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Author Topic: A visit from some JW's!  (Read 7392 times) Average Rating: 0
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SouthSerb99
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« on: June 24, 2008, 08:36:36 AM »

My wife had in interesting encounter with some JW's a few days ago and I'm still contemplating my course of action, so I'm writing here for some suggestions.

My wife is a stay at home mom, taking care of our two young children (3 & 1) which keep her quite busy.  The other day, a car pulls into our driveway (while I'm at work) and 4 adults exit the (two males two females).  She seems them from our family room and is initially a bit uneasy to see 4 people she does not know approach the door.  At that moment our telephone rings and it my wife's cousin.  She tells her cousin to "hold on" while she answers the door.

As expected, the kids take the opportunity to go buck wild around the house while wifey is distracted.  She answers the door and the two women are up front (I swear these JW's are like tactical attack squads - lol).

She opens the doors to which one lady says "Are you Serbian"?  Looking surprised my wife says "yes".  The lady responds (in Serbian), oh, so am I and I've been going around meeting Serbian, Croatian and Macedonian families looking to talk to them about God.  My wife (rather naively) hasn't figured out they are JW's and continues to listen to their garble.  (What's interesting about how my house is set up is that you can seem a very prominent Icon of St. Nicholas from the front door, so I'm sure they saw it).

The lady proceeds to hand my wife some "literature" written in Serbian Cyrillic which I presume to be the JW gospel, or some derivative thereof.  Again, because it was written in Cyrillic, my wife had assumed it was some worthwhile piece of literature and kept it until I got home (at which point I let my kids "play" with it). 

In any event, because my wife was consumed with the kids and the phone the lady basically said, "we'll be back soon to discuss things".  So, my question is what do I do?  Before you answer, consider this...

a)  This was not a random JW "walk up".  They DROVE to our house and our house ONLY.  They are obviously Serbian Orthodox converts that are trying to locate other Serbs (especially new immigrants) and target them for converstion.

b)  They were rather forward and pushy and assumed they could just come back.

c)  They came with a virtual army (4 adults in total).  My wife felt uneasy.

So, I thought about things I could possibly do and I am open to suggestions.  Here are some of my thoughts:

1.  Politely tell them we are OC, always have been, always will be and ask them never to come back.

2.  Ask them to wait until I get home and invite them in and work on converting them (in order to do this I would have to really hit the books on JW's as my knowledge is almost zero).

3.  Have my wife politely ask for all their names (first and last), then tell them her husband is a lawyer who will get a restraining order against them if they ever try to come to my house again (not that I would - but sometimes it is fun to just scare people - LOL)

4.  Go buy a pair of tighty whities, put them on (and nothing else) then chase them off my property chanting in "made up tongue", so that they think I'm possessed.*

Thoughts???

I got to tell you, in all honesty I am really disturbed that a group of Serbs are "hunting" other Serbs for conversion.  I'd be lying if I told you I wasn't put off by the whole thing.  At the very least, I would like to call them traitors against their people and their Church.























*Not being serious.
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« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2008, 09:25:45 AM »

I am not Serbian, but  I do know that the JWs are  a rehash of many of the very heresies condemned in the early  Ecumenical Councils of the Church repackaged for today's world. Most JWs do not listen to anything you say but are only focussed on getting their message out.  My advice is to never let them in the front door, give them some Orthodox Material to read and be sure to throw their material out---it is poorly written, presents lies and inaccuracies, and frequently poor translations of scriptures that deliberately change the wording to give their view but do not  translate the word accurately (their New World Translation of the Greek Bible is laughable to anyone who knows Greek).  The best basic rule with them is never let them in the house---PERIOD they will eventually, in a year or two, get the message and stop coming. Wink

Thomas
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« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2008, 09:33:53 AM »

The problem that I've found with JWs is as Thomas says, they have their own bible and their own basis that they are going to "attack" from. Its impossible to argue religion when you do not have a common frame of reference to a primary source. I've gotten a few of them upset by asking them why they don't believe in the Holy Spirit. To which they reply, "Oh, well, he's not in our bible"... Sure......It can be fun to mess with them for a while, but I would just leave some orthodox material outside by the door and not answer.  police

-Nick
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« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2008, 10:20:18 AM »

I've always been fond of option 4 which can take a wide variety of forms.  I used to live around the corner from a Kingdom Hall (that's what JWs call their worship houses) and we'd get visits twice a month...until I answered the door wearing only a pair of dirty cargo shorts with a cigarette in one hand and a beer in the other (and it was 10 am to boot!) and told them that my wife (I wasn't married then) did all the talking as I was just her housemaid and love slave.

