Aw shucks - I thought that was a real photo of a real bishopess!  Is this from one of those hilarious British sitcoms that keep popping up on our public TV stations?  Please let me know which show you're talking about so I can keep an eye out for it.  And sorry for the misunderstanding!  angel
It certainly is. It's a mid-nineties BBC show called The Vicar of Dibley starring Dawn French as the Vicar Geraldine. It ran for three seasons. The BBC's description is here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/vicarofdibley/. In the States, it's on some PBS stations, or you can get it on a region-1 DVD from Amazon. All three seasons are available in one package here: http://www.amazon.com/Vicar-Dibley-Immaculate-Collection/dp/B000SINSX0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1215619214&sr=1-1, or you can buy them separately.
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« Reply #32 on: July 09, 2008, 01:17:37 PM »

It certainly is. It's a mid-nineties BBC show called The Vicar of Dibley starring Dawn French as the Vicar Geraldine. It ran for three seasons. The BBC's description is here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/vicarofdibley/. In the States, it's on some PBS stations, or you can get it on a region-1 DVD from Amazon. All three seasons are available in one package here: http://www.amazon.com/Vicar-Dibley-Immaculate-Collection/dp/B000SINSX0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1215619214&sr=1-1, or you can buy them separately.

Or, you can get a little preview of the show at YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOx4ALcJk8E

Netflix also carries The Vicar..
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« Reply #33 on: July 09, 2008, 01:41:24 PM »


It makes me kinda sad actually.


My feelings as well.
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« Reply #34 on: July 09, 2008, 01:50:33 PM »

I read the article...Thanks!

I noticed that many of them have a real concern for "unity of the church".

Considering the facts of this groups founding I have no idea what they could mean by "unity".

For them it has been a mess of disfunction and chaos form the very beginning.

Some things get better by stopping them all together. They would do better to shut it down and all of them go back home. At lease this would allow a hope of 'real' unity.

They are entitled to do what they want to do of course. The craziest human on earth has the same entitlement.
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« Reply #35 on: July 09, 2008, 02:43:54 PM »

Considering the facts of this groups founding I have no idea what they could mean by "unity".

For them it has been a mess of disfunction and chaos form the very beginning.

May I ask what support you have for your opinion, please? What personal experience or knowledge you have of real live Anglicans and their beliefs, concerns and situations? There is real history and real information that can aid in understanding others.

Quote
Some things get better by stopping them all together. They would do better to shut it down and all of them go back home.

And some things get better by not giving up and quitting, may be.  May I also ask where *you* think "home" is for people who have been Anglican all or most of their lives, please? 

Quote
They are entitled to do what they want to do of course. The craziest human on earth has the same entitlement.

As do persons who are not "crazy".

Ebor

edited for spelling
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« Reply #36 on: July 09, 2008, 03:33:25 PM »

Ah, Ebor, well we knew you and Keble would feel motivated to respond here to this development within Angelicism. I do, however, view most of our remarks more in the vein (tacitly) of "Don't let this happen to us" rather than outright Anglican-bashing.
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« Reply #37 on: July 09, 2008, 03:56:19 PM »

Ah, Ebor, well we knew you and Keble would feel motivated to respond here to this development within Angelicism. I do, however, view most of our remarks more in the vein (tacitly) of "Don't let this happen to us" rather than outright Anglican-bashing.

One might indeed read a number of posts in that "vein".  However ones that specifically refer to persons such as the Archbishop of Canterbury with an accusation or referring to the Anglican Communion as a "mess" perhaps are not quite the same kind of corpuscle...  Smiley 

Ebor
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« Reply #38 on: July 09, 2008, 06:05:04 PM »

I read the article...Thanks!

I noticed that many of them have a real concern for "unity of the church".

Considering the facts of this groups founding I have no idea what they could mean by "unity".

For them it has been a mess of disfunction and chaos form the very beginning.

Some things get better by stopping them all together. They would do better to shut it down and all of them go back home. At lease this would allow a hope of 'real' unity.

They are entitled to do what they want to do of course. The craziest human on earth has the same entitlement.


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« Reply #39 on: July 09, 2008, 06:07:44 PM »

There is real history and real information that can aid in understanding others.


