Topic: More Vatican-Phanar Shenanigans

[Heracleides]

First Mass of Pauline Year to be Ecumenical

Vatican City, Jun 24, 2008 / 10:40 am (CNA).- The Office of Liturgical Celebrations of the Supreme Pontiff announced that on June 29, the Solemnity of the Holy Apostles Peter and Paul, Pope Benedict XVI will celebrate the Eucharist at 9:30 a.m. in the Vatican Basilica.  The Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I is also scheduled to participate in the ceremony.

Bartholomew I and the Holy Father will deliver the homily, recite the profession of faith and impart the final blessing. The Pontiff will concelebrate with the new Catholic metropolitan archbishops, upon whom he will impose the pallium.


Complete article here: http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=13034

[Fr. George]

*Sigh*  Here we go again.  I think it's definitely a mistake for him to do this.

However, I also dread this discussion.  Here's a summary of how it usually goes:

- He shouldn't be praying with them!
- He's entering into heresy and/or schism.
- Ecumenism stinks!
- The Pope is evil.
- The news source is not objective and is probably misreporting something.
- It's a Vatican plot to divide us.
- Let's love one another.
- What's love got to do with it?

(ok, maybe that last one isn't usual)

[Bogoliubtsy]

*Sigh*  Here we go again.  I think it's definitely a mistake for him to do this.

However, I also dread this discussion.  Here's a summary of how it usually goes:

- He shouldn't be praying with them!
- He's entering into heresy and/or schism.
- Ecumenism stinks!
- The Pope is evil.
- The news source is not objective and is probably misreporting something.
- It's a Vatican plot to divide us.
- Let's love one another.
- What's love got to do with it?

(ok, maybe that last one isn't usual)

Ha ha. Thanks for heading that off.

[SolEX01]

- What's love got to do with it?
(ok, maybe that last one isn't usual)

Tina Turner fan?   

[SouthSerb99]

*Sigh*  Here we go again.  I think it's definitely a mistake for him to do this.

However, I also dread this discussion.  Here's a summary of how it usually goes:

- He shouldn't be praying with them!                                                      -        Check
- He's entering into heresy and/or schism.                                               -        Not so sure
- Ecumenism stinks!                                                                             -       Check
- The Pope is evil.                                                                               -       Serbian Check
- The news source is not objective and is probably misreporting something.   -       Not so sure
- It's a Vatican plot to divide us.                                                            -      Check
- Let's love one another.                                                                      -       Not so sure
- What's love got to do with it?                                                             -       Not so sure

[Heracleides]

*Sigh*  Here we go again.  I think it's definitely a mistake for him to do this.

However, I also dread this discussion.  Here's a summary of how it usually goes:

- He shouldn't be praying with them!
- He's entering into heresy and/or schism.
- Ecumenism stinks!
- The Pope is evil.
- The news source is not objective and is probably misreporting something.
- It's a Vatican plot to divide us.
- Let's love one another.
- What's love got to do with it?

(ok, maybe that last one isn't usual)

There’s one glaring omission to your list – that being Ozgeorge’s leading of the kumbyah choir closing out the thread. 
.

[Heracleides]

On a more serious note...

*Sigh*  Here we go again.  I think it's definitely a mistake for him to do this.

However, I also dread this discussion.  Here's a summary of how it usually goes:

- He shouldn't be praying with them!
-- Quite obviously.

- He's entering into heresy and/or schism.
-- He has flirted with it for some time.

- Ecumenism stinks!
-- Is that what this is?  I thought it was simply the two playing 'footsie' with one another.

- The Pope is evil.
--  More like misguided.

- The news source is not objective and is probably misreporting something.
-- Not sure.  They are obviously spinning the story a bit.  Witness their use of the word "ceremony" to describe their Eucharist - last I knew, even the RC church viewed the celebration of their Mass to be more than a simple ceremony.

