Author Topic: Question about pre-baptismal custom  (Read 1902 times)

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Offline Rosehip

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Question about pre-baptismal custom
« on: June 04, 2008, 11:09:46 PM »
If I understand correctly, it is the custom to protect an infant from the human gaze until his/her baptism. What are the origins of this custom?
+ Our dear sister Martha (Rosehip) passed away on Dec 20, 2010.  May her memory be eternal! +

Offline SolEX01

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Re: Question about pre-baptismal custom
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2008, 11:16:46 PM »
^The "evil eye" of Greek (and other cultures) Superstition.  There are amulets with an image of an eye designed to protect anyone from a suspicious stare.

The custom likely comes from the high infant mortality of the past and a stare was considered to be a jinx which could result in an early demise.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Question about pre-baptismal custom
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2008, 11:22:36 PM »
If I understand correctly, it is the custom to protect an infant from the human gaze until his/her baptism. What are the origins of this custom?
The custom where?  I've not heard of this custom.  I'm sure it's practiced somewhere, just not where I would have been exposed to it.
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Offline Rosehip

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Re: Question about pre-baptismal custom
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2008, 11:24:09 PM »
 Truly, I wondered if this wasn't what was behind it all. It seems to me this is not about putting our trust in God's protecting care.

Due to medical advances the situation is quite different in our time, so is it really necessary to continue  on in this superstition?  I was completely dumb-founded to learn people still had such notions, and felt very awkward about it all. Why hasn't this custom been maintained in the western world?

Are we obliged as western converts to maintain this custom? Forgive the many questions.
+ Our dear sister Martha (Rosehip) passed away on Dec 20, 2010.  May her memory be eternal! +

Offline Rosehip

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Re: Question about pre-baptismal custom
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2008, 11:28:35 PM »
The custom where?  I've not heard of this custom.  I'm sure it's practiced somewhere, just not where I would have been exposed to it.

I'm sorry, Peter, our posts over-lapped. I attend a Russian parish and this seems to be the custom amongst all the young Russian couples I know. Very perplexing for me at first.
+ Our dear sister Martha (Rosehip) passed away on Dec 20, 2010.  May her memory be eternal! +

Offline prodromas

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Re: Question about pre-baptismal custom
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2008, 11:28:41 PM »
Truly, I wondered if this wasn't what was behind it all. It seems to me this is not about putting our trust in God's protecting care.

Due to medical advances the situation is quite different in our time, so is it really necessary to continue  on in this superstition?  I was completely dumb-founded to learn people still had such notions, and felt very awkward about it all. Why hasn't this custom been maintained in the western world?

Are we obliged as western converts to maintain this custom? Forgive the many questions.

It's a silly superstition held on that tries to somehow circumvent God's sovereignty by stating that the devil can somehow kill babies. I absolutely hate the idea of the "evil eye" and those silly blue eye amulets that people carry around like a talisman. It's an insult to God and is nothing more than a belief in magic.
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Offline SolEX01

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Re: Question about pre-baptismal custom
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2008, 11:29:09 PM »
Truly, I wondered if this wasn't what was behind it all. It seems to me this is not about putting our trust in God's protecting care.

The amulet of the eye is supposed to represent the watchful gaze of God.  More Information
 
Due to medical advances the situation is quite different in our time, so is it really necessary to continue  on in this superstition?  I was completely dumb-founded to learn people still had such notions, and felt very awkward about it all. Why hasn't this custom been maintained in the western world?

When immigrants from Greece, Middle East, et al. came to Ellis Island, superstitions came with them.  When men went back to Greece (or elsewhere) to marry, those superstitions came along with the new brides.

Are we obliged as western converts to maintain this custom? Forgive the many questions.

