OrthodoxChristianity.net
October 23, 2014, 04:27:52 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Catholic Church Music  (Read 3141 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
TinaG
I am not a pessimist - I'm just grimly realistic!
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 870


If only my family were this normal !


WWW
« on: December 03, 2008, 01:28:47 PM »

I don't want to offend anyone, but I have a question/comment about the Gather Comprehensive hymnal.  I just attended a funeral yesterday and the church was using this hymnal.  Another RC friend said their church uses is also.  It's been a while since I last attended a mass, but I was very suprised at the music in this hymnal.  I don't recall musical arrangements like this.  I'm trying to avoid using the word 'dreadful, but I thought I was listening to Andrew Lloyd Weber numbers.  Is this typical of RC music today?  What is the general opinion on this hymnal? 
Logged

On the spiritual path somewhere between the Simpsons and St. Theophan the Recluse, but I still can't see the Springfield city limits sign yet.
Schultz
Christian. Guitarist. Zymurgist. Librarian.
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,481


Scion of the McKeesport Becks.


WWW
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2008, 01:44:03 PM »

I don't want to offend anyone, but I have a question/comment about the Gather Comprehensive hymnal.  I just attended a funeral yesterday and the church was using this hymnal.  Another RC friend said their church uses is also.  It's been a while since I last attended a mass, but I was very suprised at the music in this hymnal.  I don't recall musical arrangements like this.  I'm trying to avoid using the word 'dreadful, but I thought I was listening to Andrew Lloyd Weber numbers.  Is this typical of RC music today?  What is the general opinion on this hymnal? 


It depends on who you ask.  In my area (Baltimore), the older folk, especially women in their 70s-80s, eat this stuff up, as do the hippie-dippie musician crowd that seem to occupy all the musical director chairs in the various parishes.  The younger you get, though, the more dissatisfied the opinions.  People in their 30s and under often feel short-changed by having to sing all the incredibly dated sounding hymns in the We Gather hymnal while being forced to practically ignore the more majestic hymns like "O Sacred Head Surrounded". 

I grew up singing alot of the OCP hymns in Catholic school and I admit I have a soft spot in my heart for tunes like "Gentle Woman" and "City of God".  However, as I got older and took my faith more seriously, I hated singing them at Mass, especially when "they" started messing with the words.  For example, there's a line in "City of God" that goes:

"In God is love, in Him there is no darkness"

The last time I was at a Latin rite Mass that wasn't a funeral, at the co-cathedral of Mary our Queen no-less, the guitar choir sang:

"In God is love, in GOD there is no darkness"

I walked out.

I'm sure lubeltri and Papist have had similar experiences.  More tradtionally minded musicians are hopeful that the pontificate of Pope Benedict will have the effect of restoring more traditional music.  His reign has certainly had an effect on the way some priests orient their altars, either all the way to the East or at least having a crucifix as a central point when celebrating ad populum.   However, many have noted that the musical programs at various Papal Masses, even in St Peter's, is often more of the same.  Hopefully, for Roman Catholics, this will change also.

This is, of course, my experience and others may disagree.
Logged

"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen
Andrea
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 181


« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2008, 01:50:17 PM »

I haven't seen the Gather Comprehensive hymnal-the parish we attended for a while used an OCP hymnal. And yes, the music most of the time is dreadful and cringe-worthy. The day my kids were baptized they sang this lovely number: http://www.spiritandsong.com/musicondemand/songs/266
 (The arrangement on that site is slightly funkier). You're right, it seems like a lot of the music has a show-tune quality. 

I see in looking through the table of contents of the hymnal you mentioned, there is a lot of Marty Haugen. I think his "Mass of Creation" is pretty common in Catholic parishes, at least most of the Masses we've been to have used it.  I know a lot of people though that don't care for his music at all.

I spent a few years at a traditional Episcopal church singing beautiful hymns with the choir. When we entered the Catholic church the music was especially painful for me to hear. 

