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lubeltri
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« on: June 16, 2008, 12:28:36 AM » |
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Wow. What an imprudent time to do something so provocative and divisive, on the eve of the Lambeth Conference. Male priests marry in Anglican church's first gay 'wedding' By Jonathan Wynne-Jones, Religious Affairs Correspondent http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2130668/Male-priests-marry-in-Anglican-church's-first-gay-'wedding'.htmlAn Anglican church has held a homosexual "wedding" for the first time in a move that will deepen the rift between liberals and traditionalists, The Sunday Telegraph can disclose. Two male priests exchanged vows and rings in a ceremony that was conducted using one of the church's most traditional wedding rites – a decision seen as blasphemous by conservatives. The ceremony broke Church of England guidelines and was carried out last month in defiance of the Bishop of London, in whose diocese it took place. News of the "wedding" emerged days before a crucial summit of the Anglican Church's conservative bishops and archbishops, who are threatening to split the worldwide Church over the issue of homosexual clergy. Although some liberal clergy have carried out "blessing ceremonies" for homosexual couples in the past, this is the first time a vicar has performed a "wedding ceremony", using a traditional marriage liturgy, with readings, hymns and a Eucharist. Both the conservative and liberal wings of the Anglican communion expressed shock last night. The Most Rev Henry Orombi, the Archbishop of Uganda, said that the ceremony was "blasphemous." He called on Dr Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury, to take decisive action if the Anglican Church were not to "disintegrate". Archbishop Orombi added: "What really shocks me is that this is happening in the Church of England that first brought the Gospel to us. "The leadership tried to deny that this would happen, but now the truth is out. Our respect for the Church of England will erode unless we see a return to traditional teaching." .... The service was held at St Bartholomew the Great in London – one of England's oldest churches, which featured in Four Weddings and a Funeral – and was conducted by the parish rector, the Rev Martin Dudley. The couple, the Rev Peter Cowell, who is a cleric at one of the Queen's churches, and the Rev Dr David Lord, had registered their civil partnership before the ceremony. Mr Dudley opened the service by saying: "Dearly beloved, we are gathered together here in the sight of God to join these men in a holy covenant of love and fidelity. Such a covenant shows us the mystery of the union between God and God's people and between Christ and the Church." In the vows, Mr Cowell and Dr Lord pledged to "hold from this day forward, for better for worse, for richer for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, till death us do part". Mr Dudley blessed the union with the words: "As David and Jonathan's souls were knit together, so these men may surely perform and keep the vow and covenant betwixt them made." (continued) |
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SolEX01
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« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2008, 12:43:55 AM » |
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^ Henry VIII never saw this day coming when he broke away from the Pope....
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Veniamin
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« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2008, 06:30:48 AM » |
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^ Henry VIII never saw this day coming when he broke away from the Pope....
And that has what to do with the price of tea in China? |
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Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl. ~Frederick the Great
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Myrrh23
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« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2008, 07:00:22 AM » |
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And that has what to do with the price of tea in China? That big hat the Pope wears? I swear I saw a tea bag label poking out from underneath! Could have been a pricetag, though, so....  |
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*I am no longer posting on OC.net*
We all have a Black Dog and a White Dog inside of us. The One you feed the most eventually eats the Other.
All are tempted, but it is the courageous person who clings to God during the storm. For the Ego is a prison, but Christ is the Liberator
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SolEX01
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« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2008, 11:51:55 AM » |
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And that has what to do with the price of tea in China? The British East India Tea Company was dissolved in 1858.  |
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_Seraphim_
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« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2008, 06:58:57 PM » |
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So, does the entire Anglican church now condone homosexual marriage?... or is it just a certain liberal group?  |
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"Disputes merely about words must not be suffered to divide those who think alike." -St. Athanasius (†444)Pray for Orthodox Unity"Behold the light of our Agreed Statement on Christology" http://www.orthodoxunity.org/state04.html |
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ytterbiumanalyst
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« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2008, 07:47:37 PM » |
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You know, if you'd read the article, you would know the answer to that question: The ceremony broke Church of England guidelines and was carried out last month in defiance of the Bishop of London, in whose diocese it took place. News of the "wedding" emerged days before a crucial summit of the Anglican Church's conservative bishops and archbishops, who are threatening to split the worldwide Church over the issue of homosexual clergy. I don't see how they could have made it clearer. |
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« Last Edit: June 16, 2008, 07:48:41 PM by ytterbiumanalyst »
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"It is remarkable that what we call the world...in what professes to be true...will allow in one man no blemishes, and in another no virtue."--Charles Dickens
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Veniamin
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« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2008, 07:47:54 PM » |
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So, does the entire Anglican church now condone homosexual marriage?... or is it just a certain liberal group? Why the obsession with the subject? |
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Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl. ~Frederick the Great
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Myrrh23
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« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2008, 07:53:21 PM » |
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Why the obsession with the subject?  |
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*I am no longer posting on OC.net*
We all have a Black Dog and a White Dog inside of us. The One you feed the most eventually eats the Other.