They never came back.
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« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2008, 11:08:19 AM »

I've always been fond of option 4 which can take a wide variety of forms.  I used to live around the corner from a Kingdom Hall (that's what JWs call their worship houses) and we'd get visits twice a month...until I answered the door wearing only a pair of dirty cargo shorts with a cigarette in one hand and a beer in the other (and it was 10 am to boot!) and told them that my wife (I wasn't married then) did all the talking as I was just her housemaid and love slave.

They never came back.

Thats hilarious
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« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2008, 11:17:18 AM »

I've always been fond of option 4 which can take a wide variety of forms.  I used to live around the corner from a Kingdom Hall (that's what JWs call their worship houses) and we'd get visits twice a month...until I answered the door wearing only a pair of dirty cargo shorts with a cigarette in one hand and a beer in the other (and it was 10 am to boot!) and told them that my wife (I wasn't married then) did all the talking as I was just her housemaid and love slave.

They never came back.

 Cheesy

I'll keep that in mind. My sister's boyfriend's mother is a JW. The minute she heard from my mother about what a "devout Catholic" I was, her eyes lit up. For the sake of peace, I'm trying to be very diplomatic, but my patience is wearing thin.
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« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2008, 11:21:23 AM »

I saw a great cartoon in this regard. A guy with big beard and head band stands at the entrance into the cave, and two JWs stand in front of him, offering their free Bible studies. The caption says, "and you thought they would never find bin Laden...:  Grin
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« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2008, 11:29:04 AM »

Hmmm.... maybe option four should be put back on the table!
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« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2008, 11:39:28 AM »

The best basic rule with them is never let them in the house---PERIOD they will eventually, in a year or two, get the message and stop coming. Wink

That doesn't stop them from coming by because once a former Orthodox apostate learns where a potential convert lives, they'll come back - maybe a few times a year.  Greek JW's have been coming by since I was a child and we're talking 25+ years.  Recently, they leave literature and do not knock.  My cousin's Orthodox Godmother has friends and relatives who are JW's.
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« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2008, 11:43:24 AM »

I got to tell you, in all honesty I am really disturbed that a group of Serbs are "hunting" other Serbs for conversion.  I'd be lying if I told you I wasn't put off by the whole thing.  At the very least, I would like to call them traitors against their people and their Church.

I like the term Apostate.  Try asking them why they became JW's.  The Greek ones usually say that they don't want to financially support the Church of Greece or the GOA.  Or better yet, tell them that JW's and Islam are basically repackaged forms of Arianism and no honest Serb would practice the same religion as a Muslim....
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« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2008, 01:47:56 PM »

My great uncle told me he flies the American flag and because of that they won't visit his house; but many others have said this doesn't work. Huh
A "No Trespassing or Soliciting" sign might work.
Or you could try this....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93E96U5BLZ0
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« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2008, 02:15:20 PM »

I am not Serbian, but  I do know that the JWs are  a rehash of many of the very heresies condemned in the early  Ecumenical Councils of the Church repackaged for today's world. Most JWs do not listen to anything you say but are only focussed on getting their message out.  My advice is to never let them in the front door, give them some Orthodox Material to read and be sure to throw their material out---it is poorly written, presents lies and inaccuracies, and frequently poor translations of scriptures that deliberately change the wording to give their view but do not  translate the word accurately (their New World Translation of the Greek Bible is laughable to anyone who knows Greek).  The best basic rule with them is never let them in the house---PERIOD they will eventually, in a year or two, get the message and stop coming. Wink