Edited to fix link



« Last Edit: December 03, 2008, 01:51:16 PM by Andrea » Logged
Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 12,264


Praying for the Christians in Iraq


« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2008, 01:58:29 PM »

I will have to agree with everything that Shultz posted.
Logged

Note Papist's influence from the tyrannical monarchism of traditional papism .
Elisha
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 4,441


« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2008, 02:10:39 PM »

I attended a Mass recently at a church near where I go skydiving.  The link Andrea provided seemed to be close to the music I heard.  Besides the Mass at the ordination I attended last year, this was probably only the second in over 10 years.  I was disappointed.
Logged
lubeltri
Latin Catholic layman
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Archdiocese of Boston
Posts: 3,795



« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2008, 02:13:55 PM »

It is wretched. Whenever I go to an unknown parish and hear some woman stand up in front and say, "Good morning. Our 'gathering song' is so-and-so on page so-and-so in the blue Gather book. Please Rise." my legs want to rise, all right, and skedaddle out of there!

It seems like half of the dreck in that hymnal is from Marty Haugen and David Haas.

It is unfortunately quite common in American parishes---though the trend is downward, thank God---only aging boomer types really like it. It is the worst hymnal on the market.

Logged
lubeltri
Latin Catholic layman
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Archdiocese of Boston
Posts: 3,795



« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2008, 02:13:56 PM »

Hi Tina,

This book is an excellent read. It has become a classic, the definitive book on the subject:

http://www.amazon.com/Why-Catholics-Cant-Sing-Catholicism/dp/0824511530

Logged
Mickey
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Holy Orthodoxy
Posts: 1,309



« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2008, 02:18:04 PM »

For example, there's a line in "City of God" that goes:

"In God is love, in Him there is no darkness"

The last time I was at a Latin rite Mass that wasn't a funeral, at the co-cathedral of Mary our Queen no-less, the guitar choir sang:

"In God is love, in GOD there is no darkness"

I walked out.

Ah, you have just reminded me of the terrible revision of the Divine Liturgy in the Byzantine Catholic Church. When I was still a part of that Church, they released this revision. The word "men" was removed from the Creed (For us "men" and for our salvation...).  And the phrase "Who loves mankind" was changed to "Who loves us all".  This was done so as not to offend women, but every Byzantine Catholic woman that I knew (including my wife) was offended by the gender neutral language.

When political correctness and secular humanism is allowed to revise the Liturgy, the door is opened for further abuses.

The Liturgy is suppose to change the world--not the other way around.

Thank you for listening to my rant.  Undecided
Logged
wynd
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 501


Transfiguration


« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2008, 06:06:15 PM »

I'm sure lubeltri and Papist have had similar experiences.  More tradtionally minded musicians are hopeful that the pontificate of Pope Benedict will have the effect of restoring more traditional music.  His reign has certainly had an effect on the way some priests orient their altars, either all the way to the East or at least having a crucifix as a central point when celebrating ad populum.   However, many have noted that the musical programs at various Papal Masses, even in St Peter's, is often more of the same.  Hopefully, for Roman Catholics, this will change also.

This is, of course, my experience and others may disagree.

That is my experience as well. One of the most disappointing moments I can remember was when I asked my pastor why we used OCP and/or praise and worship music instead of Gregorian chant, since chant was the venerable tradition of the Latin church and Vatican II spoke so highly of it. He replied, "I know you're right and I agree with you, but OCP/praise and worship is what reaches people, and to others such as yourself who want more reverence I can only say mea culpa." Sad

Hopefully Pope Benedict can continue his work in restoring a sense of the sacred to the OF Mass.
Logged
Myrrh23
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,639



« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2008, 06:13:38 PM »

Growing up in the RCC, I hated the music we had to sing. It was too Protestant to me, while I loved singing the Latin songs, such as Agnus Dei. It got worse in college when the popular kids with the guitar and sometimes the drums would belt out a sort of rock n roll kind of Catholic music. We often had the rehearsed speech that Lubeltri describes in my youth RCC. Cheesy
Logged

*I am no longer posting on OC.net*

We all have a Black Dog and a White Dog inside of us. The One you feed the most eventually eats the Other.