All are tempted, but it is the courageous person who clings to God during the storm. For the Ego is a prison, but Christ is the Liberator
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observer
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« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2008, 07:59:49 PM » |
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The Rev Cowell will probably get a (k) ::)nighthood......
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Thou shalt not prefer one thing to another (Law of Liberalism)
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_Seraphim_
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« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2008, 08:10:33 PM » |
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You know, if you'd read the article, you would know the answer to that question:
I don't see how they could have made it clearer.
I think we could do without the sarcasm... I wasn't clear on whether the confrontation was between the Anglican and RC church, or a division within the Anglican church itself. I'm not really aware of anything to do with either churches so I was simply asking for clarification because I don't know what bishops of what churches this article is referring to... a simple quote and purely factual comment would have sufficed. |
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"Disputes merely about words must not be suffered to divide those who think alike." -St. Athanasius (†444)Pray for Orthodox Unity"Behold the light of our Agreed Statement on Christology" http://www.orthodoxunity.org/state04.html |
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_Seraphim_
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« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2008, 08:11:19 PM » |
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Why the obsession with the subject?
I posted one time......... "obsession"? |
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"Disputes merely about words must not be suffered to divide those who think alike." -St. Athanasius (†444)Pray for Orthodox Unity"Behold the light of our Agreed Statement on Christology" http://www.orthodoxunity.org/state04.html |
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Justin Kissel
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« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2008, 08:13:07 PM » |
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_Seraphim_ I posted one time......... "obsession"? Even though they quoted you, they were probably referring to the board in general, as this topic (ie. homosexuality) comes up quite often. |
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« Last Edit: June 16, 2008, 08:14:45 PM by Asteriktos »
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ytterbiumanalyst
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« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2008, 08:17:45 PM » |
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I think we could do without the sarcasm... I wasn't clear on whether the confrontation was between the Anglican and RC church, or a division within the Anglican church itself. I'm not really aware of anything to do with either churches so I was simply asking for clarification because I don't know what bishops of what churches this article is referring to... a simple quote and purely factual comment would have sufficed.
I apologize for offending you; I thought it was painfully obvious. It just seemed odd that there might be confusion over which religion this bishop belonged to. After all, how exactly could a Catholic bishop have jurisdiction over the wedding of two Anglicans by an Anglican priest in an Anglican church? An Anglican church has held a homosexual "wedding" for the first time...
The ceremony broke Church of England guidelines and was carried out last month in defiance of the Bishop of London, in whose diocese it took place....
The service was held at St Bartholomew the Great in London – one of England's oldest churches, which featured in Four Weddings and a Funeral – and was conducted by the parish rector, the Rev Martin Dudley.
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"It is remarkable that what we call the world...in what professes to be true...will allow in one man no blemishes, and in another no virtue."--Charles Dickens
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Ebor
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« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2008, 08:47:25 PM » |
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No, the entire Anglican Communion does not 'condone homosexual marriage'. This was three people doing something on their own and note the article "in defiance of the Bishop of London".
That would be the Church of England Bishop of London, Richard John Carew Chartres, the 132nd Bishop of London, who has held that see since 1996. According to the news and "Titus One Nine", a blog/news site run by the Rev. Kendall S. Harmon, Bishop Chartres as said there will be an investigation, David Lord has resigned his clergy license and returned to his home country of New Zealand with Rev. Cowan to follow. The Rector of St. Bartholemew the Great has been controversial in the past.