Thomas

What? I would LOVE for them to come, but they never do! Grrrrr, maybe they know to watch out for me. haha
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« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2008, 02:35:21 PM »

Get a rottweiler and let him loose in the front yard. Grin Just kidding.
They are pretty harmless and often don't even know why they converted themselves. Your wifes best bet is to act nicely and just take the literature. After they leave just tell her to throw it out. You are just shell shocked because they are your own people. With your debating ability, I'm sure you would be able to scare them off pretty quickly if you were home. Just keep in mind that they are misguided. They are people and deserve respect.
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« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2008, 02:46:48 PM »

Tell them we are to the love the Lord our God and our neighbor as ourselves and, for those of us who can, blood donation is an example of following our Lord. They cannot seem to figure something so basic out in their confusion (or perhaps hypocrisy).  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah's_Witnesses_and_blood_transfusions   
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« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2008, 03:02:56 PM »

I always like showing them how their own Bible proclaims the divinity of Christ:

Quote from: New World Translation Bible
Rev. 1:8: “I am the Al´pha and the O·me´ga,” says Jehovah God, “the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty.”


So, all right, Jehovah God calls himself "the Alpha and the Omega."  Keep that handy.

Quote from: New World Translation Bible
9 I John, YOUR brother and a sharer with YOU in the tribulation and kingdom and endurance in company with Jesus, came to be in the isle that is called Pat´mos for speaking about God and bearing witness to Jesus.

10 By inspiration I came to be in the Lord’s day, and I heard behind me a strong voice like that of a trumpet,

11 saying: “What you see write in a scroll and send it to the seven congregations, in Eph´e·sus and in Smyr´na and in Per´ga·mum and in Thy·a·ti´ra and in Sar´dis and in Philadelphia and in La·o·di·ce´a.”

12 And I turned to see the voice that was speaking with me, and, having turned, I saw seven golden lampstands,

13 and in the midst of the lampstands someone like a son of man, clothed with a garment that reached down to the feet, and girded at the breasts with a golden girdle.

14 Moreover, his head and his hair were white as white wool, as snow, and his eyes as a fiery flame;

15 and his feet were like fine copper when glowing in a furnace; and his voice was as the sound of many waters.

16 And he had in his right hand seven stars, and out of his mouth a sharp, long two-edged sword was protruding, and his countenance was as the sun when it shines in its power.

17 And when I saw him, I fell as dead at his feet.

And he laid his right hand upon me and said: “Do not be fearful. I am the First and the Last,

18 and the living one; and I became dead, but, look! I am living forever and ever, and I have the keys of death and of Ha´des.

So now we obviously have Jesus, the Son of Man who died and lives forever, who has the keys of death and Hades, calling Himself "the First and the Last."  Not exactly the same title as "Alpha and Omega," not word for word, anyway, so let's go from the beginning of the Apocalypse into the final chapter:

Quote from: New World Translation Bible
Rev. 22:13: "I am the Al´pha and the O·me´ga, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

Now, that verse is in a paragraph that JWs say is Jehovah God speaking, though the text gives no clue that that's happening, and even though the passage is surrounded by two things that are clearly spoken by Jesus.  Nevertheless, they have a statement here that even they say is attributed to Jehovah God which equates the One Who Is Alpha and Omega with the One Who Is the First and the Last.

Christ is divine, and not even the JW Bible denies it.  Try it on them sometime, though as Thomas states, do it at your doorway; they don't need to come in and sit down to have this quickly pointed out to them.
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« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2008, 03:20:35 PM »

JW's don't believe Jesus rose from the dead....

Quote
And he laid his right hand upon me and said: “Do not be fearful. I am the First and the Last,

18 and the living one; and I became dead, but, look! I am living forever and ever, and I have the keys of death and of Ha´des.

