OrthodoxChristianity.net
July 24, 2014, 07:11:18 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Roman Eastern Rite Churches Barrier to Dialogue  (Read 3693 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Heracleides
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Patriarch of Jerusalem
Posts: 390


Kona-Kai


« on: June 23, 2008, 11:50:53 AM »

Moscow Patriarchate refers to Catholic proselytism, in particular Uniates, as a barrier to dialogue with Vatican

"Moscow, June 23, Interfax - The Chairman of the Moscow Patriarchate Department for External Church Relations Metropolitan Kirill believes, that the Uniates' activity in Ukraine and the mission of certain Catholics among the Orthodox citizens in Russia and CIS still stands a barrier to the dialogue between the Russian Orthodox Church and Vatican, Interfax-Religion reports.

"There is a series of unresolved problems in our relations [with Vatican]. First of all, they include the unsettled conflict between Orthodox and Greek Catholics in Western Ukraine, and unjustified expansion of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church mission into traditionally Orthodox regions," Metropolitan said in his interview to the official site of the Bishops' Council.

According to Metropolitan Kirill, another "uneasy issue" of these relations is "the missionary activity of certain members of the Roman Catholic Church among Orthodox citizens of Russia and CIS countries."

"The joint Orthodox Catholic Working Group operates in Russia to decide such matters since 2004. We hope that its work bears fruit," said Metropolitan Kirill."


Complete article here: http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=4826
.
Logged

"And having found Heracleides there again, we instructed him to proclaim the Gospel of God..."  ~Acts of Barnabas
Orest
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 923


« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2008, 11:59:29 AM »

Well, you certainly can't be any more direct than this!
I hope this dispells any thoughts in the minds of Catholics that we Orthodox will ever approve of "double unity" a la Archbishop Lubomyr Husar.
Logged
theistgal
Byzantine (Ruthenian) Catholic gadfly
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Follower of Jesus Christ
Jurisdiction: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 2,082


don't even go there!


« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2008, 12:12:10 PM »

It just makes me more confused than usual.  Undecided
Logged

"Sometimes, you just gotta say, 'OK, I still have nine live, two-headed animals' and move on.'' (owner of Coney Island freak show, upon learning he'd been outbid on a 5-legged puppy)
Fuerza
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Faith: Latin Catholic
Posts: 18


« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2008, 12:31:13 PM »

Well, you certainly can't be any more direct than this!
I hope this dispells any thoughts in the minds of Catholics that we Orthodox will ever approve of "double unity" a la Archbishop Lubomyr Husar.

I don't approve of double unity, nor do I personally know a single Catholic who does.
Logged
theistgal
Byzantine (Ruthenian) Catholic gadfly
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Follower of Jesus Christ
Jurisdiction: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 2,082


don't even go there!


« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2008, 12:33:13 PM »

I don't approve of double unity, nor do I personally know a single Catholic who does.

I know a few married ones who do.  Wink
Logged

"Sometimes, you just gotta say, 'OK, I still have nine live, two-headed animals' and move on.'' (owner of Coney Island freak show, upon learning he'd been outbid on a 5-legged puppy)
Orest
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 923


« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2008, 01:34:08 PM »

Quote
I don't approve of double unity, nor do I personally know a single Catholic who does.
Fuerza
Dear Fuera,
Maybe you have missed this whole discussion about Archbishop Lubomyr Husar of the Ukrainian Catholic Church's pet proposal:
 http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=59186
This was based on an article a few days before in German:
http://kath.net/detail.php?id=20113
The Ukrainian Catholics have been trying this propaganda since the 1980's.

Quote
It just makes me more confused than usual.
theistgal

Dear Theistgal,
Why are you confuded?  Because your church is saying that the "Eastern Catholics" can be a bridge to unity with the Orthodox and then the Orthodox are saying, "No, that is not true, the Eastern catholics are the greatest barrier to unity."
The Turth Shall Make you Free.
Orest

Logged
Veniamin
Fire for Effect!
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA Diocese of the South
Posts: 3,372


St. Barbara, patroness of the Field Artillery


« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2008, 01:53:48 PM »

The Turth Shall Make you Free.

To paraphrase Pilate, "What is Turth?" Tongue
Logged

Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl. ~Frederick the Great
theistgal
Byzantine (Ruthenian) Catholic gadfly
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Follower of Jesus Christ
Jurisdiction: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 2,082


don't even go there!


« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2008, 02:12:09 PM »

To paraphrase Pilate, "What is Turth?" Tongue

It's the planet that revolves around Tsun.  Tongue
Logged

"Sometimes, you just gotta say, 'OK, I still have nine live, two-headed animals' and move on.'' (owner of Coney Island freak show, upon learning he'd been outbid on a 5-legged puppy)
Mickey
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Holy Orthodoxy
Posts: 1,309



« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2008, 03:15:40 PM »

It's the planet that revolves around Tsun.  Tongue
Now that is funny!  laugh
Logged
Fuerza
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Faith: Latin Catholic
Posts: 18


« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2008, 03:25:15 PM »

Dear Fuera,
Maybe you have missed this whole discussion about Archbishop Lubomyr Husar of the Ukrainian Catholic Church's pet proposal:
 http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=59186
This was based on an article a few days before in German:
http://kath.net/detail.php?id=20113
The Ukrainian Catholics have been trying this propaganda since the 1980's.

Dear Theistgal,
Why are you confuded?  Because your church is saying that the "Eastern Catholics" can be a bridge to unity with the Orthodox and then the Orthodox are saying, "No, that is not true, the Eastern catholics are the greatest barrier to unity."
The Turth Shall Make you Free.
Orest



Orest,

I'm aware of what's going on. To mee this seems like another crack at the Zogbhy initiative which neither Church went for in the 90s. Pope Benedict (obviously still a cardinal at that point) shot it down cold in strong, but nevertheless politically correct, language, and I see no indication that he would go for this pseudo-unity today either. Major Archbishop Lubomyr Husar's heart and soul are in the right place, but this is not the way to go about it.
Logged
theistgal
Byzantine (Ruthenian) Catholic gadfly
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Follower of Jesus Christ
Jurisdiction: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 2,082


don't even go there!


« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2008, 03:37:46 PM »

Now that is funny!  laugh

Thanks - I aim to please.   Cool

And back to the topic - I know it's probably been done to death, but either here, or perhaps in another thread (let me know what would be the best forum for it?) I'd really, sincerely like to ask:

Is it possible to be "Orthodox in communion with Rome"?

Logged

"Sometimes, you just gotta say, 'OK, I still have nine live, two-headed animals' and move on.'' (owner of Coney Island freak show, upon learning he'd been outbid on a 5-legged puppy)
Veniamin
Fire for Effect!
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA Diocese of the South
Posts: 3,372


St. Barbara, patroness of the Field Artillery


« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2008, 05:26:39 PM »

And back to the topic - I know it's probably been done to death, but either here, or perhaps in another thread (let me know what would be the best forum for it?) I'd really, sincerely like to ask:

Is it possible to be "Orthodox in communion with Rome"?



As Rome stands now, no, absolutely not.  To be in communion with Rome requires acceptance of both dogma and practices that are contrary to Orthodoxy.  You can be something that looks Orthodox and be in communion with Rome (see: Eastern Catholics) but you can't actually be Orthodox and in communion with Rome.
Logged

Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl. ~Frederick the Great
theistgal
Byzantine (Ruthenian) Catholic gadfly
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Follower of Jesus Christ
Jurisdiction: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 2,082


don't even go there!


« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2008, 05:42:57 PM »

As Rome stands now, no, absolutely not.  To be in communion with Rome requires acceptance of both dogma and practices that are contrary to Orthodoxy.  You can be something that looks Orthodox and be in communion with Rome (see: Eastern Catholics) but you can't actually be Orthodox and in communion with Rome.

Hmm ... OK.  So what dogma and practices would an Eastern Rite Catholic have to reject in order to be acceptable to the Eastern Orthodox?  (I mean, besides the Imperial Papacy, the Filioque and the Immaculate Conception, which some (not all) EC's already do reject.)*

(edit:  And I haven't forgotten about Purgatory!  Grin)

And P.S. - I have started a thread in Convert Issues about this topic as well:  http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,16623.new.html#new)
« Last Edit: June 24, 2008, 07:05:01 PM by theistgal » Logged

"Sometimes, you just gotta say, 'OK, I still have nine live, two-headed animals' and move on.'' (owner of Coney Island freak show, upon learning he'd been outbid on a 5-legged puppy)
username!
Moderator
Protokentarchos
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Ukrainian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Pennsylvaniadoxy
Posts: 5,027



« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2008, 10:23:04 PM »

I don't approve of double unity, nor do I personally know a single Catholic who does.

Just because you don't approve of it and you don't know any Roman Catholics who do doesn't mean there aren't Catholics who do approve. 
Logged

buzuxi
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: GREEK ORTHODOX
Jurisdiction: WORLD ORTHODOXY AGAINST ECUMENISM
Posts: 265


« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2008, 12:20:29 AM »

Cardinal Huser's remarks is speaking more about the "dream" of many ukranians. To restore a canonical Orthodox Patriarch of Kiev. Most ukranian catholics (and those belonging to the non-canonical groups) simply dont like Moscow, this is the real reason for uniting with the pope and these byzantine right catholics will be glad to leave Rome, once they get their own national orthodox Church.  The article simply has manipulated things out of context to seem to allude to a double unia, but the final paragraph gives it away. The EP can say all he wants, he has no jurisidciton in the Ukraine.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2008, 12:21:52 AM by buzuxi » Logged
SolEX01
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, Holy Metropolis of New Jersey
Posts: 10,983


WWW
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2008, 12:26:51 AM »

Has there ever been an Autocephalous Orthodox Church in the Ukraine?
Logged
LBK
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 10,156


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!


« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2008, 12:32:14 AM »

Not a canonical one, as far as I know. But I could be wrong.
Logged
Fuerza
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Faith: Latin Catholic
Posts: 18


« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2008, 07:26:25 AM »

Just because you don't approve of it and you don't know any Roman Catholics who do doesn't mean there aren't Catholics who do approve. 

No it doesn't. But it also doesn't mean that all or even most do. I was speaking out against the broad generalization made earlier in this thread.
Logged
Mickey
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Holy Orthodoxy
Posts: 1,309



« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2008, 09:46:18 AM »

Hmm ... OK.  So what dogma and practices would an Eastern Rite Catholic have to reject in order to be acceptable to the Eastern Orthodox?  (I mean, besides the Imperial Papacy, the Filioque and the Immaculate Conception, which some (not all) EC's already do reject.)*
I am confused. Being in communion with Rome, are you not obligated to accept these things with a Latin Catholic understanding-- under pain of excommunication?

Logged
theistgal
Byzantine (Ruthenian) Catholic gadfly
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Follower of Jesus Christ
Jurisdiction: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 2,082


don't even go there!


« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2008, 01:24:24 PM »

I am confused. Being in communion with Rome, are you not obligated to accept these things with a Latin Catholic understanding-- under pain of excommunication?

Hi, Mickey - -

Well, since you responded to my thread in the Convert Issues forum, I know you are aware that I am still working on this!

However, my understanding - what I've been told, which I realize may be different from what actually is - is that we're obligated to accept these things with an *Eastern Catholic* understanding.  What that is, exactly, is what I (and most ECs!) are still trying to figure out!  Cool
« Last Edit: June 25, 2008, 01:25:29 PM by theistgal » Logged

"Sometimes, you just gotta say, 'OK, I still have nine live, two-headed animals' and move on.'' (owner of Coney Island freak show, upon learning he'd been outbid on a 5-legged puppy)
Mickey
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Holy Orthodoxy
Posts: 1,309



« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2008, 01:52:49 PM »

What that is, exactly, is what I (and most ECs!) are still trying to figure out!  Cool
I hear ya!  Roll Eyes
Logged
username!
Moderator
Protokentarchos
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Ukrainian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Pennsylvaniadoxy
Posts: 5,027



« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2008, 01:58:22 AM »

Hi, Mickey - -

Well, since you responded to my thread in the Convert Issues forum, I know you are aware that I am still working on this!

However, my understanding - what I've been told, which I realize may be different from what actually is - is that we're obligated to accept these things with an *Eastern Catholic* understanding.  What that is, exactly, is what I (and most ECs!) are still trying to figure out!  Cool

Alas the crossroads question, I have an answer for you. 
« Last Edit: June 26, 2008, 01:59:50 AM by username! » Logged

theistgal
Byzantine (Ruthenian) Catholic gadfly
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Follower of Jesus Christ
Jurisdiction: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 2,082


don't even go there!


« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2008, 11:49:34 AM »

Alas the crossroads question, I have an answer for you. 

Answers are always welcome, as long as I have a question to match.  Wink
Logged

"Sometimes, you just gotta say, 'OK, I still have nine live, two-headed animals' and move on.'' (owner of Coney Island freak show, upon learning he'd been outbid on a 5-legged puppy)
Orest
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 923


« Reply #23 on: July 06, 2008, 10:57:58 PM »

Here is an update to that Catholic claim that the Ecumenical Patriarch approves of "double unity" for Eastern-rite Catholics like the Ukrainian Catholics.

Quote
PRESS RELEASE

With respect to the recently published articles reporting that allegedly His All
Holiness Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew believes that it is possible for the
Greek Catholics (Uniates) to have a “double union”, in other words, full
communion with Rome as well as with Constantinople, the Ecumenical Patriarchate
refutes this inaccurate statement and affirms it was never made. The Ecumenical
Patriarchate repeats its position that full union in faith is a prerequisite for
sacramental communion.

At the Patriarchate, the 5th of July 2008
From the Chief Secretariat of the Holy Synod
Logged
SolEX01
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, Holy Metropolis of New Jersey
Posts: 10,983


WWW
« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2008, 11:02:12 PM »

Here is an update to that Catholic claim that the Ecumenical Patriarch approves of "double unity" for Eastern-rite Catholics like the Ukrainian Catholics.

Where did the quote come from and is there a link?
Logged
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.395 seconds with 54 queries.