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Author Topic: In what ways might God value creation?  (Read 2139 times) Average Rating: 0
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Lavis Knight
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« on: July 26, 2003, 01:56:46 PM »

Is there any way to know in what ways God may value his creation?

If God exists and assuming a traditional God/Universe dualism (Implying that God is seperate from His creation and is of a seperate substance from His creation)

In such a sense God could be seen as an inteligent creator, and that creation must serve some sort of purpose.. on the other hand however, if creation is viewed more as art, In some artistic paradigms (lol) art in that view does not have a purpose in such a sense then neither would creation.

From such a standpoint as we know that inteligent beings (Humans) Create things for purpose as well as non-purpose. But despite this the action of creation at it's base would have to have an intention (Or some causal intention as far as God decided to create) as God would not do something out of no intention. (Which would imply chaos rather than an inteligent being)

So then in what ways does God value creation and how can we know this outside a holy text? Or were holy texts the way God wished to show us.. of course the problem in that case comes from conflicting ideas in various texts...

In such ideas i suppose i am assuming these things:

1. God created the Universe with intention although that does not have to imply purpose.

2. God created the Universe in a way that it could have the chance to support life (Even though God may have just set the factors and let them go on their own and life happened out of chance of those factors)

3. There seems to be reports (Although they may only be seen as hearsay should still be considered) that God has acted in the world by various authors of holy texts, many people also claim to have a relationship with God, although others claim God does not exist or does not interact with the world.. why do some see God and not others? What could this imply under the assumption that God does interact with the world in some way?

4. Creation is still around, implying that God wishes it to be around for some reason, whether that reason is that God does not care if it is here or cares about what "this" is, is not known to me.

However i guess the overlying question would be..

How do we know in what ways God values creation?

(If i was unclear anywhere.. i would be happy to clarify, asi tend to jumble things alot when i write ^^;; )
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If the best thing one can do is point out what they believe darkness be... then how will anyone find light?

The strongest and purest statement of faith i have ever heard was simply: "I love you God"
Lavis Knight
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« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2003, 10:01:33 PM »

Wow no answers ^_^;;; ?
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If the best thing one can do is point out what they believe darkness be... then how will anyone find light?

The strongest and purest statement of faith i have ever heard was simply: "I love you God"
sinjinsmythe
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« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2003, 11:14:11 PM »

I don't know how to answer this. Maybe one of the others can help you Lavis.
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Lavis Knight
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« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2003, 12:17:44 PM »

Thank you Sinjin ^^;;

Oblio, Linus ^_^;; anyone?

I apologize for being silent for so long.. and i do not mean to ask such a question out of malice or mock..

-Lavis
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If the best thing one can do is point out what they believe darkness be... then how will anyone find light?

The strongest and purest statement of faith i have ever heard was simply: "I love you God"
sinjinsmythe
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« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2003, 03:49:10 AM »

Maybe no one can answer this question. Perhaps this is something that eludes many. I find it surprising that no one has answered..I thought something would at least try to answer. Huh
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prodromos
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« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2003, 04:09:25 AM »

I think part of the reason no one has responded is because its not a question that we have really looked at ourselves and so have not already formulated our own answers. Thus, to properly answer Lavis's question (and I don't think anyone wants to give a shoddy response) requires that we actually knuckle down and do a bit of study ourselves which can be difficult with the commitments that most of us have.

My own answer is simply that God loves His creation and that He is merciful. I don't have all the why's and wherefore's handy though, nor have I had the time (or the desire, to be honest) to fully flesh out my understanding to the satisfaction of others. I guess the main difficulty for me is that the question has never come up in my mind.

Sorry I'm not much help to you Lavis, I wish I could be.

John.
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Doubting Thomas
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« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2003, 08:43:23 AM »

Prodromos,
Your answer sounds good to me  Smiley.  God, who is Love, does indeed love His creation.  Amen!
DT
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Lavis Knight
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« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2003, 12:29:18 PM »

How do i know God feels this way Paradosis? There has to be a way to see this.. i find myself desperatly searching for an answer having no idea where to look.. i cannot blindly accept someones claim to God.. i have to meet God first..

One does not become Christian and find God.. one would certainly first find God then become Christian.
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If the best thing one can do is point out what they believe darkness be... then how will anyone find light?