From JW's point of view, Jehovah God must have been dead at some point and somehow resurrected himself from the dead (which could have occurred in 1914 when the JW's were Established).  Resurrection is only reserved for Jehovah God (who has the keys of death and Hades) and no one else according to JW's theology.
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« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2008, 04:16:29 PM »

Just tell them the truth. That the JW cult is an american-made heresy, just like all the others and theres nothing to discuss.
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« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2008, 09:57:19 PM »

Here in chicago on palaski ave..,there is a yugoslavian seventh day adventist church one day ill pay them a visit ..see how they do thing's  in there worship .....SmileyCentral.com" border="0
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« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2008, 10:06:39 PM »

I Loooove the jw..they are good people when i was younger i use to attend a kingdom hall,,also my brother ..parent's let us go they never minded...they would invite them in house and hear there preaching they would have everything in there tracks in  our language and in cirilica...fine fine people God bless them so much ....SmileyCentral.com" border="0
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« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2008, 08:33:13 AM »

I can offer my personal experience, if you want.
I was 22 (now I'm 24) and I was alone at home, in the afternoon. Mom and dad were both at work. Two JW's came at my door and went downstairs to listen what they were to say. They gave me a booklet on their theories (I think the title was more or less "The truth that leads to life everlasting") , thanked them for the offer... and said that I would have their booklet read in a week. I immediately got in my bedroom. I had a JW bible at home (a colleague of my father once gave him one...) and many Bibles on the Internet at my disposal. On the following week they came back and asked what I thought about their faith. I answered: "Why do you say that Jesus didn't die on a cross if the symbol of your movement was originally a cross with a crown over it?" They were evidently in difficulty and could not answer. Then I continued: "How can you say that hell (hades) is just a metaphor for the Final Judgment if the story of Lazarus clearly reveals that the rich man was asking to Abraham to go and warn his relatives alive of that consuming fire? It's clear that they're in the intermediate period before Doomsday". I told that seriously but welcomingly, but can assure you they never came back anymore...

Personally I always condemn heresy and heresiarchs, but NEVER condemn the heretics which have been brain-washed by the heresiarchs. Just warn them as I did of the false doctrines of their denomination: maybe one day they're going to change their mind on that and thank you for everything in prayer, who knows...

In Christ,    Alex
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« Reply #20 on: July 06, 2008, 10:15:09 AM »

Unfortunately, my experience is the same.  JW's can be questioned about things and honestly try to defend their views, but in the end they go home with their beliefs and don't come back.  I've met only one former JW in my life, who somehow was converted to the Baptist denomination.  Any attempts to witness to the Gospel with them seem to fall on deaf ears.  Of course, there are many people who have been given the good news of Christ but have never accepted it.  May the Lord have mercy on them and us.

Edit: It might be a good idea to put an icon of Christ on a card and on the other side the verses that DavidBryan mentioned:

In the midst of the lampstands someone like a son of man... said: “Do not be fearful. I am the First and the Last, and the living one; and I became dead, but, look! I am living forever and ever, and I have the keys of death and of Ha´des. - Jesus Christ, Rev. 1:13, 17-18
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« Reply #21 on: July 06, 2008, 09:21:33 PM »

South Serb,

I would encourage you and your wife not to give them entrance to your house.  Your account that they travel in hordes (if 4 constitutes a horde) is their usual m.o.  They try to gang up on you and bombard you from multiple sides.  Allowing them entrance into your house only increases their resolve and you are made (deceptively) to feel comfortable.

 I've had this situation happen to me in my apartment shortly after my conversion to Orthodoxy.  In my hubris and arrogance, I assumed that I would be impervious and be able to handle things with dignity, patience and loving kindness.  How wrong I was!  They started becoming vitriolic and almost hateful. They even started cursing my icons of Christ and the Theotokos that I have in my apartment.  I became mad and I started becoming sarcastic which led me to become mean and insulting to the point that I nearly threw them out of my apartment.  If I had sense and just said that I wasn't interested in talking to them, it would have saved me a lot of trouble and even doubt.
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« Reply #22 on: July 06, 2008, 09:33:02 PM »

South Serb,

I would encourage you and your wife not to give them entrance to your house.  Your account that they travel in hordes (if 4 constitutes a horde) is their usual m.o.  They try to gang up on you and bombard you from multiple sides.  Allowing them entrance into your house only increases their resolve and you are made (deceptively) to feel comfortable.

