Topic: A Question for Eastern and Oriental Catholics.

[Peter J]

I think I'm understanding you a little more here, what you are saying is that the Exarchate in Greece has a small presence and the websites don't match what's really going on at the street level. 

username!,

It is well known fact that out of [Roman] Catholics in Greece, only a small fraction of them are ECs. It really doesn't make any sense to try to parade that fact around as if it proves some point.

In fact outside of these forums (and some priests) i have never met a greek who has ever heard of the existence of a "byzantine rite catholic' church and usually think im making it all up.

I can do you one better: there are tons of Catholics out there who don't know that ECs exist. So what's your point?

[ozgeorge]

I can do you one better: there are tons of Catholics out there who don't know that ECs exist. So what's your point?

Actually, I think he was just stating a fact. Most Greeks don't know that there are Catholic Greeks. I only know about them because my Mother lived on the Island of Symi for a while, and there was a Catholic Church there.
I guess it's like the fact that there are Orthodox Christian Italians in Italy- most Italians don't know they exist.

[Anastasios]

correct, a very very small prescense, slim to none. To give you an example i have met greeks (born and raised in Greece) who are Jehovahs Witness, one who  has converted to Islam, some in the diaspora who are protestant, yet in my entire life never ever came across a greek who was in the unia. In fact outside of these forums (and some priests) i have never met a greek who has ever heard of the existence of a "byzantine rite catholic' church and usually think im making it all up. My cousins, and uncles and aunts who reside in Athens have never heard of them.  All my family in this country has never heard of them( who are mostly immigrants), and when i brought the, up they thought i was fabricating the existence of these churches. Of course many greeks and probably greeks from this very forum can vouch that they have definately heard of greeks that are Jehovahs witness but highly doubt they have come across ones that are byzantine rite catholics.

I can corroborate what you are saying. I have never met a Greek who knew what Byzantine Catholics are.

I believe the term Uniate is appropriate as a descriptor and Byzantine Catholics are not usually offended by being labeled as "in union" because that is the whole purpose of their Church--in fact, they often use the term Uniate in historical documents and refer to "the Unia." But in America there is a cultural connotation to the term and that is what people find offensive because it is used as a way to be mean-spirited. Since on a forum it is hard to tell what the intent is often, we simply don't allow the term since it can be equally expressed by Eastern Rite Catholic. That doesn't mean we accept their Church.

[Αριστοκλής]

...or when the term Eastern Rite Catholic includes churches never in any 'Unia'.

[Jimmy]

The funny thing is that I never found the term really that offensive until reading Buzuxi's posts on this thread.  He is pretty offensive with his attitude and he seems to think he has a right to be offensive.

[Jimmy]

Actually, I think he was just stating a fact. Most Greeks don't know that there are Catholic Greeks. I only know about them because my Mother lived on the Island of Symi for a while, and there was a Catholic Church there.
I guess it's like the fact that there are Orthodox Christian Italians in Italy- most Italians don't know they exist.

Yes and we can see the fact of the Orthodox Christian Italians by the fact of the old poster from the CA forums, padre ambrogio who was an Italian Orthodox heiromonk.

[the slave]

Yes and we can see the fact of the Orthodox Christian Italians by the fact of the old poster from the CA forums, padre ambrogio who was an Italian Orthodox heiromonk.

Waddya mean WAS ??

Fr Ambrose heard from him recently I understand

[Jimmy]

Waddya mean WAS ??

Fr Ambrose heard from him recently I understand

I mean simply that I haven't seen him on either this forum or the CA forums or any other forums in a long time.  That is all I mean.  He hasn't been here so I used the past tense.

[username!]

username!,

It is well known fact that out of [Roman] Catholics in Greece, only a small fraction of them are ECs. It really doesn't make any sense to try to parade that fact around as if it proves some point.

I can do you one better: there are tons of Catholics out there who don't know that ECs exist. So what's your point?

that's a parade.  I was merely trying to show facts in the midst of a path of assumption and generalizations towards the religious affiliations and adjectives attached to them.

[Irish Melkite]

I had hoped to avoid getting into this brouhaha, but the more that I read, the more that I feel compelled to put in my two cents - which I'll do tonight.

Meanwhile, the short version is - I don't find the term Uniate offensive. What I do find offensive is rabid ranting that decries reality. Like it or not - there are ethnic Greek Catholics who worship according to the Byzantine Rite, few in number, but they exist.  There are also Catholic Greeks - Latin Catholics who are ethnic Greeks, similarly few in number, but they exist too.

As to the use of the terminology in regards to other Eastern Catholics, not of the Byzantine Greek Catholic Church, it is of relatively recent origin, having tended to replace the usage "Byzantine" and used in its hyphenated form (Greek-Catholic), which it how it should appear, it's neither intended to be offensive nor should it be seen as an effort to lay claim to ethnicity and it sure as heck isn't going to fool anyone into thinking that the vast majority of us are Greek.

Frankly, the longer I consider it, the more I doubt the usefulness of this thread as the level of invective has effectively subjugated the question first posed.

Many years,

Neil

[Peter J]

buzuxi and username!,

that's a parade.

My father was a stern man. He forbad us to participate in any activities that he thought were associated with the common man. The Thanksgiving Day Parade was first on the list. (Sorry. Couldn't resist. )

Yes, that is a parade. But I think it's also fair to say that buzuxi has been parading something around in his last several posts.

[Apotheoun]

I do not think of myself as a "uniate," but I am not particularly offended by the use of the term, i.e., unless it is being used specifically as a put-down.

[Lemko Rusyn]

I believe the term Uniate is appropriate as a descriptor and Byzantine Catholics are not usually offended by being labeled as "in union" because that is the whole purpose of their Church

Father Deacon,

I beg to differ as to what the "whole purpose" of the so-called Uniate churches is. I would say that it is to manifest the Body of Christ and His Kingdom on earth and to save souls.

That's part of the problem of the term "Uniate" by itself as a descriptor and as a noun referring to groups of Christian people--it reduces their identity to the fact that they are in union with someone (aren't we all?), and it ostensibly denies their identity as Christians and (depending on your perspective) as Churches.

Now, I doubt that is your intent in trying to justify use of the term elsewhere, but even with your perspective that

That doesn't mean we accept their Church.

I would hope that you would grant that Uniates are something more than just "people in union"; perhaps, just perhaps, they are well-intentioned sincere Christians (or Catholics, if you would go so far as to grant us that).

[Irish Hermit]

Yes and we can see the fact of the Orthodox Christian Italians by the fact of the old poster from the CA forums, padre ambrogio who was an Italian Orthodox heiromonk.

*
Father Ambrose of Turin has made some posts on OC.net.  Here is his Profile page

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1397

http://www.ortodossia.org/sanmassimo

[Αριστοκλής]

Thanks!

I see we can view a photo of Padre Ambrogio (with a cat) among in photo gallery -second one in the first gallery. Perhaps in the second set as well (without kitty).