All are tempted, but it is the courageous person who clings to God during the storm. For the Ego is a prison, but Christ is the Liberator
Heorhij
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOA, for now, but my heart belongs to the Ukrainian Orthodox Church
Posts: 8,576



WWW
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2008, 06:33:44 PM »

I absolutely admire the old, classical Roman Catholic liturgical music. Since my early childhood, it kept mesmerizing me, and it still does. When I was a little boy, I used to sing in a boys' choir (it's hard to believe now, but I really had a beautiful second discanto voice when I was a little kid). Even though this was the anti-theist Soviet Union, some items in our repertoire were RC liturgical; for example, we sang several fragments from G.B. Pergolesi's "Stabat Mater," and of course "Ave Maria." The pieces from "Stabat Mater" are among my all-time favorites from all music of all times and cultures, especially "Quando Corpus..."

On the other hand... yes, I, too, was appaled, shocked when I visited our local RC church in our small Southern US town and heard some terrible cacophony there, when young people were just beating on guitar strings and "singing" something that resembled very badly performed "Christian Rock" (arrrrrgh). Abomination. Sad
« Last Edit: December 03, 2008, 06:49:21 PM by Heorhij » Logged

Love never fails.
prodromas
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Under the Green Pope
Posts: 1,239

Greek Orthodox


« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2008, 07:54:57 PM »

Although sadly I have never been to Mass, Yesterday I bought a CD called "The Preists" which is a beautiful C-D chanted by 3 Roman Catholic Preists, I heard Ava Maria and it was so beautiful. I am glad that all my experiences with "Western Music" have been joyful and tasteful.
Logged

The sins I don't commit are largely due to the weakness of my limbs.

1915-1923 Հայոց Ցեղասպանութիւն ,never again,
ܩܛܠܐ ܕܥܡܐ ܐܬܘܪܝܐ 1920-1914, never again,
השואה  1933-1945, never again,
(1914-1923) Ελληνική Γενοκτονία, never again
VirSpeluncaeOrthodoxae
Da Orthodox Caveman! aka "Cavey"
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antioch...for now
Posts: 102



« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2008, 12:14:46 AM »

I sing for a Catholic Church (they pay me) and I am forced to sing that crap! The blue Gather hymnal is chock full of banal, idiotic melodies by that duo of destruction Haugen and Haas, and they try to be cute with dotted sixteenth notes in the melodies. Martin Luther would've been offended by this neo-pagan drivel, especially "Canticle of the Sun"! This stuff was written for the vague rubrics of the Novus Ordo (New Order). It would fit the St. Gregory DL like an elevator belongs in an outhouse. Once in a while they have sing some classic latin pieces but every once in a while I have to pick up that blue book of Lucifer. I can do it only because I'm being paid and it's not my church.

Seriously folks, go to a typical Novus Ordo Catholic "community" and listen to it.
Logged

Medieval, backwards, rigid, narrow-minded Traditionalist, Western Rite lover and proud of it! Make my day.
TinaG
I am not a pessimist - I'm just grimly realistic!
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 870


If only my family were this normal !


WWW
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2008, 03:24:33 AM »

I would never say so to my friend because overall the funeral was wonderful.  My friend's eulogy of her mother was a 4 tissue reflection.  The responsorial hymn, Shepherd Me O Lord, was beautiful.  But, Here I Am Lord (#686) - gag, gag.  That one was definitely show tune.  On Eagle's Wings (#611) and City of God (678)- right up there too.  I never thought I'd say the Lutheran music I grew up with wasn't too bad in comparison.
Logged

On the spiritual path somewhere between the Simpsons and St. Theophan the Recluse, but I still can't see the Springfield city limits sign yet.
Heorhij
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOA, for now, but my heart belongs to the Ukrainian Orthodox Church
Posts: 8,576



WWW
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2008, 09:45:50 AM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNt13Vw-K6Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEigZTmYf60

What in the world are people looking for, why guitars, "rock," cheap "sweet" goat-like "singing" in falcettos, trivial easy tunes, trivial easy words - when God has already given us THIS splendor?...
Logged

Love never fails.
Lily
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 75


« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2008, 01:40:55 PM »

It's funny when people describe the hippie Catholic music as Protestant- Growing up Lutheran we sang 4 part Bach chorales!