- It's a Vatican plot to divide us.
-- And succeeding quite well I might add.

- Let's love one another.
-- By "participating" in worship with an Arch-Heretic (I hear the choir warming up).
                               
- What's love got to do with it?
--  Indeed. Steadfastness in upholding the Faith should never be viewed as the ultimate in love.

[recent convert]

These kind of articles keep popping up with a spin from an RC news service like the "dual unity" rumor previously covered. How much reliability is there to  it?

[Αριστοκλής]

There’s one glaring omission to your list – that being Ozgeorge’s leading of the kumbyah choir closing out the thread. 
.

Now THAT is funny...

[lubeltri]

These kind of articles keep popping up with a spin from an RC news service like the "dual unity" rumor previously covered. How much reliability is there to  it?

Oh, don't you worry. It's coming.

The Creed will be without the filioque.

It's the season for Vatican-Phanar shenanigans! Yay!  For every wrinkled nose, there are others who will grow in charity because of this display of Christian brotherhood.

I'll be tuned in when it happens. 

[BrotherAidan]

Southserb
I saw you are viewing this thread
How are you?

[Jakub]

Ozgeorge’s leading of the kumbyah choir definite YouTube material, can't wait

[SouthSerb99]

Southserb
I saw you are viewing this thread
How are you?

Recovering from the Pens loss! (I can't bring myself to print the name of that other team).  Other than that... insanely busy at work... and you?

[Heracleides]

Where is another St. Mark of Ephesus when one is sorely needed?

"BRIGHTON -- On June 29 Cardinal Seán P. O’Malley and the Catholics of the Archdiocese of Boston will share the Feast of Sts. Peter and Paul with a delegation from the Greek Orthodox Diocese of Boston and all New England...

...Methodios, Metropolitan of the Greek Orthodox Diocese of Boston and All New England, will lead the delegation to [Roman Catholic] festal vespers on June 29. And Nov. 29, at the Feast of St. Andrew, Cardinal O’Malley will reciprocate by leading a group of Catholics to the Orthodox’ celebration of the feast of St. Andrew."

Bravo GOA.  Like father, like son. 


Complete article here: http://www.thebostonpilot.com/article.asp?ID=6444

[Mickey]

Where is another St. Mark of Ephesus when one is sorely needed?

"BRIGHTON -- On June 29 Cardinal Seán P. O’Malley and the Catholics of the Archdiocese of Boston will share the Feast of Sts. Peter and Paul with a delegation from the Greek Orthodox Diocese of Boston and all New England...

...Methodios, Metropolitan of the Greek Orthodox Diocese of Boston and All New England, will lead the delegation to [Roman Catholic] festal vespers on June 29. And Nov. 29, at the Feast of St. Andrew, Cardinal O’Malley will reciprocate by leading a group of Catholics to the Orthodox’ celebration of the feast of St. Andrew."

Bravo GOA.  Like father, like son. 


Complete article here: http://www.thebostonpilot.com/article.asp?ID=6444

St Mark of Ephesus pray for us.

[Myrrh23]

- He shouldn't be praying with them!

Jesus' Apostles all thought he shouldn't have been talking to non-Jews, or letting children hang out with him because they're a bother. I don't see why praying with "The Enemy" is such a big deal, since we're praying to the same Father. And it's not like the Catholics have as much understanding of the Christian God as, say, Hindus or tribal Shamanists.

Ozgeorge’s leading of the kumbyah choir definite YouTube material, can't wait

Maybe we can somehow mix in LOLCatz to that? How about with a cross-eyed Siamese? Just kidding, OzGeorge! I love ya!

[PeterTheAleut]

Jesus' Apostles all thought he shouldn't have been talking to non-Jews, or letting children hang out with him because they're a bother. I don't see why praying with "The Enemy" is such a big deal, since we're praying to the same Father. And it's not like the Catholics have as much understanding of the Christian God as, say, Hindus or tribal Shamanists.

