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Author Topic: Computer Security...Is It Worth the Trouble?  (Read 2451 times) Average Rating: 0
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ytterbiumanalyst
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« on: June 20, 2008, 02:52:15 PM »

It was said in another thread:

Firefox 1 & 2 had to be run as Administrator under Vista due to Vista's security policies and the Firefox team not coding earlier versions of Firefox to work within Vista's parameters:

Firefox 2 and Vista Caveats

Am I the only one getting really tired of draconian security measures? Seems they only punish those of us who legitimately own software. It's not like MS is going under, either, if God forbid someone steals a copy of their precious OS. I'm all for intellectual property and all, but sheesh. There's been some software I have not bought specifically because of copy protection (most notably BioShock, and it looks like I'll have to do the same with Spore).
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« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2008, 03:10:33 PM »

Open source software is rapidly catching up to their closed source brethren.  Hopefully with time, it will expand to things such a games (well, better games), etc.

Vista's security measures are even more frustrating then those found in SELinux.  Perform a simple tasks and Vista acts as if it is under attack.  One of the database courses I am in had to create a fairly long booklet just to instruct student's using Vista, how to allow their computer to use ODBC and mySQL without everything being blocked.   Roll Eyes
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« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2008, 03:16:30 PM »

Businesses are adopting Vista very slowly especially in an era of economic downturns and the like.

Vista had a steeper learning curve than XP due to the latter OS having security issues stemming back to Win 98.  Once hackers in Eastern Europe figured out how to have a field day with XP, Bill Gates went back to the drawing board with Vista Security.  Meanwhile, Apple with its UNIX based OSX gained the upper hand with that OS being ported to iPhones, iPods, et al.

The LINUX world has reached critical mass with kernel upgrades coming to a halt due to the passage of DMCA which prevents open source companies from reverse engineering closed source products (like NTFS).  LINUX has been stuck on 2.6 Kernel for years with no 2.7 Development or 2.8 Production Kernels on the horizon. 
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« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2008, 03:17:47 PM »

Quote
Am I the only one getting really tired of draconian security measures?
I agree, and not just 'cause I'm your wife.   Grin

Seriously, though, I too get tired of all the layers of security.  Just last night as I was paying bills online, I had to go through a security question before I put in my password.  I realize h@X0rz (Wink) are getting craftier all the time and I'm ok with reasonable security, but I'm not sure piling password on top of password is going to cut it.  These security questions would be easy enough to guess if someone took enough time to research me anyway.  

Vista drives me nuts, though, that it asks "Are you sure you want to do that?"  
"Are you really sure?"  
"Really really sure?"
"Absotively posolutely sure?"
"On a scale of 0 to 5, how sure are you?"

GAAAAAAAH!
« Last Edit: June 20, 2008, 03:19:22 PM by EofK » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2008, 03:31:48 PM »

So does all of this mean, despite higher prices, that it may be time to save for a Mac next time?  I run XP, and I can't believe all of the crazy things I'm hearing about VISTA.  It just doesn't seem worth  it.  I've heard people say that Apple is really becoming more and more compatible  with PC stuff all the time.  Is this true?  Like, if I have a Microsoft Word document or a WordPerfect document, can I  transfer them easily between the two  different systems?  What do you guys think of all this?
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« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2008, 03:39:27 PM »

Businesses are adopting Vista very slowly especially in an era of economic downturns and the like.
Businesses are always very slow though.  You can still find some very conservative companies running Win2K or NT4.0.  Most major companies will probably be waiting to see what Windows 7 will have in store.

Quote
The LINUX world has reached critical mass with kernel upgrades coming to a halt due to the passage of DMCA which prevents open source companies from reverse engineering closed source products (like NTFS).  LINUX has been stuck on 2.6 Kernel for years with no 2.7 Development or 2.8 Production Kernels on the horizon. 
That is not completely true.  All the little updates to the 2.6 kernel (I think we are up to 2.6.25.7 now) have helped to make Linux more viable as a laptop OS, especially when it comes to wireless internet and bluetooth.  But you are right, DMCA (WIPO) has really hurt the open source market, and 2.6 has been around since 2003/2004 I think.  The EU has been talking a lot about Open Source lately, but I am not sure how the EUCD is going to make some of their ideas plausible.  And with NTFS, not a big deal for me, I like JFS, plus it seems this "WinFS" will be replacing it.
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« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2008, 03:42:44 PM »