Asking questions is cool.  As to the first past of the question, Absolutely NOT!!!  :)

Edited for clarity.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2008, 11:38:55 PM by SolEX01 »

Offline Basil 320

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Re: Question about pre-baptismal custom
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2008, 11:35:12 PM »
Greeks and Lebanese, Orthodox and Eastern Rite RC's, in my experience, hold to this tradition (real small "t").  Italian RC's, too.
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Offline Rosehip

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Re: Question about pre-baptismal custom
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2008, 11:36:21 PM »
Hmmm....well, MY ancestors certainly didn't bring any such customs over with them...at least not that I know of. It's something very foreign to me. I still think we as Christians should place our trust in God and not need an amulet or any other such object to protect us. But then that's my western heritage speaking, I suppose.
+ Our dear sister Martha (Rosehip) passed away on Dec 20, 2010.  May her memory be eternal! +

Offline Dismas84

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Re: Question about pre-baptismal custom
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2008, 11:52:20 PM »
It's a big Middle Eastern thing, even for Muslims. My dad got me a "Keeper of the Evil Eye" from a Jordanian officer. It's basically a tiny prayer-rug with an evil eye that hung underneath. You put it over your bed like a dreamcatcher, and it keeps evil spirits (or nightmares) away. I used to have it up, but when I returned to Christianity I gave it to a neighbor who collected such things. I now have a crucifix over my bed that lights up.  ;D
« Last Edit: June 04, 2008, 11:53:47 PM by Dismas84 »
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Offline Entscheidungsproblem

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Re: Question about pre-baptismal custom
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2008, 08:00:43 AM »
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,11784.0.html

Here is a thread you should look at too.

It is a VERY common superstition in the Mediterranean region and Eastern Europe.  I'd like to say I don't subscribe to superstitions, but I do have a small cross made of iron in my pocket always.   :P
« Last Edit: June 05, 2008, 08:01:12 AM by Friul »
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Offline Amdetsion

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Re: Question about pre-baptismal custom
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2008, 04:27:35 PM »
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,11784.0.html

 I do have a small cross made of iron in my pocket always. 

Good!

The power of which (if you beleive) is from God who is above which protects you daily.

In The Ethiopian Church 'Anaphora of the Apostles' which we use every Sunday in addition to different Anaphoras depending on the occassion we pray the following:

Sega nesa'ine
wehiywete rekebne behayle
mesqelu le'Eeyesus Kiristos.


Meaning:
We have received grace and we have found
life by the power of the cross of Jesus
Christ.


You have a good practice.

The "evil eye" point is rediculously pagan and blasphemes the true faith in God in the name of Jesus Christ.

People who carry-on with this behavior (as well as those who allow such) need our prayers; since this is not 'holy tradition' but counter-culture. Christ commanded us to be "Holy" in all our ways. The "evil eye" and all its manners is wickedness. Such is a curse and NOT a blessing.

Let us pray over this matter that the Lord has mercy on His people who still need and worship idles inspite of His eternal grace.

Lord have mercy on us all.
"ETHIOPIA shall soon stretch out her hands unto God".....Psalm 68:vs 31

"Are ye not as children of the ETHIOPIANS unto me, O children of Israel"?....Amos 9: vs 7

Offline Entscheidungsproblem

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Re: Question about pre-baptismal custom
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2008, 05:45:42 PM »
Good!

Thanks.  It was actually a gift from my Nonna while I was "between Churches".  Something to protect me from any evil I may face.
As a result of a thousand million years of evolution, the universe is becoming conscious of itself, able to understand something of its past history and its possible future.
-- Sir Julian Sorell Huxley FRS

Offline Amdetsion

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Re: Question about pre-baptismal custom
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2008, 01:14:00 PM »
evil I may face.

If I may humbly add: 'And for protection from and forgiveness of sins I commit against myself and others wittingly and un-wittingly'.

May the Lord keep you and stregnthen you..Amen

Pray daily!
"ETHIOPIA shall soon stretch out her hands unto God".....Psalm 68:vs 31

"Are ye not as children of the ETHIOPIANS unto me, O children of Israel"?....Amos 9: vs 7

Offline Rosehip

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Re: Question about pre-baptismal custom
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2008, 02:32:41 PM »
So what is the correct response if you meet up with someone accidentally and they jerk their baby away from you so you can't see the baby's face?  ???
+ Our dear sister Martha (Rosehip) passed away on Dec 20, 2010.  May her memory be eternal! +

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Question about pre-baptismal custom
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2008, 02:36:04 PM »
"I'm not that ugly!"

I'd just make a joke about it. :)
« Last Edit: June 06, 2008, 02:36:37 PM by Asteriktos »
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Offline jaderook

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Re: Question about pre-baptismal custom
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2008, 03:11:56 PM »
So what is the correct response if you meet up with someone accidentally and they jerk their baby away from you so you can't see the baby's face?  ???

Cross yourself.