But there's a BIG difference between merely talking with those outside the [Orthodox] Church (actively encouraged) and actually praying with them liturgically (forbidden by the canons).  And how does Jesus letting children hang out with Him connect to this apparent move toward interfaith liturgical prayer?  I just don't see the connection.

[88Devin12]

What is the policy supposed to be? I thought the idea was to have the Roman Catholics change their heterodox beliefs towards Orthodox beliefs completely. Including rejecting the filioque, Papal infallibility, Papal supremacy etc...

Wouldn't it also require that the Roman Catholic Church would have to reject the past Popes and Saints up to the last Pope recognized by Orthodox?

Has the EP made it clear to the Pope that NO union will occur without the RCC's full rejection of heterodox beliefs?

[Αριστοκλής]

What is the policy supposed to be? I thought the idea was to have the Roman Catholics change their heterodox beliefs towards Orthodox beliefs completely. Including rejecting the filioque, Papal infallibility, Papal supremacy etc...

That seems accurate.

Wouldn't it also require that the Roman Catholic Church would have to reject the past Popes and Saints up to the last Pope recognized by Orthodox?

Issues not addressed yet as far as I know.

Has the EP made it clear to the Pope that NO union will occur without the RCC's full rejection of heterodox beliefs?

That's been evident for about 600 years.

[Nigula Qian Zishi]

Why not? The MP just defrocked a bishop for voicing his objection to the heresy of Ecumenism. But this is what the Church Fathers said about the end times, that there would be a one world religion which would unite with a one world government under the watch of the Anti-Christ.

[PeterTheAleut]

Why not? The MP just defrocked a bishop for voicing his objection to the heresy of Ecumenism. But this is what the Church Fathers said about the end times, that there would be a one world religion which would unite with a one world government under the watch of the Anti-Christ.

Yes, we're familiar with this blog.  It's the blog of a Reader Joseph Suaiden.  If you want to know more about Suaiden, just check out his OCnet profile, for he posted here quite frequently until a couple of weeks ago.

[88Devin12]

"But this is what the Church Fathers said about the end times, that there would be a one world religion which would unite with a one world government under the watch of the Anti-Christ."

Umm... I thought that is what Protestant "Left Behind" enthusaists say...

"be a one world religion"
Wouldn't this imply that Orthodox jurisdictions would join the "one world religion" since you are referencing the EP? What ever happened to the fact that the gates of hell will NEVER prevail against the church?

[PeterTheAleut]

Why not? The MP just defrocked a bishop for voicing his objection to the heresy of Ecumenism.

I also need to mention that I find the way you've spun this piece of news quite misleading and inflammatory.

From the Russian News and Information Agency

Controversial bishop defrocked in Russia's Far East

MOSCOW, June 27 (RIA Novosti) - The Russian Orthodox Church degraded from priesthood on Friday Bishop Diomid of Anadyr and Chukotka for criticizing the hierarchy and provoking a schism.
The Church's eparchial council also banned some clerics in the Far Eastern diocese from holding services.

"We have long tolerated every accusation and attack. His statements tempted people," Patriarch Alexy II of Moscow and All Russia said.

Diomid, 47, has headed the Chukotka diocese since it was established in 2000.

In his letters, published in the Novye Izvestia newspaper, Diomid described the evolving ecumenism as "heretical teachings." He also criticized the Russian Orthodox Church for "implicitly approving instead of denouncing the incumbent government's anti-national policies" and called the church's consent to democracy a mistake.

He argued that monarchy was the only system of government blessed by God.

In an online publication, Diomid accused the Russian Orthodox Church and the Moscow Patriarchate of "deviating from the purity of Orthodox teachings."

The same publication slammed the Group of Eight major industrialized nations as a body of global Masonry, designed to pave the way for the arrival of a single global leader, or antichrist, and warned against any spiritual cooperation with the "dangerous" group.