I do miss some of the Masses we sang when I was a music major in college, like the Faure Requiem.  I also liked singing the early stuff like Palestrina.


Logged
Andrea
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 181


« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2008, 01:47:02 PM »

I would never say so to my friend because overall the funeral was wonderful.  My friend's eulogy of her mother was a 4 tissue reflection.  The responsorial hymn, Shepherd Me O Lord, was beautiful.  But, Here I Am Lord (#686) - gag, gag.  That one was definitely show tune.  On Eagle's Wings (#611) and City of God (678)- right up there too.  I never thought I'd say the Lutheran music I grew up with wasn't too bad in comparison.

The parish we were attending loved Here I Am Lord.  It was sung quite a bit. ugh.
Logged
Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 12,264


Praying for the Christians in Iraq


« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2008, 02:33:42 PM »

Bad Church music is one of the reasons I often find myself attending the local Byzantine Catholic Church.
Logged

Note Papist's influence from the tyrannical monarchism of traditional papism .
Athanasios
Latin Rite Catholic faithful to the Holy Father and the Magisterium
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Latin Church Diocese of Youngstown
Posts: 1,800


The Divine Mercy


« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2008, 06:59:55 PM »

AH!! Bad music in the Liturgy -- it's been a living nightmare for the past 30-40 years. Not just the junk they "borrowed" from the Protestants (i.e., Amazing Grace), but the stuff that the likes of Haas and Haugen have written. There is one hymn called "Gather Us In" that is popular for the Processional. One line in it says "give us the courage to enter the song" -- how smart to pray for courage to belt out this drivel.

Now, it hasn't all been bad -- there are a handful of good hymns that have come out of this. There are even a couple Psalm settings that are excellent and many that are just ok.

One problem is that OCP and GIA have a marketing grip on this market, so that many parishes have been enslaved to the OCP line of products. And it is hard to break free.


Probably the best Catholic Hymnal today is the Adoremus Hymnal.
Logged

Through the intercession of Our Lady of Mount Carmel, may Jesus Christ bless you abundantly.

Pray that we may be one, as Christ and His Father are one. (John 17:20ff)

A.K.A. - JMJ_coder
Athanasios
Latin Rite Catholic faithful to the Holy Father and the Magisterium
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Latin Church Diocese of Youngstown
Posts: 1,800


The Divine Mercy


« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2008, 07:02:40 PM »

Ah, you have just reminded me of the terrible revision of the Divine Liturgy in the Byzantine Catholic Church. When I was still a part of that Church, they released this revision. The word "men" was removed from the Creed (For us "men" and for our salvation...).  And the phrase "Who loves mankind" was changed to "Who loves us all".  This was done so as not to offend women, but every Byzantine Catholic woman that I knew (including my wife) was offended by the gender neutral language.

When political correctness and secular humanism is allowed to revise the Liturgy, the door is opened for further abuses.

The Liturgy is suppose to change the world--not the other way around.

Thank you for listening to my rant.  Undecided

But, that's not an alteration of the Liturgy - but of the translations of the texts of the Liturgy.
Logged

Through the intercession of Our Lady of Mount Carmel, may Jesus Christ bless you abundantly.

Pray that we may be one, as Christ and His Father are one. (John 17:20ff)

A.K.A. - JMJ_coder
Athanasios
Latin Rite Catholic faithful to the Holy Father and the Magisterium
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Latin Church Diocese of Youngstown
Posts: 1,800


The Divine Mercy


« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2008, 07:04:18 PM »

For example, there's a line in "City of God" that goes:

"In God is love, in Him there is no darkness"

The last time I was at a Latin rite Mass that wasn't a funeral, at the co-cathedral of Mary our Queen no-less, the guitar choir sang:

"In God is love, in GOD there is no darkness"

I walked out.

I don't see what you're seeing as the objection. What's the difference between the use of the pronoun and the noun it references?
Logged

Through the intercession of Our Lady of Mount Carmel, may Jesus Christ bless you abundantly.