 I've had this situation happen to me in my apartment shortly after my conversion to Orthodoxy.  In my hubris and arrogance, I assumed that I would be impervious and be able to handle things with dignity, patience and loving kindness.  How wrong I was!  They started becoming vitriolic and almost hateful. They even started cursing my icons of Christ and the Theotokos that I have in my apartment.  I became mad and I started becoming sarcastic which led me to become mean and insulting to the point that I nearly threw them out of my apartment.  If I had sense and just said that I wasn't interested in talking to them, it would have saved me a lot of trouble and even doubt.



Brother this seem's very hard to believe,,we have icon's all over the House including the sacred heart pictures that a catholic charity keep's sending here non stop.. the Jehova witnesses must of noticed them they never commented on them ever..maybe your situation was different i don't know?Huh all in all they are good and descent people.....SmileyCentral.com" border="0
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« Reply #23 on: July 06, 2008, 10:38:50 PM »

all in all they are good and descent people.....

They are to be commended in that they practice what they preach. It's the same with Mormons.  But, sad to say, their theology is dangerous. I have absolutely no problem practicing whatever religion or beliefs that they hold sacred, but when they try to impose it on others by use of intimidation (and that's what my meetings with them have amounted to), that's when the line has been crossed.
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« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2008, 11:05:43 PM »

They are to be commended in that they practice what they preach. It's the same with Mormons.  But, sad to say, their theology is dangerous. I have absolutely no problem practicing whatever religion or beliefs that they hold sacred, but when they try to impose it on others by use of intimidation (and that's what my meetings with them have amounted to), that's when the line has been crossed.


Im still orthodox i never converted also neather did my brother....thou we did attend a kingdom hall for quite a long time...i and my brother  never were heavy in the theoligies of there faith or orthodoxy ,,all i knew of the orthodox church , it was ancient and apostalic that's what kept me and my brother orthodox ...so i guess ignorance was a blessing for my brother and i....also it was something to do that was different.....SmileyCentral.com" border="0
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« Reply #25 on: July 07, 2008, 01:18:40 AM »


Im still orthodox i never converted also neather did my brother....thou we did attend a kingdom hall for quite a long time...i and my brother  never were heavy in the theoligies of there faith or orthodoxy ,,all i knew of the orthodox church , it was ancient and apostalic that's what kept me and my brother orthodox ...so i guess ignorance was a blessing for my brother and i....also it was something to do that was different.....SmileyCentral.com" border="0

I do believe that JWs are very sincere in their beliefs, but they are also very sincere in their endeavours to sell those beliefs to others. It is ignorance that has led many to fall for their false doctrines. From talking to those who come to the door, I get the impression that when they say that they were Catholic/Anglican/Presbyterian/whatever before becoming JWs, they actually know little or nothing of the doctrines of the denomination they claim to have left. It seems to me that it's usually that kind of believer that JWism ensnares; those who have a some degree of desire to know Christ but haven't received teaching of their own doctrines. Because there is a gapping hole in their knowledge that should have been filled with the teachings of their own faith, they are the most easily convinced by falsehoods. It's very dangerous, IMO, to rely on some kind of loyalty to "inherited" Orthodoxy to protect our children from those who would carry them off into erroneous doctrines.
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« Reply #26 on: July 07, 2008, 03:12:48 AM »

I agree we need better education in religion orthodoxy ...when i was younger i and my brother were about to attend sunday school 1st day the father that was supposed to teach us and some other kid's ..He got upset some of the kid's were making noise he slamed the bible probable a king james version on the floor and stormed out..that was the end of sunday school ,,didn't even begin yet but it ended fast never to be resurrected again in my youth..i guess his heart wasn't into teaching sunday school.....that's probably why i never got interested in religion until my later yr's....SmileyCentral.com" border="0
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« Reply #27 on: July 07, 2008, 11:44:56 AM »

We had some JW comes come over to my parent's house last Saturday. They saw the cross sun catchers hanging from the glass on the front door and immediately turned around, walked down the stairs and over to the next door neighbor's house without even ringing the doorbell. I was quite amused since my parents, myself and my fiancee were all walking to the house at that point, they simply ignored us and moved on, never even came back.