Diomid also demanded abolishment of the foreign church relations department at the Moscow Patriarchate, said the Church should refuse to communicate with people of other religions, and called for an end to tax payer identification numbers, modern passports and cell phones.

In a resolution, a working group at the eparchial council of the Russian Orthodox Church said there was no reason to consider anti-national the government supported by the bulk of people. It added that the Orthodox Church has always expressed its concerns about negative social phenomena, such as social stratification, demographic problems and the public promotion of immoral behavior.

The resolution said Diomid's calls for rejecting communication with other denominations and religions were a manifestation of sectarian ideology and schism.

However, the council did offer Diomid the chance to repent, saying the decision to degrade him could then be suspended.

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080627/112413325.html


If the above article is accurate, Bp. Diomid was deposed for being much more of a controversial figure than to simply call ecumenism a heresy.

[Nigula Qian Zishi]

"But this is what the Church Fathers said about the end times, that there would be a one world religion which would unite with a one world government under the watch of the Anti-Christ."

Umm... I thought that is what Protestant "Left Behind" enthusaists say...

"be a one world religion"
Wouldn't this imply that Orthodox jurisdictions would join the "one world religion" since you are referencing the EP? What ever happened to the fact that the gates of hell will NEVER prevail against the church?

The Patriarchate of Rome fell and so can other Patriarchates. Read the Church Fathers and see that One World Religion and Government is something, along with the Heresy of Ecumenism, that was long fortold for the End Times.

[Nigula Qian Zishi]

Yes, we're familiar with this blog.  It's the blog of a Reader Joseph Suaiden.  If you want to know more about Suaiden, just check out his OCnet profile, for he posted here quite frequently until a couple of weeks ago.

I know Joseph and have for many years, I do not need to look over how he was (mis?)treated during his short stay here.

[88Devin12]

Where is your proof? I've never heard any quotes from the Church Fathers about those subjects, only from men like Tim Lahaye, and Ed Hindson.

Rome fell 1000 years ago... And I seriously doubt many more Patriarchates will fall, as there will be a church for Christ to come back to... Which I doubt will be just one Patriarchate...

Nigula, are you amillinialist? Do you ascribe to the Protestant ideas about eschatology?

And BTW, we need to strive for UNITY with other Christian churches... Schism is wrong... However I believe there is a difference between unity w/o conditions for the schismatics/heterodox and unity with the renouncement of doctrines by the heterodox.

Are you opposed to ANY unity with the Roman Catholics or Protestant Churches?

Also, your name says you are "Orthodox Christian" But could you be more specific?

[SolEX01]

The Patriarchate of Rome fell and so can other Patriarchates. Read the Church Fathers and see that One World Religion and Government is something, along with the Heresy of Ecumenism, that was long fortold for the End Times.

Are you hoping that both Rome and Constantinople fall on June 29, 2008 to be replaced by that One World Religion your Jurisdictions apparently dread?

[Myrrh23]

And how does Jesus letting children hang out with Him connect to this apparent move toward interfaith liturgical prayer?

I was using it in the context of disapproval. As long as the prayers have nothing to do with the Pope or the later Saints, could you explain why interfaith liturgical prayer is shied away from?

[PeterTheAleut]

I was using it in the context of disapproval. As long as the prayers have nothing to do with the Pope or the later Saints, could you explain why interfaith liturgical prayer is shied away from?

For one, to pray liturgically with the non-Orthodox is to acknowledge that their faiths are equal to ours in truthfulness and that their sacraments are grace-filled.  We know where the fullness of truth resides, and we know where the sacraments are filled with God's sanctifying grace, and that is the Orthodox Church.  Outside of our Church, we just don't know, so why do we want to validate fully that which we do not know to be true?  Let us bear witness to what Truth we do know and let God reveal to us what we don't know, but, in the meantime, let us not show by our actions that the heresies of the heterodox are somehow faithful to truth or, at the least, inconsequential.