Some of the flavors of Linux available today are (IMO) much less of a headache to use than Vista.  It's gotten to the point where Windows has fallen to third place on my list of recommendations to friends and family.  And BSD is catching up too  Wink
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« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2008, 03:45:53 PM »

So does all of this mean, despite higher prices, that it may be time to save for a Mac next time?  I run XP, and I can't believe all of the crazy things I'm hearing about VISTA.  It just doesn't seem worth  it.  I've heard people say that Apple is really becoming more and more compatible  with PC stuff all the time.  Is this true?  Like, if I have a Microsoft Word document or a WordPerfect document, can I  transfer them easily between the two  different systems?  What do you guys think of all this?

Well, the thing with Macs now is they are just PCs with a Unix-4-tots "hyrbid-kernel" OS.   laugh  So you won't run into any hardware issues, just have to use cross-platform or Mac software.  About Word docs, you could use OpenOffice or Microsoft Office: mac for it.  Software for Macs is definitely getting better and more is compatable with them.  So I doubt you would run into any issues on a Mac unless you need to use a very obscure software, and even then, there is probably an open-source alternative.
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« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2008, 03:46:10 PM »

Open source software is rapidly catching up to their closed source brethren.  Hopefully with time, it will expand to things such a games (well, better games), etc.
I have heard of a game called Sins of a Solar Empire which is distributed online and which contains no security measures of any kind. It could be very easily hacked--yet it continues to sell. Oblivion sold madly when it was released without any security measures. I'd like to pay some people to make a really good game, as long as the price isn't too high ($40-$50 max) and as long as they quit treating me like I'm a threat.

Both BioShock and Spore have a limited number of times they can be loaded onto a computer. So if my computer crashes or I get a new hard drive, or I run out of space and want to delete some programs to make room, I'm going to have to buy this program, which I already own, all over again. I'm not talking about giving it out to the whole neighborhood. And I'm not running a network; I have one computer. The program, which I own, will be on my computer, which I own, and no one else's, because I don't own those. And yet I am punished.

So I didn't buy BioShock, and unfortunately for EA, I won't buy Spore either if they continue with these shenanigans. I hate to do so, because I have been a fan of Will Wright ever since I was old enough to type, and I love the concept of his new game. I played SimEarth for hours on end (I believe I and Will Wright's mother were the only ones who did), and Spore is its spiritual successor. Yet even I (and possibly Wright's mum) will give this one a pass unless they give me a way to play the game without treating me like a felon.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2008, 03:54:03 PM by ytterbiumanalyst » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2008, 03:51:21 PM »

Well, the thing with Macs now is they are just PCs with a Unix-4-tots "hyrbid-kernel" OS.   laugh  So you won't run into any hardware issues, just have to use cross-platform or Mac software.  About Word docs, you could use OpenOffice or Microsoft Office: mac for it.  Software for Macs is definitely getting better and more is compatable with them.  So I doubt you would run into any issues on a Mac unless you need to use a very obscure software, and even then, there is probably an open-source alternative.

So do you think I should be saving for a Mac?
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« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2008, 03:51:36 PM »

Some of the flavors of Linux available today are (IMO) much less of a headache to use than Vista.  It's gotten to the point where Windows has fallen to third place on my list of recommendations to friends and family.  And BSD is catching up too  Wink

I'm so glad someone mentioned BSD!   Grin  In terms of boot speed, I haven't found anything that can beat FreeBSD.  And PC-BSD is really easy to setup for those a little unsure of themselves.

I have to agree that certain Linux distros now are less of a headache compared to Vista, especially *buntu, PCLinuxOS, SUSE, SimplyMEPIS and Sabayon (except when it comes time to update).  Though, Arch is still my favourite.
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« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2008, 03:56:19 PM »

I have heard of a game called Sins of a Solar Empire which is distributed online and which contains no security measures of any kind. It could be very easily hacked--yet it continues to sell. Oblivion sold madly when it was released without any security measures. I'd like to pay some people to make a really good game, as long as the price isn't too high ($40-$50 max) and as long as they quit treating me like I'm a threat.