Bwahahahhahahahah!

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« Reply #28 on: July 07, 2008, 12:03:08 PM »

^I've joked with Mr. Y that we might post up a couple of icons outside the front door and see if that stems the tide of JW and Baptist visitors we get.  It would be one thing if they were interested in honest discussion, but most I've met at the door either want to invite any kids we have to Vacation Bible School or want to convert us.  When I have a crawling 8 month old who wants to stick her hand in the VCR or I'm breaking up yet another cat fight, I don't have any inclination to stop and listen to a sales pitch.
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« Reply #29 on: July 07, 2008, 03:05:34 PM »

As I generally do, I read my favorite Church Father, saint Ignatius of Antioch. I immediately thought of how our blessed third Patriarch of Antioch would have treated those who profess heresy.
After a list of common of heresies such as the refusal of Christ's existence as God in the flesh (which is also a JW doctrine), in the Epistle to the Smyrnaeans he writes such... ahem... words of "love" for those who deny the physical resurrection of the Lord (as JWs also do).

For I know that after His (=of Christ) resurrection also He was still possessed of flesh, and I believe that He is so now. When, for instance, He came to those who were with Peter, He said to them, Lay hold, handle Me, and see that I am not an incorporeal spirit. And immediately they touched Him, and believed, being convinced both by His flesh and spirit. For this cause also they despised death, and were found its conquerors. And after his resurrection He did eat and drink with them, as being possessed of flesh, although spiritually He was united to the Father.
I give you these instructions, beloved, assured that you also hold the same opinions [as I do]. But I guard you beforehand from those beasts in the shape of men, whom you must not only not receive, but, if it be possible, not even meet with; only you must pray to God for them, if by any means they may be brought to repentance, which, however, will be very difficult.
(From chapters 3 and 4 of the Epistle to the Smyrnaeans)

Wow, JW's are really lucky Ignatius lived 1900 years ago... ;-)

In Christ,      Alex

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« Reply #30 on: July 07, 2008, 09:48:28 PM »

As I generally do, I read my favorite Church Father, saint Ignatius of Antioch. I immediately thought of how our blessed third Patriarch of Antioch would have treated those who profess heresy.
After a list of common of heresies such as the refusal of Christ's existence as God in the flesh (which is also a JW doctrine), in the Epistle to the Smyrnaeans he writes such... ahem... words of "love" for those who deny the physical resurrection of the Lord (as JWs also do).

For I know that after His (=of Christ) resurrection also He was still possessed of flesh, and I believe that He is so now. When, for instance, He came to those who were with Peter, He said to them, Lay hold, handle Me, and see that I am not an incorporeal spirit. And immediately they touched Him, and believed, being convinced both by His flesh and spirit. For this cause also they despised death, and were found its conquerors. And after his resurrection He did eat and drink with them, as being possessed of flesh, although spiritually He was united to the Father.
I give you these instructions, beloved, assured that you also hold the same opinions [as I do]. But I guard you beforehand from those beasts in the shape of men, whom you must not only not receive, but, if it be possible, not even meet with; only you must pray to God for them, if by any means they may be brought to repentance, which, however, will be very difficult.
(From chapters 3 and 4 of the Epistle to the Smyrnaeans)

Wow, JW's are really lucky Ignatius lived 1900 years ago... ;-)

In Christ,      Alex



Well our beloved Saint Nicholas was supposedly reported to have punched Arius at the first Council of Nicaea in the face and made his nose bleed quite badly, so I see this as a precedent for their spiritual descendants. Cheesy
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« Reply #31 on: July 07, 2008, 09:59:17 PM »

