Author Topic: Praying during liturgy?  (Read 383 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ai

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 60
Praying during liturgy?
« on: March 03, 2015, 04:40:58 PM »
As I have been attending Divine Liturgy on Sundays, I find myself praying more often and especially during the liturgy. Not out loud of course, but praying in my head. Does that happen to anyone? One of my friends who became Orthodox told me that it was easier for him to say "Lord have mercy" during the liturgy than it was in his former church.
Lord have mercy.
Glory to Jesus Christ forever.
Most Holy Mother of God, save us!

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • The Fourteenth Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs
  • Section Moderator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 20,614
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
Re: Praying during liturgy?
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2015, 05:46:46 PM »
As I have been attending Divine Liturgy on Sundays, I find myself praying more often and especially during the liturgy. Not out loud of course, but praying in my head. Does that happen to anyone? One of my friends who became Orthodox told me that it was easier for him to say "Lord have mercy" during the liturgy than it was in his former church.

Not exactly sure what you have in mind, but I certainly hope we are all praying during the Liturgy.  :)
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

Mor no longer posts on OCNet.  He follows threads, posts his responses daily, occasionally starts threads, and responds to private messages when and as he wants.  But he really isn't around anymore.


Offline CharalambisMakarios

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 104
  • Faith: Protestant Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Considering Orthodoxy
Re: Praying during liturgy?
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2015, 12:15:24 PM »
I think he means personal prayer while the Liturgy is going on. Correct me if I'm wrong.

My two cents is that as long as you're in the presence of God, any expression of worship that doesn't hinder others' experience is valid.

Offline LenInSebastopol

  • Dimly Illumined
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,261
Re: Praying during liturgy?
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2015, 01:55:48 PM »
I agree with the above, however if you can listen to the word read (sung) by the choir that would be better. You can pray on your own anytime but can only be at DL once a week. Of corse that is only my opinion,
Mark 14:36
God is with us, understand O' ye nations, and submit yourselves, for God is with us

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • The Fourteenth Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs
  • Section Moderator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 20,614
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
Re: Praying during liturgy?
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2015, 05:34:27 PM »
I think he means personal prayer while the Liturgy is going on. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I can't correct you on what Ai had in mind, I'll wait for him/her. 

I think I understand what you mean by "personal prayer while the Liturgy is going on", but something about this formulation doesn't sit well with me.  Obviously, it is more proper to come to the church on time and participate attentively in the liturgical services by listening carefully to what needs to be listened to, praying what needs to be prayed, singing what needs to be sung, bowing, crossing oneself, etc. than it is to show up whenever and, paying no heed to the service, "doing your own thing". 

At the same time, attentive participation in the liturgical services will naturally bring certain of our needs to mind.  The litanies will remind us of people and needs to pray for, certain hymns or prayers will remind us of these things, maybe even the saint(s) of the day.  If one takes that opportunity to pray a little more fervently for those people and those needs, I don't think that's necessarily the "careless" type of personal prayer, but rather that's the liturgy doing what it's supposed to do: feeding our personal prayer and spiritual life within the Church and enabling us to exercise the priestly ministry that is proper to all the baptised.  There are even some prayers during some services which presuppose we are offering our own prayers privately along with the liturgical prayer that is going on publicly.  To a certain extent, I would say that closing oneself off to this in order to focus on the rites or the words is also a form of "not participating".

Another issue is that phrase itself: "personal prayer".  We mean something rather limited when we use it, but there is a sense in which all prayer, individual or communal, is "personal", because it is carried out by persons and is itself the manifestation of that relationship we have with God by which we are persons.   
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

Mor no longer posts on OCNet.  He follows threads, posts his responses daily, occasionally starts threads, and responds to private messages when and as he wants.  But he really isn't around anymore.


Offline LenInSebastopol

  • Dimly Illumined
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,261
Re: Praying during liturgy?
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2015, 08:46:30 PM »
Mor, are you cradle?
You already know that Protestants, some, have a spontaneous or extemporaneous prayer life and "feel" it to be the way one prays most all the time. So when one comes into Orthodoxy and finds Prayers for The Sick, and/or someone else's words used in/for every kind of situation then it is normal to wonder 'what is prayer and when do I get to pray for this certain person or  thing"?
Strong emotive response is natural in such. That's all.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2015, 08:46:55 PM by LenInSebastopol »
Mark 14:36
God is with us, understand O' ye nations, and submit yourselves, for God is with us

Offline Peacemaker

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,268
Re: Praying during liturgy?
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2015, 09:10:34 PM »
If you look in the back of the Jordanville prayer book it shows a part of scripture where St. Pauls tell you not to do this. I don't have it in hand or I would quote it.

Offline Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,290
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Diocese of the South (OCA)
Re: Praying during liturgy?
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2015, 09:37:56 PM »
I think he means personal prayer while the Liturgy is going on. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I can't correct you on what Ai had in mind, I'll wait for him/her. 

I think I understand what you mean by "personal prayer while the Liturgy is going on", but something about this formulation doesn't sit well with me.  Obviously, it is more proper to come to the church on time and participate attentively in the liturgical services by listening carefully to what needs to be listened to, praying what needs to be prayed, singing what needs to be sung, bowing, crossing oneself, etc. than it is to show up whenever and, paying no heed to the service, "doing your own thing". 