The strongest and purest statement of faith i have ever heard was simply: "I love you God"
Doubting Thomas
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« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2003, 03:22:22 PM »

One does not become Christian and find God.. one would certainly first find God then become Christian.

That's true...as far as it goes.  Technically, however, God finds US.  He reveals Himself through His creation, His natural law that He inscribes on the hearts of men, and in His Holy Scriptures.  He ultimately reveals Himself through Christ who is God Incarnate.  He also draws people to Himself through His Holy Spirit.  He seeks us out first before we ever seek Him.

So, yes...one becomes a Christian by encountering God and more specifically,  encountering God in Christ.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2003, 03:24:25 PM by Doubting Thomas » Logged

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amhalaba
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« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2003, 07:15:30 PM »

"God's motive in creation is love. Rather than say that he created the universe out of nothing, we should say he created it out of his own self, which is love. We should think, not of God the Manufacturer or God the Craftsman, but of God the Lover. Creation is an act not so much of his free will as of his free love. To love means to share, as the doctrine of the Trinity has so clearly shown us: God is not just one but one-in-three, because he is a communion of persons whe share in love with one another. The circle of divine love, however, has not remained closed. God's love is, in the literal sense of the word, ‘ecstatic’ love, so that there might be besides himself other beings to participate in life and the love that are his."

- The Orthodox Way, Kallistos Ware

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amhalaba
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« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2003, 07:16:56 PM »

"In ascribing a transitive concern to God, we employ neither an anthropomorphic nor an anthropopathic concept but an idea that we should like to characterize as an anthropopneumism (anthropo + pneuma). We ascribe to Him not a psychic but a spiritual characteristic, not an emotional but a moral attitude. Those who refuse to ascribe a transitive concern to God are unknowingly compelled to conceive His existence, if it should mean anything at all, after the analogy of physical being and to think of Him in terms of "physiomorphism."

Creation in the language of the Bible is an act of expression. God said: "Let there be"; and it was. And creation is not an act that happened once, but a continuous process. The word Yehi, "Let there be," stands forever in the universe. If it were not for the presence of that word, there would be no world, there would be no finite being.

When we say that He is present within all beings, we do not mean that He inheres in them as a component or ingredient of their physical structure. God in the universe is a spirit of concern for life. What is a thing to us is a concern to God; what is a part of the physical world of being is also a part of a adivine world of meaning. To be is to stand for, to stand for a divine concern.

God is present in His continuous expression. He is immanent in all beings in the way in which a person is immanent in a cry that he utters: He stands for what he says. He is concerned with what he says. All beings are replete with the divine word which only leaves when our viciousness profanes and overbears His silent, patient presence.

It is as easy to expel God as it is to shed blood. And yet even when He hides, even when our souls have lost His trace we may still call Him out of the depths: out of the depths of all things. For God is everywhere save in arrogance.

We may not know what He is, but we know where He is. No tongue can describe His essence, but every soul may both share His presence and feel the anguish of His dreadful absence....

...The song that nature sings is not her own. She is ablaze with a fire she barely contains; her independence, her unity, her beauty, are borrowed perfection. Only those who do not notice that their knowledge is a pretext for higher ignorance fail to sense at the marvel of her fortitude to endure, the marvel of her not being consumed; not seeing the bush, they also miss the voice.

If the universe were explainable as a robot, we could assume that God is separated from it and His relation to it would be like that of a watchmaker to a clock. But the ineffable cries out to all things. It is only the idea of a divine presence hidden within the rational order of nature which is compatible with our scientific view of nature and in accord with our sense of the ineffable.

The soul dwells within, yet the spirit is always hovering above reality. God's infinite concern is present in the world, His essence is trancendent. He includes the universe, but, to quote Solomon's prayer in dedicating the Temple; "Behold, the heaven, and the heaven of heavens, cannot contain Thee" (1 Kings:8:27). The awareness of God as the dwelling-place of the universe must have been very poignant in post-Biblical times, if Makom ("place") was synonym for God.

The soul is within: passive, hidden; the spirit is beyond: active, infinite."

- from Man is Not Alone by Joshua Abraham Heschel
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"To live is to change, and to become perfect is to change often." - John Henry Neumann
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