Well our beloved Saint Nicholas was supposedly reported to have punched Arius at the first Council of Nicaea in the face and made his nose bleed quite badly, so I see this as a precedent for their spiritual descendants. Cheesy

Oh, resort to violence with pacifists, would you!!!  laugh
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« Reply #32 on: July 07, 2008, 11:46:45 PM »

Oh, resort to violence with pacifists, would you!!!  laugh
Hey I didn't say it was going to be a fair fight! Wink
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« Reply #33 on: July 07, 2008, 11:55:50 PM »

Hey I didn't say it was going to be a fair fight! Wink

 laugh
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« Reply #34 on: July 08, 2008, 09:15:18 AM »

Well our beloved Saint Nicholas was supposedly reported to have punched Arius at the first Council of Nicaea in the face and made his nose bleed quite badly, so I see this as a precedent for their spiritual descendants. Cheesy

Agreed
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« Reply #35 on: July 08, 2008, 09:52:57 AM »

Well our beloved Saint Nicholas was supposedly reported to have punched Arius at the first Council of Nicaea in the face and made his nose bleed quite badly, so I see this as a precedent for their spiritual descendants. Cheesy

Just be ready for the church discipline in response... Wink
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« Reply #36 on: July 08, 2008, 02:01:34 PM »

Ok, I'll think saints Ignatius and Nicholas could have been good friends if they lived in the same century... 
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« Reply #37 on: July 08, 2008, 04:44:02 PM »

What? I would LOVE for them to come, but they never do! Grrrrr, maybe they know to watch out for me. haha


That's how I always feel when I see them pass my house.  They don't come by anymore because:

A couple years ago I had a very brief but very in-depth conversation with some of them.  They were pretty much at a loss for words... to such a degree that they flat out said: "Well, we don't really know what else to say... so... have a good day."  Of course I studied JW-ism long before I even knew about Orthodoxy... so I knew what their basic responses would be and was able to have a counter-argument ready before they even had time to think.  But, unlike the Serbian JWs mentioned in the original post, the JWs I interacted with didn't know ANYthing about Orthodoxy... (they just assumed it was Roman Catholicism)... so they didn't have any real counter-arguments prepared.  All things considered, they seemed to take it pretty well... almost as if they were humorously re-evaluating their awareness of "ancient Christianity"... like they were inwardly saying: "So... how in the world did we miss this 'Orthodox' thing?"
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« Reply #38 on: July 13, 2008, 02:20:58 PM »

We've been getting regular visits from some JW ladies for the last several months and it's been bothering me. I'm not a very confrontational person so I haven't been able to tell them to get lost, or debate them. I generally take their materials and then put them directly into the recycle bin. But my DH and I have been feeling like we must do something...so we thought if we had a selection of pamphlets by the front door we could say something like, "we will take your literature if you take ours."  Now, we're Catholic (though I'm interested in the Orthodox Church) but perhaps something from here might work?  http://conciliarpress.com/catalog/Booklets_and_Brochures-17-1.html  Also, I know they make them for Catholics, but maybe you can find (or make) a sign to hang by your front door that says "This is an Orthodox home".  These are the 2 things we're thinking of trying. We'll see if they work.

 Cheesy
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« Reply #39 on: July 13, 2008, 02:49:39 PM »

JW's are forbidden to take other people's literature so they will probably leave at that point.
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« Reply #40 on: July 13, 2008, 09:26:57 PM »

JW's are forbidden to take other people's literature so they will probably leave at that point.

JWs can't even step foot into buildings from other religions.  My wife's grandparents are JWs, and they weren't even "allowed" to be present at my wife and I's wedding.  Grandma was very upset about this, but Grandpa insisted on obeying the rules.  However, Grandma was near ecstatic when she heard we were going to have video footage of the wedding... so I guess video somehow isn't technically considered "literature."  Also, years ago I gave them an icon of "Christ the True Vine" (Christ with the Apostles)... and Grandma was so happy.  She kept looking at it with awe.  Of course, I think she probably keeps it somewhere Grandpa can't find it.  Wink
(of course by this point he's now officially legally blind anyway  Grin... ok, its not funny, but kind of)
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« Reply #41 on: October 31, 2008, 01:26:14 AM »

I am technically a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses but I have been deprogrammed and have come to accept the Orthodox Faith. In the mean time I need to be careful and plan my escape, because when I am shunned by my entire family I need to have been moved on.