Pray that we may be one, as Christ and His Father are one. (John 17:20ff)

A.K.A. - JMJ_coder
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 32,659


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2008, 07:21:29 PM »

For example, there's a line in "City of God" that goes:

"In God is love, in Him there is no darkness"

The last time I was at a Latin rite Mass that wasn't a funeral, at the co-cathedral of Mary our Queen no-less, the guitar choir sang:

"In God is love, in GOD there is no darkness"

I walked out.

I don't see what you're seeing as the objection. What's the difference between the use of the pronoun and the noun it references?
It's the change to gender-neutral language that is the issue, AISI.  And in a way that actually erodes the poetic flow of the line.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2008, 07:25:14 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
Athanasios
Latin Rite Catholic faithful to the Holy Father and the Magisterium
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Latin Church Diocese of Youngstown
Posts: 1,800


The Divine Mercy


« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2008, 07:26:35 PM »

For example, there's a line in "City of God" that goes:

"In God is love, in Him there is no darkness"

The last time I was at a Latin rite Mass that wasn't a funeral, at the co-cathedral of Mary our Queen no-less, the guitar choir sang:

"In God is love, in GOD there is no darkness"

I walked out.

I don't see what you're seeing as the objection. What's the difference between the use of the pronoun and the noun it references?
It's the change to gender-neutral language that is the issue, AISI.

But, it's GOD! For one thing, at least to me, God is a masculine word. And I truly don't see a problem with using the word God.

Now, the intentions of the switchers may be questioned - but the change itself is unobjectionable - in my mind.
Logged

Through the intercession of Our Lady of Mount Carmel, may Jesus Christ bless you abundantly.

Pray that we may be one, as Christ and His Father are one. (John 17:20ff)

A.K.A. - JMJ_coder
wynd
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 501


Transfiguration


« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2008, 09:49:57 PM »

Probably the best Catholic Hymnal today is the Adoremus Hymnal.

I prefer this one Wink
Logged
Athanasios
Latin Rite Catholic faithful to the Holy Father and the Magisterium
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Latin Church Diocese of Youngstown
Posts: 1,800


The Divine Mercy


« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2008, 09:55:06 PM »

Probably the best Catholic Hymnal today is the Adoremus Hymnal.

I prefer this one Wink

But, with all due respect, the Graduale Romanum is not a hymnalWink
Logged

Through the intercession of Our Lady of Mount Carmel, may Jesus Christ bless you abundantly.

Pray that we may be one, as Christ and His Father are one. (John 17:20ff)

A.K.A. - JMJ_coder
Athanasios
Latin Rite Catholic faithful to the Holy Father and the Magisterium
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Latin Church Diocese of Youngstown
Posts: 1,800


The Divine Mercy


« Reply #25 on: December 06, 2008, 09:57:00 PM »

Here is a question for the Orthodox posters:

If you could take one hymn or chant from the treasury of Latin Catholic sacred music and use it in the Divine Liturgy at your church ... which one would it be?
Logged

Through the intercession of Our Lady of Mount Carmel, may Jesus Christ bless you abundantly.

Pray that we may be one, as Christ and His Father are one. (John 17:20ff)

A.K.A. - JMJ_coder
SolEX01
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, Holy Metropolis of New Jersey
Posts: 11,469


WWW
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2008, 01:45:57 AM »

Here is a question for the Orthodox posters:

If you could take one hymn or chant from the treasury of Latin Catholic sacred music and use it in the Divine Liturgy at your church ... which one would it be?

None.
Logged
Alveus Lacuna
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 6,917



« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2008, 03:49:09 AM »

None.

AwWWWWW, snap.
Logged
prodromas
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Under the Green Pope
Posts: 1,239

Greek Orthodox


« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2008, 09:30:09 AM »

Here is a question for the Orthodox posters:

If you could take one hymn or chant from the treasury of Latin Catholic sacred music and use it in the Divine Liturgy at your church ... which one would it be?

Ava Maria without a doubt, I absolutely love it.
Logged

The sins I don't commit are largely due to the weakness of my limbs.

1915-1923 Հայոց Ցեղասպանութիւն ,never again,
ܩܛܠܐ ܕܥܡܐ ܐܬܘܪܝܐ 1920-1914, never again,
השואה  1933-1945, never again,
(1914-1923) Ελληνική Γενοκτονία, never again
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,963



« Reply #29 on: December 07, 2008, 10:07:10 AM »

Here is a question for the Orthodox posters:

If you could take one hymn or chant from the treasury of Latin Catholic sacred music and use it in the Divine Liturgy at your church ... which one would it be?