Heavens, Ebor, why let real history and real information get in the way!! Facts can be so distracting. Wink
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« Reply #40 on: July 09, 2008, 06:52:27 PM »

No, Barbara Harris was ordained Bishop in the US Episcopal Church in 1989, and other women have been ordained Bishops in her wake; however, the story today is that not just the U.S. Episcopal Church, but the entire Church of England worldwide, has voted in favor of women bishops.

In for a penny, in for a pound.  If you maintain communion with a single church that does ordains women, you are all the same, no matter how "conservative" you are.  My question: with someone like "bishop" Spong, women bishops are their line in the sand?

I'm not sure the male hierarchy is dogma, but I would have to see a better argument for priestesses than I have thereto seen.
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« Reply #41 on: July 09, 2008, 06:54:42 PM »

They've been threatening to leave the CoE for over a quarter century now and still insist on sticking around. I'm sure every sensible memeber of the CoE is thinking to themselves 'when are these nutcases going to make good on their promises and actually leave the rest of us alone?'

I agree.

yes, I think that's scary too.
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« Reply #42 on: July 09, 2008, 06:56:25 PM »

C of E bishop will lead Anglicans to Rome

Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 04:30 PM GMT [General]

The Bishop of Ebbsfleet, the Rt Rev Andrew Burnham, is to lead his fellow Anglo-Catholics from the Church of England into the Roman Catholic Church, the Catholic Herald will reveal this week.

Bishop Burnham, one of two "flying bishops" in the province of Canterbury, has made a statement asking Pope Benedict XVI and the English Catholic bishops for "magnanimous gestures" that will allow traditionalists to become Catholics en masse.

He is confident that this will happen, following talks in Rome with Cardinal Levada, head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, and Cardinal Kasper, the Vatican's head of ecumenism. He was accompanied on his visit by the Rt Rev Keith Newton, Bishop of Richborough, the other Canterbury "flying bishop", who is expected to follow his example.

Bishop Burnham hopes that Rome will offer special arrangements whereby former Anglicans can stay worshipping in parishes under the guidance of a Catholic bishop. Most of these parishes already use the Roman liturgy, but there may be provision for Anglican prayers if churches request it.

Anglican priests who are already married will not be barred from ordination as priests, though Bishop Burnham would not be able to continue in episcopal orders, as he is married and there is an absolute bar on married bishops in the Roman and Orthodox Churches.

In his statement, Bishop Burnham explains why he is rejecting the code of practice offered to traditionalists by the General Synod last night. "How could we trust a code of practice to deliver a workable ecclesiology if every suggestion we have made for our inclusion has been turned down flat?" he asks.

"How could we trust a code of practice when those who are offering it include those who have done most to undermine and seek to revoke the code of practice in force for these last 14 years? ...

"What we must humbly ask for now is for magnanimous gestures from our Catholic friends, especially from the Holy Father, who well understands our longing for unity, and from the hierarchy of England and Wales. Most of all we ask for ways that allow us to bring our folk with us."


http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/damian_thompson/blog/2008/07/08/c_of_e_bishop_will_lead_anglicans_to_rome

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I wonder how the meetings between these CofE clerics and Rome will relate to the continuing (and secret) meetings between the Traditional Anglican Communion (who have petitioned Rome to cross the Tiber) and the Holy See. I would guess some arrangement (pastoral provision for married priests, concessions to Anglican liturgical traditions) would include both groups.


Another missed opportunity for the Western Rite.
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« Reply #43 on: July 09, 2008, 06:58:08 PM »

I saw a post on another forum suggesting that the remaining Anglo-Catholics could simply close their eyes to "women priests" and go about their business.  They viewed it as a mistake, but one which might eventually be corrected.  Women in the episcopacy, on the other hand, raises questions for them about the continued validity of the Anglican episcopacy itself.

I imagine that there will be at least some Anglicans looking into Orthodoxy as a result of this, so perhaps some good will come of it in the end.

With all the nonsense that goes on in the Anglican spectrum (communion I think is too strong a word), women are the last straw?
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« Reply #44 on: July 09, 2008, 07:47:18 PM »

With all the nonsense that goes on in the Anglican spectrum (communion I think is too strong a word)
The Anglican Communion is what they call themselves, they are in Communion with each other, and that is what you will call them on this forum- for the same reason that we do not allow people to refer to Roman Catholics as "Papists" on this forum or Eastern and Oriental Rite Catholics as "Uniates".
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