Therefore, from a former JW perspective I can give some advice to help everyone here and maybe dispell a few things.

Jehovah's Witnesses generally speaking are very kind and honest people and will normally not be confrontive or beligerent during most encounters. They may see it as being eager to address spiritual issues and wanting to get a point across but normally they will listen to a very short point.

After intensive investigation, I have found that JW's are a Bible cult. And the members that knock on your door are trained to not respond with an open mind if you try to preach your word to them. They are programmed to persuade you but not to listen to your preaching unless they can rebute it. They will not except any literature from a householder or other person on the street.

When a JW comes to your door you really have two options.

1    If you're a priest or someone that is trained pretty well in the scriptures and you have a little background on their teachings, you can engage a loving conversation with them. The best arguments to use is on their church history and where this thing was started. But there are numerous examples of other technigues on the web. Just be prepared for some scirptures to come out because they are trained to use them in a very twisted way fast, and wil make a pretzel out of you real quick! Nevertheless there are Jehovah's Witnesses that have become believers in Christ because someone said some little thing to them and it made them think. One JW was converted to become Catholic because a man told him to go read the early church fathers, after they had a discussion on the Trinity.

Take all the literature they have. Take everything they give you and try to ask for more at this point. When they are gone throw it away! When you do this you stop them from getting that literature out to others that can be poisoned.

2. If you do not ever want to talk or engage a JW at your door again then you can post a sign at the front door that is clear and readable and visible that says something like:

Attention Jehovah's Witnesses
Please do not call or knock on this door.
We are not interested in any of your messages or literature
Please keep this house on your "Do not call list"

Put it in several languages if necessary.
Date the bottom and redate it not more than three months. (Sometimes a hard core will knock thinking it is an outdated sign)

That should keep them at bay. It would be extremely rare that they proceed from there but if they do, just tell them to read the sign and that you want to be placed on the "Do not call list" and not to be disturbed again. Then close the door.

The other way to help them is to use cult intervention techniques, but that is an entirely different topic.
They are members of a cult and we should pray for them and pray to God to protect us from their teachings.

God bless







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« Reply #42 on: October 31, 2008, 01:43:46 AM »

Thanks trappedandconfused.
I wonder if you could also shed some light on this:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,12464.msg264684.html#msg264684
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« Reply #43 on: November 01, 2008, 10:11:50 PM »

I am looking for information to help me with my faith into the Orthodox Church but I certainly don't mind being used as a reference source anytime a question comes up regarding the doctrines of the Witnesses.

Yes I can shed some light on this. But perhaps someone can refute what the JW's teach on this. I would like to become more grounded in the Orthodox faith and uphold the truth. Nevertheless;

In the Gospel of Luke we have the story of the transfiguration but that same story is also recorded in Mathew's Gospel with a few more details. In Mat 17: 9, Mathew writes: "Now as they came down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, "Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man is risen from the dead"-OSB.

Now, they lock in on the word vision, and say that it was not a dream but a vision and not being real. They define the Greek word here, which I can't remember what it is, and say that it was a vision or illusion before the eyes of the apostles. They agree that this transfiguration happened and that the apostles were awake and not dreaming but they say it was, well, in my words, a show. The correct understanding of the Witnesses though is they do not believe this was done by angels but that it was a vision based on Mathew 17:9

They use the Greek word for vision in the text to relate this point.

Of course they have a different interpretation of the symbolic meaning of it all but that is another topic and I for one would like if someone could explain to me this idea behind their reasoning. Is it sound? And what is the Greek word here and is it to be understood, as they are using it?

God bless

T&C

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« Reply #44 on: November 01, 2008, 10:16:34 PM »

My last post was also posted in the other topic that was linked into this one.

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