Dies Irae.

Actually, we use Te Deum.  Thank you St. Ambrose on your day.

Otherwise, why not go Western Rite and get the whole thing?

Although sadly I have never been to Mass, Yesterday I bought a CD called "The Preists" which is a beautiful C-D chanted by 3 Roman Catholic Preists, I heard Ava Maria and it was so beautiful. I am glad that all my experiences with "Western Music" have been joyful and tasteful.

Not totally off topic, but I have had the pleasure to go to Western Rite DL a couple times this year, both St. Gregory and St. Tikhon.  The music was from their own hymnal, which seemed all traditional (I had gone to a Latin mass in high school, and learned the words and chant).  The last time they sung "All Mortal Flesh Keep Silent" during communion, which I had first heard years ago by a Latin choir.  Awesome, just awesome.

Btw, I love the Angelus, even say it in Latin (I usually pray in Arabic or English).  Those in my former Latin High School (where I was the
mad dog Lutheran") would probably drop dead if they knew that.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2008, 10:25:07 AM by ialmisry » Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,963



« Reply #30 on: December 07, 2008, 10:13:13 AM »

For example, there's a line in "City of God" that goes:

"In God is love, in Him there is no darkness"

The last time I was at a Latin rite Mass that wasn't a funeral, at the co-cathedral of Mary our Queen no-less, the guitar choir sang:

"In God is love, in GOD there is no darkness"

I walked out.

I don't see what you're seeing as the objection. What's the difference between the use of the pronoun and the noun it references?

The mentality behind it.

Ah, you have just reminded me of the terrible revision of the Divine Liturgy in the Byzantine Catholic Church. When I was still a part of that Church, they released this revision. The word "men" was removed from the Creed (For us "men" and for our salvation...).  And the phrase "Who loves mankind" was changed to "Who loves us all".  This was done so as not to offend women, but every Byzantine Catholic woman that I knew (including my wife) was offended by the gender neutral language.

When political correctness and secular humanism is allowed to revise the Liturgy, the door is opened for further abuses.

The Liturgy is suppose to change the world--not the other way around.

Thank you for listening to my rant.  Undecided

But, that's not an alteration of the Liturgy - but of the translations of the texts of the Liturgy.

Yeah, like that other "translation issue," filioque.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2008, 10:20:02 AM by ialmisry » Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
NorthernPines
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOA
Posts: 934



« Reply #31 on: December 07, 2008, 12:57:43 PM »

Here is a question for the Orthodox posters:

If you could take one hymn or chant from the treasury of Latin Catholic sacred music and use it in the Divine Liturgy at your church ... which one would it be?

Well since Christmas is on my mind, Adeste Fideles, O Come all ye faithful
without a doubt! Smiley It is my favorite Christmas Carol/Hymn, and while I do sing it 100's of times at home every year, and our choir does do some Christmas carols AFTER Liturgy, I would love to be able to sing this DURING Liturgy. Oh yes, and O Come O Come Emanuel, which I read actually was written pre-schism somewhere....those 2 are my favorite Nativity Hymns and it would be really nice to hear them during Liturgy or other services. Can't really think of any others. While I personally love western Sacred Music, especially Gregorian Chant, these are the only 2 that I always want to sing during Liturgy. All the rest I'm satisified listening/singing privately.

Good fun question, hope no one minds me interjecting my thoughts. Smiley


Logged
username!
Moderator
Protokentarchos
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Ukrainian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Pennsylvaniadoxy
Posts: 5,068



« Reply #32 on: December 07, 2008, 05:39:59 PM »

Bad Church music is one of the reasons I often find myself attending the local Byzantine Catholic Church.

And you may not realize but the text AND the music were all changed in the Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic organization oh, what, starting maybe two years ago.  If you knew the music BEFORE the change and heard the music and the lyrics AFTER the change you would say, "Yikes."
Logged

Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.122 seconds with 62 queries.