At the same time, attentive participation in the liturgical services will naturally bring certain of our needs to mind.  The litanies will remind us of people and needs to pray for, certain hymns or prayers will remind us of these things, maybe even the saint(s) of the day.  If one takes that opportunity to pray a little more fervently for those people and those needs, I don't think that's necessarily the "careless" type of personal prayer, but rather that's the liturgy doing what it's supposed to do: feeding our personal prayer and spiritual life within the Church and enabling us to exercise the priestly ministry that is proper to all the baptised.  There are even some prayers during some services which presuppose we are offering our own prayers privately along with the liturgical prayer that is going on publicly.  To a certain extent, I would say that closing oneself off to this in order to focus on the rites or the words is also a form of "not participating".

Another issue is that phrase itself: "personal prayer".  We mean something rather limited when we use it, but there is a sense in which all prayer, individual or communal, is "personal", because it is carried out by persons and is itself the manifestation of that relationship we have with God by which we are persons.

This is what I was talking about Get thee to the Bishop ASAP (or after you find a bride)!

Offline Bob2

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 201
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: ROCOR
Re: Praying during liturgy?
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2015, 10:17:02 PM »
If you look in the back of the Jordanville prayer book it shows a part of scripture where St. Pauls tell you not to do this. I don't have it in hand or I would quote it.

This is what you are looking for, from the Jordanville Prayer book "How One Should Pray in Church":
Quote
Entering the holy temple and making the sign of the Cross upon oneself thrice, one makes a bow with each, saying:

                        “Thou has created me, O Lord, have mercy on me.”

                        “O God, be merciful to me a sinner.”

                        “Countless times have I sinned, O Lord, forgive me.”

Then, having bowed to the right and the left one stands in one's place and listens to the psalms and prayers read in church, but one does not say to oneself other prayers of one's own choosing nor read them according to books different from the church chanting, for such things the holy Apostle Paul condemns as having forsaken the assembly of the Church (Hebrews 10:25).

That refers to, in my opinion, consciously disregarding the service and just doing your own thing. This is different than doing as Mor describes here:

At the same time, attentive participation in the liturgical services will naturally bring certain of our needs to mind.  The litanies will remind us of people and needs to pray for, certain hymns or prayers will remind us of these things, maybe even the saint(s) of the day.  If one takes that opportunity to pray a little more fervently for those people and those needs, I don't think that's necessarily the "careless" type of personal prayer, but rather that's the liturgy doing what it's supposed to do: feeding our personal prayer and spiritual life within the Church and enabling us to exercise the priestly ministry that is proper to all the baptised.  There are even some prayers during some services which presuppose we are offering our own prayers privately along with the liturgical prayer that is going on publicly.  To a certain extent, I would say that closing oneself off to this in order to focus on the rites or the words is also a form of "not participating".

I have trouble keeping focus when the services, especially Vigils, go on for more than few minutes in Slavonic. The advice my confessor gave me is to either pray the Jesus Prayer, or pray specific needs of family members and those I work with or come into contact with in my everyday life.

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • The Fourteenth Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs
  • Section Moderator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 20,614
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
Re: Praying during liturgy?
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2015, 10:20:38 PM »
Mor, are you cradle?
You already know that Protestants, some, have a spontaneous or extemporaneous prayer life and "feel" it to be the way one prays most all the time. So when one comes into Orthodoxy and finds Prayers for The Sick, and/or someone else's words used in/for every kind of situation then it is normal to wonder 'what is prayer and when do I get to pray for this certain person or  thing"?
Strong emotive response is natural in such. That's all.

Thanks. 
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

Mor no longer posts on OCNet.  He follows threads, posts his responses daily, occasionally starts threads, and responds to private messages when and as he wants.  But he really isn't around anymore.


Offline scamandrius

  • Crusher of Secrets; House Lannister
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,505
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Greek in exile
Re: Praying during liturgy?
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2015, 12:18:02 AM »
As I have been attending Divine Liturgy on Sundays, I find myself praying more often and especially during the liturgy. Not out loud of course, but praying in my head. Does that happen to anyone? One of my friends who became Orthodox told me that it was easier for him to say "Lord have mercy" during the liturgy than it was in his former church.

The Liturgy is prayer so I hope you and everyone else who is Orthodox would be doing this.  That said, I think what you mean is that prayer is easier to engage in, right?
I seek the truth by which no man was ever harmed--Marcus Aurelius

Those who do not read  history are doomed to get their facts from Hollywood--Anonymous

What earthly joy remains untouched by grief?--St. John Damascene

Offline Ai

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 60
Re: Praying during liturgy?
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2015, 05:01:13 PM »
As I have been attending Divine Liturgy on Sundays, I find myself praying more often and especially during the liturgy. Not out loud of course, but praying in my head. Does that happen to anyone? One of my friends who became Orthodox told me that it was easier for him to say "Lord have mercy" during the liturgy than it was in his former church.

The Liturgy is prayer so I hope you and everyone else who is Orthodox would be doing this.  That said, I think what you mean is that prayer is easier to engage in, right?

Yes, this is what I meant. Sorry I didn't express this clearer earlier, I didn't understand. What I meant to express is that over time, prayer becomes something one can focus their heart on, especially paying attention during the liturgy.

(Please excuse me, English isn't my first language so it's hard to express certain ideas)
« Last Edit: March 06, 2015, 05:02:26 PM by Ai »
Lord have mercy.
Glory to Jesus Christ forever.
Most Holy Mother of God, save us!