Both BioShock and Spore have a limited number of times they can be loaded onto a computer. So if my computer crashes or I get a new hard drive, or I run out of space and want to delete some programs to make room, I'm going to have to buy this program, which I already own, all over again. I'm not talking about giving it out to the whole neighborhood. And I'm not running a network; I have one computer. The program, which I own, will be on my computer, which I own, and no one else's, because I don't own those. And yet I am punished.

So I didn't buy BioShock, and unfortunately for EA, I won't buy Spore either if they continue with these shenanigans. I hate to do so, because I have been a fan of Will Wright ever since I was old enough to type, and I love the concept of his new game. I played SimEarth for hours on end (I believe I and Will Wright's mother were the only ones who did), and Spore is its spiritual successor. Yet even I (and possibly Wright's mum) will give this one a pass unless they give me a way to play the game without treating me like a felon.

*shudders*  EA is the absolute worst with this.

So do you think I should be saving for a Mac?

Depends, what do you want to do on it?  Are you big into gaming?  If you are, then you will run into issues with various games, but since they are on an Intel platform, you could always dual-boot a small windows partition when you want to game.  If you will mostly be using it for surfing, emailing, music, movies, etc, it would be fine.  Try out the MacOS if you can, some love it, some hate it.
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« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2008, 10:12:23 AM »

I've had the most success using Ubuntu and Windows 2000 Pro in a dual boot sequence. I have a large drive which has all of the documents, files, games, etc. on it and then a smaller drive with 3 partitions, 1 for windows boot, 1 for linux boot and one as a multi-purpose storage drive under linux. I've found that I can log into windows when I want to play games and still have all the connectivity and then log into linux for everything else. The only thing I don't like about Ubuntu is that you can't access most admin stuff because root is initially locked out and has to be accessed with that damn sudo command. Other than that, I'd rather have a PC than a mac because I like to be able to customize hardware and there aren't all that many options for Mac customization.

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« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2008, 06:39:54 PM »

Depends, what do you want to do on it?  Are you big into gaming?  If you are, then you will run into issues with various games, but since they are on an Intel platform, you could always dual-boot a small windows partition when you want to game.  If you will mostly be using it for surfing, emailing, music, movies, etc, it would be fine.  Try out the MacOS if you can, some love it, some hate it.

I'm not into much gaming.  I'd be using it mostly for the applications you mention plus word processing, creating presentations etc.  Why would one hate the MacOS?  What do you think of it?  Do you think it's worth the extra money to buy a Mac if you like how the OS works?  Thanks.  You're providing me with food for thought.  Smiley
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« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2008, 06:57:07 PM »

I'm not into much gaming.  I'd be using it mostly for the applications you mention plus word processing, creating presentations etc. 

It would be more than fine for you then.

Quote
Why would one hate the MacOS?

Some find the usability of the OS has suffered in recent years.  Making things so user-friendly, that it ends up getting in the way.  Others hate the Dock feature, some hate the new Finder (Windows Explorer of Mac) programme.  Then there are the people who just hate the "image".   Tongue

Quote
What do you think of it?

Personally, I have no need for it.  The box is all PC parts and well, I'd just put a Linux distro on it.  It is a bit of a pain at time, but I am cheap, Linux is free and fun to tinker with.

Quote
Do you think it's worth the extra money to buy a Mac if you like how the OS works?  Thanks.  You're providing me with food for thought.  Smiley

If you like how it works and have the money, I think it would be worth it.
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« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2008, 10:32:43 PM »

Most people I know who have switched from Windows to Mac have been happy with the change.  The initial cost of a Mac is higher, but most Mac users would reply that the smug sense of well-being is worth it  Wink
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« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2008, 11:50:43 PM »

Most people I know who have switched from Windows to Mac have been happy with the change.  The initial cost of a Mac is higher, but most Mac users would reply that the smug sense of well-being is worth it  Wink

It is so funny to see how many people use Macs on campus... until you venture into the Computer Science and Engineering areas.   laugh

http://cad-comic.com/comics/20060513.jpg (I would have used the image tag, but there is some language.)
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