Ebor
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"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis
The Katana of Reasoned Discussion
For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.
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Ebor
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« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2008, 08:48:31 PM » |
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_Seraphim_
Even though they quoted you, they were probably referring to the board in general, as this topic (ie. homosexuality) comes up quite often.
Sometimes it feels like there's a bit of an "obsession" with pointing out problems that Anglicans are having.  Ebor |
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"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis
The Katana of Reasoned Discussion
For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.
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Myrrh23
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« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2008, 09:13:45 PM » |
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I personally was referring to the board in general. Meant no offense, love, only playfulness.  |
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*I am no longer posting on OC.net*
We all have a Black Dog and a White Dog inside of us. The One you feed the most eventually eats the Other.
All are tempted, but it is the courageous person who clings to God during the storm. For the Ego is a prison, but Christ is the Liberator
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prodromas
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« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2008, 10:26:08 PM » |
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Sometimes it feels like there's a bit of an "obsession" with pointing out problems that Anglicans are having. Ebor Ebor are there any rules about clergy (heterosexual) marrying in the first place? Are clergy allowed to marry once they take up the sacramental preisthood? |
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The sins I don't commit are largely due to the weakness of my limbs.
1915-1923 Հայոց Ցեղասպանութիւն ,never again,
ܩܛܠܐ ܕܥܡܐ ܐܬܘܪܝܐ 1920-1914, never again,
השואה 1933-1945, never again,
(1914-1923) Ελληνική Γενοκτονία, never again
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Heracleides
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Kona-Kai
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« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2008, 11:25:31 PM » |
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Sometimes it feels like there's a bit of an "obsession" with pointing out problems that Anglicans are having. Ebor Perhaps if they didn't make it so easy to do so... . |
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"And having found Heracleides there again, we instructed him to proclaim the Gospel of God..." ~Acts of Barnabas
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prodromas
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« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2008, 11:31:29 PM » |
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Perhaps if they didn't make it so easy to do so... Heracleides I know your joking but it is a problem here. Our Anglican brothers and sisters are being represented by these extreme liberal positions and the media states it as the norm. This is show that every time Easter or Christmas rolls around they always try to find some nut case Anglican or Episcopal priest to interview about how they don't believe in the resurrection or the virgin birth or even God sometimes. This is not the norm the same as when the Orthodox get some schismatic ultra traditionalist monk on Mount Athos with his own group of followers or when we see these liturgical abuses in the Roman Catholic church and suppose that this is the norm when reality is far from it. Lay off the Anglicans and Episcopalians guys. |
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The sins I don't commit are largely due to the weakness of my limbs.
1915-1923 Հայոց Ցեղասպանութիւն ,never again,
ܩܛܠܐ ܕܥܡܐ ܐܬܘܪܝܐ 1920-1914, never again,
השואה 1933-1945, never again,
(1914-1923) Ελληνική Γενοκτονία, never again
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lubeltri
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« Reply #20 on: June 16, 2008, 11:35:44 PM » |
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Ebor are there any rules about clergy (heterosexual) marrying in the first place? Are clergy allowed to marry once they take up the sacramental preisthood?
Yes, Anglican clergy can marry after ordination. Of course, as Ebor points out, that doesn't include so-called "gay marriage." The significance of the article is that in the past, some CoE priests have presided over "blessing ceremonies" between same-sex couples (not officially approved---bishops look the other way). This new incident was noteworthy for using the Book of Common Prayer language and rubrics for an actual marriage and for involving the "marriage" of two male Anglican clerics. It is also noteworthy for occurring shortly before the Lambeth Conference (and the "shadow" Lambeth in Jordan of conservative bishops boycotting Lambeth) at which the Issue is to be resolved (please God!). The only officially approved Anglican same-sex blessing ceremonies are in the diocese of New Westminster in the Anglican Church of Canada. |
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« Last Edit: June 16, 2008, 11:38:56 PM by lubeltri »
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GiC
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« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2008, 12:41:19 AM » |
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_Seraphim_
Even though they quoted you, they were probably referring to the board in general, as this topic (ie. homosexuality) comes up quite often.
