QUOTE: Leave that to the Archons of the EP who like to write letters to Condoleeza Rice every time they are subjected to Turkish security checks before entering the Phanar. That issue is political and is being dealt with under existing Treaties and International Law. If and when Turkey joins the EU, maybe some of these problems are resolved and others will pop up in their place.
It would be swell to leave it to the Archons of the EP; unfortunately, the Patriarchate of Constantinople has seen fit to do otherwise-that is, put the Orthodox Faith on the "line" as a means of hoping to gain allies against the Turkish government. If you are in the news as the "leader of the world's xxx-million Orthodox Christians,"and courtin' the Pope a couple times a year...how can they (the world) ignore you? And you want to trust in international treaties? International Treaties like the one dealing with Mount Athos? That treaty doesn't mention the Patriarchate of Constantinople ordering in the troops on Mount Athos block mail deliveries and food deliveries and eventually to throw out a few monks who they don't like....
QUOTE: They are not heretics because they use different language to imply the same thing. Significant time is required if and when OO's return to the EO fold. The OO's did not establish a secular state like the Vatican nor have they bothered anyone of significance.
Ok, let me ask the question yet again-this is one of those questions that somehow are always conveniently totally ignored when asked-exactly what, then do you call someone or some institution that completely rejects all but the first three ecumenical councils? Orthodox? I don't think so! And they do not use "different language" for this rejection-it has been stated plainly...and you said it yourself- "if and when the OO's return to the EO fold." They are out of "the fold?" That kind of says it all, doesn't it?
QUOTE: OK, I'll repeat my question (to the same probable non-answers) in that how do your Jurisdictions maintain the Orthodox Church as the True Church of Christ when the other 15 autocephalous Orthodox Churches have apostasized from your respective points of view?
"To the same non-answers"? That's odd-it seems I posted something that asked question, and you are the one with the "non-answers"! And, I dont think you read what I wrote-did I say anything at all about having more than one jursidiction ("your jurisdictions")? No. Did I say all 15, or actually, ANY of the Autocphalous Churches have apostasized? No. And here we go again with the "your"-"your respective points of view"? Sir, you have no idea what MY point of view is, for one thing; for another, what is with the plural? What "respective points of view" are you talking about? You lost me, I must confess.
The question here was "What warrants believers creating there own Jurisdiction?" If you want to look back on my original post, or possibly you can trust me to copy it accurately-I wrote:
"Many people feel that the EP is indeed "teaching heresy barehaded in the Church" by its continual ecumenist pronouncements, activities, etc."
So, what does that say? Does that say "I feel...." or does that say "Many people feel..."? Perhpas you can explain to me the difference between the meaning of "I feel . . . ," and "Many people feel . . . ," and then explain how the differences in meaning pertain to my post and your reply.
I also wrote: "Also, many people feel the same about the activities of the Patriarchate of Antioch with the Oriental Orthodox Syrian church..."
Do I need to repeat the above, or do you catch my drift?
I also wrote: ". . . it all amounts to the same thing-denying the unique position of the Orthodox Church as the True Church of Christ."
Now-this is something else you conveniently did not address. When the Ecumenical Patriarch states that Rome is "the other lung of the Church of Christ," or that Rome is "our sister Church" (especially when the words "sister Church" in the Orthodox context have clearly ALWAYS meant nothing more or less than ANOTHER Orthodox Church...), do you feel that these words uphold or deny the unique position of the Orthodox Church as the Church of Christ? Or do you possibly feel they are neutral?
A bit more about the OO's-first, let me introduce Nikos Nissiotis: "To my knowledge, Athenagoras Kokkinakis and Nissiotis were the masterminds of the Orthodox Churchs new type of involvement in the Ecumenical Movement that was inaugurated in 1963 by Patriarch Athenagoras." (words of Constantine Cavarnos, in "Orthodox Ecumenism as a Divisive Force," http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/divisiveforce.aspx
) Now to proceed with some info about the OO's: "The six Oriental Orthodox churches -- Coptic, Syrian, Armenian, Ethiopian, Eritrean and the (Indian) Malankara -- are in communion with each other and are also called ancient Oriental, lesser Eastern, and pre- or ante-Chalcedonian churches. They are the churches of the first three ecumenical councils (Nicea, Constantinople and Ephesus) and do not accept Chalcedon (451). At the New Delhi WCC meeting, Mr. Nissiotis, speaking on the situation of the OO's, stated that: "once there is a schism, both parties are in schism." The article about the OO's that these quotes come from goes on to explain the manner in which the "misunderstanding" between the EO's and OO's came about: "Whenever the paradoxical mystery of Christology and Trinity could not be fully appreciated, rationalism erected narrow domestic walls." If Mr. Nissotis (in his lifetime a highly placed Theologian of the Patriarchate of Constantinople and director of the WCC's Ecumenical Institute in Bossey, Switzerland) is correct, this seemingly would also pertain to the situation concerning the EP and the Old Calendarists, corerect? Just asking . . . also, the following statement (beginning "Whenever the paradoxical mystery...") basically tells us that the Fathers of the Council of Chalcedon were not Holy Fathers guided by the Holy Spirit, but affected by worldly rationalism and "narrow" thought. And, apparently, the participants in the WCC meeting in New Delhi, in the midst of the 20th century, were apparently wiser, more thoughtful, and better equipped than the Holy Fathers of the Council of Chalcedon to bring about a to bring about a solution to the EO - OO "differences." So-do you subscribe to such "solutions" as propagated by the leading lights of the Patriarchate of Constantinople? That the Holy Fathers of the Council of Chlcedon were in error? And only "we," in the 20th century, in the WCC, can now "fix it?" And, perhpas you can tell me how these statements about the situation reflect the unique position of the Orthodox Church as THE Church of Christ-; the statements, made and endorsed by representatives of the Patriarchate of Constantinople, are quote old, but, I am sure they are still adhered to, as since then, "Greek Orthodox Ecumenists, most notably the Patriarchs of Constantinople Demetrios and Bartholomew, have been following the directives conceived by Kokkinakis and Nissiotis, and executed by Patriarch Athenagoras." (http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/divisiveforce.aspx
) Other than the above quote attributed to orthodoxinfo.com., the rest of the quotes in the above paragraph are from: "Oriental Orthodox Churches," an "entry on Oriental Orthodox Churches from the Dictionary of the Ecumenical Movement published jointly by the World Council of Churches and the Wm. Eerdmans in 1991." The article is further explained thus: "This entry on Oriental Orthodox Churches was written by Geevarghese Mar Osthathios and appears in the Dictionary of the Ecumenical Movement edited by Nicholas Lossky, José Míguez Bonino, John Pobee, Tom Stransky, Geoffrey Wainwright and Pauline Webb. The volume was published by WCC Publications (Geneva) and Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company (Grand Rapids, MI) in 1991. The Dictionary is presently being revised and a second edition is forthcoming."
Or, perhaps I am simply wasting my time attempting to explain anything to you, because you perhaps do not agree that the Orthodox Church is Unique as THE Church of Christ, and you go along with all this sort of thing as quoted above.