Considering his posting history on this subject, I seriously doubt it. My only response to his feigned shock is  |
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"The liberties of people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." -- Patrick Henry
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_Seraphim_
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« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2008, 11:19:18 AM » |
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Considering his posting history on this subject, I seriously doubt it. My only response to his feigned shock is Perhaps you'd like to review my 300+ posts on this forum and see just how many have ANYthing to do with homosexuality (just to save you time... there's less than a handful) mellow out, man  |
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"Disputes merely about words must not be suffered to divide those who think alike." -St. Athanasius (†444)Pray for Orthodox Unity"Behold the light of our Agreed Statement on Christology" http://www.orthodoxunity.org/state04.html |
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GiC
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« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2008, 05:19:23 PM » |
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Perhaps you'd like to review my 300+ posts on this forum and see just how many have ANYthing to do with homosexuality (just to save you time... there's less than a handful) mellow out, man It's not the number, but rather utter absurdity, of past posts I was commenting on, like this one: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,16012.msg228670.html#msg228670I mean, give me a break. |
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"The liberties of people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." -- Patrick Henry
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Simayan
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« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2008, 05:27:39 PM » |
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Someone really needs to reopen that thread. It died just when it was getting fun.  |
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"He will wipe every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death, nor mourning nor crying nor suffering, for the old order of things has passed away."
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ozgeorge
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« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2008, 07:36:33 PM » |
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ROFL! |
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If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
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Riddikulus
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« Reply #26 on: June 17, 2008, 07:40:28 PM » |
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^^LOL - how did I miss that! (As an aside, I quite liked that remake of the Invasion of the Body-snatchers.)
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I believe in One God, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.
Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
Theodosius Dobzhansky, Russian Orthodox Christian (1900-1975)
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GiC
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« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2008, 11:08:49 PM » |
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Someone really needs to reopen that thread. It died just when it was getting fun. I agree, I mean what's up, locking a relatively civil (for the subject) thread in the private unmoderated forum without an explanation? |
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"The liberties of people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." -- Patrick Henry
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Αριστοκλής
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« Reply #28 on: June 18, 2008, 04:21:26 AM » |
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I agree, I mean what's up, locking a relatively civil (for the subject) thread in the private unmoderated forum without an explanation?
The one that's still under "review"? |
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"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides
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theistgal
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don't even go there!
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« Reply #29 on: June 18, 2008, 03:59:56 PM » |
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Um, getting back to the topic ... This morning's newspaper (the Los Angeles Daily News) had an ad for the "99 Cents Only Store" stating that their "Bridal Registry" is open to Brides & Grooms, Brides & Brides, and Grooms & Grooms! |
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"Sometimes, you just gotta say, 'OK, I still have nine live, two-headed animals' and move on.'' (owner of Coney Island freak show, upon learning he'd been outbid on a 5-legged puppy)
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ozgeorge
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« Reply #30 on: June 18, 2008, 05:37:32 PM » |
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^Disgusting.
How much lower can anyone go than to register at a 99 cent store?
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If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
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theistgal
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don't even go there!
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« Reply #31 on: June 18, 2008, 07:02:02 PM » |
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^Disgusting.
How much lower can anyone go than to register at a 99 cent store?
LOL! Well, there's always the "98 Cents +" store down the street! |
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"Sometimes, you just gotta say, 'OK, I still have nine live, two-headed animals' and move on.'' (owner of Coney Island freak show, upon learning he'd been outbid on a 5-legged puppy)
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Veniamin
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« Reply #32 on: June 18, 2008, 07:11:02 PM » |
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^Disgusting.
How much lower can anyone go than to register at a 99 cent store?
Wal-Mart |
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Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl. ~Frederick the Great
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ozgeorge
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« Reply #33 on: June 18, 2008, 07:14:56 PM » |
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LOL This reminds me of a public art experiment where some guys put a "99c Only Opening Soon" sign on a vacant shop next to the Dior Store in Beverly Hills. Check out the people's reactions in the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMiwbd_EjWE |
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« Last Edit: June 18, 2008, 07:16:16 PM by ozgeorge »
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If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
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ytterbiumanalyst
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« Reply #34 on: June 18, 2008, 07:25:04 PM » |
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^ Hilarious.
Confirms my suspicion that California is actually populated by space aliens.
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"It is remarkable that what we call the world...in what professes to be true...will allow in one man no blemishes, and in another no virtue."--Charles Dickens
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Papist
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« Reply #35 on: June 18, 2008, 07:26:01 PM » |
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Maybe the biggest concern should be the obvious age difference. Look at these pictures. Some one is robbing the craddle. |
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You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.
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ozgeorge
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« Reply #36 on: June 18, 2008, 07:41:52 PM » |
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^I'm starting a book:
it will last 6 months: 3:1
it will last 12 months: 10:1
it will last 3 years: 50:1
it will last a lifetime: ∞:1
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If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
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Simayan
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« Reply #37 on: June 18, 2008, 08:07:26 PM » |
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Maybe the biggest concern should be the obvious age difference. Look at these pictures. Some one is robbing the craddle.
LOL! |
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"He will wipe every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death, nor mourning nor crying nor suffering, for the old order of things has passed away."
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Rosehip
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« Reply #38 on: June 18, 2008, 08:34:03 PM » |
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Maybe the biggest concern should be the obvious age difference. Look at these pictures. Some one is robbing the craddle.
My own initial thoughts exactly!  |
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+ Our dear sister Martha (Rosehip) passed away on Dec 20, 2010. May her memory be eternal! +
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Ebor
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« Reply #39 on: June 18, 2008, 08:48:47 PM » |
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^Disgusting.
How much lower can anyone go than to register at a 99 cent store?
This was a "Good thing I wasn't taking a sip of coffee when I read it" post. |
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"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis
The Katana of Reasoned Discussion
For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.
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Myrrh23
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« Reply #40 on: June 18, 2008, 08:57:28 PM » |
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You know how some couples have to do something "unique" like marry in a giant fish tank or while wearing medieval clothing? Maybe one of these priests will be the officiating priest at his own wedding.... the second time around, since they're both already 'married'.
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« Last Edit: June 18, 2008, 08:59:00 PM by Myrrh23 »
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*I am no longer posting on OC.net*
We all have a Black Dog and a White Dog inside of us. The One you feed the most eventually eats the Other.
All are tempted, but it is the courageous person who clings to God during the storm. For the Ego is a prison, but Christ is the Liberator
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Simayan
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« Reply #41 on: June 18, 2008, 09:12:13 PM » |
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*Shuffles up to altar*
"Do I take myself to be your husband?"
*Shuffles back to left*
"I do!"
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"He will wipe every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death, nor mourning nor crying nor suffering, for the old order of things has passed away."
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Salpy
Section Moderator
Toumarches
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Faith: Oriental Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Armenian Church
Posts: 12,999
Pray for the Christians of Iraq and Syria.
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« Reply #42 on: June 19, 2008, 01:52:16 AM » |
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^Disgusting.
How much lower can anyone go than to register at a 99 cent store?
The 99 cent store near my house is amazing! You can find the greatest stuff there, not to mention really good food, and everything only costs 99 cents! And no one speaks English, not even the clerks. You have to speak either Armenian or Spanish to buy anything. I've always jokingly told people that if I were to ever marry, I'd register there. I didn't think they actually had a registry, though. Wow. Beats Macy's. |
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Αριστοκλής
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« Reply #43 on: June 19, 2008, 03:51:25 AM » |
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^I'm starting a book:
it will last 6 months: 3:1
it will last 12 months: 10:1
it will last 3 years: 50:1
it will last a lifetime: ∞:1
"Last"? What means "last"? What's there to "last"? Nothing. |
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"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides
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Myrrh23
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« Reply #44 on: June 19, 2008, 04:36:36 AM » |
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This reminds me of a public art experiment where some guys put a "99c Only Opening Soon" sign on a vacant shop next to the Dior Store in Beverly Hills. What fun it would be to get a group together, go into the Dior store, shop around for a while and then finally ask, "Is this part of the 99 cent store?" at random time intervals!  |
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*I am no longer posting on OC.net*
We all have a Black Dog and a White Dog inside of us. The One you feed the most eventually eats the Other.
All are tempted, but it is the courageous person who clings to God during the storm. For the Ego is a prison, but Christ is the Liberator
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